QOTD Thread II - 420 - Favourite question so far?

[Rehab]

If all the messy things like (military) history and cultural division and, uh, the state of the nation-state could be momentarily ignored, I would on a symbolic level prefer one world government whose mission statement would be to work for the betterment of us all over what we have

I have no illusions, however, that in practice this would solve (all) the divisions, evils and inequalities that we all face, much less that it would be a remotely practical thing to implement (any time soon), realize that it might require a totally different development path to achieve than the one we've had up until now, and have scarcely begun to truly consider the implications of what that would mean for actual relationships between all the entities-previously-known-as-nation-states in a reality like ours (where a lot of various sorts of material power is, to understate/bastardize it, less than evenly distributed across everywhere on the globe) that actually tried it

or really the grand majority of any practical implications of such a thing being extant

I sometimes wonder if this may be a peculiarly Yankee brand of unpatriotism

I like some of what I take it the U.S. aspires to be, am a bit uncomfortable with the rest, do not really care for (a lot of) its history and tend to get annoyed by (a lot of) what it does in practice

I suppose I could still call myself patriotic in the sense that I feel closer to fortunate than unfortunate to have been born here, all options considered, and in that I think there are a lot of cool people here, but I'm not sure I think said cool people are as well spoken for as I'd like

I think the crux of my answer as of this moment is that I don't know whether I'd rather try to help make it a better place to live or just move somewhere else that I'd feel more comfortable in (cowardly as it is)

(probably a not-negative patriotism score, tops)

Edited June 30, 2014 by Rehab

[Esau of Isaac]

I wouldn't call myself overly patriotic, but I definitely would like to make my country the very best on the planet in as many ways as possible. In that sense I do try to represent my country well when speaking to others.

[spoiler=weeeeeaaabbooooooooo]

i still don't get it

I know he already explained it but it makes more sense with visuals. The word for kamikaze in Japanese makes use of two kanji:

神 = God/s, divinity
風 = Wind

Makaze's name makes use of two kanji as well:

魔 = Demon/s, evil
風 = Wind

Fun fact (maybe) familiar names like Akuma or words like mahou, remember those? The "ma" in those words is the same used here.

If kamikaze represents the deity, self-sacrifice, and loyalty, then makaze represents the accuser, self-fulfillment and independence.

It doesn't really. The word's popular usage originates from a series of typhoons that repelled a mongol invasion. While it was used in World War II to refer to pilots that committed suicide, the word was not specifically attached to them. Pilots of units which made suicide attacks on Allied assets were referred to instead using the on'yomi of those kanjji, that is, the Chinese pronunciation of the symbols. Shinpuu, in this case. A more apt rendition of your name in such a fashion would be "Mafuu," or some such.

In any event, kamikaze doesn't refer to loyalty or self-sacrifice, if anything these values could stem from traditional samurai code of honor. Makaze itself would refer to something more like a massive natural disaster. If "kami" were to refer to a blessing, then the "ma" here would be more a curse or unlucky event.

Also, kami are not referred to as gods or deities in the traditional western sense. It would be more apt to think of them as spirits of a sort. Whatever the case, Japanese don't tend to revere kami in much the same way that religious folks do here in the west. You could say that many of the temples still used today are maintained out of a sense of tradition than any true form of spirituality. That is, though students will often donate money to shrines and write wishes on ema (those wooden blocks they hang), the vast majority of them don't vest any deep belief in the existence of these creatures.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Makaze]

Maybe not, but your other replies seem to be provoking these kinds of reactions. I think you dont initially post to shit disturb but when you get a reply from someone like Parrhesia or Integ, you go in Edgy Makaze Mode and try to goad them.

Not denying that (...also I just explicitly said I was doing that, lol).

What do think Edgey Makaze Mode will go for on the market?

[Freohr Datia]

Since I assume people don't want to read anymore of this off to spoiler mode I gooo~ (oh and after a refresh it also looks like people don't want to read anymore of this~

Also I had to make the quotes black myself otherwise it was to leave the spoiler in default font and I don't want that it looked weird ;n;

The text in the quote header or whatever it's called is still being weird though

[spoiler=So let me get this straight...]

