I still don't get the praise of this game...

[BrightBow]

You know you can touch the skill icons to not what they do? You can touch anything in the game to get information on it. It's the same set up as the way skills are done in Genealogy of Holy War (and personally I don't have much trouble differentiating between the icons. They tend to show what the skill does pretty well from what I can see. The fact that the icon appears when the skill is used helps to embed them).

I do know that there are other things to touch. But you can still check the attributes of your weapons with just the buttons. You can't do that for the enemies but you can see the effect of the weapon they have on their stats. And they will probably only carry one weapon anyway. So it's still the only thing you ever need to touch. Plus, the skill icons are smaller then everything else on the screen.

And you can't compare that with Holy War. They can easily by selected with the gamepad to read the explanation, there are just a few different skills and regular enemies never use any. Except in rare cases a single were they use a single one as a class skill.

(and personally I don't have much trouble differentiating between the icons. They tend to show what the skill does pretty well from what I can see. The fact that the icon appears when the skill is used helps to embed them).

If you didn't know already, what would you guess do these skills do?

One would assume the first one is relate to horses or maybe speed. But as I am sure you know already, that is completely wrong.

What is the big thing that sets all these skills apart? Did we ever associate a stat with a specific color?

Edited June 7, 2014 by BrightBow

[Integrity]

Expecting the player to simply memorize them is absurd. Those are 95 skills. I probably miscounted and forgot to count the Lunatic variations. But point is: There are a lot of them.

You'd have a point if the skill icons were just random shit picked out for each skill, but a lot of them are coded based on what they do and it's ...pretty obvious. It's disingenuous to say THERE ARE NINETY HUNDRED SKILLS when ten (?) of them are the -faire/-breaker templates, which suggest what they do looking at them. Or considering the Stat +2s, which have a little picture of something related to the skill (the only really esoteric ones iirc are skill and avoid) with a little +2 next to it. Or the smaller pairs, like Quick/Slow Burn, Even/Odd Rhythm, Beast/Wyrmbane. Or the Rallies, which all have the same (obvious) icon with different coloring - you know it's a Rally skill, are you seriously tearing your hair out to know JUST WHICH ONE?

EDIT: My point is you only have to memorize like eight or so really random skill pictures, and none of them are (what is that, tantivity?) because at no point in the game does an enemy having Tantivity actually matter.

That's adding onto the point that I never once in the game actually checked enemy skills, and all the skills I put on my units I knew because, well, I put them there. Are you sure the memorization problem isn't just you? It's a pretty brilliant save for screen real estate.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Integrity

[Jotari]

I do know that there are other things to touch. But you can still check the attributes of your weapons with just the buttons. You can't do that for the enemies but you can see the effect of the weapon they have on their stats. And they will probably only carry one weapon anyway. So it's still the only thing you ever need to touch. Plus, the skill icons are smaller then everything else on the screen.

And you can't compare that with Holy War. They can easily by selected with the gamepad to read the explanation, there are just a few different skills and regular enemies never use any. Except in rare cases a single were they use a single one as a class skill.

If you didn't know already, what would you guess does these skills do?

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/054.png / http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/055.png / http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/036.png

What is the big thing that sets all these skills apart? Did we ever associate a color with a specific stat?

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/049.png http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/051.png http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/017.png http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/029.png http://serenesforest.net/fe13/skill/039.png

It's just a different control scheme. You don't have a cursor on the touch screen so selecting them with a button doesn't turn up as an option. And I have not looked up the skill you posted but I at a guess I'd say the first one is outdoor fighter and the second one is rally speed. We never really officially associate colours with stat but for me anyway the selected colour seems perfectly natural. Red is an aggressive colour so it's rally strength. Purple is an unnatural colour so it's rally resistance. The only one that seems strange to me is brown for rally movement. i guess maybe it's meant to be like crossing terrain but it just seems strange. That's only for me though, different people have different perceptions of the meaning in colour but I don't have any problem telling them apart. The fact that enemies only tend to use skills that default to their classes and the class skills for the most part making sense with their class helps a lot too.

