General US Politics

[Ansem]

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/?q=iraq|baghdad|basra|mosoul&mfrom=&mto=&title=&notitle=&date_from=&date_to=&nofrom=&noto=&count=50&sort=0#searchresult

guys we got the emails

look at how scandalous they are!!!!!!!!111

[Life]

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/?q=iraq|baghdad|basra|mosoul&mfrom=&mto=&title=&notitle=&date_from=&date_to=&nofrom=&noto=&count=50&sort=0#searchresult

guys we got the emails

look at how scandalous they are!!!!!!!!111

Actually, there's one that I'm reading which tells me that Hillary Clinton actively deceives the public regarding foreign affairs in Saudi Arabia.

The email isn't incriminating itself but it is pretty shady and unethical.

[CervusOpimusSilvae]

All things said and done... as crazy as it sounds, I would prefer Trump to Hilary. I politically identify mostly as libertarian constitutionalist, and in terms of that.. a lot of things is pick your poison this time around. That said... what it comes down to for me is that trump has faced a lot of the accusations thrown at him head on, so far, Hilary has really done nothing other than hide behind the "woman" card, I wouldn't mind so much if the list of things she still has yet to answer for wasn't so damn long.

Not to mention, when you decide to stop watching the abridged news versions of Trumps speeches and such, he stops sounding 'racist', and starts sounding more nationalist. Heck... even a lot of his more 'outrageous' quotes are actually rather reasonable.

"Wants to deport millions of people."

When you consider these potential millions are illegal immigrants, and if you've read up on the justice system, and what happens should one of these millions commit a crime, this one tends to make a lot more sense. Bearing in mind that it changes a few things up when it comes to criminal procedure (Notably, the right to bail, as well as having to call the home country for diplomatic reasons as well as identification) , there's also the fact that a lot of constitutional amendments do not apply due to lack of citizenship, as well as the court would have little to no idea of the defendant's past misdemeanors.

Yeah, I identify as a paleocon, and Trump is better from the small government side of things as opposed to Hillary. Both are authoritarians, but I do think Trump would be somewhat better. It's true that hating him is almost just, "All the cool news sources kids are doing it." It's just one big meme.

The way I see it, he takes the most outrageous position he can, and if it helps him with the demographics he wants, he sticks to his guns, and if it doesn't he slowly walks it back over the next few interviews. He and Pence are keen on the touch-back deportation (You gotta leave! ...and then you can come back legally.). I'm hoping he gets a good budget slasher in his cabinet/advisers, because the debt could get very bad, very fast if the conditions are right. But I still trust the odds of that to be better with Trump.

Worst comes to worst, we stomach 4 years of either of them, and then maybe a Ron Paul type guy shows up and makes some waves. If Trump wins, it'd be harder to give somebody else the nom in 2020, but Regan almost got Ford in 1976, so who knows?

[Crysta]

"All the kids paying attention are doing it."

Fix'd.

Outside of genuine policy disagreements (legit), practically everything you can hate about Hillary you can pretty much hate about Trump ten times over. He is far more dishonest and opportunistic than Hillary like on a daily basis; he's just held to a much lower standard because he isn't a "politician" (he totally is lol). Bold-faced lies are practically a staple of his and his position flip-flops are well-documented (and I guarantee you will see more of them if he's elected).

As for his business success... the dude was born into one of the wealthiest families in America and managed to bankrupt two bloody casinos. I think people are looking at his piles of money and giving him too much credit in that regard.

[tuvarkz]

Fix'd.

Outside of genuine policy disagreements (legit), practically everything you can hate about Hillary you can pretty much hate about Trump ten times over. He is far more dishonest and opportunistic than Hillary like on a daily basis; he's just held to a much lower standard because he isn't a "politician" (he totally is lol). Bold-faced lies are practically a staple of his and his position flip-flops are well-documented (and I guarantee you will see more of them if he's elected).

As for his business success... the dude was born into one of the wealthiest families in America and managed to bankrupt two bloody casinos. I think people are looking at his piles of money and giving him too much credit in that regard.

Trump has often mentioned he's open to negotiating about non-core issues, and he's been pretty stable on the big things on his campaign: Destroy ISIS and otherwise reduce military intervention, build the wall and deport illegal immigrants, temporary ban on muslim immigration from the war zones until the situation is figured out, aid the veterans, take direct measures to help small business, fair trade.

