CT075 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 yeah leaf is really good, although it isn't immediately obvious to stuff him (unlike, say, sigurd/jr) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Personally I would treat Lyn as having had LM for exp (so she comes in at level 10 or whatever) but without it actually directly affecting placement. I don't really see how Eirika/Ephraim's horse matters so much at an efficient level. C18 and maybe Final is the only map where the mount really makes a difference- all of the other maps are being Warpskipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Warpskipping FE8 kind of relies a lot on massaging Lute or Artur's mag a lot doesn't it? Efficiency doesn't neccessarily assume rigging mag level ups. Edited August 7, 2014 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Saleh is better for warpskipping anyway because of his higher mag compared to artur, and WAY higher staff compared to lute. Give him your nrg ring(s) and use him per normal. Eph/Eir horses matter when hunting Gorgon Eggs and nothing else really. It's their sacred weapons that they like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ok, fine, the horse doesn't matter much because of Warp, but Eirika is still not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 i'm sure there are one or two fringe cases where the horse matters because it decreases the MAG threshold needed (because you can warp them further from the throne etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Clearly Relevant. Also...the horses amount to needing -4 MAG to achieve maximum results. I guess it saves some work, but it's still not paramount when you have base Saleh with 2 Energy rings warping 10 tiles...doesnt' matter for 17 because base Saleh can still pull off getting Eph/Eir to Lyon's tile by turn 1. I guess maybe for 20 it could help save a turn, but i don't think it's paramount by any means that they have a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xator Nova Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I believe Eirika has a better start than Ike (FE9)? I remember that she only needed a str proc' on the first level-up in order to start ORKO'ing stuff with the Rapier on Chapter 1, while Ike can't. Edited August 7, 2014 by Xator Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 fe9 ike is actually pretty bad now that i think about it yeah he has amazing foot combat in the mid-lategame but so does half the rest of the cast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Clearly Relevant. Poor Leaf and Roy, always forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xator Nova Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I think Eirika and Hector should swap places (regarding PKL's list).Eirika is, imo, better than FE9!Ike due to a better offensive start, access to a more powerful effective weapon, and more availability on her endgame weapon. Hector is good early on, but he falls down hard afterwards, while Eirika gets better for mid and lategame. Edited August 7, 2014 by Xator Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) That comic is great. Yeah, Eirika's not a bottom tier lord, at all. She's definitely at the top of mixed bag. And now that I think about it, she probably might even be better than FE9!Ike. Edited August 7, 2014 by ZM© Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) hector's mid-lategame isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be unless you go super ultra hardcore ltc (which this list already isn't) eirika's early-midgame is actually pretty shitty (her earlygame is good and her lategame is good but during midgame maps like c9 or soemthing she's pretty irrelevant) Edited August 7, 2014 by CT075 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hector is far more necessary in his hardest mode than Eirika is in hers lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Why is Eirika so low? I mean, I get she's not 'da best' but I thought she was pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hector definitely crushes Eirika, in the early chapters he's actually one of your best units in difficult chapters, where Eirika (while still pretty decent) is worse than a good majority of the early game units. Eirikas mid game also sucks, she's not doubling mercs unless she's level 20 or something that only happens in drafts, and she's not very good against monsters because of swords and low strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) i'm sure there are one or two fringe cases where the horse matters because it decreases the MAG threshold needed (because you can warp them further from the throne etc) the only throne map after they promote is C20 and IIRC the throne is only a couple spaces away from the lake, so I'm pretty sure the horse doesn't make a difference, and if it does it's very very little. FE9!Ike is definitely better than Eirika; Eirika is doing nothing after a couple chapters. Ike also has a period where he's rather meh but I've never felt at any point in FE9 that Ike was a liability as a combat unit, which I can't say for Eirika. EDIT: Eirika is a decent unit all things considered but Ike is more important to FE9 than Eirika is, even not counting like Ashnard arguments or whatever. Edited August 8, 2014 by BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 i always see people get super amazing eirika in drafts but then remember that seth exists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) He ORKO's most bosses in a Warpskip dominant game. I think he's similar to Rutger or Asvel in that regard. Being locked to 1-range isn't a big deal when Javelins and Hand Axes are too heavy, and magic is weak. Swords are the best weapon type in FE1. He has exclusive access to Mercurius for lategame, which is even stronger than the Rapier, so I don't see why isn't he hax in the later chapters. Marth is the main target for warp moreso because it saves warp uses more than him actually being an awesome bosskiller. He can get the job done with a bit of rigging, but he's not even in the same league as Rutger or Asvel. The 1 range lock isn't really a knock against him against other units in fe1, but it makes him less impressive than say, Ephraim or Ragnel!Ike. Mercurious is super out of the way (You have to wait for Est to show up after several turns with it on a map that is easily warpskipped, She also doesn't show up unless you pick up Minerva, who is also out of the way.) Edited August 8, 2014 by SRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ragnell!Chrom? That's a weird choice to go by. I always thought Marth was pretty good because he could use Rapiers which have 15 effective might on most of the bosses in the game. Perhaps not on the level of Asvel or Rutger, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 OK, it's time to show how Leif is much better than Ephraim. First of all, main advantage of Ephraim is good combat. But that's nothing amazing in FE8. You have many unit with good combat (Seth, Franz, Forde, Kyle, Vanessa, Cormag, Duessel, Garcia, Ross) and most of them has more mov than him. Ephraim literally try to catch up mounted units for most of the game. And when he finally gets some mov, you already have WARP. So his stats are definitely nice, but not very useful. Now let's look on Leif. He is your most useful earlygame unit. He is doing more in first 5 chapter of his game, than Ephraim before promo (yeah, remember how much Ephraim is doing in joining chapter?). Son of Cuan is very energetic boy, so he never gets fatigued, what gives him special utility of taking every unwanted battle. Sometimes one point of fatigue mean victory or defeat. His high mov guarantees you will have use of his stats and he has highest mov indoor. He has also good 1-2 range indoor which isn't common. He get promo late, but that's not matter since he get movement before promo and his stats are very good, thanks to scrolls. You are still not convinced? Well I didn't mention movement star, leadership and supports. And of course you can just screw everything and wrapskipp halve of this game. This is FE5 The Staff Emblem, what did you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I think Eirika and Hector should swap places (regarding PKL's list). Eirika is, imo, better than FE9!Ike due to a better offensive start, access to a more powerful effective weapon, and more availability on her endgame weapon. Hector is good early on, but he falls down hard afterwards, while Eirika gets better for mid and lategame. Eirika's pretty fragile if you don't give her stat-boosters though. Plus she doesn't get a mode where she can train like Lyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I have granted never played FE5 but if you can warpskip half of FE5 (as opposed to around a quarter of FE8), isn't that a point against Leif? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 fe5 is a warpskip so why does leaf's combat prowess mean anything it's not even like you're ever lacking in bosskillers ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) fe5 is a warpskip so why does leaf's combat prowess mean anything it's not even like you're ever lacking in bosskillers ever Yeah, I know it. I agree with that. But there are few chapters, which you can't skip. And in most of these chapters Leif is doing amaiznig. So his stats are matter. And he is doing more in his game than Ephraim in FE8. Edited August 8, 2014 by Nicolas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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