General US Politics

[Water Mage]

6 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

You also further my point that if your going to just see me as a radical and NOT FOCUS on the real problem that is still persisting, that you are being complacent. You are ok with coexisting with it since you won't go out of your way to stop it. So the next time a person is raped i want you to remember, YOU SAID OK TO IT. You gave that murderer or robber the thumbs up. You gave that person who physically abused their partner, the thumbs up.

You’re completely missing the point. THE ATTITUDE YOU ARE ENCOURAGING WILL ONLY MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE!

It’s impossible to know when those things will happen, and killing every criminal will only create a society that is fearful of doing anything!

Have you ever killed someone before? Do you go out everyday to seek criminals to kill?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Water Mage

[RandomJC]

9 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

(HINT: Now that alcohol is legal and you can walk into any lawfully operated liquor store in America to buy beer and whiskey. When was the last time you heard of horrific violence being carried out by roving gangs of bootleggers???)

(In an attempt to lighten the mood)

Does the reality show Moonshiners count as horrific crime?

[Tryhard]

12 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

On a side note, i'm not talking about enjoying killing. but how do you think our soldiers come home and justify what they have done over seas? Hence why they are decorated and praised. They sacrifice their soul and mental state so that regular people can live in peace and have freedom. I don't think we acknowledge that part enough.

To say it in the most straightforward way, if the military of the US is defending citizens freedom, they have done or are doing a piss poor job of it. Justify is the right word because those offensive wars were unnecessary.

Hence why soldiers came back with PTSD at what they had done and seen. And yet it was never for citizens or regular peoples benefit - it was for corrupt interest groups and the elite.

"They're fighting for your freedom" has been an excuse for a long time.

10 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

You are ok with coexisting with it since you won't go out of your way to stop it. So the next time a person is raped i want you to remember, YOU SAID OK TO IT. You gave that murderer or robber the thumbs up. You gave that person who physically abused their partner, the thumbs up.

I believe in at least the chance for rehabilitation except for extreme cases. It doesn't mean I condone anything, and rapists should still get many years in jail, I think that should be obvious. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Tryhard

[Tediz64]

Look i know what i'm saying is SUPER radical and extreme. I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT behind ANY IDEA that gets rid of pain and suffering. It we happen to figure a way out that doesn't involve inflicting MORE pain and suffering then i PROMISE you, i'll throw my time, effort, money, and resources into it. But NOBODY wants to bring any new ideas to the table. Instead y'all want to pick apart my idea. I don't see any changes happening. I don't see any organizations having written on the wall at the entrance with a slogan or goal that is "lets reduce crime by 1% today!". Pitch ideas people! I'll get behind them

[Shoblongoo]

Just now, Tediz64 said:

 I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT behind ANY IDEA that gets rid of pain and suffering. 

Genocide inflicts pain and suffering ya dingus 

[Tediz64]

@Shoblongoo I know! I don't like my idea sometimes either! But instead of just being like "oh well your idea is horrible, we aren't going to do that"......*awkward silence and time passes while no new idea is presented*....ya see how that bothers me? Its called complacency. Its called doing nothing. Which to me in my head, sounds a whole lot like condoning it. Or ignoring it saying it isn't important enough to think about let alone do something about it. Yet then we have people crying at funerals and everyone wants to play the blame game. Especially considering that we have crime clocks and its 2018 and these numbers are super high.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Tediz64

[RandomJC]

3 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Look i know what i'm saying is SUPER radical and extreme. I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT behind ANY IDEA that gets rid of pain and suffering. It we happen to figure a way out that doesn't involve inflicting MORE pain and suffering then i PROMISE you, i'll throw my time, effort, money, and resources into it. But NOBODY wants to bring any new ideas to the table. Instead y'all want to pick apart my idea. I don't see any changes happening. I don't see any organizations having written on the wall at the entrance with a slogan or goal that is "lets reduce crime by 1% today!". Pitch ideas people! I'll get behind them

You do know you're idea isn't new, right? You aren't bringing anything new to the table either. That whenever this has been done before it ended badly, is why people are picking apart you're idea.

[Water Mage]

4 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Look i know what i'm saying is SUPER radical and extreme. I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT behind ANY IDEA that gets rid of pain and suffering. It we happen to figure a way out that doesn't involve inflicting MORE pain and suffering then i PROMISE you, i'll throw my time, effort, money, and resources into it. But NOBODY wants to bring any new ideas to the table. Instead y'all want to pick apart my idea. I don't see any changes happening. I don't see any organizations having written on the wall at the entrance with a slogan or goal that is "lets reduce crime by 1% today!". Pitch ideas people! I'll get behind them

People try to come with such methods everyday, but frankly it’s impossible concept. People have different beliefs and ideals so there will be a way that everyone will agree with. 

And do you haven’t come up with more peaceful methods? Before demanding things of others, saying they aren’t trying, try it for yourself.

