Yume Nikki Mafia - Day 3

[Mitsuki]

I don't see why people think that I'm not going to be here and do stuff. When I went back home D2 had already ended and D3 begun a while after I went to sleep.

I have no idea on what are the role shenanigans that make Kay a suspect. However, this post makes me think she's scum. It looks like scum knowing they've been caught and thinking that their only way out of the situation is a 1vs1 against the person who's got results on them. There's no confidence in the vote, and I think that town would either give a confident (as usual) vote if they thought those role shenanigans are a fake or try to discuss what they've done if they think that those results are real but interpreted the wrong way.

I don't like her first D3 vote on Shinori either. Why would town prodvote someone this late in the game? It looks like scum not knowing where to place their vote. I don't think Shinori's the player who needs to elaborate on content the most as well.

Also, her last post is terrible, in a scummy way. Why Shinori and not Marth if her vote was changed, shouldn't Marth be the scummiest? Also that's not a real defense, it's just spreading suspicion on another player to avoid being noticed. The fact that her Shinori suspicion is just based on prodding him for content makes it worse.

Now that I'm here, players who are here as well and waiting for me to answer stuff they've brought up should say they're here. That way I'll answer to what they've said first.

[Bluedoom]

Ok, Mitsuki posted, and scorri's gonna be inactive so I'm just going to out the whole thing so you nitwits actually understand where I'm coming from. If Kay's scum, then the mafia know what's up, I only with held this so I could see how people would react to it. Now,

N2 I had a self-watch shot which I used because I obviously thought I was the mafia's prime target after making the vigshot, becoming more townie in people's eyes, and getting Randa lynched. My reports are that Shinori and Kay targeted me, and gut said that one of them was scum(so you can guess what the other would be if I'm still alive). So I made passive-aggressive, indirect actions to see if one of them would slip. Shinori's cleared because if he was scum I wouldn't be alive(Kay has already claimed a role that wouldn't have allowed me to get results and we know this isn't true. So she couldn't have protected me from Scumnori) but the reverse is becoming quite obvious now. Also Shinori is crumbing so much that honestly it should be obvious.

I don't care about letting this out in the open because the mafia will be three down with this D phase, and they need to deal with Boron, Shinori and I PLUS players like Shin and Poly who've become so obvtown it isn't even funny. AND there's a chance that Shinori can still live if Boron has another shot(don't claim that)/ I target scum properly. So really hold your horses and try figuring out the last scum or something(or the last two. 5 man team with no third in 16 p game can be expected)

[Mitsuki]

I'm assuming this game's scumteam is composed of 4 players given that Randa cited two people as his remaining scumbuddies. Still, I don't know who the 4th scum member would be.

I don't think Poly is scum because of how Refa was pushing him. It's entirely different from his Randa suspicion, you can see that Refa really wanted to get Poly lynched (a good example is this post near D1 deadline) and tried to do stuff to achieve so, while his Randa suspicion was simply there in spite of him being his "second strongest scumread".

I don't think Eury is scum either. Again, interactions with Refa. I don't think Refa's scumbuddy would tell them to selfvote like she did (here), and I'm quite sure it's not WIFOM because it was one minute before the deadline and everyone was stressed back then. Moreover, I don't think scum would think about WIFOMing everyone at that precise moment.

Also I agree on Msrth being town, he's given me town vibes for a while (which I've tried to ignore this game, since wrong gut townreads have messed up my reads many games before) and I don't think scum would bring up those role shenanigans to get a lynch on town, nor it looks like a bus.

@Marth: I don't really feel like answering to your suspicion on me. Do you want me to reply anyways, or do you prefer me to focus on posting new content and judge from that?

[Elieson]

Ok doing wagon analysis, and Elieson's starting to ping me again.

Bolded: Why did you have a confused read on Refa? No where earlier in the phase did you even discuss your thoughts on Refa. Or even on Scarlet for that matter. In fact was Scarlet's Shinori vote SO bad that he became a better lynch than Poly, who had been waffling on his read of you and I, whose logic wrt thatgg was bad? You even agreed with Shinori's point on Poly in one of your posts, where you said

Is this what you mean? I had a "confused" read on Refa, meaning that I couldn't place him as town or scum. After the crazy discussion and phase end impending, I felt like Scarlet's reactions to the sudden pressure were pretty poor, and his shinori suspicion just seemed extremely unwarranted at the time. Yea yea hindsight and all, but I had no feeling one way or another wrt Refa. At least with Scarlet, there was something I didn't like about his play.