Oh and on the note of the pen hand covering the text, wouldn't you touch it with you're right hand? The skill icons are all aligned on the bottom right, I'd image most people would touch it from the right off screen allowing the text to show up uncovered. That's only a guess though since I'm left handed and I don't even bother with the stylus if I want to check something so simple anyway.

Huh odd. Only the first URl on each line that you posted loaded for me for some reason. And turns out I did get it wrong. I looked it up and indeed it is Tantivy. But I would have got slow burn but probably not prescience because, like tantivy it's not one of the better or more worrisome skills in the game (I do recognize the symbol for prescience but not it's name or effect as I think of it as that one skill archers have that is basically useless) . All the ones that I actually care that the enemy has, Counter, Astra, Luna, Aegis, Pavise etc are very easily recognizable.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Jotari

[Baldrick]

One thing I will say about Awakening's stat screens is that they try to fit all the information on both the stat screens, rather than splitting it up into sections like the earlier games do. It saves screen real estate but I don't think that makes it more convenient, and it's not like the space is expensive as actual real estate.

Can you still nagivate them using the control pad, and a button to display information (e.g. the R button in the GBA games)?

[BrightBow]

You'd have a point if the skill icons were just random shit picked out for each skill, but a lot of them are coded based on what they do and it's ...pretty obvious. It's disingenuous to say THERE ARE NINETY HUNDRED SKILLS when ten (?) of them are the -faire/-breaker templates, which suggest what they do looking at them. Or considering the Stat +2s, which have a little picture of something related to the skill (the only really esoteric ones iirc are skill and avoid) with a little +2 next to it. Or the smaller pairs, like Quick/Slow Burn, Even/Odd Rhythm, Beast/Wyrmbane. Or the Rallies, which all have the same (obvious) icon with different coloring - you know it's a Rally skill, are you seriously tearing your hair out to know JUST WHICH ONE?

EDIT: My point is you only have to memorize like eight or so really random skill pictures, and none of them are (what is that, tantivity?) because at no point in the game does an enemy having Tantivity actually matter.

That's adding onto the point that I never once in the game actually checked enemy skills, and all the skills I put on my units I knew because, well, I put them there. Are you sure the memorization problem isn't just you? It's a pretty brilliant save for screen real estate.

Even if we cut out like half of them for stuff like Breaker or whatever, that's still a lot. And as for the rest, it makes little difference if a skill is useless or not because you need to identify it either way to ensure you are not accidentally engage an enemy who can screw you over. It's easy to say that the skills can easily be identified if you already spend hundreds of hours on the game.

It's just a different control scheme. You don't have a cursor on the touch screen so selecting them with a button doesn't turn up as an option. And I have not looked up the skill you posted but I at a guess I'd say the first one is outdoor fighter and the second one is rally speed. We never really officially associate colours with stat but for me anyway the selected colour seems perfectly natural. Red is an aggressive colour so it's rally strength. Purple is an unnatural colour so it's rally resistance. The only one that seems strange to me is brown for rally movement. i guess maybe it's meant to be like crossing terrain but it just seems strange. That's only for me though, different people have different perceptions of the meaning in colour but I don't have any problem telling them apart. The fact that enemies only tend to use skills that default to their classes and the class skills for the most part making sense with their class helps a lot too.

Oh and on the note of the pen hand covering the text, wouldn't you touch it with you're right hand? The skill icons are all aligned on the bottom right, I'd image most people would touch it from the right off screen allowing the text to show up uncovered. That's only a guess though since I'm left handed and I don't even bother with the stylus if I want to check something so simple anyway.

The first one is actually Tantivity. Outdoor fighter is a green hill or maybe a tree. Anyway, given the risk of a chapter restart, you need to be really sure what a skill means.

Also, I am using my right hand. The text box appears right above the skill icon even if that means covering the other skills. So I am not sure how that would help.

