CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

Kaoz hosting a mafia game

...

Wow

[Baldrick]

Also, don't EVER fucking pull that bullshit that you did at the end of D6 again - you do NOT do that when the fate of the game is unknown when hammer isn't reached.

What exactly are you referring to? If you're referring to me telling you I wouldn't consolidate on Eury, that is because if I did, I figured we would cross-kill each other and town would get an easy win. If SB had still preferred Eury, I was willing to deal with it, but he switched his vote to you.

Lynching Eury because we could not get the numbers to lynch you would essentially be rewarding her for flaking to the extent she was causing her own lynch.

I hate flakers. It is the one mafia behaviour I will always take as a personal insult, and can never, ever forgive someone for.

If you are not satisfied by this answer, I can elaborate, but it should be taken to PM.

[euklyd]

literally just made a post asking how one would hypothetically go about hosting an eimm or eimm-variant two weeks ago but okay

[Refa]

So passive aggressive.

EDIT Seriously though, it'd be pretty cool if you could start that.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Refa

[Zkirsche]

eclipse if J had invoked Sb to track you before they got lynched what do you think you would have done?

ggwp I don't think I played as badly as people are saying. #bias but noone really went "oh kirsche is defo scum" all game until SB started flip flopping all over the place.

Edit: Also EiMM YES. Need more OC now I'm dead.

Edited December 17, 2014 by kirsche

[Elieson]

As long as you guys don't expect a great deal of balance I can do it.

EiMM doesn't generally feature balance anyway so no one really cares

literally just made a post asking how one would hypothetically go about hosting an eimm or eimm-variant two weeks ago but okay

Are you me?

[euklyd]

Are you me?

idk maybe who knows

[Kaoz]

I didn't remember that, sorry. Go ahead then.

[Donald Trump]

(although the D7 flake was lame).

my b man, finals + work had me forgetting that the internet existed and when i came to finally look at the gamestate i was like "ahh shit"

[Blitz]

As long as you guys don't expect a great deal of balance I can do it.

YES PLEASE TO HOLIDAY EIMM

am at my uncle's place, so, I should have some time to play eimm, but probably not as much as I did last game

also, would love to play another eiCYORmm like Paperblade's (just my opinion, lol, ignore if too much trouble or if you are already done with the work)

will you have aliases or the normal shoot real names?

also, why are we talking about eimm in CYOR?

[MRDRHAWK]

I'd be down for a quick EIMM while am/pm sign ups are going

[Blitz]

I'd be down for a quick EIMM while am/pm sign ups are going

dude, this time, please respond when we bug you, lol

[SB.]

SB - Less rolespec, more day interactions, that's all I ask!

I'm kind of inclined to disagree with the less rolespec part here? The only place where my rolespec was really wrong lategame was on kirsche after Mitsuki's flip (which was more as a result of me putting faith in Prims to not have a Mafia Miller AND Godfather ;_;) and I was pretty sure you weren't scum but compromised on you because I thought you were SK. I probably should've read Baldrick more closely on Day 6 though, but I was kind of burnt out by that point and kept putting it off until it was too late.

Thanks for saving the town, anyway.

[eclipse]

eclipse if J had invoked Sb to track you before they got lynched what do you think you would have done?

Updated my will, and then shoot you anyway. SB's results would prove that I'm the SK and that one more scum exists once N6 rolled around. Then I'd be free to unload everything in the thread, as well as answer questions about what happened during the night phases.

Baldrick - You were willing to risk having the entire game lose. For what? There's no guarantee that I would've shot you, and had I survived the day phase, my will would've changed. So even if that was the scenario going through your mind, you do NOT screw around with mechanics that potentially cause a universal loss. You're free to ignore this, but in any sort of game where you need cooperation (like this one), you'll find yourself being shafted because of it.

[Baldrick]

There's no guarantee that I would've shot you,

If I'm reading your role PM right, the kill works by submitting the order on Night X, and the target dies on Night X+1. Presumably you had already submitted the order on me N5, did you have the ability to change it?

and had I survived the day phase, my will would've changed.

I don't believe it. From the tone of your posts, you clearly had a personal dislike for my case, and from your will, you wanted town to win. So why would you let me off the hook like that?

In that scenario, your will would have been revealed if I had shot you and you had shot someone else. How is that any different to me getting you lynched?

So even if that was the scenario going through your mind, you do NOT screw around with mechanics that potentially cause a universal loss.

Why not? We'll both lose regardless of whether I co-operate. The only ones who will benefit are the town, and do you think Eury/Gorf deserve it?