Also, shinori made a good point v Poly. I didn't say, nor did I imply, that his callout on Poly was related to a scumread. I thought it was more something like "Hey, he's right, Poly is doing something "horribly out of place and weak", so it's worth taking notice as weird behavior. Out of the three wagoneers for D1, I thought Scarlet was more scummy due to reactions to pressure, versus Poly, who was both reading a super-slight lean of scummy and not there to react to pressure.

Unless you think I intentionally didn't vote for Refa because you think I'm his buddy and I wanted to save his skin.

[Elieson]

WRT My Eury Vote:

Refa backed off of his own case way too easily for my tastes

Also, that sheep at the end looked bad because there was barely anything on Randa at the time.

Her threats to vote for Refa just don't seem like typical Eury play. I've only noticed this of her, to be almost cocky with her vote, when she's relatively confident of something, and/or having something solid to back up her vote. This is like D3-4 behavior from her, on D1. Meta sucks yea, but it just read as scummy to be, because even if it wasn't a meta read, it's still a pointless interaction that feigns the interest of scumhunting, rather than simply voting.

My vote on Eury was mainly due to a combination of those, combined with the Refa flip. TBH I probably wouldn't have been confident in my read for the latter had Refa flipped town. BUT HE DIDN'T, so yea. My gut tells me that what Mit said is correct, about there being 4 scum, because Randa probably wouldn't have arbitrarily listed a specific amount of other teammates unless he had some reason to, and I assume that his reason to do so came from actually having 2 living buddies.

[Elieson]

I also dunno why that second quoteblock is in my Marth-response post. I misclicked Multiquote and thought I deleted it, derp

[Elieson]

~~~Town

- Elieson

- bearclaw13 eclipse

- Bluedoom

~~Leaning Town

- Shin

- Polydeuces

~~~Null

- Sangyul

- Shinori

- scorri

~~~Leaning Scum

- Mitsuki

- Scarlet FFM

- Eurykins

~~~Pretty Confident about being Scum

- Kay

I hate having to post these things, but with my activity for the next day being probably minimal (CEO is appearing in about half an hour, and I'm busy as hell tonight), I want my thoughts out there for the masses. For the record, I think her place in her Scarlet posts during late D1 read as forced, and her unvote-vote to Shin seemed super out-of-place. Still haven't been able to let that go. I'd have loved to see her post some more during D2, but I guess Marth got triggerhappy with his vote and didn't want people to talk or something I've also noticed a trend that usually the first people to bring up cases involving numbers are scum, and while it's not a legit reason to actually find Mit scummy, it's just something that I don't think is making her appear any more townie. Sure, I agree with the point, but that doesn't mean I necessarily think Mit's town for saying it.

[Elieson]

Super Five Combo Post Streak Go!

I really don't see how Shinori's town at this point. Even on merit of Marth's role, I don't think we can know anything for sure until we see a flip based on this heavily-role related case. Shinori reads as forgettable to me, and since I don't have results of a role to go by, that's the foundation of my thoughts.

[Mitsuki]

Okay, I'll reply to new stuff.

If you guys want me to reply to something old just tell me.

For the record, I think her place in her Scarlet posts during late D1 read as forced, and her unvote-vote to Shin seemed super out-of-place. Still haven't been able to let that go. I'd have loved to see her post some more during D2, but I guess Marth got triggerhappy with his vote and didn't want people to talk or something I've also noticed a trend that usually the first people to bring up cases involving numbers are scum, and while it's not a legit reason to actually find Mit scummy, it's just something that I don't think is making her appear any more townie. Sure, I agree with the point, but that doesn't mean I necessarily think Mit's town for saying it.

To be honest, it was probably a good thing in terms of activity for me for D2 to end early, since this weekend I've been really busy.

I don't know what to say about my Scarlet suspicion, I just thougt that he was scum so I wanted to point out all the scummy stuff he was doing. I don't see what's supposed to seem forced.

My vote changed from Shin to Scarlet and so on because of several reasons, all of which I stated in the posts I made.

Basically I was confident that both were scum, but I kept changing opinions on which was the best thing to do with my vote.

On numbers: Marth said it was possible for the scumteam to be 5p and I was quite confident it is a 4p scumteam based on what I've said, so I thought about replying. I never included numbers on a case, it was setup speculation.

[Eurykins]

WRT My Eury Vote:

Refa backed off of his own case way too easily for my tastes

Also, that sheep at the end looked bad because there was barely anything on Randa at the time.

Her threats to vote for Refa just don't seem like typical Eury play. I've only noticed this of her, to be almost cocky with her vote, when she's relatively confident of something, and/or having something solid to back up her vote. This is like D3-4 behavior from her, on D1. Meta sucks yea, but it just read as scummy to be, because even if it wasn't a meta read, it's still a pointless interaction that feigns the interest of scumhunting, rather than simply voting.