However, there are some people who openly mock my neutral or even well-meaning posts and explicitly refuse to discuss the problem beyond mocking me further. Their entire intent in posting is to mock me. If I submit, they will not change their behavior. If I rebel, they will not change their behavior. They will continue to mock because there are people who will laugh with them. Parrhesia is one of these people.

You're making assumptions about people that you don't fully know because what you've often seen out of them supports rather than proves this theory

My solace in dealing with these people whose only influence is negative is to exploit the negativity they bring to the table. Instead of getting depressed (which did happen initially), I make light of it. Thus, my posts after my initial answer to the question are intentionally provoking, simply for lack of a better course of action. There is no hope of reconciling while they continue to refuse to talk things through.

Based on this assumption you decide the only way for you to make yourself feel better about everything is to make others look even worse than they may actually be by baiting them on. You make yourself look like you're trying just as hard as you think they are. This makes you look like a hypocrite and as tryhard I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry kelsper as they are.

My replies after my initial answer, in other words my replies to posts mocking me for nothing, are intentionally abrasive. Slight difference: My public image is less important to me than managing the immediate problem.

And you don't care that what you look hypocritical and even wrong just as long as you get to bring others down with you

I rarely (read: not in recorded memory on SF) intentionally provoke people without being provoked myself.

Well let me tell you this now, you may not see it but there are many many people that see your posts as looking offensive or edgy or questionable, the reason they get on your case is because of this. And you know what makes them get worse? You egging them on and on. You think you're making light of the situation; you're also digging your own grave, it's the cause of them seeing you so badly. If you could just explain yourself without provoking them the situation could probably be so much better than it is now. (Or - unfortunately this can't be helped as much because everybody has different opinions - if you could explain yourself without looking as offensive/edgy/questionable, or maybe even try taking their viewpoints into consideration when explaining to make the conversation go a bit more smoothly)

This wouldn't be a lot of effort for you, right? I believe you've said you believe in making 100% effort and any less is worthless? I think it'd help a lot to try picking up this method and make more effort than you have been to make things go more smoothly rather than blow it all up into a huge shitstorm.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Freohr Datia

[Makaze]

It doesn't really. The word's popular usage originates from a series of typhoons that repelled a mongol invasion. While it was used in World War II to refer to pilots that committed suicide, the word was not specifically attached to them. Pilots of units which made suicide attacks on Allied assets were referred to instead using the on'yomi of those kanjji, that is, the Chinese pronunciation of the symbols. Shinpuu, in this case. A more apt rendition of your name in such a fashion would be "Mafuu," or some such.

In any event, kamikaze doesn't refer to loyalty or self-sacrifice, if anything these values could stem from traditional samurai code of honor. Makaze itself would refer to something more like a massive natural disaster. If "kami" were to refer to a blessing, then the "ma" here would be more a curse or unlucky event.

Hmm. I've mostly heard kamikaze used as a word for a suicide mission, but in retrospect that's probably just in the West.

Either way, that's why I chose it initially. I kept it for a lot of reasons... So that being less grounded doesn't bother me so much. Ma has a lot of meanings depending on the kanji used.

[Tryhard]

This makes you look like a hypocrite and as tryhard I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry kelsper as they are.

wow 0/10

Edited June 30, 2014 by Tryhard

[NinjaMonkey]

I am, except when it comes to football.

[Makaze]

You're making assumptions about people that you don't fully know because what you've often seen out of them supports rather than proves this theory

I'm not making assumptions about this particular point. I have outright requested ways to make amends and they have been outright refused. I made sure there was no misunderstanding. Parrhesia refused to reconcile when asked to reconcile. I suppose I am assuming past that but I'm not using circumstantial evidence; it is, or was, an explicit grudge from his end.

Based on this assumption you decide the only way for you to make yourself feel better about everything is to make others look even worse than they may actually be by baiting them on. You make yourself look like you're trying just as hard as you think they are. This makes you look like a hypocrite and as tryhard I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry kelsper as they are.

I think there is a fundamental difference between initiating conflict and engaging in it after the fact but point taken about the hypocrisy.

And you don't care that what you look hypocritical and even wrong just as long as you get to bring others down with you

I wouldn't say my motivation is to bring them down. Lowering my stress level was the goal.

