Back to the Roots

[Iceclaw]

Even playing Unnatural Growth a couple of time wouldn't make the rest of the game a cakewalk, even if you do so freshly out of Chapter 4*. You'd be comfortable for a couple of levels, that's all, but you'd quickly fall in back. Were you playing in Normal? I'll concede it's really easy even without grinding, and that's a legitimate flaw in the game.

*= Okay, you sorta could if you fed only one character as much as you can, and mainly used this character afterward for a while. But then you'd be taking a level 15/17 to level 10/12 foes. If that does not ring a bell that maybe you overdid it, I don't know what to tell you.

[Gradivus.]

Aren't you contradicting yourself in that grinding point? the new player who couldn't predict that-assumption is just an excuse. and I highly doubt that

a) a first-time player downloads dlc maps with the highest priority

b) a guy who spends 2 rounds in exponential growths will break the game with the exp gained

I always "resist" the possibility of reviving my characters. even though my characters could die, I don't prevent it by choosing another mode instead of playing around the problem, which doesn't even require tremendous skill. Casual mode is pretty superfluous, my casual runs are all on classic mode.

[Aiddon]

That argument is even worse, because it means any game where you can grind is "too easy". And sorry, but claiming it's a flaw in the game's design that you by your own words do "not have the self discipline to say no!" is not very honest. You are to "blame" here if there was anything to blame regarding how you play a solo vidyagamz. :)

Indeed, I snapped the game's difficulty in half due to choosing to go off the beaten path because I wanted to branch out with classes, get new skills, build new Supports, etc. Plus, let's face it, the game COULD be pretty brutal when it knew you were breaking the system, as was evidenced with the final set of DLC maps where the enemies were monstrous. I BARELY managed those with a team that was for all intents and purposes broken. Plus it's always fun to see how much you can shatter a strategy game's systems. That's half the enjoyment.

[Kiseki]

Personally.... I want:

~LIGHT MAGIC. God, I miss this. Especially because of FE13 Micaiah....

~No world map. I liked it in FE8... but then FE13 made it profitable endlessly on Normal, which honestly has to go or make all difficulties like Hard. It's stupid, the reason it's okay in FE8 is that profit is minimal without glitching for infinite use weaponry.... Besides that, I feel like the feature is a once in a while thing at best

~Status conditions have to return. Sleep, poison, silence, etc, those were great things about the GBA games and Tellius.

~Add back the Trinity of Magic and separate magic ranks. Helped vary magic overall. On top of that, have more variety in magical units stats. IE, Mages are quick but squishy, Monks are more magically tanky but weaker, Shamans are physically tanky and decently strong but very slow and less move, like a sort of magical armorknight. Like GBA

~NO MORE SECOND SEAL INFINITE LEVEL ROFLSTOMPS. Seriously... I think this was my least favorite thing about FE13 World Map vs FE8.

What they could do with the Second Seal if it is brought back is to have FEDS-styled reclassing where the levels stay the same and are not reset.

[quasimopho13]

Problem with lunatic/+ is that all your doing is increasing enemy stats/skills, thereby increasing grinding. It's an artificial increase in difficulty. An increase in difficulty should encourage the player to use a game's core mechanics rather than increase the numbers. Fire emblem is all about the strategy. You want to increase strategy difficulty by creating more map hazards/ terrain difficulties and strategically placing enemies. For example , let's say you are on a map where you can escape quickly or take the route that gives great items/characters, but holds dangerous enemies. The mountain terrain leading to the rewards limits player movement. Obviously the safer route is gunning straight for the exit. However, if you go for the risky rewards, you have to plan your route. How do you get the rewards and survive the assault? Which units can take out the enemies? What are the risk in using those units (are they glass cannons weak to certain enemy attributes, etc.). Maybe you use a flier to rescue units and fly them over walls, or use a general to wall the enemy army. Mebe u need to use a flier to get the general to a choke point due to the generals weak movement, compensated by the fliers terrain immunity. That's fire emblem gameplay. You have to carefully think about your moves and the risk. Btw the example was taken mostly from fe5 map 6. A brilliantly designed map that is an exemplar of fire emblem gameplay.

Edited January 15, 2015 by quasimopho13

[XeKr]

This topic is kinda confusing to me.