My vote on Eury was mainly due to a combination of those, combined with the Refa flip. TBH I probably wouldn't have been confident in my read for the latter had Refa flipped town. BUT HE DIDN'T, so yea. My gut tells me that what Mit said is correct, about there being 4 scum, because Randa probably wouldn't have arbitrarily listed a specific amount of other teammates unless he had some reason to, and I assume that his reason to do so came from actually having 2 living buddies.

1. Refa asked me a question/pulled up the point that I was incorrect regarding your SHIN vote, which I refuted and provided quotes to prove otherwise. Unless you're implying that he's to beat the dead horse into oblivion for no reason at all (aside from heavily grasping on me), the whole "Refa backing off on his own case" point is kinda derpy and I'm not sure what your point is in digging that up.

2. Let's see what happened prior to the "threat to vote for Refa" post:

Goddamnit. Time ticking down and we're all running the 5-5-5 shit in votals.

Refa, Myself, Bluedoom, Shinori, Scarlet, Sangyul, Elieson- we're the only ones actively posting at this point. ;/

Refa's obvs not going to vote himself.

Likewise for Scarlet.

We have to compromise somewhere and hope to hit scum. Either that or scum's going to successfully stall us out D1 lynch. Either way, votes need to swap, and fast before we run out of time.

Then vote Polydeuces. ;/

And then my post:

@Refa: True. Or we could vote for you instead. Which could be done, if Shinori, Bluedoom, and I vote swap to you. Very opportunistic though, to tag someone who can't say much atm. (EDIT: With BBM's vote change, he'd need to move back over to you.)

Refa was a wagon at the time, and so was Scarlet and a few others. Easy to see/tell.

He told me instantly to vote for Poly as opposed to the others who were just as liable/viable to getting lynched D1, and, as stated above, that stunk of opportunistic pick because, of the people being put on the chopping block, he was one of the ones not online (and thus could not claim/defend himself in any manner). That, along with the vibes I was getting from him in the past day phase, sat ill with me, and I would've been happy lynching him D1 (and we would've, had not a certain person been unable to post/vote at the time).

Also, wrt to the bolded part: Why would Refa flipping town have made me seem more townie than not (in this case)? I don't understand how me being willing to vote for someone I feel is scum + my gut reads from him being RIGHT in Refa flipping scum = I'm scummy in your eyes? I'd think that, had I done something like go along with the Poly suggestion without a hitch/problem would be more liable for me seeming scummy (for attempting to nail someone who's not even around at the time) than me questioning Refa's suggestion to nail said inactive player [if that were the case, I'd even see it understandable why it could come off as being scummy to others]. I'm not ashamed to say that most of my read on Refa was dependent on gut vibes (as I did in SFMM4), and that my case on him aside from that was whatever I posted in D1. As far as I'm concern, my read was right, and I'd found at least one other scum (the other being Randa) so far this game, amongst others I may already suspect (but don't have confirmed yet).

Once again, I'm feeling like you're grasping really hard Elie, and on really poor points.

Looking back on your posts:

Scarlet is reacting a bit strangely for my tastes, but then again, people are calling me emotional for using the word, bullshit, one time. That Shinori vote was bad though. When Imake votes on ppl because they are here, its stupid early. A reactionary pressure vote at this point with no intent to push it towards a lynch is bad.

##unvote

##vote Scarlet

A lynch is better than a NL at this point. My vote should at least help bring info in.

Italicized part just does nothing as a whole. Secondly, Scarlet already explained the vote on Shinori (since it had no weight/purpose sitting on Poly when he wasn't saying shit all late D1), and otherwise did as much as he could to help secure a lynch D1 (despite it not happening).

Also, the bolded part seems kinda stupid, imo. We were worried about successfully hosting a lynch D1 (having the means to do so), and you're putting a vote down "to help bring info in"? Seems to me that your vote's more there for pressure, not for the intention to lynch-vote. You also don't seemed thrilled/openly supportive of the lynch itself, as all you said is "A lynch is better than NL" (which is true); this makes it seem like you cast a relatively easy vote without really committing to it.

(Also, if I'm not mistaken, I saw you lurking for quite a bit near the end of D1, but you chose not to post/contribute much of anything as time wound down. Lurking scum perhaps?)

sry I fell asleep immediately after making my last post

Good shot Boron. We have a have a Vig and a...whatever Marth is. Cool.

Now that mafia vanilla is a confirmed role, anybody feel like arguing why Shin isn't mafia for just his vanilla claim? EHH BBM??? Though...I guess I feel better about Shin after this Refa flip. I wouldn't have expected Refa push shin so persistantly even when shin wasn't wagon-able

TBH I'm skimming Refa, and will look at things again later on when I'm feeling a bit more rested. However, upon a skim from Refa, something hits me in the gut. I refuse to look into this further until I've cleared my head, but I'm not dismissing a gutread until i can muster up a reason to (2).

