School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[MRDRHAWK]

He was pushing Elie all day and only really stopped when he bussed Mancer; with the way he bussed Mancer, I'm inclined to think he was trying to bus Elie for towncred much like with Mancer.

[Randa]

He was pushing Elie all day and only really stopped when he bussed Mancer; with the way he bussed Mancer, I'm inclined to think he was trying to bus Elie for towncred much like with Mancer.

We see the same picture up until Prims motivation for. I don't see Prims coming in and saying hey I'm gonna bus one of my buddy's from the start of day 1.

[Donald Trump]

^

well i can honestly see a scum prims having his sights set on snatchin the cred for bussing elie since i doubt anyone really expects to get vigged, so idk that's a faulty argument randa.

where i'm having pause is the fact that elie held strong about scumprims till the end of the Day.

Today was a miserable day and I am not in the mood to give any fucks about this game for the time being. I apologize for that, and for any insults that come out on this. Being honest, I haven't even read the thread since my last post and did a search for Elie to see what would come up.

The last thing I even remember feeling was strongest about prims being scummy. He's playing to his scum meta (something I've noticed from hosting a bunch of games with him in it) of just kinda being overly abrasive with little actual effort for genuine sarcasm-y humor...kinda like the typical passive-aggressive case that people often find me scummy for. I should probably check the votals but i'm honestly so frustrated at lots of things and i just don't have it in me to even effort that much at this particular moment. Maybe after I vent/destress in an hour or something idk

##Vote prims

by the end of the Day, when the mancer lynch basically seemed like it was GOING to happen, he up n voted his other partner. that means he'd have to have decided bussing his more-likely-to-be-lynched partner was a worse idea than throwing around the partner that'd be getting away's name even more.

@j gimme a lowdown on your read on elie. out of all the non inactives i'd lynch him first but i'm starting to doubt my scum read @_@

[#HBC Larsa]

/dead

YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIT!

/stilldead

[eclipse]

@eclipse:

Does Mancer's role trigger on the day he was lynched?

Does it ignore scumbuddies if they were on the wagon?

TEE-HEE~!

(votals going up eventually)

[Refa]

Good news, everyone! Making a post in a few hours when I can concentrate enough to make it happen (including the rereads I promised, probably one on Rapier too). If it's not moderately amazing (I make no promises of fucking amazing posts), then turbolunch me you know the drill.

[eclipse]

The "where are people" votals

Rapier (2) - BBM, Randa

Refa (2) - SB

Poly (1) - BT.

Randa (1) - Poly

Not voting - a lot of people

Roughly 47 hours remain

[Donald Trump]

Good news, everyone! Making a post in a few hours when I can concentrate enough to make it happen (including the rereads I promised, probably one on Rapier too). If it's not moderately amazing (I make no promises of fucking amazing posts), then turbolunch me you know the drill.

just a feeeeeeeeew more hours

[Rapier]

wait when did we get a third vanilla claim. we had two fakes by mancer and prims. poly now you whos the third.

Mancer was a scum goon, it's the same thing as a vanilla role-wise, though I do admit it is possible for the town to have 2 vanillas considering the numbers you gave, confirming we have 10 town players.

Guys, please, I wouldn't claim vanilla right after two of my supposed scumbuddies did the same thing.

[Randa]

Mancer was a scum goon, it's the same thing as a vanilla role-wise, though I do admit it is possible for the town to have 2 vanillas considering the numbers you gave, confirming we have 10 town players.

Guys, please, I wouldn't claim vanilla right after two of my supposed scumbuddies did the same thing.

But mancer wasn't a goon, he was a death-full cop. Or whatever you would call it.

[Randa]

oh my god. I've been reading mancer's role PM wrong the entire phase.

You are words, and these role PM are words, as well. As such, you will get the role name, role, and alignment of the person who hammers the lynch. If there's no hammer, you'll get the role name, role, and alignment of the LAST person on the lynchee's wagon.

I was reading it as mancer gets the full PM of the last person to vote him, when he is lynched. Looking at it closer he gets information for every lynch. With that in place I'm not sure clipsey would give that information to the scum team. I mean think about if mancer lived to day 4. None of the hammer voters got killed, scum has the entire game after mancer dies. This means poly isn't automatically cleared anymore. Shit now I actually have to go and read poly.

