CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Paperblade]

Dormio's case was that kirsche was being intentionally vague

Mancer got on Dormio's case, but I thought it was weird that he got confused about what kirsche meant? It struck me as odd

Shin thing is kind of a tangent, I think Shin gets more suspicion in general because of his attitude/approach and it makes hard for me (and others) to read him

Also gonna go do homework [i[on a Friday[/i] so goodbye goodbye, goodbye goodbye, goodbye goodbye

[Dormio]

Quick question for BBM while I'm alt tabbed.

So, it's like, outside of my RVS case why am I scum?

[Percivalé]

Blaergh whatever I'm probably being paranoid for no good reason too early in the game

Like I said it's not as important as the other scumreads I have anyway

BBM, would you vote Shin? That post felt like a cop-out to me and lol I said that term twice now whatever

[Percivalé]

The kirsche vote still bugs me because there isn't actually scum intent in what kirsche did; Dormio was making a way bigger deal out of it then it needed to be. Yeah scum can be vague but there was no reason for scum to be vague in that context. People don't ED1 claim Miller unless it's been given to them as a fake- it's a role that's used too often. The Shin vote is okay so he's getting better I guess, but it bothers me that people are giving him a free pass for something that is not townie in ANY case, because a few extra hours of non-RVS on Day 1 don't really make that much of a difference. And it's even worse in Dormio's case because that's just how he plays all the time. It would be like people giving cred to Elie for doing dumb stuff to get us out of RVS, for example (not really an up-to-date example but whatever).

Reread Shin; I agree with the case but have nothing of note to add there so I don't particularly see a point in voting there right now. I'd rather try to get Marth to post more. But he's probably sleeping right now, sigh.

bbl shower

The bold in question is what I think is scummy

Sorry for quoting the whole post but mobile sucks lol

[Grace]

Votals 1.2: The Help I need more sleep Votals

Dormio (4): Mitsuki, Refa, MancerNecro, Shin

Randa (3): Reinfleche, dirge of swans, Paperblade

MancerNecro (3): Sunwoo, eclipse, SB

Shin (3): Dormio, kirsche, Quote

Paperblade (2): Bluedoom, Randa

kirsche (1): Euklyd

Bluedoom (1): BBM

Not Voting (5): Da Bear, Junk, Polydeuces, Shinori, Larsa

There are 56 hours and 8 minutes left in the phase. With 21 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Shin]

Shin thing is kind of a tangent, I think Shin gets more suspicion in general because of his attitude/approach and it makes hard for me (and others) to read him

I'll just pretend because it's that I'm so amazing that people can't comprehend me, being confusing is a far less interesting explanation.

BBM puts what I was trying to say about Dormio's self-meta here. It felt like he was pushing himself as town based on meta rather than it being a null point.

Dormio actually makes RVS cases as town too (I haven't played with town!Dormio for a while okay) but as he himself said, he does it as scum too. This is how he plays, so really, don't give him towncred for being the first one to start stuff.

I still think Dormio's case wasn't great, but he's not the only thing in this game, so I feel like talking about something else.

A lot of the game haven't been memorable so far, I don't even know who if half the players are playing (ISO's please!). Note to self, I should really start posting chronologically rather than jumping about.

I'm feeling kinda mixed about BBM, although I normally feel good about him when he's scum, I swear. I feel like he's agreeing on a lot of cases, but at the same time there are some he's dispelling, like the Paperlurkscum thing. Like, Marth's vote on Paper is really weak. Which begs me to question why I didn't notice it before.

I don't quite get Quote's priorities either, their stance on Paper confuses me and I can't quite follow the logic. The question to BBM if he'd vote me seems a little pressuring, it seems like an odd way to ask what BBM thinks of me, especially considering he's already said it. The Dormio/kirsche dynamics are confusing me too, but there's not much to it and I don't think I can get a case of alignment from it. Still, it seems Dormio's just about dropped any kirsche suspicion and kirsche is backing Dormio.

##Unvote

##Vote: Quote

I'm still wading the waters, but I'm finding their posts difficult to follow. From what I read, they'd be happy with a Mancer lynch and what seems to be a Paperblade lynch (although I'm not sure if this is just a joke). The defense of Dormio and the scumread of Mancer seems really graspy. To put things short, it just feels like they want a few choices to pick from in case one of the lynches happens.

[Shin]

Rage ninja'd by like everyone, that's what I get for doing the washing up whilst posting.

[Junk]

I'll just pretend because it's that I'm so amazing that people can't comprehend me, being confusing is a far less interesting explanation.

