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The Easy and Efficient AAAA Project: The Test Run (Genealogy)


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This topic got me to start a ranked playthrough as well, in a more "standard" fashion (like no slim sword). Would you think i'd be good to note my levels/turns/arena clears and all that jazz to have a playthrough to compare with? If you're uninterested, that's fine too, its just something i'm doing on my own time.

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This topic got me to start a ranked playthrough as well, in a more "standard" fashion (like no slim sword). Would you think i'd be good to note my levels/turns/arena clears and all that jazz to have a playthrough to compare with? If you're uninterested, that's fine too, its just something i'm doing on my own time.

I would like to see this. If only to have a standard to compare this run to.

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I (and most people I think) play FE4 with the assistance of frameskipping to speed up the slow enemy phases, so that might be hard to judge (I'm done up to chapter 2 currently, so I wouldn't have that). I can say how long I took WITH speeding up the enemy phases, and how long/many tries it took to put people through the arena (if they made it), but I dunno if I could stomach playing FE4 at normal speeds :(

I could definately post how long it took in real time with the sped up phases though. I guess I could also estimate it by seeing how much longer one enemy phase is normally without speeding through it and just multiply it by the number of turns to get a rough estimation I guess.

I've tracked unit stats too, I don't think there are too many outliers in being blessed statistically aside from Noish who got an obscene amount of defence. So the arena should theoretically be replicateable.

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Edited by General Horace
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  • 2 months later...

Ok guys, turns out there's a hard mode A.I. option for this game, unlockable only after you beat the game, and then leave at least one Epilogue file intact before starting a new game (so no deleting that Epilogue file once you go through the credits)! And, even better, you don't even need to get through all the credits to have this work! Even if the screen freezes at Johan/Johalva's ascension to their thrones, the mode is still unlocked! How to access this mode? Well, just start a new game, and in the options Menu...

Fire%20Emblem%204%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Ke

There you go! Easy as that! So, I'm going to play all the way up to where I was, but, before I do, here's something else I found. A guaranteed method of getting 2 Str. Procs on Sigurd's first two levels! Unfortunately, this only works on Hard Mode, as the enemies move in slightly different ways between difficulties, though...I'm very, VERY fuzzy on the details. But anyways, here it is...

Turn 1: Sigurd goes 11 West and 1 South, Alec goes 5 West and 1 North, Noish goes 4 West and 2 North.

Turn 2: Noish kills MBandit from the south, then goes all the way West, park Alec on the Village tile, kill MBandit from afar east with Azel, then send Lex all the way West. Finally, kill the Archer with Sigurd, and put him directly East of the next Axefighter in his path. This should result in 1+ HP, 1+ Str, 1+ Spd, and 1+ Luck.

Turn 3: Kill other Archer with Sigurd, then put him 2 East and 1 North of DiMaggio. Then have Alec visit the Village, have Azel kill the Axefighter, have Lex go as far west as he can, have Cuan kill Axefighter attacking Castle with Javelin before going all the way West, and then end your turn. This should result in Sigurd getting 1+ HP, 1+ Str, and 1+ Def.

And then tomorrow, I'll post the Normal mode method, which results in much BETTER level ups, but can't be used on Hard Mode! So how's that?

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Those guaranteed two strength procs sound nice. Before now I've always just had Sigurd use the iron lance to one round the barbarians near the castle, but for that to work you have to line up random numbers quite well. Do you know what the actual difference between easy and hard AI is, because I've played with both and not noticed much.

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Those guaranteed two strength procs sound nice.

Yeah. And the Normal Mode version is even better!

Turn 1: Same as Hard Mode.

Turn 2: Have Noish kill MBandit from South before going down as far as he can, have Azel kill the other MBandit from afar East, move Lex 2 East and 4 South, and finally, have Sigurd kill the Archer before planting him DIRECTLY EAST of the next Axefighter in his path. End turn, without having Alec do anything, and Sigurd should gain 1+ HP, 1+ Str, 1+ Skl, 1+ Spd, 1+ Lck, and 1+ MDf! So actually a pretty awesome level up!