[Randa]

Okay I need to hear other thoughts on. Poly cause if it is what I think it is, he's not cleared and he's pretty scummy without the auto clear.

[charlie_]

oh right game exists

Clearing Eli off of Prims' side of the interactions is dumb (dewound called for a Randa vig shot last game, remember) but I think Eli's side of them looks better. If he wanted to save his buddy Mancer, why park on his other buddy who was the main counterwagon and If he wanted cred for it, he could've just bussed Mancer. That's the telling part of the interactions imo.

##Unvote

##Vote: ScarletFlame

I feel like I'm in full coast mode tbh but honestly the way he phrased his post ("So I don't forget") makes me think that his buddies told him to go vote on Mancer to secure a report on the townie who hammered.

My read on Poly is sadly just: It's Poly. Randa, how is that any more op than having a rolecop scan 3 people who don't die?

[Randa]

Well since you brought up role cop, it's more looking at it like any other investigative role. If you get vigged after checking some then your team doesn't get the information. It's the same logic right now.

[BBM]

Well since you brought up role cop, it's more looking at it like any other investigative role. If you get vigged after checking some then your team doesn't get the information. It's the same logic right now.

Except this exact same thing happened in Healer Mafia and Vhaltz the scum Rolecop got results on the night he was vigged, and they were communicated to the rest of the team in the scum QT by Eclipse. Therefore while I can't say for sure, I would be inclined to lean towards Mancer getting results on his own lynch.

sorry for not being around; I had classes until late and then when I came home I was tired and fell asleep without checking the game.

tbh though I don't have much to contribute; I agree with SB that Elie has no reason to vote Prims over Mancer at deadline when the latter was definitely going to get lynched. The only reason I'm not completely giving him a pass is that he doesn't have enough posts past earlygame for me to get a feel of his alignment when you discount the Prims interactions. So he's kind of in the same boat as Poly where he's not clear but I wouldn't lynch him over the other lurkers.

[Randa]

Okay so pretty that clears poly of being maf and I'm not gonna bother trying to find the ITP yet cause I still don't know what it even is.

[Rapier]

Yay! Scum team with Prims carrying please! Lol!

THERE'S SOME CONSPIRACY GOING ON RIGHT THERE GUYS

he knew everything

I'm townreading Jay, Randa and BT, since the former was hard tunneled by Prims in D1 and the latter shot Prims (he could be lying about his vig claim, but then we'd confirm it on D3 - if there are no second deaths, then we have no SK. If we do, then BT is the SK). The rest seems cool enough/I don't remember how they played on D1 and I'm too lazy to read.

I don't see Poly's case on Randa. Scum!Randa doesn't make much sense considering his back and forths with Mancer during early D1. Why would scum bring so much attention to themselves on purpose? It doesn't look like maf vs maf, and I think someone like Prims would've criticized their idea if Mancer and Randa really did plan this out. This is not very plausible. He also completely misses the point about J: It is not his content that makes him innocent, but Prims' hard tunneling on him for the entirety of D1.

That said, Poly doesn't read as scum to me, just lazy. Voting Randa at this time is a bad idea for scum trying to survive, since Mancer's interactions with Randa makes it unlikely that he'll be lynched this day. Bringing suspicion upon J also seems unproductive because of Prims' interactions with him. Claiming vanilla after his two supposed scumbuddies did the same thing doesn't seem like a very smart thing for scum to do. Thus, I'm reading Poly as lazy!town.

---

I'd rather lynch Shinori this day. We have zero interactive reads about him and he hasn't showed up in like forever, it will be better to lynch him now than keep him alive until later and have a tough time reading him.

##Vote: Shinori

[_J_]

Hmm, I'm in my Gender Studies class right now and incredibly bored of the topic material so I feel like playing mafia and getting really into this game mainly because I think I have the game solved. I don't know I am going to be re-reading with connections in mind. I am also going to be trying to go after someone in a second. So excuse me for a bit. If someone comes into the thread and wants to talk I would be happy to have a conversation with them.

P.S. @Gorf: I see your questions and will get to them shortly. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten.

