School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[Refa]

just a feeeeeeeeew more hours

In my defense, instead of participating in this mafia game, I spent all night playing Radiant Historia instead. I'M SURE ECLIPSE WOULD UNDERSTAND OK. Also let's just pretend that they're like uh...Saturn hours. Yeah, hahahaha.

Also given mancer's role I don't think poly would've hammered him as scum.

Giving mafia results even when they die during the night makes sense (because that's supposed to be like, their phase or whatever), while doing the same for the day phase makes considerably less sense (it's rewarding them for being chumps); maybe would make sense if it only worked on Day 1, but I didn't see any <snip>'s in his Role PM. Plus by the same reasoning, I'd be confirmed town as well and you can't kill SB's scumread like that.

Read Rapier. I'm not impressed by Rapier's Mancer case and, well... Mancer suspected Rapier's lonely little RVS vote with confidence and claimed he's made prod dodging posts and therefore must be lurkscum, which makes me think it was scum saying factual things about their scumbuddy.. eh. Compared to the lurking accusation against Randa, this one actually makes sense. The problem:

Saying "yeah scum can park on their buddies as well" when Mancer knows Randa isn't Rapier's buddy (pretty much assuming town!Randa here) just doesn't make sense to me.

I figure Mancer was just setting Rapier up to be the mislynch for the following day; the only thing that bothers me about this otherwise totally legit theory is why he pushed BBM over Rapier at the end of yesterday. Like he had a much more valid case on Rapier than BBM and noone would've batted an eye if he voted Rapier after everyone called him out on his Randa case.

Conspiracy Theory: ScarletFlame got told to vote by his buddies earlier so that they would get the report? Will respond to Refa later, don't have a lot of time atm.

It's possible, but you'd think they'd tell him to BS some kind of reasoning. Also what do you think of Mancer calling him out as opposed to calling out anyone else? Keep in mind that scum would much rather get some easy mislynches than whatever flimsy towncred can be gained from something like that.

I'm not reading through Randa's ISO because most of it seems inconsequential to the game at large, considering the play of most people in this game. He could well be scum on PoE, especially since I'm actually town reading Refa based on what I've read (well, it's a slight townread, but a townread nonetheless).

Also also, I noticed that he kept pushing J as scum yesterday. All well and good, except he was also pushing scum!Mancer a lot too for towncred, which worked for most of the game (unrelated: not sure why BT claimed that shot when we have no confirmed doc). Wouldn't be disinterested in lynching him, but I'm gonna go with this:

##Vote: Randa

BT claimed that shot because otherwise we'd think there was an SK. Don't really have any issues with your vote, but keep the townread on me in mind.

Gun to my head, 4th scum is probably within the pool of Gorf/Randa (no, I'm still not TRing him, but I'm not very confident in this read either)/lurkers/maybe Elie or Refa?

Not sure on ITP yet. Maybe J, maybe Refa/Elie, not sure on anyone else that could be here.

BT/SB/BBM are towniest IMO.

I'm confused here. I can get the ITP read (I assume it's because you have issues with my play but my associations with scum are townie as fuck), but how am I a scum read if you just said above that you were townreading me (and I hadn't made any posts since then). Yeah, I know you later said to forget about this, but it's less the scumread on me that I care about and why you were scumreading a townread to begin with.

hmm

a read of elie's iso has me doubting my scum read on him. i'm the last one to be calling somebody vague for being short, and it's weird to think that elie was bussing prims at the time he was and NOT mancer, *considering mancer was definitely more likely to be getting lynched at the time.

*may or may not be accurate, will reread in thread to clarify.

the thing is i don't think there's enough to really townread the dude. his content seems really shady and almost... demotivated. a fair amount of the content he posts never really goes anywhere either, i'm kinda just left wondering where his head's at most of the time.

@everybody town reading elie

why?

I'm townreading him specifically because of that last vote. Honestly, Prims interactions with him are not telling in the least because I remember him advocating Junko to be vigged in FFTA. However, like you said, him doing so doesn't make sense from a scum's PoV. I get that his earlier content was pretty demotivated and kind of lazy, but there's precedent for that (see: all of Elly's recent games lol).