One thing I will say about Awakening's stat screens is that they try to fit all the information on both the stat screens, rather than splitting it up into sections like the earlier games do. It saves screen real estate but I don't think that makes it more convenient, and it's not like the space is expensive as actual real estate.

Can you still nagivate them using the control pad, and a button to display information (e.g. the R button in the GBA games)?

If there is a way, I am not aware of one. I mean, R now zooms. Start and Select now don't even seem to do anything at all on player phase outside of battle animations. Odd, seeing how they could have just as well been used to switch between the status screen and the mini map screen or something.

Edited June 7, 2014 by BrightBow

[Integrity]

Even if we cut out like half of them for stuff like Breaker or whatever, that's still a lot. And as for the rest, it makes little difference if a skill is useless or not because you need to identify it either way to ensure you are not accidentally engage an enemy who can screw you over. It's easy to say that the skills can easily be identified if you already spend hundreds of hours on the game.

um

if a skill is useless, how would engaging an enemy with it ever fuck you over by definition?

And I know the difference between a skill I can recognize because I've played the game forever (Tantivity) and a skill that's objectively easy to recognize (Swordfaire) without ever seeing it once, thanks. You're not even putting any faith in the gamer to see something once and remember what it does.

I'm really confused as to your entire stance here. After deflating the HUGE ninety-five by cropping a third of them to being repeats/coded, half of those are still either going to never pop up on enemies (or enemies that matter) or are essentially worthless (tantivity.) and at that point we've got what, twenty skills tops? What's unreasonable about that, even assuming the images are entirely random? What would your solution be, besides making colorful representative icons?

[Jotari]

For what it worth even if we named tantivity appeared beside

Even if we cut out like half of them for stuff like Breaker or whatever, that's still a lot. And as for the rest, it makes little difference if a skill is useless or not because you need to identify it either way to ensure you are not accidentally engage an enemy who can screw you over. It's easy to say that the skills can easily be identified if you already spend hundreds of hours on the game.

The first one is actually Tantivity. Outdoor fighter is a green hill or maybe a tree. Anyway, given the risk of a chapter restart, you need to be really sure what a skill means.

Also, I am using my right hand. The text box appears right above the skill icon even if that means covering the other skills. So I am not sure how that would help.

If there is a way, I am not aware of one. I mean, R now zooms. Start and Select now don't even seem to do anything at all on player phase outside of battle animations. Odd, seeing how they could have just as well been used to switch between the status screen and the mini map screen or something.

Do you hold the pen at the very base? Because I have Awakening on and a pen out now and I just can't see how you're covering it. The way the text box appears seems specifically designed not to get in the way. You'd have to hold the stylus at the very base and somehow touch it from above since the text appears above the icon and stretches to the left. Even trying to obscure it I can always see the name when using my right hand along with the first half of the first line which by the time I've started reading I've already unconsciously moved my hand out of the way. I could understand if you were using your left hand but when using a right hand it seems like it couldn't possibly be anymore user friendly then the way it is now so far as touching to show text goes.

[BrightBow]

um

if a skill is useless, how would engaging an enemy with it ever fuck you over by definition?

And I know the difference between a skill I can recognize because I've played the game forever (Tantivity) and a skill that's objectively easy to recognize (Swordfaire) without ever seeing it once, thanks. You're not even putting any faith in the gamer to see something once and remember what it does.

I'm really confused as to your entire stance here. After deflating the HUGE ninety-five by cropping a third of them to being repeats/coded, half of those are still either going to never pop up on enemies (or enemies that matter) or are essentially worthless (tantivity.) and at that point we've got what, twenty skills tops? What's unreasonable about that, even assuming the images are entirely random? What would your solution be, besides making colorful representative icons?

The problem is that you don't want to risk engaging the enemy in order to find out that he can't harm you that badly. You will want to check his skills first just in case he can do that.

