Unit Optimization Thread

[Wayward Alchemist]

Hinata can't A+ Benoit unfortunately.

Aww. S support Effie, then?

[Leif]

Aww. S support Effie, then?

Well, you could streetpass yourself and have your Hinata buy Defensive Formation from a Hinata that married a Knight secondary class!Kamui. But that requires you have two 3DS's.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Leif

[Wayward Alchemist]

Well, you could streetpass yourself and have your Hinata buy Defensive Formation from a Hinata that married a Knight secondary class!Kamui. But that requires you have two 3DS's.

Or a friend willing to sacrifice his Hisama xD

[Azz]

Hinata cannot marry Elfie.Just for those people wondering, here is a compiled list of all supports(S and A+)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PGXnMa16kR2jWVctPLyffxNqJySKKqxrb6antWnfCag/htmlview#

Not made by me

[HeoandReo]

Hinata has a few decent A+s and wife choices. Swallow Strike from Tsubaki helps a bit, as does access to Breaking Sky from Nishiki. Realistically, the problem I see for him in optimality is that the women who are most useful to him would be in higher demand elsewhere. And his mods are frankly godawful. Takumi and Saizou, while sharing the same -2 speed mod, have much better distributed stats across the board. (Extends to their kids too a bit. Gurei has some good niches but Kisaragi has problems. Kisaragi does have the skill that increases his speed if he waits though, so that makes up for it.)

He could pull an alright Counter/Magic Counter set from marrying Sakura. Hisame also turns out OK and can run the same set, since Sakura doesn't hurt strength and cancels out his bad speed. (Sak's just so much better for Foleo on 3rd route though, so there's some competition)

Hisame is kind of like Kisaragi in that both of them have really bad speed, but while Kisaragi lacks meaningful A+ options (Deere/Foleo aren't super useful unless he's full support, Shinonome has overlap, leaving Hisame himself) Hisame has some awesome ones. Shigure gives Swallow Strike if his father didn't pass it down, Gurei gives Ninja/Puppeteer, Lutz has Deadly Breath and Overbearing, and Kisaragi has a few good things from the Bowman class. I dare say that Hisame has probably the best A+ options out of all of the male children aside from Shinonome, who is so awesome himself that he arguably doesn't need them.

Wife selection is pretty standard. Matoi for Swallow Strike, Mitama for Magic Counter if you're not doing Sakura!Hisame, Shara/Kinu for Breaking Sky, Midoriko for Extravagance, Sophie for Cav, Velour for Berserker and Hero. Ophelia is someone to consider if you want to try VV, but realistically since its proc rate is nerfed it's quite a bit more dangerous than it was in Awakening.

Edited July 13, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Soen]

What about Luna!Hisame? I feel that Hisame doesn't have the need to be fast, since he has good growths and mods to be a tank. With Luna he has 1/0/-1/1/0/4/0 as mods and 48,3/35/1,7/30/33,3/33,3/40/21,7 as growths, which aren't bad. He gets Mercenary from her and one skill from the Peg Warrior line. I'm not sure though if he would do better as a Shura or a Blacksmith. Shura has caps that are better suited for Hisame, but he does nothing with magic, seen his nonexistant growth. If he goes Blacksmith, he could run this set:

-Swordfaire(Trueblade)

-Sol(Brave Hero)

-Line of Death(Weapon Master)

-Overbearing(Revenant Knight, A+ Lutz)

-Strength Seal(Weapon Master)

If he A+ supports Lutz, Wyvern Lord could be another interesting option. Instead of Swordfaire, he might go with Mirror Strike.

[TheWerdna]

how viable is Defensive Formation? I was figuring it would be really good on all my slow units, or ones using weapons that can't double.

[capmalachi]

how viable is Defensive Formation? I was figuring it would be really good on all my slow units, or ones using weapons that can't double.

It really depends on the unit using it of course, but yes, any unit that won't be doubling anyway should find it to be very useful.

[TheWerdna]

It really depends on the unit using it of course, but yes, any unit that won't be doubling anyway should find it to be very useful.

