CYOU'RE - Game Over

[riariadne]

They changed their display name since the start of the game

[Dormio]

Game is hard.

[Dormio]

Anyway, first, Da Bear.

Really, there isn't all that much to say about him.

Has done basically nothing throughout the game, apparently had the ability to give the number of town:non-town to somebody else N0.

Meh, don't care whether or not he gets lynched but I guess I wouldn't actively push him right now.

[Dormio]

Eclipse is apparently a doublevoter. Not that I particularly care, but it's a thing I guess.

Anyway, I'm okay with him for now I guess. Whatever.

[Dormio]

Don't really care about Mitsuki/J's slot either.
Would like details about how the slot apparently lost its power though.

[Dormio]

I guess I'm more okay with Eurykin's content than Junk's.

And I don't really feel like pursuing Euklyd either right now.

[Dormio]

That leaves kirsche and SB. (And Polydeuces/Slartibartfast once I get those ISOs working)

I actually have a pretty bad feeling about SB. It's just been this little thing that's been nagging at me for a while but I couldn't really figure out what it was exactly.

Well, whatever.

##Vote SB

This post really makes me worry.

Like, I mean, PoE sure. But it's like I really don't like how it's done.

I mean, the only people left on SB's list are the lurkers who aren't really likely at all to post?
It's like, if there's no opposition, easy (mis)lynches?

I don't really know how to explain myself better but I really don't like this post.

Like why does SB have a townread on Polydeuces? Polydeuces didn't even really post.

SB kind of gives reasoning in this post but I'm not really buying into it.

I just feel like some of the clears that SB gives in order to have his easy lurker PoE list is kind of convoluted and forced.

Another example of this is how SB gives Mitsuki a clear based on roles.

Except, you know, SB himself was kind of the person saying that Mitsuki shouldn't be cleared based on her role alone in this post.

After Mancer's flip, SB still wants to see Mitsuki lynched here and he continued to push Mitsuki (example) until the post mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph where SB decides to give Mitsuki a clear based on roles.

Like I said before, some of SB's clears seem really convoluted and forced as he tries to get his lurker list.

[eclipse]

Curse you people and your longish posts!

Mostly better. Now, for a few things:

- "Safe" parts would be something like Shinori claiming watcher.

- When I see an overreaction to a point ("Are you scum?" "GO FUCK YOURSELF!"), that looks scummy. Reread what you said about the BBM point - something in there was completely unnecessary, and had nothing to do with the game. That's what caught my attention.

- Otherwise, don't mind the rest of that.

YO DORMIO, use this for Baldrick's ISO

Looks like I need to get kirsche's attention, since apparently he'd rather watch as opposed to actually build a case. Also, why are two lurkers up there, and are you THAT convinced that Dormio is a godfather?

J, you read Mitsuki's ISO because it contains who had a scumread - before she subbed out, she responded to some of those.

##Unvote

##Vote: kirsche

THIS is how to push someone. Not with some scattered statements in one place and a vote on someone who hasn't shown up right now - I'm here, and you're free to change your vote to a lurker if my arguments change your mind.

I just realized that the reason why I'm having a problem with reads is because three people haven't posted, J just subbed in, and I have no idea what Euklyd's trying to get at. Of the rest, I've placed my vote on two, and I'm not scumreading Dormio/SB/myself. Euklyd said something last phase which I missed, but I can't tell what he's claiming - this will drastically affect my read on him.

[charlie_]

@eclipse, what happened when Mitsuki used her Invoker role on you and the night started? This is important.

[charlie_]

(I have other content coming but I may have figured something out.)

[Baldrick]

@eclipse

I can see how you took my response as "GO FUCK YOURSELF", but I was only trying to be witty. I swear it sounded more light-hearted in my head.

So is Euklyd saying an Invoker who can watch and a watcher would cc each other? If so, I don't think so, imo it's like there being a role and a joat who can use that role.

Let's ignore Mitsuki's role/vanillasation. What do you think of the cases on Mitsuki's content? So that you don't have to trawl through the ISO's looking for them, SB, Marth, A Handsome Man.

##unvote

##vote: Euklyd

Since the start of D3, he's had reads on Mitsuki and Dormio, the latter discarded due to the cop report, and was only voting Shinori for that reason. He's done no scumhunting since then, and is currently "reading everyone active as town or null".

@kirsche; did I misread what you said here? For the Mitsuki stuff, fair enough.

Have to reread SB next to see if I like Dormio's case.

[charlie_]

ORAS happened.

Dormio, the people left on my PoE lists are lurkers yeah, but that's just kind of how things happened and I'm not gonna give . And yeah there's not really much in the way of details there because it was what I put in my notes while I thought about things after the night started, rather than trying to flesh things out, then didn't because my motivation took a nosedive.

Expanding on the Poly meta read (which wasn't at all part of what was linked), I think I remember Poly complaining once or twice about never rolling scum in non-anon NOC over skype so I would've expected him to be more motivated than he was, at least at the start of the game, if he ended up rolling it. Instead we have a sub-out at this point so yeah. There was another part to this before iirc, but I've forgotten what it was. On Baldrick's side of things, I was kind of anxious at first because his content was kind of unexceptional for someone who just subbed in (I figured he'd have more to say) but he's picked up recently so I don't really have those issues with him now.