I halved the number because it was a vague guess for how many skills are part of a series that have some sort of symbol like a shield or axe or whatever. And I rather estimated that value too high because I don't want to risk being wrong in my favor just in case somebody actually does go through the trouble of counting and categorizing them all and it turns out I'm way off the mark.

Unless you argue that these kind of skills make up like 80 of them. I am not sure what difference it makes. It's a massive amount either way.

Edited June 7, 2014 by BrightBow

[Integrity]

It's a massive amount either way.

no it isn't

fuck it i'm out, i forgot how frustrating getting anything through to you was

[Jotari]

I personally find this to be a fascinating topic and would like to see if anyone other than BrightBow has a problem with it.

[Florete]

Irrelevant to the point (and not even entirely accurate). The fact of the matter is, if you want to play HHM in FE7, something like Lyn Mode is tied to it at some point.

What do you mean, not even entirely accurate? It's a known fact that Lyn mode is optional once the game has been fully completed once.

If it was common for video games to come with free Anthrax spores, does that makes it OK? It's dumb as hell if there isn't any particular reason for a difficulty unlock. Awakening actually has a sensible one (Lunatic Casual/Classic for equivalent mode in Lunatic+), whereas the unlocks for other games range from annoying (Radiant Dawn) to extremely annoying (Blazing Sword).

While I'll agree that having all difficulties available is better than needing to unlock, it's hardly some video game crime to do so. Most players are going to start on a medium difficulty their first time through, often even series veterans for a new entry, and many players also like the satisfaction of unlocking new content (otherwise why the hell would any game have content that needed unlocking).

I agree that, barring some map travel decisions, Awakening does have the best interface in the series, but you are severely overstating the effect of it and, as has been pointed out, not even getting facts straight as to what is new and what was around ten years ago. Optimize is an awkward option that only actually gives you precisely what you want half the time (if that), and store all and master list (with pictures!) have been around, yet for some reason Awakening limited inventory management to just this master list, whereas before you could use that, or just the convoy, or trade between two units alone without entering any bigger list. The particular benefits to Awakening's interface are cycling through weapons, restocking (which was actually around in the DS games), and the advanced ability to check enemy attack ranges.

The tedium you suggest was in previous titles only exists for people who play the games over and over again (and PoR). Enemy phase skipping is a really good addition, but unless you have the confidence of someone who has played the game enough to know what to expect, you won't be using it most of the time anyway because you want to actually know what happens on the enemy phases. The only places in past FEs I can think of that would have significantly benefited from a phase-skipping option are a few chapters in RD like 3-E and PoR, and that's because of PoR's map animations. Otherwise, no player is really going to notice a significant difference in the speed or "tedium" of the game 98% of the time. Hell, phase skipping aside, RD is actually faster with all animations turned off than Awakening, and the GBA games are about the same speed.

While matters have (mostly) improved, I don't understand how you can seriously suggest that past titles are unplayable or something to that effect. It all sounds like you're just exaggerating a point into oblivion.

[Baldrick]

[spoiler=sidenote]I don't mean to keep bringing it up, but I don't have a 3DS (or Awakening) so I don't know whether you can check everything using exclusively the buttons or not. I am under the impression that you cannot, so this is all irrelevant if you can.

I don't think the way skills are displayed in the stat menu is a big deal. My problem is how you access it. The stylus on the DS is awkward for me, because I have two hands and they cradle the DS. I can reach the buttons with my thumbs, but to use the touchscreen I have to take out the stylus, hold the machine with my right hand, and poke at the screen with the left. I can't hold it steady one-handed, and I am unused to the hand-eye co-ordination required, so I often miss my target. Ever since the GBC, I have used a console the same way (adjusting for the shape). You can add all the creature comforts you like, but if you remove one I have relied on for more than a decade, that is a deal-breaker. And in general, removing key UI features for no good reason is much worse than adding them.

