Duelist Kingdom Mafia [Game Over]

[Randa]

My internet is committing sudoku whenever I try to post. Send help.

Mitsuki, I've been busy with RL stuff (and probably will continue to be until Friday) but either way, why am I incapable of staying motivated as scum? If past scumgames are any indication, I can keep myself motivated regardless of alignment. I'm not really sure what you wanted out of me contentwise either considering I was up to date with stuff last night?

##Unvote

##Vote: Baldrick

Moving on, Baldrick's Shin vote bugs me because it basically hasn't changed since his initial intent to vote there if you look closely at it. Even the foundation for the vote is sketchy because why would Shin want to vote someone he was overall townreading even if there were some issues here and there?

I'd like to know why he's reading RD's suspicion on him as scumlogic and not just badlogic.

Randa, what happened to your read on Baldrick? It's weird that you dropped it considering you only unvoted the slot because you were paranoid of hammers. I'm also interested in Baldrick read on Randa actually because I don't think he's really addressed him yet.

Well my null read on Baldrick has remained a null read. I don't really have a problem with his explanation about his thoughts on Mitsuki, which was the reason I voted him, and I feel his more recent posts, well they make me feel conflicted to be honest. There is definitely a genuine effort in his last post IMO, but at the same time I don't really see any definitive reads coming out of him, in fact I'd say it's the opposite I have no idea what he thinks of anybody. Now some of that is probably on my part, but it is a bit disconcerting that I can't tell who he thinks is scum or even town.

(I have a question, how many votes are needed for it to be hammer? I don't remember now...

Thank you in advance, i'tll be useful to know.

I'll post tomorrow trying to get some more reads ;;

Good night my dears!)

6 to hammer, otherwise whoever has the most votes today.

Okay so brief over view on the events that happened while I was napping.

So I kinda keep forgetting Refa is in this game and I don't know why. This could end very badly for me.

SB is definitely trying, but something doesn't feel right. I just don't think I've ever seen him be defensive. He's been passive occasionally but even when he's scum I don't think I've seen him be defensive, I really don't know what to make of that.

On the other hand Mitsuki seems a lot more vocal then I remember in the last few games and even seems to be the central person in most discussions. She seems to be try to drive the game forward, and while I may not agree with her logic and actually think she looks slightly worse in the SB debate I think scum would rather the game stagnate.

RD I'm not a fan of the Tech vote. Sad thing is I don't why. RD's case isn't the worst thing I've ever seen and tech definitely isn't looking great ATM so I should be fine with the vote. I guess I just question why he feels most strongly about somebody with so few posts as opposed to any of the people who have been more active.

I will address shin and give a clearer picture of what my thoughts are in the morning cause I've got to much work to do right now.

[Baldrick]

@Randa; I'm not exactly sure what Baldrick thinks either. I can't get enough from Poly/RD/Tech to make any judgment on them. SB isn't playing his usual game, but I can't see any scum intent in what he's done. Dan might be trying to stay on people's good sides. I can't fault the effort of the other people I'm not voting.

[Refa]

So I kinda keep forgetting Refa is in this game and I don't know why. This could end very badly for me

Probably because I haven't really done all that much and my biggest scumread is just sheeped from SB. I dunno, I'd blame being busy (which to be fair, is part of the reason), but I'm finding it hard to make posts when my opinion isn't actually changing. I'll try and get something out about my thoughts about Baldrick's recent posts when I can, though. Also yeah, I know that was probably a Joke Post, but I'm explaining my stance anyways dammit.

[Baldrick]

If you mean me, you could respond to what I said to SB. I hate this timezone because it seems everyone is only active between midnight and 8am Melbourne time, and I can't get any sort of dialogue going (at least you've been diligent in responding to me)

[Baldrick]

Prims sub in and talk to me I'm so lonely.

[Refa]

which 2hu wud you fuk

[Baldrick]

OK but are you going to do anything in the next 6 hours of so.

If not I might need to claim since wagons that aren't me have zero momentum.