Bankrupcies? Oh, you mean the ones that were only called bankrupcies due to a legality and were more re-structurations than anything? And to note, it all happened in the middle of a period where the entire casino industry was struggling. Politifact

And having a couple bankrupcies that account to little don't count for much when most of his businesses have been succesful.

[Crysta]

Casinos were struggling in the early nineties? Why?

They're going to cleverly frame the flip-flopping as merely "pivoting"; it's the same damn thing lol.

[dondon151]

lmfao tuvarkz you're justifying trump's casino bankruptcies with the excuse of a struggling casino industry

doesn't that mean that the smart business decision would've been to, you know

not dump your money into a struggling industry

l-m-f-a-o

The way I see it, he takes the most outrageous position he can, and if it helps him with the demographics he wants, he sticks to his guns, and if it doesn't he slowly walks it back over the next few interviews.

you mean he makes a gaffe, then claims ignorance about gaffe or shifts the blame onto the people calling him out

how is this a good thing anyway? it's just an indication that trump doesn't know shit. he's a dogwhistler without a dogwhistle.

I'm hoping he gets a good budget slasher in his cabinet/advisers, because the debt could get very bad, very fast if the conditions are right. But I still trust the odds of that to be better with Trump.

you really think that a trump presidency is more likely to resolve the national debt than a clinton presidency

even though the previous clinton presidency was the only time in recent (~40 year) history where the government operated at a surplus

Edited July 18, 2016 by dondon151

[tuvarkz]

lmfao tuvarkz you're justifying trump's casino bankruptcies with the excuse of a struggling casino industry

doesn't that mean that the smart business decision would've been to, you know

not dump your money into a struggling industry

l-m-f-a-o

The Trump casino business started in the mid 80s, and to note, it wasn't just a struggling casino industry, but the whole recession around the 87-93 years, in which the interest rates on the loans he had taken to build the Trump Taj Mahal became unmanageable. Trump even managed to cut his losses, effectively taking no damage to his personal assets.

Also, a cut on corporate tax rate and not trying to mess up with minimal wages is going to encourage both big and medium/small business investing in the US, which will help revitalize the economy. And insofar, Trump has proven quite efficient at spending money in campaigning. And a 10-25 billion dollar (lowest and highest estimate, neutral sources say 15b) wall isn't exactly going to bankrupt the economy.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Maybe it's just me, but I find the arguments about Trump's financial capabilities have become annoyingly exaggerated on both sides. He's not the infallible genius his supporters seem to think he is, but the degree to which his detractors paint him as stupid and incompetent is getting a little out of hand.

For what it's worth though, running a business and running a country are two very different things and whatever skill Trump has in business doesn't necessarily indicate that he'll be a good President.

[Crysta]

The recession was in the late 1970's and into the 1980's. Trump's Taj Mahal saw completion in 1990 and went bankrupt in 1991. I don't think that really holds up. Unless I'm missing one I think that was his first bankruptcy.

And he still fails at it even when the business is thriving anyway. (also contradicts what you said about casinos failing at that time period)

I've seen Trump's business credentials come under very little scrutiny because of the assumption that if he's rich he must be good at it; and because it makes for far less sensational/interesting headlines than whatever controversy he decided to drum up that week.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Crysta

[Alertcircuit]

I'm going to make my case against Trump right here, now that there's enough evidence for me to articulate most of how I feel.

TRUMP DOESN'T ACTUALLY WANT TO BE PRESIDENT, HE JUST WANTS TO WIN

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

The Art of the Deal ghostwriter Tony Schwartz claims that not only is being President likely just a vehicle for Trump to get attention and praise, but also that he "has no attention span." This is a man who seems disinterested in learning policy but interested in being a headline. And these claims were just backed up by the Kasich camp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html

Donald Trump Jr. was on the phone with a Kasich advisor to try to convince Kasich to be Trump's VP. This makes sense, Kasich has less baggage than anyone else on the VP shortlist, and he'd be Trump's gateway to Ohio and the Midwest.

"Donald Jr. wanted to make him an offer nonetheless: Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?

When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.

Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?

“Making America great again” was the casual reply."