[_J_]

Pg. 3, Massive disconnection from Mancer+Refa *Probably not connected on team*

Pg. 4 Why did Mancer slow down the BBM wagon? He wasn’t close to being lynched. Looks like a way to score some easy town cred on a TownBBM flip and looks like Mancer has some more knowledge than others (which is true since he was mafia. This points to BBM being more likely town.

Pg. 4.(cont.) Prims’ BT vote for RVS adds more weight to BT shooting him and therefore a disconnect. BT+Prims based on current common knowledge from D2 means they are not on a team.

Pg. 4 (cont.) Was Rapier’s Randa vote more about adding fuel to the wagon or just hopping on a quicker wagon that is forming on a towny since the only other wagons at the time were BBM(RVS) and Prims (RVS). The reason I ask this is because Rapier voted exactly after BT’s pushing of Randa which seemed the realest of the pushes so far and I would assume Rapier would know that. Henceforth, I think that Rapier may be a tad sketch on that Randa vote.

Pg. 5 Curious! Poly comes in and actually lays a vote on Randa and also tries to justify it as a real vote with when he says “He’s made the least amount of sense to me.” This looks like another hop on vote for poor reasoning in RVS and seems to try to add weight to the Randa wagon which didn’t really have much legs to stand on.

Even on a readthrough…I am skimming Refa’s posts because I do not agree with a lot of the logic being presented. I would say that he could be a pick for like the fourth scum or indy, but I do not know if I am sold on him being scum. I just think a lot of what he has been saying and doing is wrong and townies can be that way as well so it’s really no big deal.

Pg. 5-6. Sara is feeling town based on her responses to things and her explanation on the BBM situation that SB would not let go lol. Both come across as townies trying to gauge and react and actually scum-hunt. Nothing SB has done really makes me think he is scum especially even though he changes his vote a lot, it has a purpose behind it and shows that he is looking for scum. Sara also feels like she has a purpose to finding scum but it’s a little less than SB.

Pg. 7 Holy balls that blatant disconnect to Randa from Mancer. Like this isn’t even like SvS because of the way Mancer is going to push Randa. I would like to make note of his FoS on Rapier but not on Poly. Could go both ways since I am seeing both Rapier/Poly as a possibility for scum-mates to Mancer/Prims. Mainly this sticks out to me because he is like “Randa vote is out of nowhere” which goes two ways. One, why does it matter if you are pushing Randa yourself? Or two, Why not FoS Poly as well since Poly actually came in out of nowhere and gave literally 0 good reason for their vote on Randa. Sloppy case on second look, just thought it was sloppy town but now that it is known he is mafia, well this easier it seems.

Pg. 7 (cont.) Prims’ scum team consists of J (town), Ellie, Mancer(scum*buddies*) and nonposter (throws Gorf’s name in). Since we know he threw in a scum-mate already in here I doubt that he would put also Ellie when he knew that I was town *from my eyes, I understand others not knowing this 100%* so I actually lean towards giving Sara more points about being town. I also believe Prims was telling the truth behind a non-poster being scum so I would actually say that due to PoE and Occam’s Razor, Sara is more likely to be town over not.

Pg. 8 BBM finally posted content and it was just a meta reason to vote Mancer. Plus he also backs Prims up regarding his push on me which gives BBM some minus points as well. Weak reasoning to hop on the Mancer wagon but also siding with flipped scum does not help. I do not think these actions are inherently scummy in itself but compared to my town reads, BBM is very weak and just a null read for me. Could go either way.

Pg. 9 Only thing of relevance is the J vs. Prims argument is here, Larsa being really towny but loldead, and Refa just droning on about how his J vote isn’t misplaced and him reading Mancer as town due to him believing he knows his role which leads me to believe he is not a part of the same side as Mancer because that is just….odd scum-play if you are that passionate about believing someone is crumbing a PR/Role especially when Mancer never really did crumb a role. Refa is reading as misguided town.

Pg. 10, SB gets major town points for his 181. Like probably the easiest town-readable post so good job on that. SB like shot up high on my town-list especially with all the current knowledge that has been said. He says J is more looking town. Prims is nasty. Larsa is reading as town, BBM is weird and also Mancer is still scum to him. This all flows naturally, does not feel forced, and also looks towny. The fact that 4/5 of his reads are proven correct *in my mind, 3/5 in everyone else’s* then SB can be town.

Pg. 10 (cont.) Gorf comes in and makes a really null large post. Didn’t get much vibes either way from him. He’s in the pile with BBM of nulls.