Rapier's logic...confuses me (the most baffling is lynching Shinori to eliminate the noise, which kind of amuses me because Shinori had made zero content posts at that point). I'll elaborate on this more in the NEXT POST (which for all our sakes hopefully takes less long to make than this one).

Also townreading Shinori because I don't even know. His issues with BBM seem kind of flawed (I can get being bothered by BBM's first post, but I don't see what the big deal about BBM prodding you was), and there's a lot of vibes and stuff (on me, Randa, and BBM, with his serious case face being reserved for Rapier), but it just seems really...honest (is that the right word). Also he'd probably wouldn't case BBM as scum considering how things are.

Also sorry in advance because there were a lot of posts that I kind of acknowledged and was like "yeah, that sure is a post 8/10" but didn't reply too because fuckdammit you know why this post took forever to make already. So if there's some point that I didn't address, then feel free to ask me about it because chances are I DO have an opinion on it and was just too lazy to actually type it down.

[MRDRHAWK]

It's mostly because PoE is a thing, and as much as I don't think you're scum, I'm not going to 100% rule that out. It's more like a null-leaning-town thing. But, like, I'm a lot closer to reading you as town than I am to reading you as scum, for what it's worth.

[eclipse]

"It's almost the end of D2 and someone's at L-1" votals

Rapier (6) - BBM, Randa, #HBC J, Poly, Shinori, #HBC Gorf

ScarletFlame (2) - SB

Poly (1) - BT.

Shinori (1) - Rapier

Not voting - ScarletFlame, Elieson, Refa

A wee bit under 24 hours remain

[Refa]

Can someone who's voting Rapier unvote? Like I don't want any accidental quickhammers before I can make my post (which could take a while longer because a winning combination of being busy and lazy at the same time).

[_J_]

I'll be around and my opinion on Rapier is pretty solid and sound at the moment.

##Unvote: Rapier

[Refa]

First thing I do on my quest to ISO Prims, Mancer, Gorf, and Rapier is to click on my own ISO link. Never change, Refa.

[spoiler=Gorf]

Prims had him as a tacked on scumread (for being a nonposter) early on, but it's not particularly telling He later questioned Gorf's position on me, but otherwise had no read on the dude. *sigh* Mancer just got mad that he voted him or something and asked the completely useless "Are you scum" question. Aside from that, he didn't make an adequate effort to respond to Gorf's read on him in the slightest. Thankfully, Gorf's end has associative reads which are worth a damn. He announces a Mancer suspicion early on, and from what BBM said, voted him at a critical point where he could've easily saved the dude. I think someone in Guitar Mafia mentioned Gorf being prone to bussing, but like with what I said about SB, this seems a bit much. And that's...pretty much it. Like some of his other reads are well substantiated (D1 read on J, D2 reads on Elieson/Randa), but otherwise it's hard for me to get anything off of him. Overall though, he's still town despite that because of aforementioned associative reads from his end.

[spoiler=Randa]

One of Prims' main points against J was that he never followed up with his read on Randa (or me, for that matter), and that he'd never ever ever support a Randa wagon. This does not help me figure out Randa's alignment. Fuck you Prims, your ISO has been useless to me. Mancer first made some legitimate points against the dude (such as his earlier posts being useless fluff), but then devolves into rolespec. If Mancer was trying to mislynch the dude, he could've done a hell of a lot better than continuing the number spec that people had called him out on. In the end, he even unvoted Randa (who he'd been tunneling up until that point) to make a bunk vote on BBM. I'm not really seeing how Randa is townie from these associative reads; if anything, his associations with Mancer remind me of dewound and Rapier from Guitar Mafia. Overall, I'd put him as scum; none of his content has really stood out to me (I can't remember a single thing that he's done on Day 2), and the number of townreads on the dude is baffling.

