Sydney Siege

[dondon151]

How else should I take "It's not a coincidence that Islam is response for all of this violence throughout the world nowadays"?

do you know what "this" means, and can you differentiate it from "the?"

given that the subject of this thread is a particular act of violence, is the meaning of that statement really that ambiguous?

Edited December 15, 2014 by dondon151

[Parrhesia]

In actual news;

+ The siege is ongoing
+ Five hostages have either been freed or escaped
+ An employee inside turned off the light
+ Police were cagey as fuck but use of 'a person' suggests a single gunman
+ Sydney will operate as normal tomorrow, barring security around the Cafe
+ Demands are allegedly; to speak to the PM and to be given an ISIS flag.



On the bright side of human nature

+ The #IllRideWithYou hashtag is growing by the hour, filled with people offering to give support to any Muslum travelling to their workplace who feels unsafe displaying their religious identity
+ This;

Mosques, synagogues and churches across Australia are inviting the public to gather tonight to pray for a peaceful resolution to the siege at Lindt Cafe in Sydney.

Mosques, including Lakemba Mosque (63-65 Wangee Rd, Lakemba) and Auburn Gallipoli Mosque (15-19 Gelibolu Parade, Auburn) in Sydney, Omar Bin Alkhatab Mosque (658 Marion Rd, Park Holme) in Adelaide and Holland Park Mosque (309 Nursery Rd, Holland Park) in Brisbane will join with churches and synagogues in opening their doors from 8pm for prayer and as a show of community solidarity.

We are calling on all those who believe in prayer, to pray for the safety of the hostages, and that our nation will not become hostage to fear and hatred,” said Jarrod McKenna, National Director of Common Grace and Westcity Church Teaching Pastor.

St George’s Anglican Church in Paddington and St Mark’s Darling Point are among those that have already opened their churches to the public to pray.
In Adelaide, faith leaders from a range of traditions and denominations will gather at Omar Bin Alkhatab Mosque from 8pm to pray for those being held hostage and for national unity.
In Melbourne, the Caulfield Hebrew Congregation synagogue will open for prayers from 7pm (572 Inkerman St, North Caulfield) and in Canberra, the Theo Notaras Multicultural Centre will host an interfaith prayer service from 730pm (180 London Circuit, ACT).

[Makaze]

do you know what "this" means, and can you differentiate it from "the?"

If you're looking to justify what he said based on wording, consider the other egregious error in that sentence: "Islam is response". Is the response, or is responsible? Context tells us what he meant. His word choice does not. That includes but is not limited to the use of the word 'this' instead of 'the'.

[Parrhesia]

wow, that sucks, hope no one gets hurt, get the bastards who did this, this wouldn't have happened if australia had legal concealed carry, what's the motive behind the hostage situ---

lmao i just saw this edit, get the fuck out of this thread

[Raven]

do you know what "this" means, and can you differentiate it from "the?"

given that the subject of this thread is a particular act of violence, is the meaning of that statement really that ambiguous?

Are you able to differentiate between "this violence" and "the violence"? Because as far as I'm aware, there's only one kind of "violence."

But of course, I'm probably wrong, in which case I'd like you to explain why.

[Parrhesia]

like fucking seriously if you think that an armed man would suddenly have been put down by the improvised fucking militia that staff the fucking Lindt Cafe in the middle of the fucking CBD, if you think that that would've lead to everything being fucking okay, that a fucking shootout between a terrorist and some fucking civilians would have been the ideal fucking outcome then you can fucking leave because there is no fucking place for you here, get the fuck out and rethink your fucking life

[Naughx]

There is a clear difference between moderates and fundamentalists/extremists/radicals.

Most muslims I've met on these forums are quite okay with homosexuality...

Edited December 15, 2014 by Naughx

[Tangerine]

Okay, that's enough of that in this thread. If you guys want to argue about why x post was bad then take it to PM. If you want to have a more complex discussion about religious idealogies then I believe that is worthy enough of its own thread. After looking into the situation myself, I've spoken to the main people involved and have taken over handling things. Lets not make anymore inflammatory posts in the thread, or pointless non-responses because you didn't like something somebody said.

[Raven]

Okay, that's enough of that in this thread. If you guys want to argue about why x post was bad then take it to PM. If you want to have a more complex discussion about religious idealogies then I believe that is worthy enough of its own thread. After looking into the situation myself, I've spoken to the main people involved and have taken over handling things. Lets not make anymore inflammatory posts in the thread, or pointless non-responses because you didn't like something somebody said.

While that particular post doesn't really bode well with me, I'm not really willing to take it further with anyone since it takes a lot more than that to make me get upset. These discussions won't help the people trapped in the cafe, so I'm done.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Tangerine

[dondon151]

it was also a post (or rather, a position) that i very clearly marked as being facetious.

Edited December 15, 2014 by dondon151

[Tryhard]

+ Demands are allegedly; to speak to the PM and to be given an ISIS flag.