If the majority of the series is a certain way, as is claimed itt, why is “pure FE” the FE5 way? (definitely not the same as the FE10 way, like the other half of this topic is discussing) Considering how different the initial few games FE1, FE2, and FE4 are (with 3 as partially a remake), from each other and FE5, is there even a standard for “real FE”?

Why is FE5 the posterchild for character design when you could use scrolls to boost anyone anyways? How is it great design anyways if one of the most important character stats, PCC, is hidden.

Why is FE13 the scapegoat for things like varied map objectives, magic triangle, etc when like half or more of the series didn’t have it, including the two games previous? Why is it criticized for lowmanning/difficulty, as if you couldn’t steamroll whole games with various Jeigan/fliers characters (and still L+ is often conveniently ignored)? It’s not like mechanics such as weapon weight were well balanced in previous attempts either.

Anyways, I’ve never really understood the map design/objective concerns. To me it feels more organic if secondary objectives or chapter approaches arise from things like enemy/item placement, stats, and AI/aggro patterns (Tiki's map is defense, Panne's recruitment map is defense, Libra/Anna/Say'ri have rescue maps, tons of children paralogue examples, etcetc) rather than the game telling you it’s a defense objective and forcing you to turtle for X turns. Alternatively, who cares about say…FE9’s “amazing” maps when it can mostly boil down move Titania/Marcia 9-11 tiles, end turn? Oh yeah, it’s just pure RNG if a Sleep Staff hits, not strategy, just prayer.

Perhaps I’m being deliberately facetious here but people will say the same thing all the time wrt to Avatar steamrolls, as if FE13 was the only game that allowed something like that, and subsequently FE13 requires no strategy, just rng.

Be a bit more consistent in your criticism plz. >_>

Problem with lunatic/+ is that all your doing is increasing enemy stats/skills, thereby increasing grinding. It's an artificial...*snip*

Difficulty is balanced around no-grind Lunatic(+). Grinding is a crutch (literally in bonus DLC maps), to make the game easier for the players that wish that additional help. The game is beatable with a variety of characters/strategies on Lunatic(+).

One of the ways FE5 increases difficulty by limiting player information (arguably, it’s only really hard on a blind run). For the most part FE13 does it by increased enemy stats/changed positioning/aggro patterns (same design principle as FE12 fwiw, though a few things such as no mechanics to exceed caps, Seize vs. kill boss, and no Veteran helps matters), while Lunatic+ forces you to adapt and improvise strategies. These methods of “artificial difficulty” can be frustrating for different players in different ways, but at least FE13 hides less from the player.

fwiw (modern) AI needs some advantage to be challenging because it’s inherently vg AI.

Edited January 15, 2015 by XeKr

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Man, I hated bersek stages so much, yet didn't notice Awakening got rid of them until replaying FE7.

I am looking forward to the choices affecting crap though, if done like FE5-8, not like Awakening's change 2-3 lines of dialogue

Berserk stave is annoying, but it's a good alternative way to "screw" an enemy in a different way. And you can make good use of it too.

Personally.... I want:

~LIGHT MAGIC. God, I miss this. Especially because of FE13 Micaiah....

~No world map. I liked it in FE8... but then FE13 made it profitable endlessly on Normal, which honestly has to go or make all difficulties like Hard. It's stupid, the reason it's okay in FE8 is that profit is minimal without glitching for infinite use weaponry.... Besides that, I feel like the feature is a once in a while thing at best

~Status conditions have to return. Sleep, poison, silence, etc, those were great things about the GBA games and Tellius.

~Add back the Trinity of Magic and separate magic ranks. Helped vary magic overall. On top of that, have more variety in magical units stats. IE, Mages are quick but squishy, Monks are more magically tanky but weaker, Shamans are physically tanky and decently strong but very slow and less move, like a sort of magical armorknight. Like GBA

~NO MORE SECOND SEAL INFINITE LEVEL ROFLSTOMPS. Seriously... I think this was my least favorite thing about FE13 World Map vs FE8.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...

~NO MORE AVATAR

YOU CAN'T DO IT WELL IS, GIVE IT UP ALREADY

Yeah, there should be limit of the level. I actually would like to see the third tier class back like in FE10.