[spoiler=Rapier]

Thank god Mancer got lynched, I've got zero associative reads (not counting town reads) off of the other flipped scum. Anyways, Mancer complained about Rapier parking his vote on a popular wagon (setting it up as his second highest suspicion at the time), but then later went off to vote BBM instead because shut up. He later listed Rapier as a possible fourth scum despite being more sure of his scumread before. So not looking good already, but let's take a look at his actual content. Dude's first content post was perfectly fine, I could understand why he'd be voting J over Mancer (even if Mancer is flipped scum). The only problem is he doesn't really have any other reads outside of those two people.. This also explains why he'd go into Day 2 voting Shinori...from a scum's point of view. As town, I'd expect a reread to yield some actual content that bothered him; it's just...extremely lazy play on his part. Rapier also complains about Poly's case on Randa, before appeasing Poly by saying he's not scumreading Poly either; I'd totally buy a Randa/Rapier (R&R, heh) scumteam at this point. So yeah, overall I do have a scumread on the dude; I know this makes absolutely no difference to anyone considering Rapier was probably going to get lynched anyways, but fuck you my voice must be heard.

[Refa]

This was there beforehand, but SF has been lagging like crazy for me and it somehow got lost in the mix. Thanks, Obama.

##Vote: Rapier

[Randa]

First thing I do on my quest to ISO Prims, Mancer, Gorf, and Rapier is to click on my own ISO link. Never change, Refa.

[spoiler=Gorf]

Prims had him as a tacked on scumread (for being a nonposter) early on, but it's not particularly telling He later questioned Gorf's position on me, but otherwise had no read on the dude. *sigh* Mancer just got mad that he voted him or something and asked the completely useless "Are you scum" question. Aside from that, he didn't make an adequate effort to respond to Gorf's read on him in the slightest. Thankfully, Gorf's end has associative reads which are worth a damn. He announces a Mancer suspicion early on, and from what BBM said, voted him at a critical point where he could've easily saved the dude. I think someone in Guitar Mafia mentioned Gorf being prone to bussing, but like with what I said about SB, this seems a bit much. And that's...pretty much it. Like some of his other reads are well substantiated (D1 read on J, D2 reads on Elieson/Randa), but otherwise it's hard for me to get anything off of him. Overall though, he's still town despite that because of aforementioned associative reads from his end.

[spoiler=Randa]

One of Prims' main points against J was that he never followed up with his read on Randa (or me, for that matter), and that he'd never ever ever support a Randa wagon. This does not help me figure out Randa's alignment. Fuck you Prims, your ISO has been useless to me. Mancer first made some legitimate points against the dude (such as his earlier posts being useless fluff), but then devolves into rolespec. If Mancer was trying to mislynch the dude, he could've done a hell of a lot better than continuing the number spec that people had called him out on. In the end, he even unvoted Randa (who he'd been tunneling up until that point) to make a bunk vote on BBM. I'm not really seeing how Randa is townie from these associative reads; if anything, his associations with Mancer remind me of dewound and Rapier from Guitar Mafia. Overall, I'd put him as scum; none of his content has really stood out to me (I can't remember a single thing that he's done on Day 2), and the number of townreads on the dude is baffling.

[spoiler=Rapier]

Thank god Mancer got lynched, I've got zero associative reads (not counting town reads) off of the other flipped scum. Anyways, Mancer complained about Rapier parking his vote on a popular wagon (setting it up as his second highest suspicion at the time), but then later went off to vote BBM instead because shut up. He later listed Rapier as a possible fourth scum despite being more sure of his scumread before. So not looking good already, but let's take a look at his actual content. Dude's first content post was perfectly fine, I could understand why he'd be voting J over Mancer (even if Mancer is flipped scum). The only problem is he doesn't really have any other reads outside of those two people.. This also explains why he'd go into Day 2 voting Shinori...from a scum's point of view. As town, I'd expect a reread to yield some actual content that bothered him; it's just...extremely lazy play on his part. Rapier also complains about Poly's case on Randa, before appeasing Poly by saying he's not scumreading Poly either; I'd totally buy a Randa/Rapier (R&R, heh) scumteam at this point. So yeah, overall I do have a scumread on the dude; I know this makes absolutely no difference to anyone considering Rapier was probably going to get lynched anyways, but fuck you my voice must be heard.

Why am I not on the list of people you ISO'd?