[Karimlan]

Amusing that one person wishes to go to the extreme for reasons of safety and brings up Roman times. Here's a quote from Edward Gibbon to knock sense into you:

from "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

 

If this doesn't ring a bell, Hermann Göring presented the flip side of this on Gustave Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary, and it was alluded to in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, of all places.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Karimlan

[Tediz64]

@Water Mage Also i HAVE DONE SOMETHING! My line of work lets me prevent crime every day and save/help people. Putting aside my job as a regular civilian i also  prevented one rape! (won't go into the details). I prevented one case of domestic abuse (long story short, i heard/saw what was happening and ran up to the person and pulled out my phone a few yards away from them saying i have my camera on and i'm calling the police right now plus i had my baseball bat with me and told them to back away. i was barely 19 at this time and still had the balls to do something before my job changed my life).

I won't keep going but basically i do something about it locally. Every day. As often as i can

Edited June 20, 2018 by Tediz64

[Shoblongoo]

3 hours ago, Balcerzak said:

I mean, it's also important to remember that for the first 100 years, while the immigration policy was as open as you say it was, the country was also abusing relations with native americans to expand and take their land. By the timeline you presented, it looks as if the time immigrant restrictions started coming in hard was also around the time the Pacific had been hit and there was no more "free" expansion to be had. Unlimited immigrant entry doesn't come without cost. Given the choice to go back in time and change things, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable advocating free entrance for all if it meant endorsing exploitation of the native population. 

True enough and fair points. Two things.

1) The nature and enforcement of the laws--i.e. targeted exclusion and removal of Asian immigrants with no corresponding action against Europeans--makes it rather clear that the concern in implementing immigration controls was not that with the end of Westward Expansion, American could not accommodate new populations. It was that we didn't want rapidly growing new populations to be non-white. That was the concern and function of the law. 

2) The two limitations that have historically made otherwise beneficial population growth (which generally improves the productivity and power of a nation) counterproductive is shortage of food and shortage of living space.

America is not short on living space. We still have enormous expanses of scarcely populated land outside the major cities, and rapidly expanding suburbs around the urban population centers growing out into the countryside.

Nor are we facing a food shortage. In fact we have a historically unprecedented surplus. Presently the American Midwest is far-and-away the most productive agricultural land in the World; no one else even comes in close second atm. America today produces so much food that we presently trade it away to other nations as one of our primary exports, in the modern global economy.

This being the case, I do not believe that our ability to accommodate + grow off of new population has in any way diminished since the golden age of immigration.

The operative change is in the ethnicity of the populations to be assimilated.  That is what makes the nativists so uncomfortable; the looming prospect of losing the white majority.

(Which I daresay is a rather lousy reason to be taking the actions we've been taking, with our immigration laws and treatment of migrants)

Edited June 20, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[RandomJC]

18 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

You also further my point that if your going to just see me as a radical and NOT FOCUS on the real problem that is still persisting, that you are being complacent. You are ok with coexisting with it since you won't go out of your way to stop it. So the next time a person is raped i want you to remember, YOU SAID OK TO IT. You gave that murderer or robber the thumbs up. You gave that person who physically abused their partner, the thumbs up. @RandomJC wants people to suffer/hurt and doesn't want to do anything about it. Go ahead. Keep looking the other way and ignore as it happens all around you. Once it happens to your family or friends then it'll be other people's turn to look the other way while you cry for justice. 

So, I completely ignored this at first, but hey, Let's move past the fact that I didn't say it was okay to rape someone. Or that I didn't say I wouldn't go out of my way to stop it. That saying I don't think KILLING someone is the right action isn't the same as being complacent and being okay with evil acts.

Let's go past that horseshit, and move on to the fact you don't know me, or my life, and how dare you act like I've never had tragedy strike in my life? You don't know what's happened to me, or my family, or my friends. The pain I've personally known. How that's shaped me as a person. You'd rather strawman and contort what I've said to further promote you're own twisted beliefs.

And for your information, yes, I have known that pain, I have had to live through it. And I still don't think killing another person is the right, or "just" thing to do. So go shove your sanctimonious radical extreme ideas up your rearend and don't you ever dare speak about my life, or my family again like that.

[Water Mage]

2 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

@Water Mage Also i HAVE DONE SOMETHING! My line of work lets me prevent crime every day and save/help people. Putting aside my job as a regular civilian i also  prevented one rape! (won't go into the details). I prevented one case of domestic abuse (long story short, i heard/saw what was happening and ran up to the person and pulled out my phone a few yards away from them saying i have my camera on and i'm calling the police right now plus i had my baseball bat with me and told them to back away. i was barely 19 at this time and still had the balls to do something before my job changed my life).

I won't keep going but basically i do something about it locally. Every day. As often as i can

Well what is your line of work?