And trainees should also return, who cannot reclass back in the trainee class again after reaching level 10.

that's a looot of expectations

I have a feeling you're going to be really disappointed (again, if you didn't like FE13 either)

Yes, FE13 disappointed me!

When I played this game for the first two hours, my first impressions were: Wow, what awesome graphics, animations, soundtrack and creative support conversations.

After playing two hours I was so bored about the game mechanics and map design. This game wasted so much potential!

Pretty much all the game mechanics of the previous FE parts are gone. Even ballistas don't exist anymore.

FE4-10 had so many different great mechanics.

I can see, why most of them didn't return in 11 and 12, because they were remakes. But I absolute don't know, why they didn't return in FE13.

yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, yes

Light magic should be available to an unpromoted class though, Ballistae should be movable and recruitable like in fe11, anima siege tomes should be buyable mid-to-late game, weapon weight does nothing on top of making things more realistic, which attempt is in vain and unnecessary, the str-based system is bs, though con affects enemies too at least so I'd be borderline ok with that. stealing commmand is pretty neat and a sort of blue-blinking item instead of green-blinking thing that can be stealed but not dropped would be actually nice (don't get me wrong; both stealing and dropping should be things, but for different items). my opinion is neutral about sword!falcoes, but it'd be a neat addition if staves stay usable. if light magic were to return, magic triangle should too tbh. devil weapons should return. An ingame iote shield thing should re-exist too, instead of a iote shield dlc skill. and a new Lunatic+ mode should have Lethality+ on the final boss! and Vantage+ and PavGis+! And um, Hawkeye on top of that? With 0 Lck to make him crittable?

I've to admit the weapon weight should be fixed at least for mages, because their strength growth is in general very low. A major problem in FE11, because most of them had 0% growth. If it should return, the skill stat should influence the AS to make it more equal for physical and non physical units.

[Leif]

I am concerned where the Fire Emblem series is going now. I feel that the art style is creeping down the "overly-anime" lane. I love the older Fire Emblem games, as well as the spin-off games like Tear Ring Saga and Berwick Saga, because their art style was much more mature. Aside from the technicolor hair and large eyes, characters, for the most part, dressed and acted like individuals from a medieval era. I was turned off by Awakening's art because the artist over-expressed the high-fantasy element that is present in all Fire Emblem games. For that reason, we ended up having knights and cavaliers with silly-looking armor in Awakening.

Juxtapose Oswin, from FE7, with Kellam from Awakening. Which one looks more dignified? Yusuke Kosaki is a talented artist, but his designs are bordering Tetsuya Nomura's level of impracticality and silliness.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Leif

[powerserg]

I would love to see some more advance maps, at least the extra chapters should really have fun with alternate objectives. Since choices are so important it could be interesting to have multiple win conditions that all have other effects on how the story plays out. Like If I reach X point I get to escape and avoid battle but obviously that leaves the guy I was going to kill alive, and could have some negative feed back. Having lots of in game choices on how I'm going to approach a mission is the most interesting way I could think choices could be brought to the table (although I think were going to get the choice a side, chose who dies, kind of thing.)

[quasimopho13]

I don't think you can necessarily say that lunatic/+ was designed for no grind runs. If you don't grind, certain parts often boil down to one specific exploit. I don't remember fe13s as well, but look at fe12. In the prologue vs Jeigan, you have to wait next to him until he attacks you, then keep using vulneraries. If you attack him on your phase, you die on the enemy phase because Jeigan's hit rate is too high to dodge. In fe5 stats don't mean much, especially in late game when stats are near caps for players/ enemies alike. I've heard people say that, without the surprise factor, fe5 loses it's difficulty. However, this is not true. You still have to figure out how to quickly get across tough terrain to save allies placed in dangerous spots, deal with enemy sleep/berserk/silence staves, etc. even if you KNOW that these hazards are there, the strategies to deal with them are still fairly complex and definitely don't boil down to "mow down the enemy".

Fe13 lunatic, from what I remember, just felt like a game of cat and mouse where you run around the map being chased by the enemy as you put yourself just in range of one enemy and barely survive to slowly pick them off. I'll admit that revering fe5 as a god among fire emblem is excessive, but it had a lot of examples of good map design. Fe7 is great with difficulty increases, like how the desert map was increased by adding fog of war. The game increased difficulty by adding a new strategic element rather than by just buffing enemy stats. Fe13 almost completely did away with map hazards like terrain bonus.