BBM puts what I was trying to say about Dormio's self-meta here. It felt like he was pushing himself as town based on meta rather than it being a null point.

I still think Dormio's case wasn't great, but he's not the only thing in this game, so I feel like talking about something else.

A lot of the game haven't been memorable so far, I don't even know who if half the players are playing (ISO's please!). Note to self, I should really start posting chronologically rather than jumping about.

I'm feeling kinda mixed about BBM, although I normally feel good about him when he's scum, I swear. I feel like he's agreeing on a lot of cases, but at the same time there are some he's dispelling, like the Paperlurkscum thing. Like, Marth's vote on Paper is really weak. Which begs me to question why I didn't notice it before.

I don't quite get Quote's priorities either, their stance on Paper confuses me and I can't quite follow the logic. The question to BBM if he'd vote me seems a little pressuring, it seems like an odd way to ask what BBM thinks of me, especially considering he's already said it. The Dormio/kirsche dynamics are confusing me too, but there's not much to it and I don't think I can get a case of alignment from it. Still, it seems Dormio's just about dropped any kirsche suspicion and kirsche is backing Dormio.

##Unvote

##Vote: Quote

I'm still wading the waters, but I'm finding their posts difficult to follow. From what I read, they'd be happy with a Mancer lynch and what seems to be a Paperblade lynch (although I'm not sure if this is just a joke). The defense of Dormio and the scumread of Mancer seems really graspy. To put things short, it just feels like they want a few choices to pick from in case one of the lynches happens.

how is this scummy though?

also reading still you all post to much.

[Percivalé]

Shin I literally don't understand what you are talking about lol.

Like I get how the way I word things might be confusing but your last point is like... ?

I... I have listed who I think is scummy, and add BBM to that slightly because I think he's said scummy things. Everyone else I either haven't read, am null on, or are townreads I don't wanna out

What's scummy about having a select few scumreads??? What do you want from me

Like if anything I think YOU'RE the one grasping here and am happy keeping my vote on you

[Shin]

how is this scummy though?

also reading still you all post to much.

That bolded line in particular is more of a null point.

Quote, you misunderstand, I know that you've listed who you think is scummy. My main issue that I cannot see any conviction in either your Mancer or Paper reads, despite you seemingly being cool with either of their lynches. I'd also appreciate if you lowered you tone, you're coming across as rather aggressive.

[Percivalé]

Also the paperblade thing was me being paranoid because I thought he was acting like he always acts as scum I haven't played in a while

I feel it kinda less so with his latest content

So my conclusion is: you are a scumlord

[Percivalé]

Sorry if I sound aggressive I dont even k ow how I am I just say things

I'm trying to treat this game as less serious because yeah

I'm not being serious

Just go with it

My point is I can't vote two people at once. If I coulf I would be voting you and mancer

[Percivalé]

Can we not get on me for my tone I swear I'm not trying antagonize anyone or be mean or passive aggressive on purpose I'm just trying to be silly idk how else to play the game can we just not get on this please

I don't wanna get super serious or else I will start getting upset and mean for real

[Junk]

Well, I'm back from my League game and I'm going to ##Unvote and ##Vote: Dormio.

I don't like how his case on kirsche and I agree that it sounds kind of forced.

I took kirsche's post as a joke one. Even if kirsche were to deny being a Miller later on, I don't think it will really affect anything. Like, whatever kirsche claims now (either that he is a Miller or not), he can't really change or alter his claim later on. The whole thing about sitting on the fence regarding the Miller claim reads as bullshit to me.

Apart from the bad case, I don't like how he's proceeding through the day. Asking Boron "Do you have any points of interest?" seems like a way to appear to be contributing when he's not really doing anything.

I don't get this at all considering dormio had the first serious vote of the game. What did you want him to contribute on anyway?

Also why couldn't kirsche say the claim was a joke?

I also dislike how mancer keeps on flip flopping on his dormio read. He quotes refa's post saying why he didn't think dormio was scum and says he agrees on it

but in his next post he seems to be scumreading dormio?

you are being really vague yourself, Dormio.

Explain this please more coming up [spoiler=have this in a spoiler because apparently I can't post anymore words?]Anyway I don't get his post #47 because it seems more like a question but then in his post #64 he votes him for what he was aking for?

[Junk]

I don't get this at all considering dormio had the first serious vote of the game. What did you want him to contribute on anyway?

Also why couldn't kirsche say the claim was a joke?