It seems like Donald essentially wants to be a figurehead President, a Queen Elizabeth. He wants the attention of being President, and he wants to do all the appearances, without having to do any of the "boring" work. He can go out and give speeches on his soapbox while Pence, the advisors, and the cabinet conduct the policy work. This election could very well not be between President Trump and President Hillary, but between co-Presidents Trump/Pence and President Hillary.

Basically, the idea that Donald is in it for the people and Hillary is not, is wrong. Donald is in it for himself. Because it sounds cool to be able to say "I'm the President" and occasionally change a thing. Is Hillary in it for the people? Maybe not, but she's doing a better job at hiding it than Trump.

MIKE PENCE

So what do we know about possible co-President Pence? He signed a law to make it mandatory to conduct a funeral for every aborted fetus. He cost the state of Indiana $60 million in revenue because of his gay witch hunt. He allowed business owners to discriminate against gay people on the basis of religion, which there turned out to be quite a few of. And now this minority group feels endangered and attacked. But it's worth it, because you as a business owner can turn down a gay person who wants a cake! He thinks the Disney film Mulan is propaganda by a "mischievous liberal" trying to push women serving in the military, despite Mulan being a millennia-old Chinese legend. He also said smoking doesn't kill, because 2 out of 3 smokers don't die from smoking related illness. This is 100% a real thing he said. http://web.archive.org/web/20010415085348/http://mikepence.com/smoke.html

Naturally, I'm a little wary of Governor Pence here.

Mike Pence is also hawkish and voted for the Iraq war, a thing which Trump is quick to pardon despite hammering Clinton and the Bushes over the head with it.

CABINET

Since we're talking about the VP, let's move on to his cabinet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/03/11/donald-trump-thinks-ben-carson-is-an-education-expert-oy-vey/

Ben Carson, the evolution denier, apparently has a pretty good shot at leading the Department of Education. This is the guy who wants to wipe AP US History clean of anything that makes America look bad because kids will become "ready to join ISIS" by the end of the course. Keep in mind that like the first third of American History is us arguing over whether or not we should continue having slaves. Also throw in all the horrible things we did to Native Americans and the WW2 Japanese Internment Camps, and you'll realize that without the bad things, there are gonna be some noticeable gaps. We can't learn from our past mistakes if we pretend they didn't happen. This guy could be the Secretary of Education under a Trump presidency.

Support legalizing marijuana? Have fun trying to get that by Attorney General Chris Christie ever.

HIS PAST

Interestingly, Tony Schwartz notes that while writing 'Art of the Deal', he and Trump made him look more like a business mogul than he actually was. He had lots of mediocre deals, and there was a bit of riding the coattails of his father. Which brings me to the tax returns. Donald still has yet to release his tax returns. Part of the GOP's thing is calling Hillary a criminal, but isn't it weird that Donald seems a bit defensive with his tax returns? Is there tax evasion going on? Is he hiding them to keep the illusion up that he's worth as much as he says he is?

Which brings me to a Mark Cuban interview that aired on the Late Show last night. Mark Cuban is a quintessential "rose to the top" business man. He started in a working class family but is now worth $3.2 billion dollars, no parental "small loans of a million dollars" to be seen. and last night he said something that I thought was interesting. Where are all of Trump's business partners? If Trump's entire single credential is that he's a businessman, why aren't there business partners coming to speak in his favor? What's going on there? Seeing how many random people made the RNC stage, it would be nice to see people who've actually worked with Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqMzX4_1Eg

EGO / INABILITY TO ADMIT FAILURE

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/05/donald-trumps-star-david-tweet-recap/

Donald has a comically large ego, one that would probably hurt our reputation. He posted a graphic about "Crooked Hillary" with money in the background and a six-pointed star. When people found out this graphic came from a white supremacist neo-nazi board, instead of being a responsible adult and going "That's my bad. I wasn't really paying attention to the star, and I'll make sure none of my graphics are from that board anymore," he goes "Nah, it's a sheriff star!" I guarantee you Trump didn't pick out that image and go "Hey, that's a sheriff star." The Trump campaign just gives these stupid answers to accusations. Apparently Melania Trump's speech was actually from Twilight Sparkle? Sometimes it's better to say "It was an accident" and leave it at that.