Wait, they want to speak to the PM? Was there any reason given and did the PM say anything about it?

[Parrhesia]

I'm assuming you're replying to a post that was deleted? Because this seems pretty out of place here right now.

It was.

For now, I am enjoying this Sparkling, Clean, Fresh and Relevant thread.

I haven't seen any reason given as to him wanting to speak to Abbott, and I don't think Abbott's responded. Could be wrong about that, though. They seem like pretty mild, if very fucking symbolic demands... but I'm not exactly an expert. Either way, judging by having five guys already out, then the police tactics seem to be working one way or another.

[Raven]

Depending on the size of the shop and the actual number of people holding the place hostage against how many are in there, people may be finding opportunities to slip out on their own. But that's unlikely - aside from the worker who got out through a side door, as reported here http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/15/sydney-hostages-flee-martin-place-cafe-siege-in-city-centre

[Tryhard]

From what I heard the hostages were released an hour ago and police moved in?

But there were alleged reports of two people dying, though these are currently unconfirmed.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Tryhard

[dondon151]

sounds like australian media's got a case of the CNN

[FrostyFireMage]

Many people forget that Muhammad was actually peace-loving.

Also why did it take so many to kill one person?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Walking Bushie

[Tryhard]

While I dislike the often sensationalist media in tragedies such as these, I suppose they need to update people.

Unfortunately it seems like that is true, two hostages, a 34-year-old man and a 38-year-old woman were pronounced dead at hospital, are dead as well as the gunman. The rest are expected to recover in hospital.

[Naughx]

According to the NSW Police there was 2 civilians killed and 2 injured. (A police officer was injured too)

Also the shooter is dead.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Naughx

[Raven]

A real shame innocent people died in this incident. I wonder what the specifics for their deaths are.

[Chiki]

Oh hey, I'm not suspended anymore.

Also, I'm not ignorant about Islam. Many members of my family are Muslims, I've lived in a Muslim-majority country for over a dozen years and I've read the Quran, along with studying it in some religion courses. I'm pretty sure I know more about Islam than anyone else here! But I apologize if I've offended any Muslims like Nightmare. I know from first-hand experience (aka some of my family) that most Muslims are perfectly peaceful people. I made that very clear in my post, but for some reason people got offended anyway.

I am also perfectly willing to discuss my reasoning behind comparing Nazism to Islam. You may PM me if you want to hear more details or make a thread in the serious discussion section about it.

Anyway, where did you guys see who died? My news sources must suck.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Chiki

[Parrhesia]

Intense thunder as I woke up, so I had nothing else to do but listen to the radio.

As I understand it, ten hostages in all escaped (weren't freed) and then the police heard gunshots and moved in. A 34-year old man and 38-year old woman were killed either by the hostage taker, a 50-year old Iranian former cleric who sought political asylum ten years back (it's a long story with him) or in the crossfire. It's as yet unclear.

New liveblog.

Oh, and an important note is that the attack happened overnight; with the ten or eleven escapees, it's likely the terrorist simply lost control of the situation.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Parrhesia

[Agro]

Yes, it doesn't seem like he actually let anyone go--they managed to escape themselves. I suspect we'll find out exactly what happened over the next week or so.

The perpetrator was Man Haron Monis, someone who made himself known to the public going back several years. Speculation seems to be that when the final 6 escaped, Monis shot and killed one (or two?) of the hostages. Reports are pretty vague at this point.

[eclipse]

Anyway, where did you guys see who died? My news sources must suck.

The live feed has information on this, though you'll probably have to scroll down a bit to find it. As of this post, it was roughly three hours ago.

And as of a minute ago, one of the dead hostages was identified. . .a mother of two. . .

EDIT: Three kids, not two. Three cheers for the live news feed. ;/

Edited December 15, 2014 by eclipse

[Parrhesia]

The man who was killed was the store manager, who apparently saw Monis starting to tire and took the chance to try and wrestle the gun away from him. A shot was fired, and both of them and a woman were killed in the crossfire.

It's unfortunate, but it could have been so much worse.

[Snowy_One]

I know some muslims IRL and have gotten along... decently fine... with them. Moe down at my local Gamestop is awesome. I know good people and I am reminded constantly not to judge an entire group by the acts of a few extremists, something I have had to point out multiple times.

Yet, as my father is an islamophobe, I get to see a lot of the nastier side in politics (some muslims wanted to build a mosque in a plot of land that they had purchased and protested when the city said they couldn't, ignoring that the reason why was because the road they wanted to build it on, especially to the scale they planned, simply couldn't handle that much traffic for example), and I see stuff like this happening all the time constantly, especially in the middle east where it seems like a lot of problems could be fixed if... if these stupid extremist groups would just pipe down... it gets hard to keep that stance.

This Sydney shooting is a tragedy and, if ISIS has any intelligence, they will disavow any association with this man as I, somehow, doubt that holding up a coffee shop is the great will of Allah. Sadly this is almost certainly going to come down hard on muslims all over the world, all because of one stupid idiot.