You're free to ignore this, but in any sort of game where you need cooperation (like this one), you'll find yourself being shafted because of it.

You won't find a more stalwart and accommodating ally than me, as long as people care enough about the game to turn up at phase end (or consolidate on a feasible lynch target if they'll be asleep) when it's a game that requires hammer to lynch.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Baldrick

[Baldrick]

And for another thing, you didn't need my co-operation. Eury was at L - 2, You had an extra vote, and Dormio was around. If my non-co-operation bothered you, you could still shoot me and leave your will untouched in order to make sure I didn't win.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Baldrick

[eclipse]

If I'm reading your role PM right, the kill works by submitting the order on Night X, and the target dies on Night X+1. Presumably you had already submitted the order on me N5, did you have the ability to change it?

That restriction was lifted when Shin died.

I don't believe it. From the tone of your posts, you clearly had a personal dislike for my case, and from your will, you wanted town to win. So why would you let me off the hook like that?

At that point, it would become a kingmaker scenario for the town. When there's multiple hostile factions, the game shifts from being straight NOC to something more like multi-faction. Had we both survived N6, it would've been near-impossible for the town to win at that point; thus, I could change my will to nearly anything.

'sides, backstabbing in multi-faction requires finesse, and your faction blew it. Pissing off the other side when you need them around is a bad idea. If I truly wanted to town-side, I would've idled every night until BBM cleared me.

In that scenario, your will would have been revealed if I had shot you and you had shot someone else. How is that any different to me getting you lynched?

The will is a night action, which meant that I would've had time to change it to something else.

Why not? We'll both lose regardless of whether I co-operate. The only ones who will benefit are the town, and do you think Eury/Gorf deserve it?

Do you think the rest of the game deserves it, including your teammates/the guys that might've participated, but died early? By opting for a universal loss, everyone loses.

You won't find a more stalwart and accommodating ally than me, as long as people care enough about the game to turn up at phase end (or consolidate on a feasible lynch target if they'll be asleep) when it's a game that requires hammer to lynch.

Your D6 actions say otherwise, as you decided to lynch someone who cared about the game over someone who barely made phase end.

[Baldrick]

At that point, it would become a kingmaker scenario for the town. When there's multiple hostile factions, the game shifts from being straight NOC to something more like multi-faction. Had we both survived N6, it would've been near-impossible for the town to win at that point; thus, I could change my will to nearly anything.

What makes you think you would survive N6.

'sides, backstabbing in multi-faction requires finesse, and your faction blew it. Pissing off the other side when you need them around is a bad idea.

So is killing one member of the other side, and doing your best to lynch the other member.

The will is a night action, which meant that I would've had time to change it to something else.

But why would you have changed it.

Do you think the rest of the game deserves it, including your teammates/the guys that might've participated, but died early? By opting for a universal loss, everyone loses.

Everyone had a say in the D1 lynch, and chose to lynch an active player trying his best over an inactive (Poly/Shinori were inactives at that stage). Any player who lets inactives survive is culpable for the actions of those inactives.

Your D6 actions say otherwise, as you decided to lynch someone who cared about the game over someone who barely made phase end.

Regardless of my trying to remove the SK before they could shoot me, you cared enough to park on kirsche D4, who wasn't a popular lynch candidate, and not turn up for the last 36 hours of the phase, indirectly causing the first NL and putting us into danger of UL. That's the kind of person I'm willing to lynch. :)

[eclipse]

What makes you think you would survive N6.

You'd be forced to shoot me, which meant that you'd have to mislynch twice, had I decided to town-side and idle (and if history was any indication, I was perfectly capable of idling). THAT should've been your biggest fear, not me shooting you.

So is killing one member of the other side, and doing your best to lynch the other member.

Difference is that had I shot anyone other than you/kirsche on that night, I probably would've lost outright. That's how being a SK works - they exist to balance the game, and numbers were almost always scum-sided.

But why would you have changed it.

Because I felt like it.

Everyone had a say in the D1 lynch, and chose to lynch an active player trying his best over an inactive (Poly/Shinori were inactives at that stage). Any player who lets inactives survive is culpable for the actions of those inactives.

By your own (later) logic, he deserved it for being absent towards the end of the phase.

Regardless of my trying to remove the SK before they could shoot me, you cared enough to park on kirsche D4, who wasn't a popular lynch candidate, and not turn up for the last 36 hours of the phase, indirectly causing the first NL and putting us into danger of UL. That's the kind of person I'm willing to lynch. :)

That logic applies to Eury, too. And Larsa/Gorf. Yet you weren't willing to lynch either of those. So once again, you're being contradictory.

