I Can't Believe It's not SFMM4! - Game Over

[eclipse]

Iris - if you could say WHY in regards to Euklyd/Elieson in under 30 minutes, that would be welcome. I'll type my own up shortly.

[Iris]

I have like 5 or 10 (MAYBE 15) minutes what's going on?

Just skim read really quickly. Shit went down.

Phoenix did claim though, 1x Omniguard, although some of us are skeptical.

eclipse has some day role that can end today's phase so I'm not sure if we need to decide a lynch or not if she's using it

[euklyd]

I see Phoenix omniguard, and I doubt anyone has cc'd because votes.

Phoenix isn't happening, looks like.

What is this thing eclipse is holding over our heads?

[eclipse]

How the hell did I miss Elieson in that list? He's under Probably Not.

Ahem. . .

Still null on FFM/Poly, but if things go as planned, I should be able to prod them come D2 (though in Poly's case, he might benefit from a vig shot due to his announced absence during D2). I'm not sure if bearclaw/Eurykins are back at full (in the latter, it's a matter of "enough to type", and RL stuff will affect my read), and would appreciate it if Shinori doesn't flake ever. My read on Darros will depend on whether or not he can let go of 2009 meta come D2 (when there WILL be more to discuss); right now, he's null. Euklyd sounds like he's half-here, which doesn't make me feel any better about him (but I should be able to do something about that D2). Can't really care enough about the rest of you guys to say stuff ATM; may change my mind in a bit.

Wen needs to either exist or be force-subbed. I don't care which one happens.

[Refa]

Guess I'd better clarify my Eurykins thing. I keep forgetting that everyone else isn't a mind reader.

-Basically she does a chainsaw defense on my vote on Phoenix (by attacking my play over the vote), which isn't necessarily scummy unless Phoenix flips scum.

-Reducing Omniguard's utility to a Doc/Protection is blatant ignorance, and even so there's a reason games don't feature 1-shot Docs and it's because they're weak.

-States Phoenix has been pretty scummy, but the role could potentially be town so we shouldn't vote him which just reads as scum trying to distance without getting a D1 scum lynch.

-Also lol at the "Town!Phoenix is just making a partial claim!" because I can't see what else he could possibly claim that would make scum want to kill him more.

[eclipse]

Oh, right, Phoenix. Still don't like how he's waiting in the wings, despite his claim. Dude, say something.

[charlie_]

VOTALS

FFM (4) - Polydeuces, Eurykins, Darros, Elieson
Phoenix (3) - Euklyd, Refa, Iris

Iris (2) - eclipse, Green Poet

Polydeuces (2) - Bearclaw, Shinori

Bearclaw (1) - FFM

Not Voting (3) - Kopfjager, Junko, Phoenix

With 15 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch at deadline and 8 votes to hammer. You have 30 minutes left.

[Iris]

Iris - if you could say WHY in regards to Euklyd/Elieson in under 30 minutes, that would be welcome. I'll type my own up shortly.

Obviously I'm most comfortable with Phoenix going down, and then Poly. The last 2 hours of discussion has been helpful, though, in giving me more town reads at least, which is pretty damn helpful.

re: elieson

Everyone will kill me, but it's just my gut (from earlier reads)/I don't like how he related

re: euklyd

Actually the weird thing about Eukyld is that he has the same reads as GP, but that means nothing about my read on him. I just feel like if he was town he would be more proactive about scumhunting, since all he really did wrt content is post this giant wall post of reads, but he hasn't really brought upon questioning/hunting. Although he is voting for Phoenix, so I give him that.

I honestly can't remember much about everyone else, which makes them null. I do feel way better about Refa, though. And going to echo this for a third time, Wen needs to be modsubbed, whether town or scum.

[Refa]

I wouldn't mind seeing a claim from Iris. The reason I haven't responded to your questions is because my role PM is honestly quite odd, it says "you're the town miller governor, except you're none of these things anymore". I wasn't sure how to answer without saying what appeared to be random.

Also best scum slip ever.

[charlie_]

Wen did say he was going to be away today, so his situation will have to wait until day 2.

[Eurykins]

Guess I'd better clarify my Eurykins thing. I keep forgetting that everyone else isn't a mind reader.

-Basically she does a chainsaw defense on my vote on Phoenix (by attacking my play over the vote), which isn't necessarily scummy unless Phoenix flips scum.

-Reducing Omniguard's utility to a Doc/Protection is blatant ignorance, and even so there's a reason games don't feature 1-shot Docs and it's because they're weak.

-States Phoenix has been pretty scummy, but the role could potentially be town so we shouldn't vote him which just reads as scum trying to distance without getting a D1 scum lynch.

-Also lol at the "Town!Phoenix is just making a partial claim!" because I can't see what else he could possibly claim that would make scum want to kill him more.

Bolded: One Shot Mafia, bro. Was a one-shot Jailkeeper; I don't see the issue with one-shot omniprotection.

Italicized: Excuse me if I'd rather not continue to bulldoze someone who claims a type of protection role instantaneously; I figured it was pretty obvious that it could inflict some damage in terms of town power roles if we ended up losing it. Pardon me for being concerned for town's well-being.