##Vote Eurykins

Several issues with this post:

1. I don't get the bolded part. No one said whether he was or wasn't town/mafia due to a null claim like Vanilla.

2. I find the underlined comment a bit odd, given that, even as Refa had a case against Shin, he was never stuck on a Shin vote as you had been late D1, Elie. Until the above post/vote on Scarlet, you had been the person still sitting on Shin for the longest time and had been practically death-tunneling him all game.

3. Second bolded part: Easiest way to drop a vote on someone without having a real case/reason to do so. That kinda sucked in terms of gameplay, Elie. Not gonna lie.

I never had time to clarify my Eury read because poly and Marth are derps. It was based on something that Refa said, which I'll hafta find later on because I'm not at a PC right now.

Okay, you're not on a PC. Work/life happens. However, the bolded part just sounds like poor excuses, and continuously stating "It's based on something that flipped scum said" = easiest excuse/means of justifying a terrible vote you made ED2.

O.....Kay....

The amount of passive-aggressiveness (or in shinoris's case, just Shinoriness) is giving me a headache.

So what? Your comment in itself isn't giving us anything more than insight on head pains. Filler comments/posts too good.

##vote Kay

Right now I don't give a hoot about sheeping; I'll buy marth's thing right now

Laziness 10/10. Also seems kinda non-committal and lack of interest in what you were sheeping, which makes the vote sound even worse. (Also already mentioned before the poor timing of this vote post as well.)

And the rest is history. (Aka. stuff I already commented on) I'm not impressed overall by Elie's gameplay, and his terrible votes/logic behind them is terribly graspy at best.

Not sure what to make of the Marth/Kay exchange, but I can see Marth's logic now in terms of why he's saying what he did. However:

1. Marth could be lying wrt self-watching, if he's buddied with Shinori (Shinori wouldn't say "Oh, no, I wasn't there N2" for obvs reason, and unless someone else can verify that they saw Kay/Shinori elsewhere, it's between Kay's and Marth's words that we're stuck with).

2. Kay could be lying in terms of not visiting Marth, which would question why she was there to begin with.

3. Kay visiting Marth (and Shinori being there as well) somehow doesn't automatically seem to pan out to me as "Doc + Attempted NK happening". Someone else could've RB'd the real NKer, while Kay or Shinori could have been there in terms of watching, scanning, or using some other sort of information role (that wouldn't interfere with Marth's claimed self-watch shot).

4. However, I will say from experience with scans/roleblocks: If Kay is scum, she could've done both in one night (attempt to NK Marth + roleblock/act on Poly), so in that light, she very well could have been in two places at once last night phase (and just so happened to get caught by Marth as a result).

Would like to hear more from Shinori/Kay wrt what happened last night phase.

Imo, Elieson/Kay are tied for the scum reads for me today. However, in a lack of interest in dumping more votes on the Kay wagon, plus all the annoying shizz I had to look through above, my vote will be as such:

##Vote: Elieson

[Shinori]

Not sure what to make of the Marth/Kay exchange, but I can see Marth's logic now in terms of why he's saying what he did. However:

1. Marth could be lying wrt self-watching, if he's buddied with Shinori (Shinori wouldn't say "Oh, no, I wasn't there N2" for obvs reason, and unless someone else can verify that they saw Kay/Shinori elsewhere, it's between Kay's and Marth's words that we're stuck with).

2. Kay could be lying in terms of not visiting Marth, which would question why she was there to begin with.

3. Kay visiting Marth (and Shinori being there as well) somehow doesn't automatically seem to pan out to me as "Doc + Attempted NK happening". Someone else could've RB'd the real NKer, while Kay or Shinori could have been there in terms of watching, scanning, or using some other sort of information role (that wouldn't interfere with Marth's claimed self-watch shot).

4. However, I will say from experience with scans/roleblocks: If Kay is scum, she could've done both in one night (attempt to NK Marth + roleblock/act on Poly), so in that light, she very well could have been in two places at once last night phase (and just so happened to get caught by Marth as a result).

Would like to hear more from Shinori/Kay wrt what happened last night phase.

##Vote: Elieson

1: Do you really think scum would make such a poor trade with 2 already dead?

2: Kay 'could' be lying? Either she's lying or Marth is lying. It's one or the other. Pick a stance.

3: This argument doesn't even matter and you shouldn't even bother speculating why there wasn't a night kill. Because either Marth is lying or Kay is lying in your eyes which means this doesn't matter what so ever CURRENTLY.

[Eurykins]

1: Do you really think scum would make such a poor trade with 2 already dead?