I also dislike how mancer keeps on flip flopping on his dormio read. He quotes refa's post saying why he didn't think dormio was scum and says he agrees on it

but in his next post he seems to be scumreading dormio?

err that didn't go as planned

[Percivalé]

Ugh sorry I reread my post and I did kind of sound like an ass my bad

I'll tone it down but sorry if it happens again

[Sunwoo]

Too many posts to respond to. I'm not feeling it!

Okay, so, reading through the new content that I'd missed and through Dormio's ISO as I said I would. I still stand by my earlier comment that Dormio's vote on kirsche didn't feel scummy and that I don't think scum would've drawn attention to themselves the way he did. I don't agree with Shin's vote on Dormio (I don't feel he was skirting issues or using self-meta as a defense, but rather responding to BBM who brought it up in the first place), but nor do I agree with Dormio's vote on Shin. I don't feel that Shin's vote was the worst on the wagon, plus Shin feels like Shin to me - as in, not scummy.

Refa feels kind of off to me. His vote is still on Dormio, but I have no idea what he feels about Dormio now. His latest posts feel a bit like "empty noise", where he's not really saying a lot of relevant stuff, or he doesn't seem to be doing anything productive with his replies. Reads apathetic scummy.

I actually got a worse vibe from Paper's initial post, most likely from the second part of that post where he says "at the same time the case seems stupid but apparently we have meta shit". I feel that while his second post has valid points, his ISO also contains too much "empty noise" like Refa's. Basically, I feel that have a low content ratio for the amount of posting they've done.

Randa, please don't have over 100 posts in D1 alone, thanks. His first six or so posts are irrelevant and basically joking around. I think what he was doing was replying to stuff as he was reading (as opposed to reading everything and making a neat post at the end), but I do feel that it's extremely lackluster that this is a rather poor conclusion for everything that had happened. Do you have any opinions on anyone else you want to make clear? Also, clarify this for me because I'm confused: is Shin scummy for his vote? You seem to say that it's opportunistic in one post, but that you can understand his vote in a previous post, so …

Not sure how to describe my thoughts on BBM. I have a slight negative read on him that I can't explain well, maybe it's because it feels like he's clinging to Dormio suspicion even though the basis of it was faulty.

I don't agree with Mancer's case on Dormio, and I don't understand why his case on Dormio is still stronger than the suspicions he is getting from Randa. When you get back, Mancer, please tell us why your suspicions on Dormio are still present/stronger than other suspicions, or if your reads change when you get back explain why.

##Vote: Refa

Refa >= Randa > Paperblade >>> Mancer = BBM

If you're not mentioned in the paragraphs above, I don't have problems with you right now.

[MancerNecro]

I just woke up and basically skimmed through the last few pages. Expect a proper post after I actually read through everything properly but here are a few responses to some common questions:

I thought Dormio was scummy for his case on kirsche being vague. Regardless of whatever kirsche meant by his post or planned to do, I found Dormio's case really forced. The timing for it seemed wrong as well, as mentioned in one of my previous posts.

Regarding flopping around, I was only agreeing with Randa that scum would rather just lurk and let RVS last slightly longer without drawing attention to themselves. However, this doesn't change the earlier reads that I had had on Dormio. This might be a town-read-reason to Randa but it's not to me. It's just a point I was agreeing with.

Past that point when the Randa suspicions came up, I was already too sleepy and tired to focus and follow the game fully (because of my meds but I think some of you know that already).

Going to ##Unvote for now pending a reread of the thread (that's going to happen right now).

[Mitsuki]

If the spam keeps up I may request for a replacement. It might just be that I had a terrible day today, but reading everything has been painful and thinking about mafia makes me angry and frustrated.

I think Dormio's case on Shin is accurate, specially the point where he says Shin is accusing him of using self-meta. What do you expect someone to do to defend themselves when meta is brought up against them?

Same goes for Eclipse in this post, let me quote the fragment since the post itself is quite long:

My strongest objections to Dormio are his arguments against meta

Also, just to clarify, I think Dormio is using arguments against the meta that's being brought up against him, not against meta in general. Do you think otherwise, or did you mean that?

Not sure what to think about Dormio myself, some of his posts read as town and others as scum, mostly gut. I'm leaning towards town now though, the post where he cases Shin gives me the same feeling than his posts on NotV2 (recent MotK game).

I don't like Mancer's post here. I think it's scummy how he's trying to pass hypocresy as a scumtell without giving an explanation on it. I also don't like the tone of some of Mancer's posts.

I also agree with Kirsche on Randa (post link), I think Randa's post was easy content and I agree that town would probably look into things a little more.

##unvote

##Vote: Shin

Shin > Eclipse > Mancer > Randa, I think

[Zkirsche]

I was referring to his "I don't know what you're saying" responses.