[Refa]

I'll do you one better and ISO you. Still think your early content is for lack of a better word somewhat unmemorable. Well, at least on the scumhunting side. If you had a null read on me early on, I don't get why you haven't read me at all (especially considering I made it clear I'd be OK with voting you). Your Shin vote is also kind of meh. I mean in retrospect, it was fine for the time (noone was really making better votes), but I'm getting the impression that you're not really analyzing his recent posts. Do you think Shin is scum with his role? I'll admit that I've basically ignored the claim myself, but that's moreso because I was townreading him anyways (so unless the claim was scummy, I'd do so). I will say that you brought up a good point regarding Shin's vote though; if he voted you earlier, he wouldn't have hammered you either so I'd like some explanation on that from Shin's end. I'd like for you to analyze Radiant Dragon in more detail outside of his vote on you, mostly because he's a weaker townread of mine and if my read changes on you I'm going to have to reevaluate well...everything. Don't get why you're being self deprecating about your scumhunting; I don't think you're scummy for that (actually I think it's more likely to come from town generally) but like it doesn't really match up with your actions from before where you seemed a lot more confident. Your response to SB was fine. And that's all I have to say. Overall, you're the most likely to be scum, but you've done some weird things (OK, what comes to mind is you being hesitant about claiming, since if you were scum I figure you'd just claim right away) that make me less sure.

[Elieson]

Elieson's First FIST Mist Misty Musty Votals

---

Baldrick (2): Shin, SB

Shin (1): Baldrick

SB (1): Mitsuki

Mitsuki (1): Dandragon

Technosuke (1): Radiant Dragon

Voteless: Technosuke, Refa, Poly, Randa

---

23 hours and 0 minutes remain. 6 hammers early. Otherwise, majority=Lynch

Edited February 26, 2015 by Sara.

[Refa]

Oh god dammit, I should've formatted that. I'm sorry, everyone.

[Baldrick]

If you had a null read on me early on, I don't get why you haven't read me at all (especially considering I made it clear I'd be OK with voting you).

I have. I have nothing else to say that I haven't already said. I guess I could try and butter you up so you don't want to lynch me but it's not really my style.

Your Shin vote is also kind of meh. I mean in retrospect, it was fine for the time (noone was really making better votes), but I'm getting the impression that you're not really analyzing his recent posts. Do you think Shin is scum with his role? I'll admit that I've basically ignored the claim myself, but that's moreso because I was townreading him anyways (so unless the claim was scummy, I'd do so).

His later posts don't help my case, but I don't think they harm it either. I would call them... conservative? He says Mitsuki and SB are talking about each other too much but he doesn't ask them for opinions on others. He tells Dandragon "stuff" has happened but doesn't be specific to give him a talking point. He pokes at Tech and RD but there's no real pressure behind it, and he isn't really engaging with me either to refute my case on him or justify his own. I get the feeling he's happy if the game stagnates.

His role is null to me. The only times I care about a role is if it's strong enough to be worth keeping around, or if the player has used it in a particularly pro-town or anti-town way.

I'd like for you to analyze Radiant Dragon in more detail outside of his vote on you, mostly because he's a weaker townread of mine and if my read changes on you I'm going to have to reevaluate well...everything.

- "Mitsuki and Shin are both null" has a small contradiction. Her case is weak, but she is diligent in her suspicion? Does that mean he thinks it's good that she's trying to get out of RVS? Surely you could say something about Shin; is he being diligent or not? Is SB being diligent?

- Wants more effort from Dan and Poly but nothing to say about what they did?

- It's fairly obvious Tech is a newbie, RD's case doesn't really explain why he's newbscum rather than newbtown. The meat of the case is Tech misrepping me; what does that mean for RD's suspicion of me? Does he think it was a bus, or are they independent cases (i.e. don't make associative reads without a flip)

Don't get why you're being self deprecating about your scumhunting; I don't think you're scummy for that (actually I think it's more likely to come from town generally) but like it doesn't really match up with your actions from before where you seemed a lot more confident.

What post of mine seemed confident to you? I'm not going to go out and say "there's no point in scumhunting because nobody will listen to me" because that would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but having people all but say "you are terrible at mafia" (in the nicest possible way, of course) and knowing they are completely correct tends to have a demoralising effect.