I was considering using it on one character I plan to build as a sorcerer tank (since Nosferatu can't double anymore), as well as general (who i will likely give a thrown 1-2 range weapon.)

[astrophys]

From the experience of those with the game, what level of +SPD growth do you basically need to be able to reliably double?

Obviously, in terms of caps, certain classes aren't going to be doubling much (Dark Knight, General, etc.).

Anyone who gets Swallow Strike access doubles much more easily, as they only need to match speed now instead of exceeding it by 5…. although in some cases that's still not going to be enough..

[Morgan]

How are Fox Spirits in this game? Are they like Taguels were in Awakening and don't perfrom as well? Or are they much better or viable? I don't know if I should consider Nishiki!Shigure and Azura!Kinu for Fox Spirits

[Wayward Alchemist]

I was considering using it on one character I plan to build as a sorcerer tank (since Nosferatu can't double anymore), as well as general (who i will likely give a thrown 1-2 range weapon.)

Try this on Thrid Route:

Orochi!Ophelia@Sorc

-[blossoming Mind]

-Defensive Formation (S Ignis)

-Awakening (DLC)

-Roundhouse (Odin A+ Harold)

-Ogre Strike (Orochi A+ Rinkah)

-Vantage

This gets her up to ~75% Crit before Awakening when equipped with a 20% Crit Tome (Odin's Tome of Darkness) and this is with Awakening's Growths, which account for serious Stat inflation. A great part of this set is that not only can it Crit Sweep, it's bulky enough to Nosfertank, too, although DK would be arguably better for tanking.

[TheWerdna]

Try this on Thrid Route:

Orochi!Ophelia@Sorc

-[blossoming Mind]

-Defensive Formation (S Ignis)

-Awakening (DLC)

-Roundhouse (Odin A+ Harold)

-Ogre Strike (Orochi A+ Rinkah)

-Vantage

This gets her up to ~75% Crit before Awakening when equipped with a 20% Crit Tome (Odin's Tome of Darkness) and this is with Awakening's Growths, which account for serious Stat inflation. A great part of this set is that not only can it Crit Sweep, it's bulky enough to Nosfertank, too, although DK would be arguably better for tanking.

My other consideration would be to make the old "Wrath, Vantage, Vengence" Sorcerer. Would probably then switch DF for vengence, and not run Nosferatu.

Also, Odin can't A+ with Harold. So roundhouse would need to be acquired via skills bought from an Odin who s-supported a warrior.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TheWerdna

[Bovinian]

Personally I'd probably switch Roundhouse out for Vengeance. Would lose some crit, but then would do more dmg on non crit hits.

I'd keep Roundhouse. The only good crit stacking build is one where you have as much crit as you can possibly get. If you still happen to have a filler slot, Line of Death is a better choice than Vengeance, as it gives a flat, 100% guaranteed +10 boost to damage, and it also makes it easier to get into Vantage/Awakening range. Vengeance will have a really shitty activation rate on a Sorcerer.

[TheWerdna]

I'd keep Roundhouse. The only good crit stacking build is one where you have as much crit as you can possibly get. If you still happen to have a filler slot, Line of Death is a better choice than Vengeance, as it gives a flat, 100% guaranteed +10 boost to damage, and it also makes it easier to get into Vantage/Awakening range. Vengeance will have a really shitty activation rate on a Sorcerer.

Yeah, I sorta realized that after a moment, so I edited my post. Was too slow though to go unnoticed.\

Though as mentioned, Odin can't actually A+ with Harold, so I'd need to get Roundhouse through other means.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TheWerdna

[Bovinian]

Yeah, I sorta realized that after a moment, so I edited my post. Was too slow though to go unnoticed.

Haha, gotta go fast.

Anyway yeah I had also considered an Ophelia crit build and ran into the issue of not easily being able to get Roundhouse. The non-Logbook/MyCastle options were Odin being married to Charlotte, but this is too much of a waste of Charlotte's amazing mods to go on a magical unit, or Odin being married to Nyx, who can A+ with Charlotte to get Roundhouse and then pass it down.

[anachronism89]

I have a few quick questions that are affecting my team planning. Apologies if they've been answered before. I'm having trouble finding the answers and weeding out conflicting info.