Also I don't think I'll be able to get out a substantial post for a couple hours, due to class and practice so please don't quick hammer till then.

[Donald Trump]

are you calling randa a scum read because his associative read with mancer looked like dewound vs rapier in guitar? and hes done nothing in particular that stands out to you as townie? if you ask me that interaction was objectively not scummy between dewound and rapier, and thats one of the reasons that it took so long to pin em.

[Donald Trump]

out of context

randa i distinctly remember you saying you play an instrument. what do you play dawg and how well versed are you?

/out of context

[Randa]

out of context

randa i distinctly remember you saying you play an instrument. what do you play dawg and how well versed are you?/out of context

I don't remember ever ssaying anything about an instrument but I have played the violin for eight years.

[Refa]

Why am I not on the list of people you ISO'd?

I already ISO'd you before.

are you calling randa a scum read because his associative read with mancer looked like dewound vs rapier in guitar? and hes done nothing in particular that stands out to you as townie? if you ask me that interaction was objectively not scummy between dewound and rapier, and thats one of the reasons that it took so long to pin em.

That's one of the issues, yes. It's also because he makes sense as scum with Rapier whereas a lot of people kind of don't (BBM, Shinori, someone else I'm probably forgetting since I just woke up, etc.).

[Donald Trump]

I don't remember ever ssaying anything about an instrument but I have played the violin for eight years.

practice, lesson, something along those lines. one doesnt take a football "lesson" lol. thats cool as fuck ive been playing piano for like 13 years now

[Donald Trump]

refa what are some of your independent non rapier scum reads?

[Refa]

Noone. I'm reading everyone else as town except for like Poly (who's just sort of null).

[_J_]

I honestly cannot believe I read that your verdict on Randa is that he is a scum-read of yours, Refa. Like, I am honestly stunned.

[Refa]

This probably means nothing coming from me, but being needlessly snarky is helping noone. What's wrong with my read? The only townread on Randa that I've read that made any sense was the one from Gorf, and a good deal of it focused on tone and not having any issues with his content (which I obviously don't agree with).

[Refa]

Also who would you say is Rapier's scumbuddy?

[_J_]

I am not trying to come across as snarky, my apologies if I did. I guess the correct way to say I am is appalled. (really should be using .gifs to help get my point across but lol lazy)

I just do not get how you are seeing Mancer vs. Randa as SvS. That is something that I cannot see.

Let me ask this to help me clarify, do you really see them as part of the same scum-team?

[_J_]

Also who would you say is Rapier's scumbuddy?

Mancer and Prims...?

I am not lynching Rapier based on connections to the alive, but to the dead.

[Refa]

I'm voting Rapier based on that too (see: my last content post), but I'm trying to look ahead here; if Rapier flips scum, who do you think could be his scumbuddy?

I am not trying to come across as snarky, my apologies if I did. I guess the correct way to say I am is appalled. (really should be using .gifs to help get my point across but lol lazy)

I just do not get how you are seeing Mancer vs. Randa as SvS. That is something that I cannot see.

Let me ask this to help me clarify, do you really see them as part of the same scum-team?

I don't get why this is so baffling. Yes, I see the interactions as SvS; looking back I forgot to mention Randa's interactions (probably should have checked that one a little better, oh well), but the way he parked his vote on Mancer early on and didn't ever bother to seriously reanalyze it bothered me; I'd expect a townie in the same position to have way more interactions with his scumread (citation: BBM).

[charlie_]

His buddy is obviously ScarletFlame since he ignored him and gunned after Shinori who did the exact same thing as he did lol.

I should post more but I'm really lazy. How long do we have left?

[Refa]

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141105T19&p0=103&msg=End+of+D2&csz=1

Also you should answer my issues related to that.

[_J_]

We have just a little time left. I'll be around to hammer.

[charlie_]

That he should've would've given a reason as scum? It's totally possible his buddies didn't give him advice beyond telling him to vote. Mancer calling him out is null because it was never a strong push from his part iirc and it's easy to distance from an inactive buddy that way.

Isn't that slot getting inactivity modkilled anyway though lol because this is kind of ridiculous?