I interpreted that as "I don't understand what you mean" more than anything else.

Also do you have an opinion/anything to say not named Dormio (one line going "wow kirsche is awesome" is not enough)? BBM is guilty of this of this as well and I'm just tired of seeing his name crop up.

Over here, being cryptic is seen as being scummy. I have no idea how that happened.

Not just cryptic, things need to be spelled out else you're the biggest scumlord in the universe.

Wrt the rest of this post, I don't really understand the Randa suspicion, what do you mean by not wanting to work with your top town read? Sheeping townreads isn't necessarily a good idea.

I forgot to say this earlier but everybody going 'man Paper is lurking he's playing to scum meta' is being lame

Who did this aside from Bizz? Also this defense feels kind of unneccessary, there's only like 1 serious vote on PB and the rest are mostly just throwaway comments on how his vote was bad. The dormio stuff also feels overblown, who is saying Dormio is townie just for pushing us out of RVS? Whoever they are (if they exist) aren't memorable enough to make everyoen give Dormio a free pass.

The marth vote is ok, but Marth did mention that he felt the vote was just a filler vote and therefore implied that he thought PB wouldn't make that kind of vote. It's kind of an easy vote to make, it's not going to convince the masses but nor is it going to face the wrath of a town. It's just not going to come into the limelight, and is just going to become outdated the moment Marth comes back in and makes more comments.

I feel like he's agreeing on a lot of cases, but at the same time there are some he's dispelling, like the Paperlurkscum thing.

Wtf is this logic. "I feel like he's agreeing with some cases, and disagreeing with others". How does this indicate alignment at all?

The question to BBM if he'd vote me seems a little pressuring

That's because it is pressuring, Bizz's attacking suspicious play.

The Dormio/kirsche dynamics are confusing me too, but there's not much to it and I don't think I can get a case of alignment from it. Still, it seems Dormio's just about dropped any kirsche suspicion and kirsche is backing Dormio.

This entire bit is padding. In fact I feel most of the post is padding, the last line is just dumb before clarification, and even then it's a weak point. All your cases are graspy, padded out, based on ill-thought out logic or all of the above.

Should really lynch here guys.

Boron: Can you at least comment on the Shin cases rather than going "Shin's just being Shin". Why is Randa's conclusion that PB's vote was bad a poor one?

I'm *ok* to lynch Mancer but they clearly don't even reread their posts and what mafioso does that. Not convinced he's not just flailing town until we see something that isn't Dormio related. PB's recent posts are ok and fairly reasonable (still disagree wrt Randa), Quote is obvtown.

Shin > BBM >> Mancer

[MancerNecro]

I don't get the Paperblade case. Bluedoom, I actually think that given how much had happened by the time he had made his first case, I think that his first post is pretty justified. Given, I don't know Paperblade's meta so I can't really comment on that.

@SB: Making the first non-RVS vote doesn't mean that he's posted a lot of content. It just means he's the first person to have a serious vote. Furthermore, his posts right after that have either been a complete reiteration of his case on kirsche or prodding other players needlessly (mostly Boron but oh well). ##Vote: SB. right now because I don't really like his interpretation of Dormio's posts and I feel that he is scum trying to come up with an excuse to move onto one of the potential wagons (on me. Yeah, I admit, I get mislynched a lot, lol).

[Zkirsche]

Double cut.

Mancer's post is ok.

Mitsuki why is eclipse your second biggest scumread? Is it just the meta thing?

[Zkirsche]

Mancer stop it.

[charlie_]

"You are not allowed to think that Dormio is not scum." Okay. Why do I care about wagoning D1 as scum when it's less than 24 hours into the day?

Other stuff coming soon.

[Sunwoo]

Boron: Can you at least comment on the Shin cases rather than going "Shin's just being Shin". Why is Randa's conclusion that PB's vote was bad a poor one?

I can understand why people are voting Shin, and I believe I already expressed disagreement with his vote and reasonings for said vote on Dormio. The thing is, I just don't find it scummy, especially coming from Shin, so while I can see why people are voting him I don't agree with it. I do think Dormio's initial vote on Shin was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction (which has been pointed out earlier by another player), but I can still see the reasoning behind it.

Also, I just reread the sentence you're referring to regards to Randa, and I screwed up the wording of that sentence by a lot. It's not that I think his conclusion that Paper's vote was bad is a poor one, but that I think it's weak that it's the ONLY real conclusion he has. Randa was obviously reading the thread and commenting on other stuff, so why is his vote for Paperblade the only thing he felt he had to "conclude?" Did he have any solid reads or suspicions on other players or reasons why?