I shouldn't be able to pull apart your logic like this with no role PMs - this was an issue in-game, and it looks like it persists out of the game, too.

[Zkirsche]

eclipse I think you missed the part where he said that lynching Eury was rewarding her for being inactive.

[eclipse]

Yet by his own logic, he stands by people who aren't inactive - thus, my lynch on D6, and SB's death on N6. His logic is terribly inconsistent, and I get the feeling it's there to justify his choices in this game (which he's free to do, but as long as he tries to do it, he'll be shooting himself in the foot as a person and a player).

[Baldrick]

You'd be forced to shoot me, which meant that you'd have to mislynch twice, had I decided to town-side and idle (and if history was any indication, I was perfectly capable of idling). THAT should've been your biggest fear, not me shooting you.

It was 4/1/1. If Eury had been lynched, 3/1/1. If I shot you and you idled, 3/1, MYLO. I shouldn't be able to pull apart your logic like this.

Difference is that had I shot anyone other than you/kirsche on that night, I probably would've lost outright. That's how being a SK works - they exist to balance the game, and numbers were almost always scum-sided.

That doesn't explain the "trying to lynch me" part.

Because I felt like it.

I don't believe that.

That logic applies to Eury, too. And Larsa/Gorf. Yet you weren't willing to lynch either of those. So once again, you're being contradictory.

Isn't saying "other people are doing it too, why aren't you berating them" scum logic?

Lynching them in that situation would be good for them, because I believed we would cross-kill each other.

Yet by his own logic, he stands by people who aren't inactive - thus, my lynch on D6, and SB's death on N6.

Even if your D6 performance made up for D4, I knew you two were not on my side, and wanted me dead - as scum, I have to put my personal feelings aside, and remove people who are the most threatening to my faction.

I hate being mislynched, yet I have to make people mislynches in order to win. This contradiction makes me hate myself every time I roll scum.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Baldrick

[eclipse]

It was 4/1/1. If Eury had been lynched, 3/1/1. If I shot you and you idled, 3/1, MYLO. I shouldn't be able to pull apart your logic like this.

And you wonder why I have a fucking problem with you in-game. I told you to cut the snark out earlier in the game - don't make me say it again.

That doesn't explain the "trying to lynch me" part.

The first bit of case was because I wanted something to happen on D4. Then you and kirsche decided to buddy, which is a scumtell in my books. THEN I decided that kirsche was probably not going to be lynched, and had no will, which made him a prime kill target. Remember, I have to get rid of everyone, and that includes you. Lynching you would've given me the most town cred.

I don't believe that.

Your opinion on what I would've done is wrong.

Isn't saying "other people are doing it too, why aren't you berating them" scum logic?

Lynching them in that situation would be good for them, because I believed we would cross-kill each other.

It would make little sense for me to shoot you at that point - by keeping you alive, I'd have an extra kill at my disposal, and I'd be able to tie up any hopes of advancing the game state. You needed to be lynched, not killed. My best bet would've been shooting SB - someone who was active.

Even if your D6 performance made up for D4, I knew you two were not on my side, and wanted me dead - as scum, I have to put my personal feelings aside, and remove people who are the most threatening to my faction.

I hate being mislynched, yet I have to make people mislynches in order to win. This contradiction makes me hate myself every time I roll scum.

As mafia, you'll need to put your personal feelings aside, to an extent. There's certain lines that should never be crossed (going outside of your role PM is a huge one, as well as causing everyone to lose, no matter how tempting it is), and some that need to be blurred (like who to lynch). Your faction knew that there was someone else that probably wasn't town-sided doing the kills. Instead of telling yourself that you're driving a mislynch, convince yourself that you're targeting someone hostile to your faction, and splash a bit of red to make them "mafia". This is where day interactions rock.

If necessary, rewrite your own role PM such that you have a town role and win condition. It's a hell of a psychological twister to pull, but it's usually how I squeak by in the early portions of the game.

[Zkirsche]

going outside of your role PM is a huge one

And yet you would take the guilty tracker report just to spite mafia? Now who's inconsistent?

Edit: eclipse aren't you still missing the point anyway? Letting Eury/Gorf die by lynch or through death is rewarding bad play. Lurkers shouldn't draw scum shots. Stop getting snarky when you clearly still haven't grasped his reasoning properly.

Edited December 18, 2014 by kirsche

[MancerNecro]

What's EiMM?