Underlined: I can. Seen JoAT's with Vig shots, Role blocks, scans, etc. Pretty sure all of the above + the doc role would paint an even larger bulls-eye on Phoenix (and of those, I believe that doc would be the strongest role to claim if a town JoAT had to, because it also gives the town more reason to warrant thought/priorities, as opposed to something like role blocker or watcher [which can just as easily be either or]).

[euklyd]

Wagons are FFM and Phoenix?

I'm not interested in a universal loss, and I havetwo minutes or less

[Refa]

eclipse, can your role prevent universal loss on the assumption that we don't reach a hammer?

[eclipse]

I intend on using my role to prevent a universal loss; furthermore, NOT using it is no longer an option.

[euklyd]

##unvote

##vote FFM

I'd rather lose an unknown than an omniguard, and it sounds like eclipse has a plan anyways

[Iris]

Also best scum slip ever.

> "town"

"none of these things"

Brilliant, Refa.

Too bad I don't believe in flavor!scum hunting, but it's interesting nonetheless.

stuff eury said

False. If a town JoAT claimed Doctor, obviously the real Doctor would CC which would suck for obvious reasons.

I don't like that Eury is hardcore defending Phoenix, but if Phoenix does flip scum, I don't know if she'd be noob enough to defend a buddy that hard.

[Elieson]

Thanks for forgetting about me eclipse :(

Refa, I guess ill take a closer look at you later. If Eury was exaggerating that case, it could mean something.

I'm not liking refas dismissal of Phnxs claim, as there is no reason to assume that a protective role is scum...he's pushing the jack thing pretty seriously, and it's like he's trying to make phnx look bad on rolespec, when rolespec should have nothing to do with cases right now.

I'm pissed that we are apparently coming out of the day with no knowledge other than cliipsies role, unless ppl want to actually accomplish something today.

[eclipse]

Clipsey role incoming.

[Green Poet]

Hold on clipsey, posting listpost

[Elieson]

Clipsey top three lynch candidates, now

[Eurykins]

False. If a town JoAT claimed Doctor, obviously the real Doctor would CC which would suck for obvious reasons.

I don't like that Eury is hardcore defending Phoenix, but if Phoenix does flip scum, I don't know if she'd be noob enough to defend a buddy that hard.

1. This is assuming we even have a doctor. Not all games have one in them.

2. I'm not hardcore defending anyone- I'm tearing down the stupid logic people are recklessly throwing up in the thread. There's a difference. There's such a narrow-sighted case regarding the claim (amongst other things) that truly bothers me.

Refa has been irking me all game with "Meta this, meta that", and all in all, hasn't been putting much thought into his reads aside from that. He also seems unnaturally keen on lynching a potential target role when I've known Refa to be the type to check/double-check and/or doubt when claims happen. Whether it's due to Phoenix's sheer bad gameplay the entire day phase or something else, I have a lot of doubts wrt what I've been seeing from him (Refa) and his posts.

[Green Poet]

Listpost as per eclipse's request, as well as because it's likely I'll be killed tonight

Leaning scum on Darros, as I explained earlier. Tunneling FFM, continues to justify it with questionable reasoning, references people like Elie and Wen without giving any clear reads on them

Leaning scum on Iris. I wondered for some time if Elieson and Iris' argumentation at the beginning of the phase was choreographed in scumchat, though their interactions now feel more organic

Null on Elie, slightly leaning scum, for reasons posted earlier

Null on Eury, slightly leaning town. I didn't really like how she focused so exclusively on FFM ED1, but her listpost (which I've admittedly only skimmed so far) seems legit enough. My willingness to lynch Poly doesn't stem from him being one of my primary scumreads, and I suppose it's to her merit that Eury picked up on this? She may be giving me too much credit in thinking that all of my reads are necessarily well-enforced, but yes, I can see how one might say my play here contradicts my tendencies exhibited in P3

eclipse seems pretty obvtown to me right now; if she were scum and could decide the day's lynch (which is what I'm assuming she can do based on what's been said so far) she'd probably come up with a falsified, comprehensive scumread on Iris and just end it there. That she's asking for associative reads despite having this role seems like a towntell to me

Would like to say that I'm still leaning town on Refa (not for any meta-related reasons this time) but I need to look more closely to determine exactly why I'm getting this vibe

Alright, that's out of the way; ready for clipsey's phase bombing

[Refa]

I'm not pushing Phoenix on rolespec, rather the opposite. I'm saying I don't get why his role makes him town.

(also that flavorspec thing was a joke lol)

[eclipse]

Geez, Elieson, would it hurt to read backwards a little?

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47396&view=findpost&p=3065889

I am a one-shot lynch redirect with a cute little troll twist, and I am NOT feeling a FFM lynch - I intend on making him dance tomorrow, along with Euklyd (and maybe Refa, depending on how this goes). 'sides, screw Rein - governors were so SFMM.

##Turbolynch: Phoenix

[charlie_]

HAMMER SHUT UP