I'll admit that I'm less sold on the Mitsuki clear now that we have 2 flipped scum with Mitsuki's role parts (and her claiming to lose her role the day that scum loses the watcher) and Larsa's incredibly obvious role, but I think I've thought of something that'll 100% prove whether or not Mitsuki faked the vanillaise thing on her way out, and if we do that I'm pretty sure her alignment will become obvious. Will detail this in the next post so that people don't miss it in case of skimming a wall.

Also where's the scum intent in me clearing Mitsuki/J and Poly/Baldrick? If you don't think I'm buddies with them, why is it bad for me to do it? And in Mitsuki's case in particular, why would I push my entire scumteam in a game where I could easily get SK'd and just waste any towncred I get from them?

@eclipse, why is kirsche scummy for pushing bear when I'm basically sat here for this phase not pushing anyone hard, but saying that I would probably push the bear or Larsa slot?

I reread Euklyd and he's now null leaning town, I don't feel like he would try and say "idk if we can trust BBM" if he was just going to nightkill him anyway? It looks more like town paranoia and I don't think scum would really need to try for a smear campaign on BBM if they were just going to nightkill him anyway, since it was probably just going to draw more attention to himself than needed? It's still not a strong read but it's a thing.

prims pls get conq in for larsa

[Baldrick]

I note SB and Euklyd are using pretty much the same reasoning to reach opposite conclusions on Mitsuki. This is why I don't really care for this rolespec.

Don't really get how Mitsuki going from SB's biggest read N2 to "probtown" early D4 is him being "less sold on the Mitsuki clear", but if he's still got more to say on that I'll wait.

[Prims]

Conq has graveyard access RIP

[charlie_]

i don't see why that should stop conq from playing

and oh right i forgot to post this thing

J, since I see you viewing now, post ##Invoke SB to track Larsa. Since Larsa's role is obviously a Loudmouth, and the scum roleblocker is dead, we can see if Mitsuki faked the vanillaise or not. If she did, then she's obviously scum, and if not she's probably town. The reason I want the track used is in case of some weird shit like the Invoker functioning off of her scumbuddy's roles, with Shinori and Mancer dead and everything with role components that Mitsuki has claimed, but there's no scum!Tracker flipped yet.

[euklyd]

Er, a little help here, Euklyd. I can see that you're trying to say something about Mitsuki, but I get lost about halfway through.

J - your best bet is to click on Mitsuki's ISO, and then try to figure things out from there. I'm not scumreading your slot, on the basis that what she claimed was the town's only way of blocking actions (even though Euklyd's theory is that there's a town-sided hijacker somewhere). Would suggest that everyone else pitch in a read on Mitsuki, so that J can actually respond to things.

re: underlined –

>theory

I'm pretty certain there's a hijacker running around

unless I've gotten faulty info from Prims :V

but that+BBM's redirect seem to lend credence to there being a hijacker

also what I'm trying to say wrt Jsuki is that the role has (at least, but a third is unlikely) two parts that overlap with scum

which seems odd

since if you have like, scumnori claiming "hey guys I'm watcher plz don't lynch" and he gets cc'd by town!mitsuki then that's gg for him

watcher being the "safe" part of the role to claim, unless there's a way to claim town strongman and get away with it

same goes with mancer claiming roleblocker (since gravedigger is kind of a scumclaim)

(although looking back I could see a like, 1x amnesiac fake or something, like what I had in nsfmm4, since roleblocker isn't a great safeclaim if you're planning to actually use your roleblock)

while I can't see much point in her role for scum, it's also true that like all the scum that've flipped in either cy'o(u)r(e) have had multi-part roles

the thing about Refa's logic on her role was

Mitsuki- In all honestly, she's most likely town but something about her role just seems kind of...off to me. Like two of three are useless (tracker, roleblocker) unless there's only one scum left (I guess they can hit the SK, but meh) and watcher doesn't really help all that much because it just means scum can't kill some obviously towny person (unless said person is scum, in which case they benefit).

like it looks townie all but it's also rather more useless than a joat with 1x all three or any one of those or whatever

--

I note SB and Euklyd are using pretty much the same reasoning to reach opposite conclusions on Mitsuki. This is why I don't really care for this rolespec.

Don't really get how Mitsuki going from SB's biggest read N2 to "probtown" early D4 is him being "less sold on the Mitsuki clear", but if he's still got more to say on that I'll wait.

idk

I'll admit that I'm less sold on the Mitsuki clear now that we have 2 flipped scum with Mitsuki's role parts (and her claiming to lose her role the day that scum loses the watcher) and Larsa's incredibly obvious role, but I think I've thought of something that'll 100% prove whether or not Mitsuki faked the vanillaise thing on her way out, and if we do that I'm pretty sure her alignment will become obvious. Will detail this in the next post so that people don't miss it in case of skimming a wall.

makes me think it looks like we're reaching a similar speculative conclusion

[euklyd]

actually eclipse what is your read on Mitsuki
if like, idk Dormio or SB or someone said "hi guys I'm hijacker" what would you think of Misuki
also (unrelated) you were scum last cy'or; did you guys have safeclaims and/or fakes?

also also SB why do you want to be the one using the track, and not Dormio or eclipse or someone else who claims not to have a night action?

also also also what is a loudmouth, and why do we think Larsa is one? a role that announces who targets them each night?