Pg. 13!!! Bingo, I found who I am going after. In the finals hours before Mancer comes in and says that he is scum. Rapier comes in saying that his top two scum-picks are J and Mancer, but who does he choose to even out the wagons? He votes J. *I really wish I was around to retort with a PW .gif…* However, I will say that because of this move from Rapier it shows something because he says “I’d rather lynch J over Mancer…..a J lynch seems more unlikely with….##Vote: HBC J….Voting Mister Jay anyway, since he’s the best choice. If it becomes impossible to lynch him, I’ll switch to Mancer.” This looks like a scum-mate trying to get credit on a scum-Mancer lynch if he does end up switching and being able to just go “Lol wrong on J *grrr*” but still try to get a townie lynched over his scum-buddy. Rapier’s 258 is really important to go into as to why I find him as scum and could dissect it more if people want, but I feel Rapier is the scummiest after the current actions that have happened.

This is the end of my D1 notes since the rest of the posts were between Randa/Larsa and Mancer/Prims which ¾ of them are confirmed and ¼ is pretty much confirmed town at this point to me. That means it’s time to vote!

##Vote: Rapier

[_J_]

Cliff-notes to J's reads:

Town: J, BT, Sara, SB, Randa, Refa

Null: Gorf, BBM

Scum: Rapier, Poly

Can't have reads on: ScarletFlame, Shinori

@Gorf: I'll get to you later since I do have questions but I am tired of mafia since I just did a full re-read.

[BT.]

sort-of-a-prod, I wanted Poly to respond to what was obviously me challenging his case. I've had a busy day today and won't be around for much of tomorrow so it's not entirely the gamestate's fault that I haven't done much today.

[Rapier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMnrl0tmd3k

I don't know why I am listening to this, like a hipster.

In the finals hours before Mancer comes in and says that he is scum. Rapier comes in saying that his top two scum-picks are J and Mancer, but who does he choose to even out the wagons? He votes J. *I really wish I was around to retort with a PW .gif…* However, I will say that because of this move from Rapier it shows something because he says “I’d rather lynch J over Mancer…..a J lynch seems more unlikely with….##Vote: HBC J….Voting Mister Jay anyway, since he’s the best choice. If it becomes impossible to lynch him, I’ll switch to Mancer.” This looks like a scum-mate trying to get credit on a scum-Mancer lynch if he does end up switching and being able to just go “Lol wrong on J *grrr*” but still try to get a townie lynched over his scum-buddy. Rapier’s 258 is really important to go into as to why I find him as scum and could dissect it more if people want, but I feel Rapier is the scummiest after the current actions that have happened.

I find this logic particularly funny. If I had voted Mancer instead, you'd say I am scum who tried to earn towncred. Since I voted you instead and actually followed my reads until the end instead of swaying them to whichever direction benefits me the most, you say I am scum who tried to divert attention from Mancer (when a lynch was pretty much consolidated on him, so this is not the case) and get towncredit on a Mancer buss by switching in the end (which I never did, because I specified that I wouldn't be there for phase end).

In any case, it is impossible for me to defend myself, because whichever conclusion we take by using your logic leads to me being scum. I'd be scum if I had voted Mancer/you/anyone else. This is crazy, excuse me for being bold.

[Rapier]

It is also funny how you stopped reading the game after you found someone to consolidate a lynch on. What about the rest of D2? Are you more worried about lynching whoever you find as a good candidate or read the game and pick the best candidate? Are you Independent?

I'd rather lynch Shinori to eliminate the noise, so we can have a clearer read of the game later on. Keeping an inactive player alive for too long makes it hard to read them when we are near [or in] MYLO (funny thing, I am sheeping what town!Prims did in Guitar Mafia, where I was... scum. But hey this makes sense!).

[charlie_]

Why is Shinori worse than ScarletFlame, who you're completely ignoring?

[MRDRHAWK]

Poly: Go over Mancer and Randa interactions, then go over your vote again.

Considering how Prims hardbussed Mancer during the second half of D1, I'm not discounting the notion that it may have been bussing by Randa. Although, that'd be pretty ballsy for Randa to do right away considering his track record as scum, so hmm.

Not liking Rapier right now, will have to reread him later.