Well let me tell you this now, you may not see it but there are many many people that see your posts as looking offensive or edgy or questionable, the reason they get on your case is because of this. And you know what makes them get worse? You egging them on and on. You think you're making light of the situation; you're also digging your own grave, it's the cause of them seeing you so badly. If you could just explain yourself without provoking them the situation could probably be so much better than it is now. (Or - unfortunately this can't be helped as much because everybody has different opinions - if you could explain yourself without looking as offensive/edgy/questionable, or maybe even try taking their viewpoints into consideration when explaining to make the conversation go a bit more smoothly)

This wouldn't be a lot of effort for you, right? I believe you've said you believe in making 100% effort and any less is worthless? I think it'd help a lot to try picking up this method and make more effort than you have been to make things go more smoothly rather than blow it all up into a huge shitstorm.

I am willing to consider doing that. Parrhesia seems open to it, which is new. Here's hoping.

[Ansem]

USA is the best country and if you do not agree you're a terrorist and you're about to get #droned

[Ansem]

but in all seriousness i do like america the history is pretty cool.

[euklyd]

this is the best parrhesia post though

I forgot about that one that is pretty perf. Thank you for reminding me.

as a serious post:

patriotism and nationalism are related, and similar, but are not synonyms.

'patriots' are usually people like me--who love their country and feel fortunate to live in it

'nationalists' are usually people who feel that their nation is better than another's or everyone else's

'jingoists' are more closely related to nationalists, but are very much so war hawks. i think an ample example, if my memory isn't mistaken, would be the spanish-american war in 1898.

This is what I'm going for when I say I am a patriot.

[Makaze]

Back on the topic (for me):

As for the actual culture of my country, I'm not overly fond of the mindsets of the people around me (generally speaking). I would love to travel, but I can't say I like any particular place more than here because I haven't been there. I think I may feel more happy to be where I am in another place but I am not sure what place that would be.

So no to both definitions after all.

[Moira]

I'm pretty sure you guys are so stuck up in what you believe about the other people that you see things that aren't really there in the posts. I think we would all be happy if we stopped assuming there was some hidden and sinister ulterior motive behind every post, and just take them at face value and move on. You could either talk about it or not talk about it, but you always seem stuck halfway and never accomplish anything with what you say.

as for the question, I'm glad I live where I do, but I'd be equally as glad in a lot of other places. I don't really feel a special attachment to the country I live in so I guess I wouldn't be patriotic, but I don't dislike it.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Since I assume people don't want to read anymore of this off to spoiler mode I gooo~ (oh and after a refresh it also looks like people don't want to read anymore of this~

Also I had to make the quotes black myself otherwise it was to leave the spoiler in default font and I don't want that it looked weird ;n;

The text in the quote header or whatever it's called is still being weird though

[spoiler=So let me get this straight...]

You're making assumptions about people that you don't fully know because what you've often seen out of them supports rather than proves this theory

Based on this assumption you decide the only way for you to make yourself feel better about everything is to make others look even worse than they may actually be by baiting them on. You make yourself look like you're trying just as hard as you think they are. This makes you look like a hypocrite and as tryhard I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry kelsper as they are.

And you don't care that what you look hypocritical and even wrong just as long as you get to bring others down with you

Well let me tell you this now, you may not see it but there are many many people that see your posts as looking offensive or edgy or questionable, the reason they get on your case is because of this. And you know what makes them get worse? You egging them on and on. You think you're making light of the situation; you're also digging your own grave, it's the cause of them seeing you so badly. If you could just explain yourself without provoking them the situation could probably be so much better than it is now. (Or - unfortunately this can't be helped as much because everybody has different opinions - if you could explain yourself without looking as offensive/edgy/questionable, or maybe even try taking their viewpoints into consideration when explaining to make the conversation go a bit more smoothly)

This wouldn't be a lot of effort for you, right? I believe you've said you believe in making 100% effort and any less is worthless? I think it'd help a lot to try picking up this method and make more effort than you have been to make things go more smoothly rather than blow it all up into a huge shitstorm.

ilu Freohr.

I'm pretty sure you guys are so stuck up in what you believe about the other people that you see things that aren't really there in the posts. I think we would all be happy if we stopped assuming there was some hidden and sinister ulterior motive behind every post, and just take them at face value and move on. You could either talk about it or not talk about it, but you always seem stuck halfway and never accomplish anything with what you say.