Your response to SB was fine.

Would you still sheep SB? If so, you must have some objection to it. If not, awesome.

[Refa]

I have. I have nothing else to say that I haven't already said. I guess I could try and butter you up so you don't want to lynch me but it's not really my style.

Fair enough. M-my ego didn't need a boost from you anyways!

His later posts don't help my case, but I don't think they harm it either. I would call them... conservative? He says Mitsuki and SB are talking about each other too much but he doesn't ask them for opinions on others. He tells Dandragon "stuff" has happened but doesn't be specific to give him a talking point. He pokes at Tech and RD but there's no real pressure behind it, and he isn't really engaging with me either to refute my case on him or justify his own. I get the feeling he's happy if the game stagnates.

Fair enough...again (I really don't have the biggest vocabulary); nothing really here that I immediately disagree with, so I'll ISO him next (don't worry, this one will be properly formatted).

- "Mitsuki and Shin are both null" has a small contradiction. Her case is weak, but she is diligent in her suspicion? Does that mean he thinks it's good that she's trying to get out of RVS? Surely you could say something about Shin; is he being diligent or not? Is SB being diligent?

- Wants more effort from Dan and Poly but nothing to say about what they did?

- It's fairly obvious Tech is a newbie, RD's case doesn't really explain why he's newbscum rather than newbtown. The meat of the case is Tech misrepping me; what does that mean for RD's suspicion of me? Does he think it was a bus, or are they independent cases (i.e. don't make associative reads without a flip)

I don't see what's wrong with nullreading both of them? I mean, if he was nullreading both of them for the same reasons, I'd agree (because well, what you said) but I'm pretty sure he offered up other reasons. My biggest issue with that part would be that a lot of reads are null reads over anything. Also I'd agree with your second point; I can understand not having an impression on Dandragon (especially since I don't think RD has ever played with him before, and Dan hasn't really done enough to give an impression) but at least Poly's post is worthy of analysis. Also yeah, would like answers to those last points as well.

What post of mine seemed confident to you? I'm not going to go out and say "there's no point in scumhunting because nobody will listen to me" because that would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but having people all but say "you are terrible at mafia" (in the nicest possible way, of course) and knowing they are completely correct tends to have a demoralising effect.

Would you still sheep SB? If so, you must have some objection to it. If not, awesome.

I dunno, that's just what my general impression was; in retrospect though, you're right, so that was a pretty dumb question. At least it helped me to get a better read on you from your response.

At the time I made that post, no, but I would've voted you regardless for my own reasoning. Don't think you're scum anymore though, so mreh. Going to be a tool and look through the people you're suspecting (Shin, Radiant Dragon) and probably Randa as well, because I didn't feel as good about him as I thought I did on my reread. Wouldn't lynch Dandragon though, despite my issues still kind of being a thing because of what SB said (I remember him really contributing on the final days of FE11 Mafia, but earlier is kind of a blank to me). Maybe if he's like, still not contributing by Day 2 I'd look into him more.

[Baldrick]

I don't see what's wrong with nullreading both of them? I mean, if he was nullreading both of them for the same reasons, I'd agree (because well, what you said) but I'm pretty sure he offered up other reasons.

For Shin, he said he had no opinion on his play, and didn't mention what he thought of SB.

[Refa]

Wait, I thought you were talking about his reads on Mitsuki and Shin.

[Baldrick]

I was, but he also mentioned SB in that post. I thought when you said "what's wrong with nullreading both of them", you meant Shin and SB, because I didn't think his Mitsuki case was wrong, but wanted clarification on what he meant. I see what you mean now.

[Mitsuki]

Can we please not lynch Baldrick? His latest posts make 0 sense as scum, why wouldn't he try to push hard someone to get someone else lynched rather than explain his reads better? There's also the fact that his tone doesn't read like scum getting lynched, but as town giving up.

I'm ok with lynching Shin. Checking his posts he has a lot of non-conclusive reads. Also, when you check his Baldrick vote, there's not really much behind it; his case is basically just an "easy wagon hop". But this was less than 24 hours into the game, and Baldrick's vote was just the second one on Shin.