Turn 3: Plant Noish directly Southwest of Alec, have Azel go 4 West, have Lex go 6 North and 3 West, have Cuan go 3 South and 9 West before equipping the Javelin, have Fin go 2 South and 8 West, and finally, have Sigurd kill the Archer before putting him 2 spaces North of the tree. End turn without Alec or Ethlin doing anything, and Sigurd should get 2+ HP, 1+ Str, 1+ Skl, 1+ Spd, 1+ Lck, and 1+ Def!

(And then, you can take this even FURTHER for another awesome level up, if you can remember it...)

Turn 4: Have Azel enter the Southwest forest without attacking, move Lex just 1 West, have Fin kill the Axefighter from the South before going 2 South and 5 West, have Cuan go 3 South and 8 West, and finally, have Sigurd kill DiMaggio's East stationary Axefighter before putting him right in front of the big man himself! Do this right, and Sigurd should get 2+ HP, 1+ Str, 1+ Skl, 1+ Lck, and 1+ Def! And what's even better? He'll still be at exactly 25 HP, so he won't even be in danger while you're doing all this!

...

Did I mention that I got these strats from the TAS :p?

Do you know what the actual difference between easy and hard AI is, because I've played with both and not noticed much.

Hmmm....well, while playing around with those strats, I did notice a few minute differences in what the A.I. did. For example, the Normal Mode method doesn't work in hard mode, because on Turn 1, the Axefighter that attacks Alec on Enemy Phase attacks him from the SOUTH instead of from the West. And then on Turn 2, rather than trying to keep on hitting Alec, that same Axefighter will go and try to fight Arden, who's still guarding the Castle at that point.

Plus, in addition to that, there's another Axefighter with a Hand Axe who's SUPPOSED to attack Noish on the Turn 2 Enemy Phase...but instead attacks Lex, something he does not do on Normal Mode.

So, I haven't played very far, but, from what I can see, the A.I. DOES seem to be at least a little smarter. I.E., it's better about attacking people it can hit over people it can't hit, and is better about trying to seize your castle (even if someone is already guarding it).

81 FRICKEN TURNS!!!

xD! Well, technically, I think I can shave that down a little, but...yeah, pretty crazy huh?

Edited by FionordeQuester
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I think wasting that many turns is fine, especially if you're going for a reliable clear that doesn't take rng planning, since the turn counts are super lax in general. In my recent/maybe current play through I took a lot longer than necessary on chapter three. It might be worth comparing the chapter one super long grind with the benefits in chapter three, because the nice thing about doing it in chapter three is that you have your full cast and can get elite money for pretty much everyone, which is really, really nice for Tilityu and a few others. You could also use it to build kills on a more useful weapon.

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Hey guys, guess what? I managed to get the Turn count for Chapter 1 all the way down to 53 Turns, all while still getting almost everyone through the Arena, and while still getting 100 Kills on that Slim Sword? How did I do that?

Well, first, just a quick lesson on how to move Dew so that you can position the Captain into a convenient position (where Sigurd can attack the rest of his men, but not him). Note that this was written on Hard Mode...

Turn 2: Park in front of Village.

Turn 3: Go 3 Northeast.

Turn 4: Go into Northern forest.

And the reason it's important to leave the Captain alive is because, instead of using the Genoa reinforcements like my 81 Turn clear did, I used the Marpha reinforcements for Slim Sword grinding instead, which turns out to be much, MUCH faster so long as you have Aideen around to Warp Sigurd to Genoa to repair his sword. In fact, that's pretty much where ALL of the turns saved came from, mainly because the reinforcements come out so much faster AND because you don't have to screw around with Archer reinforcements, or having to weaken but not kill Kinbois, or any of that. Nope, park Sigurd outside Marpha, and it's just one big game of whack-a-mole, with 9 guys per pop!

Now, that said, one thing I did have to sacrifice was Aideen clearing the Arena, since now she wasn't able to get to Level 20 before then. However, I believe that once Aideen promotes and earns some cash from the Chapter 2 Arena, that Midir will still have enough money for the Elite Ring, so I'm not too worried. And of course, on that note, Midir and Aideen are only a few turns from becoming married, just like the last run...