2: Kay 'could' be lying? Either she's lying or Marth is lying. It's one or the other. Pick a stance.

3: This argument doesn't even matter and you shouldn't even bother speculating why there wasn't a night kill. Because either Marth is lying or Kay is lying in your eyes which means this doesn't matter what so ever CURRENTLY.

1. Depends on what sort of game they're playing. Randa obviously gave up. There's no telling what his scumbuddies chose to do as a whole, imo.

2. It's called listing options/thought processes, and as of right now, (even as I find Kay scummier than Marth by a slight margin), I'm not completely sold as to whom I'd rather take a stance with in regards to the claims flying around. Marth claimed a shot on a townie, and has a self-watch built in. It doesn't scream "pro-townie" role to me atm, nor has his gameplay as a whole been stellar either.

3. I actually disagree. If Kay wasn't there to conduct the NK, who was? Just because she visits somewhere doesn't mean she has to have been the one to do so. I see no issue in trying to find out the truth of what happened last night phase CURRENTLY, thank you very much.

[Shinori]

Speculating about what happened last night TONIGHT when we already have a 1 v 1 is just HELPING THE SCUM GET MORE INFO.

Marth says Kay is lying. Kay says she isn't, which means she would have to be saying that Marth is lying. One of them is lying. There is 100% scum between the two of them.

ATTEMPTING to role spec about what happened last night and why there was or wasn't a kill is just helping scum and not helping town. So PLEASE DONT speculate about what happened last night or at least if you are going to speculate about it do it elsewhere.