And that's not the only questionable shit he's retweeted. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/donald-trump/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

Which brings me to

BIGOTRY

"That must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees." "Women: You have to treat them like shit." "There was blood coming out of her eyes, her wherever." (By the way, that's another accusation he gave a dumb answer to, saying he really meant ears) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKmhK8G--7c

Donald seems to be a not-so-subtle proponent of the idea that women are only worth their looks and home-ec skills. When he said about Fiorina "Who will vote for that face?", it's because for him, the ultimate insult to a woman is to call her unattractive.

"I like kids. I mean, I won't do anything to take care of them. I'll supply the funds, and she'll take care of the kids." This combined with that interview where he talked about how he gets mad when his wife doesn't have dinner ready when he gets home, leads me to believe that he is very much a "women were made for the home" guy.

We can talk about how racial the Obama birther movement was, but that's been done to death.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-courtship-of-black-voters-hampered-by-decades-of-race-controversies/2016/07/19/d9822250-4d2e-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

"Laziness is a trait in blacks, I believe that." The quotes about black people are from a book, from the account of one of his Casino owners, so there's a chance they're fake, but considering how racially tinged his rhetoric is, I feel like they're worth an appearance here.

The Muslim ban and the wall have been talked about to death, so I'm going to just mention that his rhetoric creates a toxic environment for minorities. This is the guy who offers to pay legal fees when supporters beat up protestors, and reminisces on the days when "protestors were carried out in stretchers." He's done very little to disavow the white supremacists and confederate flag wavers that support him, so his "I'm the least racist person you've ever met" claims just don't hold water for me.

GLOBAL WARMING

Donald Trump thinks global warming is a Chinese conspiracy theory. That thing that could actually make the Earth uninhabitable if we don't do anything about it. He also hasn't spoken out against fracking, which will poison water supplies to the point that filtering won't help. Super Flint water crisis nationwide. This alone pushes me to Clinton 100%. She may be more lax on energy than I want her to be, but at least she's doing something.

TAX PLAN

Trump wants to greatly reduce spending, but that's just not going to happen. The three biggest government spending whales are Social Security, Medicare, and the Military. We know he won't reduce the third, and if his advisors are any good at advising, he won't reduce the first two, because a huge part of the Republican base is old people and they're not going to want to re-elect you if you take their paychecks and healthcare away. After that we come to Interest on Debt, which you can do nothing about, and Veteran Benefits, which again, if he's smart he wouldn't dare touch at least until his second term. I guess he could cut Food, Housing, Transportation, and Education, but that wouldn't make up for the huge loss of revenue his tax plan would seem to bring.

OBLIGATORY "NUCLEAR CODES" AND FOREIGN RELATIONS POINT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eXRXL0nkk

Donald suggests we give Japan and South Korea nukes, to which Japan and South Korea responded with what equates to "Oh God no". He wants to go after ISIS members' families, which is a war crime. When asked about dropping nukes in Europe, Donald said he "wouldn't take cards off the table." He's already pissing off the Mexican government. Add in Tony Schwartz's claim that Trump has a tiny attention span, and I'm a bit scared.

Either he's a warmonger, or just really dumb, maybe both.

BLATANT PANDERING/FLIP-FLOPS

"The Bible is my favorite book." says the guy who allegedly hasn't read a book in a really long time. "Veterans, they love me" says the guy who says that John McCain wasn't a hero because he was captured. "I'm the best for the gays" says the guy who wanted to overturn the Supreme Court's gay marriage decision and says he supports "traditional marriage."

One day he thinks the minimum wage is too low, the next he thinks it's too high. The only reason I think the Clinton campaign isn't making ads of these yet is because she's got some major flipflops too.

QUALIFICATIONS

Trump's only qualification is that he's a businessman, and as I wrote earlier, he's apparently not that great a one. He shows no interest in government and thinks policy is "boring." Hillary, on the other hand was a lawyer, a Senator. the First Lady, and the Secretary of State. Tons of experience in government. And even if her tenures as First Lady or Secretary were poor, from what I understand she was a pretty successful lawyer and Senator, and she comes off as a policy wonk. Contrast that with Trump who thinks the "Department of Environmental" is a thing, and I don't know, he's not looking so hot.