Of course, I don't mind having the option. In SD, you could navigate with the stylus or the buttons, so I can just ignore the touch screen capability. That is the ideal configuration since people who prefer one or the other are accounted for.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The magic weapon triangle adds flavor to the world?

AHahahahahah right?

no it isn't

fuck it i'm out, i forgot how frustrating getting anything through to you was

Yeah some people really dont take kindly to being in a vocal minority so they believe everyone must adhere to their ridiculous standards.

Thats all this thread is: Vocal Minority

[shadowofchaos]

Hell, phase skipping aside, RD is actually faster with all animations turned off than Awakening, and the GBA games are about the same speed.

Actually, holding the B button on the enemy phase on map only animations makes it just as fast as RD if not faster.

You can skip battles and even staff animations by pressing it on your phase too.

Setting Skip actions to "movement" also further decreases your time without actually completely skipping everything.

Edited June 7, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[RJWalker]

I saw this point being made and I just want to point out that Genealogy has a entire menu option dedicated to explaining skills. It lists every skill in the game, what each skill does and which of your currently recruited characters have what skill.

Makes sense since skills were something completely new.

Now I didn't need it in Awakening since I looked it up online but I'm sure an option like this would have been greatly appreciated by newcomers. Might have been too long considering the number of skills but they could have done it. However, the game explains skills enough that I don't hold the lack of this feature against it but will say that Genealogy did it better. Simple as that.

I stand by my belief that the whatever faults the DS games had, they had the best user interface because you were given the option to interact with them however you want. For the same reason, I believe that the user interface for Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver was the best in the series before Gen 6 and that Gen 5 was a downgrade.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Interceptor]

What do you mean, not even entirely accurate? It's a known fact that Lyn mode is optional once the game has been fully completed once.

As was pointed out, you need to run it again for a gaiden.

While I'll agree that having all difficulties available is better than needing to unlock, it's hardly some video game crime to do so.

Which is why I just said it was "dumb".

Most players are going to start on a medium difficulty their first time through, often even series veterans for a new entry, and many players also like the satisfaction of unlocking new content (otherwise why the hell would any game have content that needed unlocking).

Still a net negative.

I agree that, barring some map travel decisions, Awakening does have the best interface in the series, but you are severely overstating the effect of it [...]

I don't agree, especially considering the sainted status that people are giving the mediocre stories of the older titles.

and, as has been pointed out, not even getting facts straight as to what is new and what was around ten years ago.

Looking forward to still hearing about this in 2017.

Optimize is an awkward option that only actually gives you precisely what you want half the time (if that)

Optimize is a really good way to set up a good baseline set of gear for all of your deployed units (or one specific one). If you ever have units coming in and out of your lineup, or just reclassed someone, it's a big time-saver. Shame that more people don't use it.

and store all and master list (with pictures!) have been around

Not exactly. Store all only works for individual units (in Awakening you can also use it on the entire army), and the master list does not have any portrait overlays, just names.

By the way, to hell with all of you for making me turn on my DS. Which now apparently has a broken top screen, but it doesn't matter because GBA.

yet for some reason Awakening limited inventory management to just this master list, whereas before you could use that, or just the convoy, or trade between two units alone without entering any bigger list.

It's weird that you consider it an advantage to have duplicative functionality for no particularly good reason. Awakening's system is perfectly simple: you go to a character, pick a slot, put an item there (or trade one out). The location doesn't matter, because everything is available, so you don't have to waste any time searching for a particular item. Trading, putting stuff in the convoy, refilling stocks, it all happens in the same place. FFS, you can even equip weapons and re-arrange items here; yet another thing that Blazing Sword can't elegantly handle.

Awakening's inventory management system is exceptionally good. There is never any question about where you need to go to do something.

The particular benefits to Awakening's interface are cycling through weapons, restocking (which was actually around in the DS games), and the advanced ability to check enemy attack ranges.

Those are AMONG the benefits of Awakening, yes.