It's true that in many fe games, there are really good units including the avatar in fe12. However, none of these units are quite so insane as to be able to combine the best of each class into one super unit. The avatar in fe12 can use all classes, but can't take the best skills of all of them and go nuts like robin in fe13. That being said, I don't like the reclass system in general and still think fe12 avatar is too broken. However, most great units are limited to the strengths/weaknesses of their class like Hector having low resistance. The only exception I can think of is fe9 Ike who is fast, strong, can tank both magic and physical attacks, and can outright solo the game.

Edited January 15, 2015 by quasimopho13

[Iceclaw]

A bunch of amazing stuff

This is a good opinion. As to why FE13 is a scapegoat? Because it's the last, more open to new players entry in a long standing franchise whose fandom prides itself with the idea that it's a hard game. And as many gamers are insecure geeks, anything that may challenge this self-awarded recognition is going to be despised.

I am concerned where the Fire Emblem series is going now. I feel that the art style is creeping down the "overly-anime" lane. I love the older Fire Emblem games, as well as the spin-off games like Tear Ring Saga and Berwick Saga, because their art style was much more mature. Aside from the technicolor hair and large eyes, characters, for the most part, dressed and acted like individuals from a medieval era. I was turned off by Awakening's art because the artist over-expressed the high-fantasy element that is present in all Fire Emblem games. For that reason, we ended up having knights and cavaliers with silly-looking armor in Awakening.

Juxtapose Oswin, from FE7, with Kellam from Awakening. Which one looks more dignified? Yusuke Kosaki is a talented artist, but his designs are bordering Tetsuya Nomura's level of impracticality and silliness.

Hint. FE was never not anime. It just happens so it was taking cues from 90s anime style before, like the hairstyle near all of the FE4 cast rocks. It's nothing new.

[Roivann]

Light Magic isn't even that good. It's basically anima magic with less Mt and more Hit. If it had effective damage to this game's monsters that'd be cool. Otherwise... eh.

I'd like for Dark Magic to not hold a monopoly on siege tomes kthx.

Light magic, IMO, was always more of a method of self-defense for classes whose main utility wasn't on the front lines, like the Bishop.

If they actually wanted to balance the three magics, they should give each a distinct function. Anima could be your bread-and-butter offensive magic, dark could have offset hit rate and perhaps might for unique effects like Noseratu, Luna, Eclipse, Waste, and Jörmungandr have, and light magic could carry blessings from the gods in the form of stat buffs. But I'm rambling now, aren't I?

Edited January 15, 2015 by Rovan

[Gradivus.]

the vulnerary that you get on FE12 P1 (or the two vulns on Reverse Loony) is actually designed to make the prologue more manageable with certain MU types and also prevents Rody from loldying on P3. You're likely to need it, but that's why it exists.

[quasimopho13]

But the point is that your forced to use it in a map where there us only one strategy to win.

Ice claw: Yes, we get satisfaction from completing challenge, but so do most people. Joy in accomplishment is basic human nature and boosts self-esteem. Nothing wrong with that. Fe13 is not seen as threatening due to it's difficulty. It's beatable, but the satisfaction feels hollow since it doesn't feel like fire emblem. Fire emblem is more fun when you use the deck of cards your dealt to win on maps that have multiple routes to success. Fe13 is not as fun because you create your own deck of cards and there are few, often a single solution to the maps on lunatic/+.

[powerserg]

But the point is that your forced to use it in a map where there us only one strategy to win.

Ice claw: Yes, we get satisfaction from completing challenge, but so do most people. Joy in accomplishment is basic human nature and boosts self-esteem. Nothing wrong with that. Fe13 is not seen as threatening due to it's difficulty. It's beatable, but the satisfaction feels hollow since it doesn't feel like fire emblem. Fire emblem is more fun when you use the deck of cards your dealt to win on maps that have multiple routes to success. Fe13 is not as fun because you create your own deck of cards and there are few, often a single solution to the maps on lunatic/+.

I think being able to create your own deck of cards is what created such big appeal from the masses though. Create the roles you want with the characters you like and move forward that way. I never felt like I felt in Pokemon OR/AS where I would win by clicking A.