[Sunwoo]

~~~Null

- Sangyul

Don't pull this shit on me, Elieson. I should've posted enough and claimed to have done enough for you to have a decidedly town or scum read on me right now. And I DEFINITELY shouldn't be in the same category as someone who's literally posted three times in the entire game.

I don't like Elieson's latest posts. Some stuff that he'd already said earlier in the game, like his reaction to Refa's flip in relation to Shin's vanilla claim and then saying he feels Shin is town in the same sentence, struck me as being rather bad. But this phase, it looks like he's throwing out suspicion on whoever he can make it stick on and his most recent post regarding to Shinori looks like he's trying take whatever opportunity he can to smear whoever is smear-able. Reads like scum flailing.

(Also, I'm not in my apartment right now, so I won't be able to respond consistently until I'm back there.)

[Kay]

Someone (idr who) said if I was suggesting Shinori might be scum, I should be voting him over Marth. Shinori hasn't said anything that necessitates a 1vs1 between us, unless I missed something he could be telling the truth. FMPOV Marth is definitely fakeclaiming unless there's a visit faker or something insane.

Also Boron, why was my logic for targeting Poly bad? He has a decent chance of being either VT or scum imo. If he's VT it stops kills on him without the risk of roleblocking a town PR that there would be if I targeted someone else. If he's scum it roleblocks him.

Also does no one else think it's weird that in a game with several vanillas Marth would have both a self-watch and a vig shot?

[Kay]

Eli's null on Boron sucks btw, claiming vigshot on Refa is pretty towny. At least explain the null.

[Elieson]

Don't pull this shit on me, Elieson. I should've posted enough and claimed to have done enough for you to have a decidedly town or scum read on me right now. And I DEFINITELY shouldn't be in the same category as someone who's literally posted three times in the entire game.

Oh my fucking god I'm gonna lose it

I have no reason to believe that you're not an SK claiming Vig right now.

My town read on you is based on the fact that I don't think you're mafia. That's what was going through my head at the time.

I've got no clue about scorri, and Shinori is just forgettable to me. The ONLY reason I'm null on you is because you claimed the shot, and with the incredibly weak flipped mafia at this point, I don't want to discredit you being self-aligned.

and before you say/think it, because i know everyone is going to. I'm not very certain of this. It's just a thought that crossed my mind. I am not ITP hunting. I'd rather hunt for actual mafia than otherwise.

---

I had a massive reply to Eury that I'm working on redoing because I closed out. CEO left so I've got PC access again, so I'll have that up in a minute

[Elieson]

1. Refa asked me a question/pulled up the point that I was incorrect regarding your SHIN vote, which I refuted and provided quotes to prove otherwise. Unless you're implying that he's to beat the dead horse into oblivion for no reason at all (aside from heavily grasping on me), the whole "Refa backing off on his own case" point is kinda derpy and I'm not sure what your point is in digging that up.

It was Refa's Reaction though. He just kinda said "oh, ok" and left it at that. No extra thoughts, no what ifs, just, complacent agreement. That seemed strange to me. It's not just the redaction itself, it's how he did it. With as heated as discussion had been, seeing Refa just go "eh, k" reads as strange behavior.

2. Let's see what happened prior to the "threat to vote for Refa" post:

The thing here is that "Or we could just vote for you" sounds uncharacteristically snide of you. I already said that I think it's a strange meta read, but it's out there. I'm I was gonna say I'm sorry, but I'm actually not looking for links between scum and living players, and trying to interpret them...you know, not just content, but motivation. I've seen you be confident in reads and proclaim yourself as such, but I haven't seen this behavior from you when there's no reason for you to be.

Refa was a wagon at the time, and so was Scarlet and a few others. Easy to see/tell.

He told me instantly to vote for Poly as opposed to the others who were just as liable/viable to getting lynched D1, and, as stated above, that stunk of opportunistic pick because, of the people being put on the chopping block, he was one of the ones not online (and thus could not claim/defend himself in any manner). That, along with the vibes I was getting from him in the past day phase, sat ill with me, and I would've been happy lynching him D1 (and we would've, had not a certain person been unable to post/vote at the time).

That was bad Refa play, and I guess I missed it. Point->Eury

Also, wrt to the bolded part: Why would Refa flipping town have made me seem more townie than not (in this case)? I don't understand how me being willing to vote for someone I feel is scum + my gut reads from him being RIGHT in Refa flipping scum = I'm scummy in your eyes? I'd think that, had I done something like go along with the Poly suggestion without a hitch/problem would be more liable for me seeming scummy (for attempting to nail someone who's not even around at the time) than me questioning Refa's suggestion to nail said inactive player [if that were the case, I'd even see it understandable why it could come off as being scummy to others]. I'm not ashamed to say that most of my read on Refa was dependent on gut vibes (as I did in SFMM4), and that my case on him aside from that was whatever I posted in D1. As far as I'm concern, my read was right, and I'd found at least one other scum (the other being Randa) so far this game, amongst others I may already suspect (but don't have confirmed yet).

I literally can't make sense of this...I've read it like 6 times over....

I think you were in a position to gain town-cred from pushing a lynch on scum!refa?

And wrt This part, I love how my admitted read on you being a gutread is the most horrible thing, but from your pov, you having a gutread is acceptable.

Once again, I'm feeling like you're grasping really hard Elie, and on really poor points.

Among those points, you're calling me out for doing the same stuff that you're doing. That's hypocrisy, if I'm understanding it correctly.

Looking back on your posts:


Italicized part just does nothing as a whole. Secondly, Scarlet already explained the vote on Shinori (since it had no weight/purpose sitting on Poly when he wasn't saying shit all late D1), and otherwise did as much as he could to help secure a lynch D1 (despite it not happening).

Also, the bolded part seems kinda stupid, imo. We were worried about successfully hosting a lynch D1 (having the means to do so), and you're putting a vote down "to help bring info in"? Seems to me that your vote's more there for pressure, not for the intention to lynch-vote. You also don't seemed thrilled/openly supportive of the lynch itself, as all you said is "A lynch is better than NL" (which is true); this makes it seem like you cast a relatively easy vote without really committing to it.

(Also, if I'm not mistaken, I saw you lurking for quite a bit near the end of D1, but you chose not to post/contribute much of anything as time wound down. Lurking scum perhaps?)

I thought Scarlet's vote on Shinori was absolute trash and read to me as not wanting to help bring a lynch on anybody that the consensus found scummy, nor wanting to bring information forward to help town. How do you read his vote on Shinori?

My vote was on the player that I found to be the scummiest of those wagon-able. Nothing more. A player that I hadn't analyzed and was basing reads off of 1/4 of the day's content. Yea, I wasn't too openly thrilled for that lynch. I wasn't comfortable lynching anybody that wasn't Shin at the time either. Would you rather have me kept my vote on my actual scumread? Town needs info, and I wanted info from Scarlet more than anyone else. You understand the ramifications of a NL, so why are you calling my consolidation vote a bad thing?

I already said, I fell asleep after making my last post. My phone was set on the thread when I passed out. If you're seriously digging into this as for a reason for ANYBODY to be scum, much less myself, you're missing a key component of scumhunting tactics.

Several issues with this post:

1. I don't get the bolded part. No one said whether he was or wasn't town/mafia due to a null claim like Vanilla.
2. I find the underlined comment a bit odd, given that, even as Refa had a case against Shin, he was never stuck on a Shin vote as you had been late D1, Elie. Until the above post/vote on Scarlet, you had been the person still sitting on Shin for the longest time and had been practically death-tunneling him all game.
3. Second bolded part: Easiest way to drop a vote on someone without having a real case/reason to do so. That kinda sucked in terms of gameplay, Elie. Not gonna lie.


Okay, you're not on a PC. Work/life happens. However, the bolded part just sounds like poor excuses, and continuously stating "It's based on something that flipped scum said" = easiest excuse/means of justifying a terrible vote you made ED2.

Yea, so? It was a jab at people who might have been thinking like BBM, you know, the guys who said "Oh look, a vanilla claim. Probs not scum gais".

FMPOV, I couldn't see why refa would try to push a lynch on Scum!Shin when there were other possible lynch candidates still up in the air, namely Poly and Scarlet. I think I was wrong about Scum!Shin and see it due to Refa's flip. Why is changing my read due to a legitimate event a bad thing?

Nope. I threw a gutvote on you ED2, with full intention to come back and elaborate on it before the phase ended. Not my fault that people turbo'd Randa, despite an inthread scumclaim. This is why turbo'ing scumclaims is bad, because it minimized conversation and causes shit like this to happen. You know what kinda sucks in terms of gameplay, Eury? Flipping the f*ck out because of one vote. It's stuff like this that makes me think you're scum, because you're coming at me from 12 angles because I didn't provide my case immediately, rather than for my case itself.

And as a scumhunter, I have every right to look at flipped scum's interactions with living players to determine reads and such. I refuse to let you call me out on such a preposterous statement. And the point of Marth and Poly quickhammering mean that many players had things left unsaid. As far as I'm concerned, I agree with eclipse. This is D2, and D2 was just like an extra 1/3 added to D1. I know that's only worth it's weight in bricks and gold, but the fact is still that you're holding another player's turbolynch as evidence for why you think I'm scummy.

So what? Your comment in itself isn't giving us anything more than insight on head pains. Filler comments/posts too good.

Ohhhh nooo I made one filler post. I admit, I made a couple. Oh well. Do you see me dodging conversation and contribution entirely? Are my reads that difficult to figure out?

Laziness 10/10. Also seems kinda non-committal and lack of interest in what you were sheeping, which makes the vote sound even worse. (Also already mentioned before the poor timing of this vote post as well.)

And the rest is history. (Aka. stuff I already commented on) I'm not impressed overall by Elie's gameplay, and his terrible votes/logic behind them is terribly graspy at best.

Eury, did you miss the part where I said that scum!marth would be an idiot to start a 1v1 with 2 scum down at this point in the game? The post that I made 6 minutes later, and one that was made without prod or questioning? I could've cruised under the radar of making lame sheep votes, but I justified myself, and you're either skimming over it, discrediting it, or just flat out ignoring it. Think: Town!Marth v Kay!Scum. Kay flips scum, marth is suddenly obvitown, and worth getting NK'd. Marth not geting NK'd for like 3 phases might imply that maybe he just pulled an awesome gambit of uber-bussing, and faces lynching himself towards game end. The benefits just aren't there. BUT you're out there saying that everything I've done points to 2 scum members being Me + Kay, it sounds, and with such certainty.

[Mitsuki]

PoE says 4th scumteam member is either Elie or Scorri. Interactions with Randa make me think it's Elie after all. Randa kind of defended Elie and Refa (and Kay to an extent) during D1, he didn't give reads on them other than null but he attacked other people's cases on them. I think that's what scum would do when they want to defend their scumbuddies.

Scorri's slot should be modkilled or something, I'm guessing she requested a replacement because it's been 4 days since she last posted.