The tedium you suggest was in previous titles only exists for people who play the games over and over again (and PoR). Enemy phase skipping is a really good addition, but unless you have the confidence of someone who has played the game enough to know what to expect, you won't be using it most of the time anyway because you want to actually know what happens on the enemy phases. The only places in past FEs I can think of that would have significantly benefited from a phase-skipping option are a few chapters in RD like 3-E and PoR, and that's because of PoR's map animations. Otherwise, no player is really going to notice a significant difference in the speed or "tedium" of the game 98% of the time. Hell, phase skipping aside, RD is actually faster with all animations turned off than Awakening, and the GBA games are about the same speed.

This is a lot of text to downplay what is a really useful addition to the series. Awakening even goes further with an in-between option: you can speed up Enemy Phase, too, or skip certain kinds of actions. You have all sorts of settings and toggles to put the game's pace exactly where you want it to be, as opposed to the "one burlap sack fits all" option.

While matters have (mostly) improved, I don't understand how you can seriously suggest that past titles are unplayable or something to that effect. It all sounds like you're just exaggerating a point into oblivion.

"Unplayable" is a word other people used; not me. What I said was this:

"The old titles are no great shakes; they are thin, limiting, tedious, and have been left behind by modern TBS games. The best that you can say, is that they were good for their time. The rest is mostly nostalgia, if we're being honest."

That's it. You'd think that I slapped everyone across the face with a chainmail gauntlet.

[RJWalker]

Hmm, weren't you the one saying playing the older games is like getting hit in the face with a rake, that FE7 gives you PTSD, that the older games have crap interfaces, among other things?

If that isn't implying that you think they're unplayable, then I'm at a loss for words.

[Interceptor]

If that isn't implying that you think they're unplayable [...]

It's not unplayable, it's unpleasant. Once you've used a superior interface (one that stays the eff out of your way and allows you to play the game), every speedbump in an older title is a fresh affront, a reminder that you are battling more than just trash enemies with generic portraits.

[...] then I'm at a loss for words.

Don't tease me, bro.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Interceptor

[RJWalker]

It's not unplayable, it's unpleasant. Once you've used a superior interface (one that stays the eff out of your way and allows you to play the game), every speedbump in an older title is a fresh affront, a reminder that you are battling more than just trash enemies with generic portraits.

Don't tease me, bro.

Yeah, Awakening is a reminder that the 2 previous games had a far suuperior interface.

[Baldrick]

Which is why I just said it was "dumb".

You compared it to the game giving you anthrax. I'd probably use a stronger word than "dumb".

You'd think that I slapped everyone across the face with a chainmail gauntlet.

Read over some of the hyperbole you used, (I can quote it for you if you really don't recall it) then imagine people are saying that about the things you like.

[Czar_Yoshi]

How is it a good thing if the game randomly decides to close a shop? What RPG does that? Pokemon? Dragon Quest? Elder Scrolls? Etrian Odyssey?

You either let the game waste your time by going into a pointless, generic battle or you let it waste your time by putting the 3DS down and do something different for a few hours. Not a good choice either way.

The console games have a high resolution compared to the DS screens. Or maybe it's just the screen size that makes the difference here. I didn't count the pixels. Point is, the screen displays a lot more items at once.

Expecting the player to simply memorize them is absurd. Those are 95 skills. I probably miscounted and forgot to count the Lunatic variations. But point is: There are a lot of them.

You not only need to know the effect of every single one of them but also every single value attached to it. And a lot of them look exactly the same except for slight differences like a recolor. Like all the rally skills or the Dark Mage skills. What was the Hex skill again? The black hand with the red or the purple background?

It's absurd to expect players to memorize them all. You might as well not display Weapon names because they also have unique icons. It's theoretically possible, even easier because most games in the series probably don't come close to have separate 95 items. But it's massive pain in the ass that you shouldn't have to deal with.

Also, what happened with simply selecting something on the status menu to read an explanation? Now you have to hit those small symbols with the touchpen that you don't need for anything else in the game except for checking skills. And of course the text appears right were you would hold your pen. So you have to move it out of the way first to read it, just to move it back into the screen to check the next. Rinse repeat, five times for each enemy, countless more times for all the other guys on the map.