Hard Mode Tidbit: Also, more notes on the A.I. It seems that the difference between whether the A.I. attacks someone who has low defenses, or someone it can actually hit is at least partially determined by what kind of terrain they are standing on. So if the weak but speedy person is on a plain, he'll be attacked. But if that speedy person is on a forest, then the A.I. will attack the other person, regardless of whether or not it actually has a chance of hitting said weak but speedy person.

Any Mode Tidbit: Another interesting curiosity I found is that, after Sigurd reached a point where none of the Marpha reinforcements could hit him, they would still attack him, but only if he was standing on a road (regardless of whether or not they could hit him even when he was on said road, which they could not in this Chapter 1 run). Otherwise, if he was on a plain, they would literally just walk right by him! So in that way, it looks as though that the A.I. can sometimes pull the old FE5 trick of just ignoring anyone it deems too strong to engage.

So yeah, that's about it. So, have a nice night, and God bless you all!

Edited by FionordeQuester
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yeah FE4 HM AI is in a lot of ways easier because if you ever have Sigurd/Lex at a high enough DEF that they get 1-damage'd by enemies,the enemies will suicide on them rather than just surround them without attacking and block off their path like they do on NM.

not sure if they go for enemies they have 0 hit on though

Edited by BBM
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Argh...well, played through Chapter 1 yet AGAIN because it seemed Aideen did NOT have enough money to Warp spam to Level 20, buy a tome to clear the Arena, AND still give enough money for Midir to buy the Elite Ring at the same time. In fact, she ended up about 8000G short...

So, I restarted that Chapter, and this time, I very carefully managed things so that when I had to repair the Warp Staff in Chapter 2, I would do it not when it was broken or at 1 use or whatever, but only when 10 Warp Staff castings was the EXACT amount I needed to get Aideen to promote, therefore saving money. And then then, she still won't have exactly enough money, but, she'll only be short about 2000G-3000G, which means that Dew can easily give her the money she needs...

Oh yeah, and I cleared Chapter 1 in 52 Turns this time. Just so you know!

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yeah FE4 HM AI is in a lot of ways easier because if you ever have Sigurd/Lex at a high enough DEF that they get 1-damage'd by enemies,the enemies will suicide on them rather than just surround them without attacking and block off their path like they do on NM.

not sure if they go for enemies they have 0 hit on though

Unfortionatly, i am not doing levin!fury on my hard mode ai run, which would be the easiest way to check.

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Nah, they don't go for 0 hit enemies...well, at least not if they're on Plains, Meadows, Forests, Sand, or anything like that. If they're on ROADS though, well then, all bets are off.

Oh. Right. You did mention that head-scratching bit of ai design in another thread.

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Alright guys, Chapter 2 has been done n' dusted...again. Man, I really don't ever want to see THIS level again >_<! So here it is!

Chapter 2: 40 Turns

Heirhein: 10 Turns

Holyn and Aira clear out the Arena, Sigurd only clears out the first four rounds of the Arena, and after that, I made sure he had the 50 Crit Slim Sword, and also had Ethlin recieve the Light Sword, and then sell it. However, unlike last time, Midir does NOT join Sigurd and friends in their total subjugation of Augusty. In addition, THIS time, I purposely had Fin get injured in the Arena to a point where one more hit from a Heirhein enemy would send him into Prayer range. With that, as well as his Steel Lance, Fin literally 2HKOed almost every single enemy except Elliot himself, who soon fell to Cuan...

So yeah, that worked out well! Everyone just suicided themselves on Fin, who had been knocked down to 2 HP just before the enemy phase! In fact...

Hard Mode Tidbit: It seems to me that in this mode, enemies are much more likely than usual to gang up all on one unit that looks weak, unlike usual, where they seem to target units more or less at random. Shame then, that it doesn't account for Prayer ;p !

Now then, after Elliot bit the dust, I made yet another alteration to my route by this time deciding to have FIN be Lachesis's husband rather than Beowulf, for three reasons. One, Prayer is REALLY good, and two, making Lachesis tag along with Beowulf means that Beowulf cannot get Gold from the Chapter 2 villages as quickly as he'd otherwise be able to. And finally, three. I think one of the reasons I decided against Fin the first time around was because I couldn't figure out a convenient way of getting Beowulf to talk with Lachesis without just making the two an item, however, this time I DID think of a way. Simply have Lachy and Fin walk down to Verdane, Return Beo to Verdane after he gets the villages, and viola! Problem solved!