BULLY

Ted Cruz and I disagree on a lot of policy issues, but I admire him for what he did yesterday. Trump called Cruz's wife ugly on multiple occasions, said Cruz's dad helped kill JFK, just generally attacked Cruz on a personal level. He involved Cruz's family. And I admire Cruz for putting his foot down and not lining up behind him.

Trump also, in his own childish way, brought actual name-calling into the fold. Little Marco, Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted (Which is funny because according to Politifact Trump's a liar too). He gave out Lindsey Graham's personal phone number because he talked against him. Mitt Romney is a "choker." John McCain is "not a war hero" despite being captured and tortured for 5 years to defend his fellow airmen.

Remember when he mocked that disabled reporter? https://youtu.be/PX9reO3QnUA?t=17s

He's divided his party so much, that I'm not sure if he could get things done with a Republican Congress, let alone the incoming Democratic Senate.

So yeah, I think that's most of what I want to say.

[Moblin Major General]

The RNC showed its ass last night when Ted Cruz was booed off stage for giving sound advice. Sheeple these days...

[Phoenix Wright]

i don't know what you guys are talking about, ted cruz's speech was pretty disgraceful.

[tuvarkz]

BIGOTRY

"That must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees." "Women: You have to treat them like shit." "There was blood coming out of her eyes, her wherever." (By the way, that's another accusation he gave a dumb answer to, saying he really meant ears) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKmhK8G--7c

To note, sourcing the "Women: You have to treat them like shit." here: https://books.google.it/books?id=BeUCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=%22Marie+Brenner%22+trump+wine&source=bl&ots=tX3bn4ql8h&sig=o3lsFRig7dxSOfw6N79Zavz9izU&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=treat%20them%20like%20shit&f=false

And quoting the full paragraph

"His contempt for beautiful women who like to be abused is boundless, and he is full of stories of supermodels, women he might call twelves (not their size), clinging to a rock star's legs and the rock star kicking them away. You have to treat them like s---."

Given how Trump doesn't like people who think of themselves as average, it is very clear than him seeing people that he'd consider far beyond average acting to what amounts to masochistical self-deprecation must have clearly enraged him.

"Women: You have to treat them like shit." is a clear distortion of the quote, and left without context to boot.

EDIT: To note, the article then a couple pages later says

"Philip Johnson looks at his watch. He is going to Berlin this evening to design a building at Checkpoint Charlie. Trump is talking about women and says, 'You have to treat'em like shit'". The article does not mention at this point if this is said in the context of the previous paragraph, if Trump is talking as a generalization, or as part of the dating game back in those days (And from a few stories I've heard from adults about the day, treating potential 'dates' (aka probably one-night) with extreme disdain was a common tactic).

Edited July 21, 2016 by tuvarkz

[Lord Raven]

okay so what about the other two quotes

[tuvarkz]

Alright, related to 'drop to your knees' (Where indeed, the contestant does drop to her knees when begging Bret Michaels (who is a rock star)

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/250611-apprentice-contestant-doesnt-remember-trumps-on-your-knees

Youtube clip video for context:

“Brande came in here, “ Michaels said on the show, “She got down on her knees and said, ‘I passionately want to do this—' ”

“Excuse me, you dropped to your knees?” Trump interrupted.

“Yes,” Roderick responded.



“That must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees,” Trump said

This easily fits on Trump's contempt for self-deprecation of women (and to a rock star to boot).

Regarding the "blood out of her eyes"

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/08/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-blood-lemon-intv-ctn.cnn

I am not aware if there's a related english expression, and while a PMS joke would've been in bad taste, there's known information about the menstruation cycle causing hormonal imbalances which can indeed lead to irritability and other psychological alterations, even if temporarily.

And to note "A person who is flat chested is very hard to be a ten." On a ten out of ten system that probably only rates physical beauty, "very hard to be a ten" is a general assumption, given that these kinds of ratings tend to take a bell curve. To boot, an eight or a nine could still be considered fairly attractive, and a 6/7 passable by most assumptions; and he doesn't say 'impossible', but 'very hard'. I will not go deeply into the arguments about breast size, but I'll mention that even people that prefer small breasts don't exactly want them flat either as a general rule.