I don't like the lack of followup either. I think this is a really weak vote by now and that town would have tried to either find someone else to vote or argue with their suspect, specially when Baldrick was actually trying to talk with Shin (Shin replied, but that's it). Looks like a votepark to me.

##unvote

##vote: Shin

I need to reconsider SB, but that will take a while.

[Shin]

I'm ok with lynching Shin. Checking his posts he has a lot of non-conclusive reads. Also, when you check his Baldrick vote, there's not really much behind it; his case is basically just an "easy wagon hop". But this was less than 24 hours into the game, and Baldrick's vote was just the second one on Shin.

I don't like the lack of followup either. I think this is a really weak vote by now and that town would have tried to either find someone else to vote or argue with their suspect, specially when Baldrick was actually trying to talk with Shin (Shin replied, but that's it). Looks like a votepark to me.

Considering I've been asleep since my last post, it's very hard to comment on his latest content unless I somehow developed the ability to sleep post. Perhaps wagon hop was a bad way to describe it, it's more that it looked like "Hm... that's going to be a thing, let's get in on it."

Maybe there was a lack of follow up because before then Baldrick hadn't really posted anything significant? Again, I point to my inability to sleep and post. I do admit that Baldrick's later content is way better though, he's actually looking at other people and not being a lazy butt. I'm not entirely liking the double standards Mitsuki's holding with regards to Baldrick, but I don't feel that there's scum activity in something so blatant.

My comments with regards to the SB/Mitsuki interactions were inconclusive because I didn't feel that they were super indicative of alignment. If I could have got something from them, I would have followed through with it. I could totally rage and vote Mitsuki, but I still don't see scum intent behind this case. I mean, it's not like it's being twisted to make me look bad, it's more that it's taking everything at surface value.

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

This may seem totally left field, but what has Randa done again? He's posted a lot but his actual content isn't really there and he's not particularly involved in discussion. I mean, he dislikes Mitsuki's reads, votes and unvotes, votes then unvotes again and even his last "content" post is fluff. I mean, it's all really inoffensive material or replying directly to what's been said to him. For someone with so many posts, he has very little presence, something that I feel's intentional.

The reason I had very little to say to Dandragon is because all his content is very generic and not particularly in touch with the game. I can't have specific issues on things when the play seems very newbie-esque.

[Mitsuki]

I won't talk about how significant what Baldrick had posted was but I expect town to at least try to interact with their scumread, as I already said. The fact that you just left your suspicion idling in the background instead of doing something with it is what I find telling.

I guessed you were sleeping, I was talking about your lack of comments/pushing on Baldrick before that.

Which double standards?

I don't like Shin's Randa vote. I don't see the conviction in there, it just looks like he's hopping to the next wagon.

@Shin, what makes Randa different from Tech?

[Baldrick]

Considering I've been asleep since my last post, it's very hard to comment on his latest content unless I somehow developed the ability to sleep post.

You were perfectly happy to accuse me of vanishing when I went to sleep. Just saying.

My comments with regards to the SB/Mitsuki interactions were inconclusive because I didn't feel that they were super indicative of alignment. If I could have got something from them, I would have followed through with it. I could totally rage and vote Mitsuki, but I still don't see scum intent behind this case. I mean, it's not like it's being twisted to make me look bad, it's more that it's taking everything at surface value.

This may seem totally left field, but what has Randa done again? He's posted a lot but his actual content isn't really there and he's not particularly involved in discussion. I mean, he dislikes Mitsuki's reads, votes and unvotes, votes then unvotes again and even his last "content" post is fluff. I mean, it's all really inoffensive material or replying directly to what's been said to him. For someone with s

so many posts, he has very little presence, something that I feel's intentional.

Looking at Randa's ISO, he does seem to focus on Mitsuki more than I realised. In his last post, the SB/Mitsuki/RD comments are thoughtful, but comments are all they are, and he doesn't put a vote down which is troubling this late in the phase. This is a better case, but a lot of it is in his older posts. Why didn't you mention Randa before now?