After that, Sigurd killed the two Generals with Cuan tagging along (and Lex trying to get what Experience he could off of the henchmen), got both the Return and Barrier Rings, and seized Heirhein!

Anphony: 15 Turns

First things first, about Aideen. Yeah, turns out...

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

She DIDN'T quite have enough to Warp spam to Level 20, clear the Arena, AND give Midir enough money to buy the Elite Ring all at the same time, BUT, thanks to my efforts with Dew, I had a solution for that!

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

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And there we go! Problem solved! Hopefully, you all can get a sense of what I plan to do with Dew in the future. Basically, because he can use the Bargain Skill, and because he can clear out Arena's so easily, the guy is actually very handy as a sort of money dispenser, for people who need some extra help to clear the Arena's! I mean really, all he's gotta do is get a ton of cash, then lower the amount of money he has until he's got JUST enough to give people what they need, and give it to them. And THEN, once he's given them their dough, he can re-sell all of the other items he has, and get his money back, so he can do it again, and so on and so forth! And as long as retain at least 20,000G to 40,000G by the end of each chapter (depending on whether he's promoted or not), I can do this all the way till the end of Gen 1! So that's awesome, eh?

But back to the game...Again, I didn't rig things so that Levin would ORKO every bandit, because I didn't think that was justified in terms of real time. And even though you can have the Paladin and his/her two flunkies on the Enemy Phase immediately after capturing Heirhein, I chose to not do that, instead opting to engage them on the next Player Phase. The reason I did this is because because that seemed to be the trigger to Voltz deciding to charge your group, so if you have him charge at the wrong time, then the whole thing turns into even more of a hell storm than it already is.

Now, I gave Ethlin the Relive Staff, healed whoever needed it most, and obviously I warped Ardan to Heirhein immediately afterwards, because, you know. . And in addition, I gave Ethlin the Relive StaffThough not as obviously, I didn't have Sylvia get the Bargain Ring, instead opting to give her four undamaged villages (including the Iron Cutter village, and one of the villages that would later end up in Clement's Sleep Staff range), giving the Bargain Ring to Noish (that way, he can use the Pursuit Ring as well as the Elite Ring in Chapter 3), and giving the rest to Beowulf. Also, in addition to all of that, I did something unique with Lex here...

See, after having him kill the Paladin, I had him clear a fight in Heirhein's Arena to give him full HP again, and then immediately sent him down, AWAY from Sigurd and co., and towards Mackily, that way, instead of getting walled by Clement's forces the way I did last time, I would have Lex lure out his guards far enough that Sigurd would just kill them as he was marching to Mackily. More info on that later, but for now...

Last time, when fighting Voltz, I believe I went through this very complex process of killing Voltz with Cuan, recruiting Beo, AND maybe even killing Macbeth all on this same turn...but this time, I just said "screw it", and took an extra turn to weaken Voltz first, and THEN do all that good stuff. This was mainly because I felt like the old strat kind of needed Lex (who I no longer had), and because it took way too much time in real time. So, anyways, after that, Macbeth fell easily enough.

Mackily: 25 Turns

In this section, I baited Mackily's guards by putting Lex in range of a swordsman and a bowman as I walked Ardan further up to where Ethlin was (who by now was parked outside Anphony along with Beo, Cuan, and Sigurd). In addition, I warped Fin up to Anphony in order to get that Hero Lance. Yeah, clearing out the Arena becomes a LOT easier with that, let me assure you 8) ! And of course, I had Ethlin staff spamming once Cuan was done clearing the Arena, and also warped Noish up there so he could get his Bargain Ring.

Now, as for Mackily's forces, I was actually facing a bit of a problem. See, Sigurd was still about 2 turns away from diving into Mackily's forces, however, Lex was getting pretty badly beaten up by the guys he was luring out. However, if I had him retreat and run, why, then all of Clement's forces would all just march on back to their castle! So what was I to do in that situation?

