Refa Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If we're giving a bunch of resources to Finn so he can go from pretty good to awesome then I think it's kind of sandbagging Lex to give the Pursuit Ring to Noish to make him go from mediocre to pretty good rather than making Lex go from pretty good to awesome. Also the Hero Axe has only 12 Wt, which is the same as the Hero Lance. Lex also has +1 Spd over Finn at base and only -10% growth so if Finn is quadding then so is Pursuit Ring Lex. Lex's SKL growth is bad but he has a base of 10 and the Hero Axe has 70 hit, which is the same as, say, the Light Sword. Maybe I overuse Lex or something or have gotten blessed Lexes but I have never run into half of these problems you guys do with Lex. The biggest problem I've ever had Lex face once he gets the Hero Axe is being too tanky to get attacked. Well, Lex can easily get the Pursuit Ring (which is worth way more than all of the resources Finn gets combined), it's just that he doesn't benefit that much from it? He has like a 10Spd base at Level 4 with a 20% growth, and his promo gain in it sucks too. Maybe I'm underestimating his ability to double or something though, since I've never actually given him the Pursuit Ring. Light Sword (and by proxy, Prayer Sword) doesn't really have the best hit either, it's kind of annoying (at least the Hero Axe gets WTA against lance users). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Finn has 9 base speed with a 30% growth so I don't see how he doubles much more than Lex without a Speed Ring? Finn kills more stuff in C1 I guess but Lex has Elite so he shouldn't fall behind in levels. Granted that the Pursuit Ring is worth more than the Speed Ring and Steel Lance; it's just that I don't see who makes better use of it other than maybe Leaf? Noish certainly doesn't; if the argument is that Lex can't ORKO armours with only 2 hits, Noish most definitely can't either. Noish uses weaker weapons and has worse STR so all he has going for him is lighter weapons and skill procs off his shoddy skill and speed stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) It's much the same as giving Midir the speed ring, without it, Midir is a much weaker unit. Noish without the pursuit ring is pretty mediocre, but he gets a lot better with it, especially if he's fathering someone. Same goes for Lex I guess? Lex with the pursuit ring is literally only better against armors, so his performance doesn't even get significantly better. It doesn't fix his issues of fighting swordusers or 2 range enemies (although the 2 range thing applies to most units) Edited March 18, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 But what is Noish killing even with the Pursuit Ring? I've never given it to him tbf but I can't think of anything off the top of my head, Chapter 3 is like... cutting through a bunch of enemies in front of Madino (who're mostly armoured IIRC), the Cross Knights who are ranged, more armoured enemies in front of Silvail, wyverns, and the Orgahill pirates. He's only killing the pirates in 2 hits, and they're really bad. Chapter 4 is a bunch of mages that he doesn't want to take a counter-attack from and pegs which I guess he's good against. I don't think he'd be very good against Lamia's crew at the bottom, and then in Chapter 5 he can fight the axe dudes who're also kind of meh, some bow knights whom he can kill on PP, some wyverns that he doesn't 2hko (some of whom also have Horseslayer) and then the desert, which he isn't entering. The Pursuit Ring lets Noish kill the Orgahill pirates, who may be the least threatening enemy mob in the game, and the axe knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) It doesn't make him kill anything, it just increases his usability. If he procs any skill (or has the hero sword) he kills anything though. Edited March 18, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 out of curiosity, does the Speed Ring improve the performance of any unit except for Steel Lance!Finn in ch1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyTheDemonSlayer Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 It marginally increases the usefulness of other units, and with it Sigurd has a chance of being able to one round the archers at the end with a javelin, but besides that Finn is the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would rank Cuan above Lex because Hero Axe costs turns and he's not contributing much even with it. After Heirhein is seized, Chapter 2 is a Hero Lance!Fin playground. Lex can contribute a bit with the Augusty brigade, but he's not doing much with it in 2. In 3, he can probably counter some Cross Knights with a Hand Axe in a forest, but that section's pretty exclusive to whoever has the Light Sword. With regard to Lex and the Pursuit Ring, he might have it, but Leaf wants it more. If he's fathering Arthur, he definitely wants it. but Leaf still takes priority, and by the time he promotes, it's free for grabs. But that's around Chapter 9 where Lex!Arthur falls off and becomes less of a kill machine. His sister probably wants the ring more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) 270 is the most that we are allowed to go saving more turns to get a below 270 turns score is very welcomed If Leg ring!Celice saves more turns then Leg ring!Leen then celice is assumed to have it because they are the 2 main canidates for example Knight ring!Leen is assumed because she utilizes it the best saves the most turns with it etc. but we are also not ltcing so pairing is much more flexiable Speaking of Leg Ring... Sigurd should get it at the start of Chapter 5, so that it goets passed down to his kid for free and needing it to seize castles faster. His son needs it for his badder move. Plus, this'll make it easier for Sigurd to get the Tyrfing from his father (A tearful reunion moment)! ;) ----- Oifeye isn't above UU at most since he really isn't useable much/if at all in the later chapters. He's never any good at these