The reason I had very little to say to Dandragon is because all his content is very generic and not particularly in touch with the game. I can't have specific issues on things when the play seems very newbie-esque.

If that's directed at me, my point was you told Dandragon "stuff's already happened". That's not very helpful; when someone is out of touch with the game, giving them a specific event to look at (e.g. "What do you think of my case on Baldrick", "What do you think of the Randa/Mitsuki argument", etc.) gives them some direction, and can help you get more thoughts to consider your own reads.

[Baldrick]

I'm the best at editing quote blocks.

My comments with regards to the SB/Mitsuki interactions were inconclusive because I didn't feel that they were super indicative of alignment. If I could have got something from them, I would have followed through with it.

Why bring it up then? If you get nothing from it, you're basically just saying "Those guys sure are tunneling each other".

[Shin]

I don't like Shin's Randa vote. I don't see the conviction in there, it just looks like he's hopping to the next wagon.

@Shin, what makes Randa different from Tech?

Technosuke doesn't really seem to know what's happening and comes across as genuinely confused, Randa is essentially sitting there producing minimal content and is letting the game go on by around him. If I wanted to hop onto another wagon, it would make sense to pick one people are interested in rather than somebody with no votes who I legitimately think is scum.

Looking at Randa's ISO, he does seem to focus on Mitsuki more than I realised. In his last post, the SB/Mitsuki/RD comments are thoughtful, but comments are all they are, and he doesn't put a vote down which is troubling this late in the phase. This is a better case, but a lot of it is in his older posts. Why didn't you mention Randa before now?

If that's directed at me, my point was you told Dandragon "stuff's already happened". That's not very helpful; when someone is out of touch with the game, giving them a specific event to look at (e.g. "What do you think of my case on Baldrick", "What do you think of the Randa/Mitsuki argument", etc.) gives them some direction, and can help you get more thoughts to consider your own reads.

I didn't mention Randa because I barely noticed him, like, it was only his last big post that brought him to my attention. The point about Dandragon is fair enough though, although I was hoping that he'd look more if he realised that something had actually happened.

I'm the best at editing quote blocks.

Why bring it up then? If you get nothing from it, you're basically just saying "Those guys sure are tunneling each other".

Yes you are! It's more that I want to show that I got nothing from it rather than it looking like I've ignored it.

[Shin]

Which double standards?

It was more in reference to Baldrick and SB's early games, but I've got a little theory about that.

[Mitsuki]

On SB: I still feel like he's been kind of uninvolved with the game, and I think he's scum on gut.

I can't really point much wrong with his votes though, just that they're weak given the context, not weak by themselves. The first Baldrick vote is ok, but the Randa vote here is different, since a lot more had happened by then and voting someone on a weird behaviour is weak. I don't think this would be telling for most players, but SB tends to have way more solid cases than this as town, since he's a pretty good player.

With regards to the second Baldrick vote, well, I think Baldrick tried to get somewhere with his Shin vote so I don't see it as scummy, and I don't like the fact that SB didn't take this into consideration.

I've checked SB's meta on how he reacts to my cases on him, and I think his replies this game are more like his scum meta. I'm going from these two posts: town post, scum post. As town you can see how he explains his train of thought and motivations in a clear and calm way, as scum he's more agressive and tries to invalidate the case by asking questions about how the points brought up against him make sense.

SB > Shin. This is frustrating, because I feel like nobody ever listens to me on SB.

@Baldrick and Tech: what do you think about SB?

[Elieson]

Elieson's First FIST Mist Misty Musty Rusty Votals

---

Shin (2): Baldrick, Mitsuki

Baldrick (1): SB

Randa (1): Shin

Mitsuki (1): Dandragon

Technosuke (1): Radiant Dragon

Voteless: Technosuke, Refa, Poly, Randa

---

11 hours and 48 minutes remain. 6 hammers early. Otherwise, majority=Lynch

Edited February 26, 2015 by Sara.

[Shin]

Hey, just a quick shout, I don't really feel like being lynched by 2 people. It would be pretty swag if other people actually came and contributed, like even if it meant that I were to be lynched.