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

Get Sylvia to draw them instead of course! Yeah, great save there huh? That screen was the aftermath of when I put that plan into motion, btw. So anyways, Sigurd went in there and cleaned house while Lex retreated to Nodion in order to Arena Fight his HP back up to full. Then Lex went back in to gain experience and help clear out enemies as Sigurd went over to Clement and shoved a sword in his gut. No Sleep shenanigans this time!

Augusty: 40 Turns

And here is where I pretty much said "screw the turncounts", and just had Sigurd solo Zyne and all of the other dudes with the Light Sword (with some help from Lex since I had no more Arena fights to restore Sigurd's HP with). I mean, after all, Dierdre still had to get up to Level 30, all the guys needed to fight in the Arena, and every turn that passed was another turn where Fin and Lachesis got to hang out...so it was all good! And by the end of that, here's how many kills the Light Sword had...

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

So, only 2 kills away from getting the Critical skill, which is very cool. Oh yes, and about the Arena, , well...just see for yourself 8) !

(note that these following videos are only supposed to be 2-3 minutes, but got extended because I put in music that was much too long. So don't get the wrong idea)



So yeah, that's that. I mean, yeah, Sylvia still couldn't beat Kemois, because, well...not a whole lot you can do with a guy who literally ONE-SHOTS you...but still, hopefully that gives you some idea of the sheer POWER of the Slim Sword! But anyways, that's that. Have a nice day, and God bless you all!

Sigurd: Level 26 (*)

Noish: Level 11 (*)
Alec: Level 11 (*)
Ardan: Level 9 (6)
Azel: Level 4 (4)
Lex: Level 20 (7)
Cuan: Level 16 (*)
Fin: Level 10 (*)
Ethlin: Level 21 (*)
Midir: Level 11 (*)
Aideen: Level 23 (*)
Dew: Level 14 (*)
Aira: Level 9 (*)
Jamka: Level 11 (*)
Dierdre: Level 30 (*)
Holyn: Level 14 (*)
Lachesis: Level 7 (*)
Levin: Level 10 (*)
Sylvia: Level 9 (7)
Beowulf: Level 11 (*)
Fury: Level 9 (*)

Edited by FionordeQuester
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Alright, and now for Chapter 3!

Chapter 3: 51 Turns

Now, you know how in the last post, I decided to just not care about turn counts? Well, this time, I take the exact same approach here! I mean, hey, I had to get Fin and Lachesis paired up, and that was already going to take a while ANYWAYS...so why rush through, you know? Anyways...

Madino: 6 Turns

Holyn gives Aira her Hero Sword, she gets warped back to the home castle, sells her Hero Sword to Sigurd, and then starts hanging out with Holyn. While that goes on, Lex clears out the Arena, and goes to save the northeast village from the pirates as Cuan marches out to save the southeast village (the ones that aren't near the castle, just to be clear). In addition, Fury grabs the Slim Sword, and flies off to save the northwest village, with help from Sylvia, who absolutely NEEDS to go as far as she can in order to help Fury reach it in 4 Turns instead of 5. And finally, after having Deirdre give him all her money, Sigurd headed off and basically killed everyone he could up north with the Light Sword, before sweeping Jacoban aside with the Hero Sword.

Oh yeah, and Fury also gets another Pirate to the east, and even gets the 3+ Strength village for her valiant efforts!

Silvail: 12 Turns

Now, one thing I didn't like about last Chapter was how little money and experience Ardan got. So, since Ardan also happened to still have the Elite Ring, I sold Jacoban's Thunder Sword to Ardan after Ethlin had Warped Sigurd back, and Warped Ardan up to Madino in order to grind some experience. And afterwards...

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

I Warped Dew in order to steal some Gold off of two random Pirates up north. As for Eltshan's crossknights, well, considering how ridiculously overpowered Sigurd was at this point...

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

I mean yeah, I didn't kill absolutely ALL of them, but still a pretty good number of them I feel! And of course...

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The guards at Silvail didn't do much better xD! Dang I love the weapon critical system in FE4! As for the Light Sword, here's how many kills it had by this point...