things... -Taking on Bahara's squad -Taking on the Begin Ritter (The Brave Bow squad at endgame!) -Anyone that uses Magic in Bloom and Ishtar's armies. -He'll need careful attention in Ch9 from General Hannibal and Travant's squads. Don't put him near them, please. -Any of the Dark Mages in the later chapters since he's pray to Sleep and Fenrir. Another time that he has to be out of range of fighting. -No good against Julius/Ishtar and Arvis' squads. His avoid is way to low to be of any use. -Just about can't do anything in the final chapter. If there's anything else I'm missing... Edited March 20, 2015 by PuffPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyTheDemonSlayer Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) However, he is good at these things: -Everything in chapter 6 (Though granted, he's probably lagging behind leg ring Celice) -Everything in chapter 7 (He can die during Melgen, but he's still better off than most other units) -Everything in chapter 8 (a magic ring + light sword means very reliable 1-2 range) -A lot in chapter 9 (though he does have trouble with Hannibal's squad and Trabant's squad) -He's really alright in chapter 10 with a speed ring or a few speed procs And he's definitely capable of dealing with dark mages in chapter 10. So what if he can be put to sleep? A lot of units can be. He's also completely capable of fighting around Fenrir, since the Fenrir mages like to split their attacks across a few different targets and there are so many forests in chapter 10 that it's easy to make sure he only needs to fight a few enemies at once. Oh, and leadership/charisma exists. Oifaye does fall off in the end, but he's still a very powerful unit throughout most of the game, which is enough to warrant his current position, below all the other gods but still above the vast majority of units. Edited March 20, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Oifey is amazing, what are you talking about? He may not be at par during endgame, but he damn well is before! How many units do you know of who (at base!) can one round all of the wyverns near manster with a magic ring? Plus, he's a mount in a game where mounts dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Truth be told, those aren't really reasons exclusive to Oifaye. Sure he's not Celice, Leaf or Aless, but neither are most people. He doesn't really have too much use in the final chapter but the rest of his performance is reasonably solid. He's essentially a better Delmud to start, on par with Delmud for the middle chapters and slightly wore than him towards the end - and Delmud isn't bad by any means. Also lol at using Pokemon tiers in FE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Also lol at using Pokemon tiers in FE Yes. ---- It's not really good when he puts your combat rank at risk in the later chapters and having to start the whole chapter all over since you cannot get a total of three dies throughout the game if your to get an A in combat. Not that he really has to be used at all once he reaches LV30. But...he must be there before doing so since he's easier for the EXP rank. Edited March 20, 2015 by PuffPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This isn't a ranked tier list. Even so, I don't see how Oifaye's more suspectible to dying than the average unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 -Taking on Bahara's squad -Taking on the Begin Ritter (The Brave Bow squad at endgame!) -Anyone that uses Magic in Bloom and Ishtar's armies. -He'll need careful attention in Ch9 from General Hannibal and Travant's squads. Don't put him near them, please. -Any of the Dark Mages in the later chapters since he's pray to Sleep and Fenrir. Another time that he has to be out of range of fighting. -No good against Julius/Ishtar and Arvis' squads. His avoid is way to low to be of any use. You don't actually fight the bow squad in the final chapter because they can't attack you before the castle they are locked onto is seized. Bahara's squad also is kinda skipped because you can just berserk the hel mage in front of the castle to reduce Julius' HP to 1 and have a flier chip in from below the cliff to deal the final bit of damage to him. Hannibal's squad is generally pretty annoying to deal with, not just for Oifaye but for just about everybody. The dragon knights shouldn't be a problem though because he can just ORKO them with the Light Sword and a Magic Ring - he'll easily dodgetank their innacurate attacks if he stands on a mountain so they aren't actually a problem for him. In all honesty, the final chapter is probably the one where you do the most amount of skipping enemy squads and just heading straight for the castle. You're not actually doing any fighting except against the bosses of Edda, Dozel and Freege castle, you don't even actually fight Julius or Ishtar. Like, I think you have to kill maybe 4 or 5 axe knights on the way to Dozel [Oifaye can deal with them just fine], nobody [!] on the way to Freege and a few mooks on the way to Edda and Barhara [which Oifaye can handle with a 50+ kill Light Sword for the most part]. The amount by which he supposedly 'falls behind' is generally being blown out of proportion imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Yes. ---- It's not really good when he puts your combat rank at risk in the later chapters and having to start the whole chapter all over since you cannot get a total of three dies throughout the game if your to get an A in combat. Not that he really has to be used at all once he reaches LV30. But...he must be there before doing so since he's easier for the EXP rank. Combat ran isnt a problem in FE4 what are you smoking Only rank you ever need to fear in FE4 is EXP(Mabye tactics if you are going for some odd pairings that cost turns or good pairings that Oifayes is still solid in 10 and 9 he just isnt as amazing as he is in 6/7/8 This is not a ranked tier list and Yojinbo raises alot of good points Lex!Arthur cant reliably take down