And what you did while commendable, you’re not reaching the source of the problem. And killing criminals also will not destroy what make criminals in the first place, but rather you’re paving the way for more criminals.

[Tediz64]

@RandomJC ok so if you have the experience and know what it is like, more so now that before you REALLY don't care about other people and what is happening all around us. You'd pick apart my idea and not even in one response present your own idea? Offer a way to help/save others? If i'm wrong, if i'm radical, and i'm not in the right by saying this is our only option/choice right now, make me right! I just said i'd throw in with any idea that helps. I'd put my time, effort, resources, and etc it if meant making a difference.  Yet you still passed up that chance to help people. Ergo; complacent and doesn't care about other's suffering. Ergo; you condone it. 

[Shoblongoo]

...yeah I'm sorry @Tediz64, but its not binary options between complacency that bad things are happening and lets go murderfuck entire populations. 

Justification of sweeping persecutions and state-sponsored violence against broad classes of persons on a theory of necessity to promote the interests of public safety is full-on fascism. 

That's some Nazi shit--terrible idea. 
 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Water Mage]

I have to echo @Shoblongoo‘s statement. @Tediz64 the idea you’re proposing is very similar to what the Nazis were trying to do. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Water Mage

[RandomJC]

2 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

@RandomJC ok so if you have the experience and know what it is like, more so now that before you REALLY don't care about other people and what is happening all around us. You'd pick apart my idea and not even in one response present your own idea? Offer a way to help/save others? If i'm wrong, if i'm radical, and i'm not in the right by saying this is our only option/choice right now, make me right! I just said i'd throw in with any idea that helps. I'd put my time, effort, resources, and etc it if meant making a difference.  Yet you still passed up that chance to help people. Ergo; complacent and doesn't care about other's suffering. Ergo; you condone it. 

Donate time and energy to children's centers, the youth groups. Time to impoverished schools as a mentor to young kids, give them dreams and hopes beyond their impoverished beginnings. Do positive things, help people, time and effort into these actions, have noted effects, positive ones. It's been proven time and again, that all it takes is one person willing to help those less fortunate can make all the difference in the world.

It's what I do. It's how I show I care. I help them. I visit these kids. I tutor them. I play games. I give them happiness in a world filled with pain. It's what my life has taught me, my pain has taught me. That doing good, being there for kids who need someone does so much. It saves lives.

And I much rather save lives than take them. So again, don't you dare ever speak about my life, and what I do, when you don't have any clue.

[Tediz64]

Again....please let me reiterate, i'll completely pitch in like roughly about 50% of my time, effort, resources, and etc to any idea that makes the world a better place. I also want to add lets please do that RIGHT NOW. No putting it on hold. No waiting. No being complacent. No condoning it. No allowing it. The time for change should have happened a long time ago. Even before the fbi came out with some "crime clock" to literally measure how often shit is hitting the fan. I know we can't achieve 100% peace but lets reduce crime down to like staggering small numbers. We can agree like on a goal of one rape per week, a murder per month, one assault per day. Those numbers now though are just absolutely horrendous. @Shoblongoo @Water Mage @RandomJC

 

Also i'm speaking in terms of now us as in US here on serenes forest. I know we aren't political figures or have the influence necessary to change the world, but i was talking in retrospect back to the earlier discussion on border crossing and how our leaders suck and quite frankly, shit is bad and nobody is doing something about it. (i want to add more to this post but alot of notifications are coming in so i'll hit post now and read more)

[Karimlan]

11 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Justification of sweeping persecutions and state-sponsored violence against broad classes of persons on a theory of necessity to promote the interests of public safety is full-on fascism. 
 

 

If my preceding quote about Gibbon doesn't hammer the point @Shoblongoo made home, look no further than what's happening in the Philippines. We have a "strongman" who preened and postured about change, and pretty much is still riding high on a circus of sycophants and ass-kissers who toe the line and continue to line their pockets while silencing the opposition, killing dissenters and parades about his "right" to do so—all in the name of a drug war wherein the destitute are the ones on queue at the morgues, and the rich crooks go scot-free.

I can go on, but then we're talking about US politics.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Karimlan

[Tediz64]

8 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Donate time and energy to children's centers, the youth groups. Time to impoverished schools as a mentor to young kids, give them dreams and hopes beyond their impoverished beginnings. Do positive things, help people, time and effort into these actions, have noted effects, positive ones. It's been proven time and again, that all it takes is one person willing to help those less fortunate can make all the difference in the world.

It's what I do. It's how I show I care. I help them. I visit these kids. I tutor them. I play games. I give them happiness in a world filled with pain. It's what my life has taught me, my pain has taught me. That doing good, being there for kids who need someone does so much. It saves lives.

And I much rather save lives than take them. So again, don't you dare ever speak about my life, and what I do, when you don't have any clue.