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

So as for the rest of the level...

Orgahill: 51 Turns

Yeah, it basically just went about the way you'd expect it to. Sigurd gets the Leg Ring, Ardan grinds off of all of the Leg Ring Captain's men, Tiltyu, Briggid, and Claude are warped back by Ethlin (after Sigurd had killed most of Briggid's pursuers), Gold was given to all the people who needed it, all our future lovebirds spent some quality time together, and duh duh duh duh duh. For reference, here are my pairings...

Aira X Holyn

Aideen X Midir

Briggid X Dew

Fury X Levin

Tiltyu X Azel

Sylvia X Lex

Lachesis X Fin

So, that's that. Here's the usual Level and Arena stats...

Sigurd: Level 29 (*)
Noish: Level 14 (6)
Alec: Level 14 (6)
Ardan: Level 20 (*)
Azel: Level 5 (3)
Lex: Level 23 (*)
Cuan: Level 20 (*)
Fin: Level 15 (*)
Ethlin: Level 30 (*)
Midir: Level 15 (*)
Aideen: Level 30 (5)
Dew: Level 20 (*)
Aira: Level 15 (*)
Jamka: Level 15 (7)
Dierdre: Level 30 (4)
Holyn: Level 19 (*)
Lachesis: Level 25 (*)
Levin: Level 13 (5)
Sylvia: Level 17 (7)
Beowulf: Level 17 (*)
Fury: Level 15 (*)

Briggid: Level 19 (*)

Tiltyu: Level 13 (*)

Claude: Level 27 (5)

And here's the number of kills on Sigurd's Light Sword!

Fire%20Emblem%20-%20Seisen%20no%20Keifu0

Edited by FionordeQuester
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Chapter 3: 51 Turns

Isn't that a little high for an a rank (especially given that you will have to grind brigid/dew love points)? Also, You're not promoting fin while also pairing him up so that his weapons disappear? won't that make chapter 6 difficult?

Edited by sirmola
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Mmm....NAH! The turn counts are EXTREMELY lenient, and plus, I DID get in quite a bit of Dew and Briggid grinding in there! At least 25-30 Turns worth!

Oh yes, and before I forget, Alec has the Elite Ring, because otherwise, he wouldn't have enough money to use it next Chapter.

Edited by FionordeQuester
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...level 5 Azel, seriously? In a game when you can field everyone, so there is next to no opportunity cost for using him, I find it difficult to believe you couldn't find something for the boy to do. Efficiency is about using all the resources given to you optimally, and to see a number like that makes me feel like you're just squandering opportunities.

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...level 5 Azel, seriously? In a game when you can field everyone, so there is next to no opportunity cost for using him, I find it difficult to believe you couldn't find something for the boy to do. Efficiency is about using all the resources given to you optimally, and to see a number like that makes me feel like you're just squandering opportunities.

Perhaps. But then, is it really worth it? I mean, I saw your AAAA ranked run, and you rammed the level requirements pretty hard, didn't you? So my thinking is, yeah, I COULD salvage Azel if I worked my butt off to do it, but is it really worth it? After all, there's not really any CONVENIENT way of training him, like the staff bots, or Dew vs. the Marpha Captain in Chapter 1, or Lex vs. everyone in Chapter 2, or Thunder Sword!Ardan in Chapter 3, or Midir vs. the mages in Chapter 4, or...well, you get the picture. Dude's got the lowest Move in the game, no Canto, doesn't have very good durability, does not do well in the Arena...

I mean, don't get the wrong idea, I'm not trying to shout you down or anything. In fact, I'm actually excited to hear about whatever awesome strats you might cook up! I'm just thinking, "what exactly am I supposed to do with the guy?", that's all :^_^: !

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that, this probably won't be the only AAAA ranked run I do. This here is going to be something of a test run, after which, I'll probably go back, look at my mistakes, and revise them so as to simplify the strategies as much as I can, you know what I mean? I know the thread title wasn't very clear about that before...so I've changed it!

Edited by FionordeQuester
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"test run progect" sounds confusing. It sounds like the project consists of test runs. What about something lie "AAAA run progect: now on first run"?

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