the entire ritter in 10 but he still does a heck of a good performance against them with the magic ring (dark mage meteor fmage elfirefmage mageknight and general/baron when artthur is relying on like 5-8 mag procs with the magic ring to OHKO otherwise everything else is OHKOd with a wrath critical) Also If you know how pokemon rankings actually worked youd know that even pokemon that are rated rather highly (A- on mega aero) in OU and are UU are rated more highly then alot more OU pokemon (Zapdos Skarmory Breloom Scizor ETC.) The Tiering of UU OU RU and NU are basicly upon usage thats why tier drops can happen if you arent used alot for example terrakions drop even doe he was rated A rank at the time (currently residing at B+) the viabillity rankings is where units are actually tiered Edited March 20, 2015 by TTPK_Tal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Is Azel!Delmud really that bland? Magic Sword using kids with good spd/str sounds decent enough to me. Also, what's the BEST Ayra pairing. I kinda want to get one that can do reasonably well with minimal resources. I mean Lex is a contender, but he's a contender for being the BEST overall dad iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Is Azel!Delmud really that bland? Magic Sword using kids with good spd/str sounds decent enough to me. Also, what's the BEST Ayra pairing. I kinda want to get one that can do reasonably well with minimal resources. I mean Lex is a contender, but he's a contender for being the BEST overall dad iirc. Noish is the best non ranked father Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Tbh, Lex isn't actually that great a father. Elite isn't a big deal in gen 2 unless you try to rank and Ambush isn't nearly as good as other skills unless you combine it with Wrath. So it's either TiltyuxLex for LTC purposes or SylviaxLex for ranking, every other female character has much better options. Aira's best pairing is still Noish. Jamka is very good if you let him kill Jacobans/Chagall in Ch.3 to give him the Thunder Sword/Silver Blade and have him pass it down to Skasaha. Noish passes down Swords, Critical and Charge though which is just sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) You don't actually fight the bow squad in the final chapter because they can't attack you before the castle they are locked onto is seized. Bahara's squad also is kinda skipped because you can just berserk the hel mage in front of the castle to reduce Julius' HP to 1 and have a flier chip in from below the cliff to deal the final bit of damage to him. Hannibal's squad is generally pretty annoying to deal with, not just for Oifaye but for just about everybody. The dragon knights shouldn't be a problem though because he can just ORKO them with the Light Sword and a Magic Ring - he'll easily dodgetank their innacurate attacks if he stands on a mountain so they aren't actually a problem for him. In all honesty, the final chapter is probably the one where you do the most amount of skipping enemy squads and just heading straight for the castle. You're not actually doing any fighting except against the bosses of Edda, Dozel and Freege castle, you don't even actually fight Julius or Ishtar. Like, I think you have to kill maybe 4 or 5 axe knights on the way to Dozel [Oifaye can deal with them just fine], nobody [!] on the way to Freege and a few mooks on the way to Edda and Barhara [which Oifaye can handle with a 50+ kill Light Sword for the most part]. The amount by which he supposedly 'falls behind' is generally being blown out of proportion imo. You don't actually Berserk the Hel Bishop because it's super unreliable... Hannibal's squad is easy (or at least significantly easier) for numerous not Oifaye people to deal with, especially given the right Leadership + Charisma bonuses. Oifaye being relatively useless for the final chapter still constitutes as falling behind (noone gets a 50+ kill Light Sword usually). Edited March 20, 2015 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Pretty much any sword user with pursuit can ORKO the dragon knights with light sword + magic ring, unless it's like, Alec!Delmud or something. Pretty much anybody can kill stuff with a 50 kill light sword. Just because Oifaye can do it doesn't mean it's impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Nobody's talking about him being impressive. It's about how people exaggerate the extent by which he falls behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Has more than one person actually mentioned Oifaye falling off (hard) at all? Sure, he's functional with (or even without) rescources, but i'd rather funnel said resources into better units later on. Oifaye's performance early really isn't much stronger than the rest of your team's anyway, especially considering Chapter 6 he's likely to do very little because it's advantageous for Celice to be promoted for chapter 7, and all the kids get inheritance. Power Ring Delmud has equal or better offence than Oifaye immediately at base. His higher stats just disappear very quickly in comparison to your other mounts, other than like a bad Lester. I don't even know where he's being considered tierwise anymore since the OP hasn't been updated (I don't think), but in my opinion he's at least worse than Delmud. Edited March 20, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't really feel like Oifaye becomes bad. It's just your super kids end up becoming monsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) It was in response to that dude who claimed that Oifaye should be "UU" because he supposedly falls off so hard and has trouble against the "Bahara squad" among other things. Edit: Oifaye being ranked higher than Delmud is also more a matter of Delmud being underrated rather than Oifaye being overrated. It's true that Delmud rarely gets the credit he deserves. Edited March 20, 2015 by Yojinbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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