[Gradivus.]

Prologue 1 is so straightforward that there IS in fact only one way to win it, strategies are so undiverse due to the map layout on that one that you cannot argue that removing the Vulnerary and lowering Jagens attack by 2 would open up possibilities. Vulnerary makes it more manageable on Hard 3 and 4, that's all and on top of that, the Vulnerary is a nice present. Basically the only purpose of the map is making the start more canonically fitting and giving MU a free level lol.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Leif]

Hint. FE was never not anime. It just happens so it was taking cues from 90s anime style before, like the hairstyle near all of the FE4 cast rocks. It's nothing new.

I know that. I was just pointing out that Awakening was more like a typical JRPG in terms of design than the other entries in the series.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Leif

[quasimopho13]

Powerserg:

Yeah, but Pokemon is going for building your own army/movesets. Historically, Fire Emblem has been about building your own army, but not radically warping the characteristics on your units. Plus, in Pokemon, you can't change a Pikachu into a Charizard. However, in the new Fire Emblems, you can change a mage into a general which is bizzare because they're polar opposites.

Gravidus (sick lance btw :D):

Well on the lower difficulties, you can attack on the player phase and not die on the enemy phase. You can even forgo using the vulnerary. But on lunatic, there is only one pattern you can do (wait/vulnerary, repeat). But what you said is exactly my point. The maps should be more diverse and add strategic elements to them. I don't think stat increases are the way to go with Fire Emblem. They should make the terrain/enemy placement more strategic, such as adding locked doors in castles with a range 1-2 enemy waiting behind the door.

Edited January 15, 2015 by quasimopho13

[Gradivus.]

Honestly, FE12's maps are pretty well-designed in a strategic regard from Prologue 7 on and a really good example for this is Lunatic Chapter 5. The snipers and Dracoknights block everything that is 7 Mov or lower from accessing the village, thus Marth. Routing the Snipers is fairly tough given what you have by C5, and so is protecting the village, though unless MU or palla has promoted. There is one single tile where Sirius can move to kill Thief on Turn 3, while not luring too many Dracoknights towards him. I think you shouldn't mind IS for making Prologue 1 so straightforward. It's the very first prologue map and Prologue is intended to introduce the player into the gameplay, while P1 on Lunatic is a crucial MU level up. The fact that Prologue 1 is so straightforward says exactly nothing that seconds your argument really, because the straightforwardness stops quickly (exactly one map later). You shouldn't be complaining about one single straightforward map in a game that has some maps like C20x that are much worse. The reason why P1 exists on Loony is because Prologue exists on Loony. There is no big reason to take it out, and it isn't unmanageably difficult. Also, if the "fact" that a Vulnerary use is necessary (seriously, are we discussing about a vulnerary use?) then convince yourself by using Knight MU. Plus, P1 isn't the only straightforward map in Fire Emblem. Awakening premonition? Shadow Dragon prologue? Sword of Seals final chapter? And many more.

I disagree on your argument against the reclass system. Your argument is based on the assumption that reclassing a good Sage into a General grants you a good General. Mage classes have rather bad defense and strength growths and General relies on having MUCH defense and good strength. You can reclass Etzel into a General, but I doubt the point behind it when there are many way better Generals.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Soen]

I think one important factor to consider is that the game's engine is clearly Awakening's one. That means they didn't have to do everything from scratch, so they had more time to do other things. I hope good map designs are among this.

Surely they are introducing new aspects in the game, like new kinds of weapons(katanas, naginatas and maces were shown, plus the mace did some fire attack), new mechanics(swords are now strong against bows, maybe that is for all waepons at 1 range, while when you're at 2 range the bow user gets the weapon advantage, like someone speculated) and maybe new classes(female fighter and ogres?). We still know too less to understand how the game'll be, like an old style FE or an Awakening copy.

Since again this is the same engine Awakening used, I think there could be a lot of aspects IS could bring back, like Casual Mode, Lunatic Difficulty, an Avatar, DLC(you all know this is coming),all of which I'd like to see. On the other hand, there are two major aspects of Awakening's gameplay I wouldn't like to see at all.