I didn't say anything about whether closing shops is a good thing or not, I said it's gameplay, not interface and you can't cite it as an example of why you don't like the interface.

95 Skills is too much to memorize? Really? Without having played the game I'd say that's fair, but...

If you're new to Awakening, what mode will you play first? Normal or Hard. You could try Lunatic, but you'll likely get stomped and Skills will have nothing to do with it. Even if you're a vet, Lunatic+ isn't available from the start. Enemy skills aren't very common on Hard and practically nonexistent on Normal, and will very rarely actually make a difference (the one skill that will, Counter on Warriors, is both very rare, restricted to a few chapters in the second half of the game, has a very unique, recognizable icon, and has been around since Tellius, so vets won't even need to check it to know to avoid it (or it'll stand out as something that needs to be checked)).

Other than that, pretty much all the enemy skills are either +Hit/Avo or give a small stat boost, and won't be game enders, especially on lower difficulties when your units have several hits of leeway before they kick the bucket. Thanks to the skills that your team learns, you're also likely to know about some of the enemy skills in advance (particularly the ones in Valm if you trained Sully, Stahl or Kellam).

Once you've had a playthrough or two's worth of time to get used to all the skills, memorizing them shouldn't be a problem- Pokemon has like 700 different pokemon and probably as many moves, and each of those pokemon has a unique moveset, and yet at the very least scrubs can learn to recognize all of the pokemon and most of the important moves. Active recall isn't important, only recognition, because you're only trying to watch out for dangerous stuff, not build a team. If you are trying to build a team, then yes, it's a good idea to know what all the skills do (or at least the important ones), but how can you optimize your team if you don't even know the extent of their abilities?

Even then, there are probably 30-40 different types of skills, which is practically nothing. If you can't memorize or at least recognize that after multiple playthroughs, maybe SRPGs aren't for you.

Regarding Rally, the colors could take a little while to get used to but fortunately it almost never matters if the enemy has it because the AI doesn't know how to use it.

[spoiler=sidenote]I don't mean to keep bringing it up, but I don't have a 3DS (or Awakening) so I don't know whether you can check everything using exclusively the buttons or not. I am under the impression that you cannot, so this is all irrelevant if you can.

You need to use touch to check the mt of weapons when on the field (you can see it normally in the preparations menu), the effect of skills, and a bunch of obvious stuff like "Str affects how much damage you do" and "Wyverns have high Def".

[Interceptor]

You compared it to the game giving you anthrax. I'd probably use a stronger word than "dumb".

No, I pointed out that just because something was common, that doesn't make it OK. The extreme serves to highlight the point, because that's something that's very obviously not OK.

Read over some of the hyperbole you used, (I can quote it for you if you really don't recall it) then imagine people are saying that about the things you like.

Ahh, this is a pleasant fiction. It would be nice if people were better at using metaphor; maybe we could get a good argument going around here.

[Constable Reggie]

Ahh, this is a pleasant fiction. It would be nice if people were better at using metaphor; maybe we could get a good argument going around here.

Fire Emblem: Awakening gave me AIDS

[BANRYU]

The magic triangles never made a lick of difference and Fog of War just sucked, though. There were good mechanics that didn't make it to FE13, and neither of those were them. :P

Maybe not the best examples (admittedly I was reaching a bit when I said Fog of War, despite knowing that most people don't like it), but they WERE mechanics that I personally enjoyed ~3~ *shrug* They can be good if well implemented, and if the different magic classes are substantially differentiated, I think.

[Baldrick]

@Interceptor I prefer to debate with facts and logic, rather than see who can be the most offensive.

@Czar If that's the extent of it, and the battle forecast takes into account the changes caused by skills, I could live without those. In Lunatic+ it would be easy to memorise the icons of the seven skills used.