1. Do buddy seals pass on a character's secondary class if the primary class is already shared. For example, if Aqua A+'s Hinoka, does she get Hinoka's Lance Fighter, since she already has Pegasus?

2. Can multiple people A+ to the same unit? For example, can I have Rinka and Pieri both A+ to Charlotte for her Fighter tree?

3. Do we know if, given full class tree overlap (ie. Kaze and Saizou A+), buddy seals will provide some third class tree or just nothing at all? I read Nyx gives a somewhat random Spellcaster to her daughter Eponine, and I'm wondering if the same thing works for buddy seals.

4. Does Mozume pass Villager or Bowman to her Buddies/Husbands/Children?

[Featherwick]

How are Fox Spirits in this game? Are they like Taguels were in Awakening and don't perfrom as well? Or are they much better or viable? I don't know if I should consider Nishiki!Shigure and Azura!Kinu for Fox Spirits

In terms of the game they are pretty good from what I've heard. However they don't have 2 ranged weapons, or brave weapons. Does that mean they're bad? Possibly. They're usability depends on the popularity of mounted units, brave weapons, and ranged weapons.

[TheWerdna]

I have a few quick questions that are affecting my team planning. Apologies if they've been answered before. I'm having trouble finding the answers and weeding out conflicting info.

1. Do buddy seals pass on a character's secondary class if the primary class is already shared. For example, if Aqua A+'s Hinoka, does she get Hinoka's Lance Fighter, since she already has Pegasus?

2. Can multiple people A+ to the same unit? For example, can I have Rinka and Pieri both A+ to Charlotte for her Fighter tree?

3. Do we know if, given full class tree overlap (ie. Kaze and Saizou A+), buddy seals will provide some third class tree or just nothing at all? I read Nyx gives a somewhat random Spellcaster to her daughter Eponine, and I'm wondering if the same thing works for buddy seals.

4. Does Mozume pass Villager or Bowman to her Buddies/Husbands/Children?

1. Only the primary class. If there is overlap they are just glorified parallel seals

2. Yes. In fact, Charlotte can also then A+ someone completely separate.

3. Look at point 1. Also, I hadn't heard this. I might just switch who is paired with who (currently Nyx was going to support Leon, and Felicia supporting Zero. Can anyone confirm this? Now I want to know what all the other complete overlaps get.

4. Villager I believe.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TheWerdna

[Bovinian]

1. Only the primary class. If there is overlap they are just glorified parallel seals

2. Yes. In fact, Charlotte can also then A+ someone completely separate.

3. Look at point 1. Also, I hadn't heard this. I might just switch who is paired with who (currently Nyx was going to support Leon, and Felicia supporting Zero

4. Villager I believe.

This is what sucks about not having the game and having to rely on second-hand information from people who may or may not have done proper experiments...I've heard information contrary to all of these answers except for number 2. Namely:

1. If both buddies have the same primary class (i.e. not "primary for one and secondary for the other"), they will have access to each other's secondary classes. It acts like a parallel seal if the one who uses it has a secondary class that matches the buddy's primary.

3. I also read about Nyx!Eponine inheriting Spellcaster, with a screenshot to prove it. Shigure inheriting Rod Knight from Azura is probably another example of this mysterious third class appearing out of nowhere, but the exact conditions under which this occurs are still vague, since this doesn't happen in every circumstance where there is overlap. (Another example of this would be what Belka!Lutz would inherit from Belka, since Lutz already has Wyvern Rider and gets Fighter from Arthur. This was asked before but I don't recall seeing a reply to it)

4. Several people have stated that Mozume doesn't give Villager to buddies/husbands. I think it can still be passed to children though?

Since I don't have the game either, and so many people say so many conflicting things, it's really hard to tell who has the right facts and who doesn't. I don't think we'll ever have 100% conclusive information until someone formulates a proper experiment with an example of every single possible scenario and formally organizes the results.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bovinian

[TheWerdna]

This is what sucks about not having the game and having to rely on second-hand information from people who may or may not have done proper experiments...I've heard information contrary to all of these answers except for number 2. Namely:

1. If both buddies have the same primary class (i.e. not "primary for one and secondary for the other"), they will have access to each other's secondary classes. It acts like a parallel seal if the one who uses it has a secondary class that matches the buddy's primary.