If I'm reading everything right, we're missing three claims (SB, Euklyd and Eurykins). However, I don't think that'll be necessary for today, because of that post I quoted above.

I missed the part where we have Polybaldrick's claim

also wow I just remembered what bear's claim is and how it's completely not come into play since

Euklyd said something last phase which I missed, but I can't tell what he's claiming - this will drastically affect my read on him.

for the record this was indeed deliberately vague; I'm not planning on fullclaiming yet, if you're waiting for that

pedit: lmao I missed Baldrick asking exactly the same thing as my first two sentences here
the point still stands

[charlie_]

I got targeted by something N0 that makes me doing it more reliable, and my action doesn't matter tonight.

Loudmouth is basically a self-watcher who announces their targets.

[euklyd]

by "their targets" you mean people who targeted them

'k

also J has posted in other threads since you called him out
let's make it easier

Alright, going to be reading here and there so just holler at me if you need anything.

consider this a holler

J, since I see you viewing now, post ##Invoke SB to track Larsa. Since Larsa's role is obviously a Loudmouth, and the scum roleblocker is dead, we can see if Mitsuki faked the vanillaise or not. If she did, then she's obviously scum, and if not she's probably town. The reason I want the track used is in case of some weird shit like the Invoker functioning off of her scumbuddy's roles, with Shinori and Mancer dead and everything with role components that Mitsuki has claimed, but there's no scum!Tracker flipped yet.

[charlie_]

Yeah, the people who visited them. My bad.

If J doesn't come through and post the command I'm gonna assume he's confirmed scum so yeah.

[Zkirsche]

Also, why are two lurkers up there, and are you THAT convinced that Dormio is a godfather?

I've told you why the two lurkers are up there - PoE and generally unhappy with their play when they were here. The fact that Dormio could be a godfather means that we still have to be critical of him. I still don't get what the deal is with not wanting to lynch inactives if everyone else is townie for some reason or another? Should I force a case on someone I think is town just because I should avoid lurker lynching at all costs? Yes, there's you and technically Euklyd, but I'm not very confident in these reads for reasons I've already explained (either the read is weak or based on stuff that they do as town anyway).

Having an argument with someone is not building a case, analysing what people do is building a case. You've already shown zero interest in talking about my points against you so there's really nothing to discuss. I'm not voting you because there's still a chance this is just your town meta being a hindrance again which means in my eyes you're less likely to be scum than Dormio/Bear, who have done very little towards scumhunting even when they've been around (though Dormio actually made a good case yay). I'm voting the person I want lynched the most, are you?

I don't even know if you find me scummy or not, you just say that you dislike me. Does me wanting to play smash more than this make me scum? Why are you avoiding many of the questions directed at you regarding reads?

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

OMGUS etc etc but she clearly isn't planning to bother answering anything unless someone does this so I guess I'll take the bait.

@Baldrick: That was poor wording choice on my part, I never said bad play when making the actual case.

@Euklyd: Stop talking about Mitsuki and J and actually contribute, you're running into the Dormio problem from ED1 but it's LD4 so there's no excuse. Who is scum, who would you lynch? You clearly read Baldrick's post but then don't comment on it?

SB is pretty obvtown at this point yay.

Bear = eclipse >> Euklyd > Dormio > Larsa

Moving Larsa down because loudmouth is a pretty rare scum role. Bear and eclipse move away from the pack just because Dormio was pretty cool (needs to follow up though, it's not good enough to just ISO people) and eclipse is being even more scummy. Would still lynch bear and maybe Euklyd if he still refuses to say anything useful.

<24 hours left guys.

[charlie_]

It would be cool if my two strongest townreads on play would stop trying to kill each other.

[Baldrick]

idk

makes me think it looks like we're reaching a similar speculative conclusion

SB had put her as "probtown" in his listpost at the very beginning of D4 (did you read the second paragraph of my post you quoted). It's irrelevant now that he's elaborated on why he said that.

The fact that your post is mostly about Mitsuki/J with some pokes and vagueness isn't making me feel any better about you. FYI, now that we can test Mitsuki's vanilla claim you're my numero uno lynch preference.

[charlie_]

sigh

can we have votals

[Baldrick]

oh there's a page 48.

On a cursory read, I think kirsche's latest post is fairly reasonable. Goodnight, if J hasn't posted by the morning (SB's thing is the only thing we need from him before phase end) I'm going to be grumpy.

PEDIT @SB: Eclipse and kirsche are making out killing each other, I'm voting Euklyd and Dormio is voting SB.

Less than 24 hours to go, 6/10 aren't voting and the biggest wagon is 1 vote. The words "cool mafia game" tend to be overused, but...