Well you certainly didn't start off with that. So then there wasn't a need for me to say anything to you except the part where i needed to defend my statement of basically let;s hear some ideas, let;s hear what people are doing, and let;s get this ball rolling. Ok so you're a good person. You're making a difference (if all of what your saying is true). Great. I like you. Keep up the good work. What you're doing is good and benefits lots of people. But now, we need to address our leaders and how poor of a job they are doing and not helping the needy. I want to focus on the fact that there are thousands who are NOT LIKE YOU @RandomJC . They aren't helping or pitching to make the world better. That in itself is a problem. Other people are ignoring the pain and suffering of millions. 

[Shoblongoo]

 

2 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Again....please let me reiterate, i'll completely pitch in like roughly about 50% of my time, effort, resources, and etc to any idea that makes the world a better place. I also want to add lets please do that RIGHT NOW. No putting it on hold. No waiting. No being complacent. No condoning it. No allowing it. The time for change should have happened a long time ago.

There's an old saying that my legal ethics professor was rather fond of: "widows and orphans make bad law."

When you make reactionary policy thinking Look at this awful thing that just happened. We have to do SOMETHING. Things are so shit; anything must be better then the status quo. And you bum-rush a policy change just for the sake of doing something quickly, without actually bothering to do a proper cost-benefit analysis on what exactly you're proposing.

That's how you wind up with truly terrible laws and policies.

To make a progressive change is better then to condone and be complacent.

But I'd rather wait and uphold the status quo then charge headlong into a poorly thought out, hastily designed response that is going to make more problems then it solves. 

 

[Tediz64]

I know in a rush, i can come off as narrow-minded and ignorant, but it makes me truly happy to hear @RandomJC you are active in the community and want to make the world better. But sadly, not enough people are like that. Sadly nobody wants to help and will look the other ways while some suffer. Our leaders need to reflect that we are making a difference. That we are paving the path to a better future. I want people ACTIVE. I want people to help. I get worked up when i hear people not care or do anything and immediately i start blaming the evils of this world on their care-free attitude. Our world is filled with evil and all i want is peace and quiet and a day that can pass where not a single person in the world was sad for just 24 hours. Sadly every day at my job i deal with crime, pain, suffering, and people mourning. It tears me up on the inside. I wish i could have been there before it went down so i could have prevented it. I come after the call has been made, and now it have a shit show to clean up and make better. It tears me up knowing that we could change the world IF ONLY enough of us cared and pitched in.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Tediz64

[RandomJC]

1 minute ago, Tediz64 said:

Well you certainly didn't start off with that. So then there wasn't a need for me to say anything to you except the part where i needed to defend my statement of basically let;s hear some ideas, let;s hear what people are doing, and let;s get this ball rolling. Ok so you're a good person. You're making a difference (if all of what your saying is true). Great. I like you. Keep up the good work. What you're doing is good and benefits lots of people. But now, we need to address our leaders and how poor of a job they are doing and not helping the needy. I want to focus on the fact that there are thousands who are NOT LIKE YOU @RandomJC . They aren't helping or pitching to make the world better. That in itself is a problem. Other people are ignoring the pain and suffering of millions. 

You mean, I had to lead off with my resume, instead of you just assuming I do nothing? That you can't even apologize for making assumptions about me, and my life? You understand that I didn't just tell you all that to get a pack on the back, right? That the reason I don't say just say that is because I DON'T want some validation from some random on the internet. My life is my own, and I like having it be my private life, not some way of validating myself in some argument.

So if you really want to help, maybe be a decent human being first. Don't assume the worst in every person, and apologize when you mess up. Then actually do something with your time and money, help people. I've told you something you can do, I've brought an idea to your table instead of picking apart yours. And now you've shifted the argument again.

Look, I'm done with you. You judge those before you known them, and aren't adult enough to own up to your mistakes and apologize for them. And I don't have time for people who rather think the worst of me before they even know who I am.

 

[Shoblongoo]

...alright....

2 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

My idea on going to other countries and committing genocide is what i have to bring to the table. Are you coming up with any ideas on saving the people or making the lives of 7.9 billion (i think that is our current population on earth) better/peaceful?

^^^
Lets all just step back, acknowledge that this was a poorly worded and rather hair-brained idea, and move on.

Water-under-the-bridge  

[Tediz64]

@RandomJC Well i am sorry. Not that it matters much but such is the way things go. I don't have your perspective anymore since i'm not a regular civilian. All i deal with every day (except my days off) is the after math of people having their lives changed. I can totally own up to it. I own up to the fact that i lost hope and faith in people. i don't believe in good-will. I don't see it enough. Sorry i pushed you so far. Also i like your ideas but those aren't my cup of tea. I'm already doing something and i'm content with the little change i can push out within my local community. What i was getting worked up over earlier though was the fact that the larger part of society isn't doing anything.