First is reclassing. I know this is become an important aspect of the series since Shadow Dragon, but I really dislike the way IS used it in Awakening. With reclassing you are able to make one unit into another totally different one. While in Shadow Dragon the use of reclass was limited as the number of units in the same class branch couldn't be higher than a certain number, in FE13 it was infinite. That means you can have as many units being in the same class as the game lets you. That ruins the variety, IMO. In the old FEs every unit felt like it had one and only role, like the frail Peg Knight who if trained gets awsome Speed, or the Fighter who gets lots of Strenght but is frail and slow. The possibilty to use all of those units in various ways gratly rose the replay value. This, combined with grinding, kills the replay value for me. Expecially since you can just get some get Streetpass units, grind a lot and then the game becomes a piece of cake.

The second is children. I really liked the parent system in Awakening, but I hope they aren't doing it again, for two reasons. First, beacuse I don't want the plot to be tied again with time travelling. The story seems to be really cool from what we can see in the trailer and I'd be a shame if they reused plot elements. The second is that children, expecially Morgan and whoever is the other Avatar's son/daughter, are really broken, even without grinding. Just think of Aether!Chyntia. S support are a nice thing that futher adds characther identification and they make you feel that the Avatar is really you, but there can be S Support without children.

Other than this, surely a return of the Trinity of Magic, Steal and weapon weight(with con) are all mechanics I'd really like to see.

[Gradivus.]

reclassing diversifies the game much which is actually pretty awesome and I personally prefer diversity over strict class individuality and it's semi-restricted by the way second seal works. it's seriously fine (reclassing always was fine to me), if you still dislike it, ban second seal from your runs. otoh, I agree on children, I like the concept on awakening but I don't feel like it should be a general fire emblem thing, given how easily children can outshadow parents with that awesome exp gain, skill pool, and I don't either feel like time travelling should be too established. Also, I feel like proccing con and con tonics should be things in case weight gets reintroduced at all, and a con+2 skill.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[quasimopho13]

Reclassing turns the game into "get the best skills in each class, then use the strongest class as your base". Soft bans don't do much because the temptation to use second seals is still there, especially in a pinch. A no reclass mode would be a good compromise. That way, everyone gets what they want.

[Gradivus.]

That issue is due to how awesome skills are, not because reclassing would be broken. Anyways, if in the starting menu you could choose: Easy/Hard/Loony, then Cla/Cas and then you get asked: Reclassing allowed? then its fine by me. I would find a complete reclass kill largely pointless though.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[powerserg]

Powerserg:

Yeah, but Pokemon is going for building your own army/movesets. Historically, Fire Emblem has been about building your own army, but not radically warping the characteristics on your units. Plus, in Pokemon, you can't change a Pikachu into a Charizard. However, in the new Fire Emblems, you can change a mage into a general which is bizzare because they're polar opposites.

You kind of can do that depending on what your pokemon is. I'm very into competitive Pokemon and a lot of things are odd about the way Pokemon are designed.

Regardless of that what I'm talking about is in terms of pure fun and how hard a game is. being able to make my knight into a mage doesn't make the game not fun. The games insanely fun and still was challenging to me. Maybe it's because I don't soft reset RNG, spend all my days in the forums looking at how to optimize characters but none of my circle of friends ever had an easy time with awakening. I know me and my brother Marathoned the game when it released and we were losing units and soft resetting a lot. Later when I got more people to buy it or play my copy everyone seemed to have a pretty great time. Obviously it's not has hard as FE7 or really any FE without real grinding as a possibility since grinding existed. However, coming as a fan of regular JRPGs and Disgaea I enjoy my self a good grind. FE7 was my first SRPG but I think so long as normal stays at the point where I need to make good choices (and for me it was at that point) I don't think the game is too easy.

[Crimson Red]

tl;dr some veteran fans feel isolated by the new games since the series is becoming more casual, more modern, and is appealing to a larger audience

it sucks but I have a feeling this game isn't going to meet the (IMO crazy high) expectations of certain fans and you'll all be stuck playing older FEs and fan-games for ages to come unless you actually accept and like the new ones to continue being a fan

this happens to quite a few series, it changes, stops being as niche, doesn't keep doing the same thing/doesn't stick to what made people like the series in the first place, and people get left behind :(

I can sympathize with it but eventually people are going to have to accept that FE has changed and just because they don't like it it doesn't make it a bad game or the worst FE games, it's just not for them