I agree with Boron, Elieson seems to be trying to spread suspicion, which is what I'd expect scum to do now that two scumteam members are dead and, assuming Kay is scum as well, scum need several mislynches to win. Also, his content has been really weak all game until today.

I don't know how Elie is as town, but Elie is usually so nice, this agressive attitude feels wrong in a scummy way. I've seen really nice people become totally different while being suspected as scum, and if I've ever seen nice people be like that as town I don't recall. I'm inclined to think this is a scumtell, I don't know Elie that much but from the little I've seen I think he's one of the nicest people I know.

Cheers, Elie. Don't let this make you feel angry; after all, it's just a game and the only influence it will have on you is the one you choose to assume.

However, I wouldn't be surpirsed if Scorri was scum instead of Elie, she didn't do much while she was still playing.

[Shin]

Eli's null on Boron sucks btw, claiming vigshot on Refa is pretty towny. At least explain the null.

I agree with this. Nobody's stepped forward to claim the Refa kill, and the town deaths we've seen aren't capable of it. Eli, I'm also questioning the neutrality towards most of the scum we've found so far. You've said very little about Refa or Randa, only listing Randa as a low rank scum read early on. I'm still a little lost in the Marth/Kay situation. For the reasons I've stated before, I feel better about Marth than Kay, so I'd probably settle for a Kay lynch.

Still, I'm not letting her get that close to hammer just yet. Da vote can WAIT.

[Grace]

i'd like to issue a PSA: please keep it more civil in here. yes, I know mafia can be frustrating and what have you, but that's no excuse. I may start giving warnings for it if it continues.

votals will come after my class, in about 2 hours

Edited May 12, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Sunwoo]

Oh my fucking god I'm gonna lose it

I have no reason to believe that you're not an SK claiming Vig right now.

My town read on you is based on the fact that I don't think you're mafia. That's what was going through my head at the time.

I've got no clue about scorri, and Shinori is just forgettable to me. The ONLY reason I'm null on you is because you claimed the shot, and with the incredibly weak flipped mafia at this point, I don't want to discredit you being self-aligned.

and before you say/think it, because i know everyone is going to. I'm not very certain of this. It's just a thought that crossed my mind. I am not ITP hunting. I'd rather hunt for actual mafia than otherwise.

Do you want me to give you a good reasons why you shouldn't believe I'm not an SK claiming vig right now?

Who claimed their vig shot first? Marth or me? I do believe it was Marth. Let's look at a few games where we had either multiple town vigs or someone falsely claiming to be a vig with an actual vig in the game:

Fakeclaim mafia - Objection decided to claim that he was a vig (or dayvig) for absolutely no reason. Marth shot him right there

Inception mafia - Objection and Strege were both town vigs, and Strege was still convinced to vig Objection as a counterclaim

FAYZ mafia - Cam claimed vigilante and SK and scorri immediately counterclaimed him

Xenoblade mafia - Rapier claimed vig and I counterclaimed him

Looking at the examples, it's pretty safe to say that claiming vigilante when you're not is a bad idea as it tends to get you shot or counterclaimed. Sometimes even when you're vig claiming vig if there's another vig around. At the time Marth claimed his shot, I had NO REASON to believe that he couldn't have been a town vig. If I'm really SK, why would I want to draw attention to myself by claiming a shot, EVEN if I hit scum? I didn't claim vig in Touhou mafia as SK, especially with another claimed vig around, did I?

This is exactly what I mean by slinging accusations around and inciting fear within town. Anyone with a brain would know that if all the scum die and yet the game is still going on, there's obviously a third. But why are you even pondering this at a time when there is no proof we even have a third? The moment I see that you actually have me as NULL over anything else I already knew you're going to sling "you could be ITP" at me. That's inciting unnecessary fear. You have no reason to believe I'm ITP at the moment. You have no reason to believe an ITP even exists at the moment.

Yes, scum may be weak but town also seems to have more than a few vanillas, and vigilante is not such an uncommon role that an SK fake claiming vig should be on your mind AT THIS POINT. We even had NO KILLS last night for crying out loud. Also, your reason for putting me in null sucks because in your mind I'm either town or ITP. That's not null. That's closer to "town until proven ITP" or "town, but could be ITP".

It's called fear mongering, dude, and it's absolutely scummy.

[Elieson]

fine. i'm an <derogatory statement/word> for having a single thought come through my mind, that I'm obviously not pressing, but throwing out there nonetheless. I'm probably scum then, so you guys should definitely lynch me tomorrow, because only scum would say when prodded, that he thought one of the claimed Vigshots might not have been town.

Regardless of that, Boron, Marth claimed Jack!Vig+SelfWatch(+?), and you just claimed a Vig shot. If I'm to assume that there's multiple VigShots in this game, then I'm also led to assume that our other Vig, of which I assume is a Full Time vig, would've fired last night. No one died though, and since you didn't claim hooked or anything, it confuses me that there should be 3 possible deaths (2 of which, pointed towards Mafia's factional kill, and what I assumed was yours, Boron). MARTH BEING A JACK WITH A VIG DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE ANYBODY ELSE'S VIG SHOTS MORE TOWN SIMPLY BY EXISTENTIALISM. BUT WHATEVER, BORON IS PROBABLY TOWN, LIKE I SAID, EVEN THOUGH I'M FEARMONGERING BECAUSE I'M THE MOST SCUMMY SCUM SCUM TO EVER SCUM SCUM

THOUGH I'M PROBABLY BEING RASH WITH THAT ASSUMPTION TOO. SILLY ME FOR PUBLICALLY STATING MY THOUGHTS

[Elieson]

A MORE ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT MY SCUMCHART SHOULD BE

~~~Town

- bearclaw13 eclipse

- Bluedoom

~~~Leaning Town

- Sangyul

- Shin

- Polydeuces

~~~Null

- Shinori

- scorri

- Mitsuki

- Scarlet FFM

~~~Leaning Scum

- Eurykins

- Elieson

~~~Pretty Confident about being Scum

- Kay

[Elieson]

WHY CAN'T I PROPERLY FONT COLOR