3. I also read about Nyx!Eponine inheriting Spellcaster, with a screenshot to prove it. Shigure inheriting Rod Knight from Azura is probably another example of this mysterious third class appearing out of nowhere, but the exact conditions under which this occurs are still vague, since this doesn't happen in every circumstance where there is overlap. (Another example of this would be what Belka!Lutz would inherit from Belka, since Lutz already has Wyvern Rider and gets Fighter from Arthur. This was asked before but I don't recall seeing a reply to it)

4. Several people have stated that Mozume doesn't give Villager to buddies/husbands. I think it can still be passed to children though?

Since I don't have the game either, and so many people say so many conflicting things, it's really hard to tell who has the right facts and who doesn't. I don't think we'll ever have 100% conclusive information until someone formulates a proper experiment with an example of every single possible scenario and formally organizes the results.

1. I had been told otherwise, so this definitely changes things. If this has been confirmed, I need to go back and change up some builds, lol.

3. Are there any other overlaps besides Berkla x Arthur and Zero x Nyx? I didn't see any others besides those two. Also I think Shigure gets Rod Knight regardless, since there is no case where Azura can be paired with someone with both Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight.

4. That's why i said "I believe", since I am still rather unsure about this one.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TheWerdna

[Azz]

I believe Villager works like Dark Prince(ss).It is not buddy seal-able or marriage seal-able but it does pass down to kids.

[astrophys]

Someone did a test for me to figure out what Tsubaki x Aqua would give, as Matoi is in a similar position to Shigure (already has the Pegasus secondary that Aqua would normally give)…

As it turns out, Aqua!Matoi gets Rod Knight from her mother, according to what I was told by the experimenter, although as I'm relying on what they told me from their own experiment, this is strictly secondhand knowledge on my part.

[Bovinian]

3. Are there any other overlaps besides Berkla x Arthur and Zero x Nyx? I didn't see any others besides those two. Also I think Shigure gets Rod Knight regardless, since there is no case where Azura can be paired with someone with both Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight.

There doesn't appear to be any others, if I'm not mistaken. There are no compatible couples other than Zero x Nyx who share the same primary + secondary. The only way to get a Belka x Arthur situation is if the child starts as a class that the fixed parent doesn't have; the only children this applies to are Lutz, Shinonome, and Midoriko. No parent has the class combination of Lance Fighter+Samurai or Herb Merchant+Ninja.

Someone did a test for me to figure out what Tsubaki x Aqua would give, as Matoi is in a similar position to Shigure (already has the Pegasus secondary that Aqua would normally give)…

As it turns out, Aqua!Matoi gets Rod Knight from her mother, according to what I was told by the experimenter, although as I'm relying on what they told me from their own experiment, this is strictly secondhand knowledge on my part.

It may be that in Aqua's case, Rod Knight is just the replacement of Singer for secondary inheritance purposes. Kinda like Troubadour was often a replacement for Barbarian in Awakening when male parents passed down classes to female children. But only for child inheritance and not for marriage/buddy sealing, where she would give Peg instead.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bovinian

[TheWerdna]

There doesn't appear to be any others, if I'm not mistaken. There are no compatible couples other than Zero x Nyx who share the same primary + secondary. The only way to get a Belka x Arthur situation is if the child starts as a class that the fixed parent doesn't have; the only children this applies to are Lutz, Shinonome, and Midoriko. No parent has the class combination of Lance Fighter+Samurai or Herb Merchant+Ninja.

Well, as it turns out I will almost certainly be pairing Zero and Nyx now. The resulting Eponne can get Breaking Sky, Tomefaire, Luna (inherited from Nyx, who would pick it up through A+ing Effie) and two other skills (could use suggestions on this). as that would make her a really strong offensive unit. Also only way to get spellcaster on the nohr route.

Also, someone who has to game, go test Belka x Arthur please.

Edited July 13, 2015 by TheWerdna