Given the hour, I'll probably finish discussing the rest of the argument against Trump after a night's sleep, if you don't mind. It was just an urgent correction that needed immediate amending that came to mind.

Edited July 21, 2016 by tuvarkz

[Life]

I love how everyone is now trying to argue how terrible the other side is and that their candidate is suddenly great.

Can't we admit that both sides are shit and you're trying to pick the less smelly turd of the two?

[Moblin Major General]

I love how everyone is now trying to argue how terrible the other side is and that their candidate is suddenly great.

Can't we admit that both sides are shit and you're trying to pick the less smelly turd of the two?

The unfortunate thing is that the safety of your home country hinges on this election, and that you could get easily screwed by Trump or Hillary.

[CyborgZeta]

The unfortunate thing is that the safety of your home country hinges on this election, and that you could get easily screwed by Trump or Hillary.

Are you talking about Israel? Israel will be safe regardless of who wins.

If there's one nice thing I'd say about Israel, it is that their military is extremely capable, and doesn't mess around.

[Life]

The unfortunate thing is that the safety of your home country hinges on this election, and that you could get easily screwed by Trump or Hillary.

Naw, it doesn't.

Eventually, there will be enough Arabs everywhere that want us dead that they'll just convince every country to act against us.

We're Jews, we're not allowed to be liked.

[Snowy_One]

I like Jews.

[Phoenix Wright]

"Philip Johnson looks at his watch. He is going to Berlin this evening to design a building at Checkpoint Charlie. Trump is talking about women and says, 'You have to treat'em like shit'". The article does not mention at this point if this is said in the context of the previous paragraph, if Trump is talking as a generalization, or as part of the dating game back in those days (And from a few stories I've heard from adults about the day, treating potential 'dates' (aka probably one-night) with extreme disdain was a common tactic).

the shit u come up with bro lol

[Ansem]

“That must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees,” Trump said

This easily fits on Trump's contempt for self-deprecation of women (and to a rock star to boot).

Are you a misogynist? Serious question.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Sparks

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I love how everyone is now trying to argue how terrible the other side is and that their candidate is suddenly great.

Can't we admit that both sides are shit and you're trying to pick the less smelly turd of the two?

I've admitted that few pages ago thankfully.

honestly looking at the candidate list in general from the preliminary's i don't think anyone from either side would've been decent, which is impressive cause we had alot of turds to choose from this session.

i will admit, i am guilty of voting for trump in the preliminary's, i have my reasons, however "unintelligent" they might be.

1. I live in Indiana, by the time it was our turn to vote, on the Republican's side, it was down to Cruz and Trump (lol Kasich who cares about him?) and i wanted to knock Cruz out of the race because i disagreed with his stance on homosexual's like myself.

2. I'm mostly a republican so going democrat doesn't interest me typically, that and i was convinced Hillary was going to be that rep no matter what (and i was right, despite that Sanders got our country's democracy vote)

3. as much as I might not agree with Trump in several things, i still think he's the the better smelling turd out of himself and Hillary, I did not want the election to come down to Cruz vs Hillary because I feel like she'd clearly win.

but yeah, we really shouldn't be getting as passionate about this as we are i suppose, been posting in this sub fourm less to help with blood pressure, its working.

Edited July 22, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[CyborgZeta]

but yeah, we really shouldn't be getting as passionate about this as we are i suppose, been posting in this sub fourm less to help with blood pressure, its working.

I don't post much here to begin with, but I'm trying to come here less as well. Without criticizing anyone here, political discussion here is just the same hyper partisan politics I see everywhere else. Two sides with their own views, hardly any middle ground, no opinions can be changed. I try to present my views so people can see where I'm coming from, and I try to see where others are coming from.

It's been a long time since I've voted; I haven't voted since 2008, when I voted for Obama. At lot has changed since then, such as changing states, but I intend to start voting again; starting with this year. I don't agree with him on everything, but I'm planning to vote for Trump. I have my reasons for doing so; I'm sure someone will ridicule or insult me for this, but that's just how it is. I've already said before that I can't vote for Hillary Clinton in good conscience; I don't trust her on anything, and I don't like some of the stuff I see come from her campaign. If the election had come down to her and someone like Cruz...I'd rather not imagine it.

My vote won't make much difference since my current state already goes red, but voting is a right I should start expressing again.