Pretty sure your peanut gallery is unwanted. But either way, you are incorrect and need to pay attention. Otherwise you sound like a pointless white knight for those who dont deserve white knighting. In other words, go and stay go.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson

[Makaze]

I'm pretty sure you guys are so stuck up in what you believe about the other people that you see things that aren't really there in the posts. I think we would all be happy if we stopped assuming there was some hidden and sinister ulterior motive behind every post, and just take them at face value and move on. You could either talk about it or not talk about it, but you always seem stuck halfway and never accomplish anything with what you say.

as for the question, I'm glad I live where I do, but I'd be equally as glad in a lot of other places. I don't really feel a special attachment to the country I live in so I guess I wouldn't be patriotic, but I don't dislike it.

Ssssh. They were 80% right this time, like last time.

[Moira]

ilu Freohr.

Pretty sure your peanut gallery is unwanted. But either way, you are incorrect and need to pay attention. Otherwise you sound like a pointless white knight for those who dont deserve white knighting. In other words, go and stay go.

I don't care if it's unwanted. I'm pretty sure it's unwanted to have page upon page of this bickering back and forth.I'm saying that their initial intentions are fine and then it degenerates into a mess. I don't care who's "correct" either, because I don't think anyone can be. You can all be assholes to each other but you have to play this obnoxious game back and forth with each other all the time. Sorry if it's a "peanut gallery" but there are other people here who can read this stuff. It's obviously meant to be public otherwise they'd do this in pm.

[Makaze]

I think what Fluorspar is trying to say is that we should get a room.

[Freohr Datia]

ilu Freohr.

Pretty sure your peanut gallery is unwanted. But either way, you are incorrect and need to pay attention. Otherwise you sound like a pointless white knight for those who dont deserve white knighting. In other words, go and stay go.

W-well thank you

B-but... tbh, though, you seem like you really are doing just what he's suggesting though... Makaze explained what he was doing and your only response was "I don't believe you," but you don't really know whether he's lying or not (or whether he's maybe even deluding himself into the wrong belief or not). The best thing (imo, at least) to do is to consider "what if they're right," maybe also without ignoring the fact that they could be wrong. If what they're doing still seems wrong to you despite what they said then you should probably instead think to yourself "even if what they're saying is true what is it that still makes it look/feel wrong?" then address that point. That's really a good way to get people to listen to you too, is to not completely toss their belief aside because it's assuming too much to say otherwise.

I just want things to quit blowing up into a huge argument with everybody trying to make the other look bad, so since it seems like maybe they'll work on it now I really hope that that improves things...

Oh..... I'm sorry. I'll quit discussing this now. (W-well I was planning on it anyway since it looked like it was getting settled but now I really will make sure I stop)

Edited June 30, 2014 by Freohr Datia

[Tryhard]

imo shit topic right now

[Moira]

I think what Fluorspar is trying to say is that we should get a room.

[Esau of Isaac]

Hmm. I've mostly heard kamikaze used as a word for a suicide mission, but in retrospect that's probably just in the West.

Either way, that's why I chose it initially. I kept it for a lot of reasons... So that being less grounded doesn't bother me so much. Ma has a lot of meanings depending on the kanji used.

Kamikaze used as such is generally a western usage, yeah.

And "ma" has a lot of meanings depending on what word it is used in. But it does carry a negative connotation, and "makaze" wouldn't be used in a positive way.

Also I edited in a thing about kami earlier, not sure if you saw it. o__o

Edited June 30, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Makaze]

Kamikaze used as such is generally a western usage, yeah.

And "ma" has a lot of meanings depending on what word it is used in. But it does carry a negative connotation, and "makaze" wouldn't be used in a positive way.

Also I edited in a thing about kami earlier, not sure if you saw it. o__o

I saw it. Thanks for the info.

One of the usages I liked for 'makaze' was a pun on 間 (negative space). How would you interpret it with that kanji?

[peener weener]

i dunno, i've heard so many different definitions of patriotism (and the official definitions seem to be very open for interpretation) that i'd just rather not classify myself either way. i feel some amount of attachment to my country and on a larger level to latin america but i am not a fervent fanatic.

Edited June 30, 2014 by fuccboi

[Thor Odinson]

I prefer making casual freedom eagle jokes instead

[Parrhesia]

th- those are jokes?!

everything i've been told is a lie