Criminal OC Mafia - Game Thread - N5 ends 14/09/2015

[BBM]

man there goes my nurse fakeclaim thanks sb

[Junk]

## Vote SB

[Zkirsche]

Votals the First

SB(6):Lord Gaius, Elieson, Darrman, Refa, King Gilgamesh, Marth, Junko

Not Voting: Everyone else.

<48 Hours remain. It takes 8 to hammer.

[charlie_]

man there goes my nurse fakeclaim thanks sb

as if anyone would believe that there's a flipped omniguard

[riariadne]

##Vote: SB

no reason to have not done this yesterday but whatever

[Elieson]

Why is SB at 6 when 7 ppl are voting for him? Kirsche u listed 7. Plz confirm

[Elieson]

Actually Rein hammered?

[Bluedoom]

Last Phase Gaius voted FK at end phase but the votals showed LG voting Gilg.

Looks like there's some weird vote role, IMO.

[Refa]

Were either of the results confirmed to be correct?

[Bluedoom]

I forgot to ask kirsche, man. He's always on when I'm sleeping though. ;-;

[Elieson]

c'mon britainia wake up

lord british has summoned you

[Faerie Knight]

Britannia is dead.

And so is this thread until SB flips, clearly​

[charlie_]

Britannia is very much alive.

Dicks.

[Zkirsche]

Last phase Gaius was voting FK indeed, I just missed his vote and thought he was still voting KG.

Hammer has not been dropped. There are only 7 votes worth anything on the SB. wagon.

[Mitsuki]

##Vote: SB

I kind of wanted to delay doing this until I finished some dumb paperwork.

Also hammering SB as a sign of my appreciation to him.

[Zkirsche]

Hammer

"Haha we should have done this Yesterday!" exclaimed Hook, his namesake to SB's neck. "Any last words?"

"What nonsense... for me to leave the stage so early, curse you all. Within a few more nights and I'd have had you all dancing like puppets!" SB said, the fear creeping into his voice. "Show some respect for your superiors, for I am the greatest puppeteer! The only mastermind capable of manipulating you all to your doom, the great Charles-" The rant was cut as cleanly as his neck and blood spurted out into the assembly shack.

"I said last words not a last essay."

SB has been lynched. He was

Dear SB, you are Charles Milverton, Self-aligned Blackmailer

You are the "king of blackmailers" and make a living out of blackmailing. You are based on the real life master blackmailer, Cherles Howell, but you are the true master. You caught the attention of Sherlock Holmes when you tried to blackmail Eva Blackwell using letters which would end her engagement. You asked for no less than £7000, the equivalent of £700,000 today, and stated that to make an example of Eva was worth £2000 by itself. You are not sorry for your actions in the slightest: if someone has something so scrutinous that you can blackmail them for it, you might as well make a profit out of it!

Each night, you may use the fancy new technology of the realm by replying to this role pm with "##Night X: Take photos of <User>" where <User> is a living player. You will gather evidence of <User> doing unscrupulous things and find out who they visited that night, if anyone. On N0, you may use this action twice, but you may only keep one set of photos per person at one time. These photos count as items and can be stolen.

It's not enough to just have photos however, you have to use them! Every night, you may respond to this role pm with "##Night X: Blackmail <User> to target <Action> and vote <Vote>" where <User> is a living player whose photo you have taken. You will then force user to target <Action> with whatever night action they have in the next night and vote <Vote> for whomever you choose. You may blackmail as many people in one night as you like and use this ability in *ylo, but someone who was blackmailed cannot be blackmailed for the next night and you cannot blackmail someone the same night you take their photos.

If you are attacked at night and have 2 or more sets of photos, you will sell all your photos in exchange for your life. You doubt your attackers will make anything of them however. You know that if there is a tie in a lynch, all parties will be lynched. You know that it is safe to claim Ghostface, Reformed Stalker, which acts as a Tracker. If you only blackmail a single user in a night with their photos, you will be told that User's role.

You are allied with yourself and win, by yourself, if you are among the last two.

N2 has begun, and ends in a little over 31 hours. (8PM GMT)

Edited September 4, 2015 by Executive kirsche

[riariadne]

wow what a fucking surprise the third party was not telling the truth

[Mitsuki]

Fight me in NOC, Rein.

My first thoughts on Rein were that he was null-ok, but after a couple of times of contacting him and seeing him reply in a steady pace I began to grow suspicious. Granted, he’s been busy, but it seemed to me that he was coasting on that fact to avoid engaging in OC contact.
And then the NL happened. Rein complained about it, and not without a reason. But his thoughts on the whole thing weren’t clear. So I went ahead and talked to him, and asked about his reads. He claimed to be scumreading Faerie Knight. This is part of our log:

[spoiler=Not reading the terms of service implies agreeing with them][31/08/2015 19:52:16] Mitsuki: also, what exactly are you scumreading Faerie on?
[31/08/2015 19:55:07] Reinfleche: his defense post
[31/08/2015 19:55:32] Reinfleche: didn't even try and suggest an alternate lynch that'd be better
[31/08/2015 19:57:04] Reinfleche: just lists a bunch of town reads and is like LAME
[31/08/2015 19:57:13] Mitsuki: that was around 40 min before deadline
[31/08/2015 19:57:35] Mitsuki: 40 min before deadline I wouldn't think my lynch would change
[31/08/2015 19:58:21] Mitsuki: also I see how not suggesting another lynch would make sense if he actually has no scumreads, so that's a null point
[31/08/2015 19:58:26] Mitsuki: well, that's how I see it
[31/08/2015 19:58:29] Mitsuki: thoughts?
[31/08/2015 19:58:59] Reinfleche: it came off as really halfassed to me
[31/08/2015 19:59:13] Reinfleche: i don't get why we didn't lynch him
[31/08/2015 19:59:47] Mitsuki: (me neither but now I wouldn't lynch him)
[31/08/2015 19:59:52] Mitsuki: also in which sense?
[31/08/2015 20:00:39] Reinfleche: what do you mean in which sense
[31/08/2015 20:00:55] Reinfleche: also why not
[31/08/2015 20:00:55] Mitsuki: halfassed in which sense?
[31/08/2015 20:01:19] Mitsuki: because I read his defense post again
[31/08/2015 20:01:31] Mitsuki: and the first bit seems more like town rage
[31/08/2015 20:01:35] Mitsuki: by a fair margin
[31/08/2015 20:01:41] Reinfleche: really?
[31/08/2015 20:02:24] Mitsuki: yes
[31/08/2015 20:02:28] Mitsuki: let me find it again
[31/08/2015 20:02:35] Reinfleche: it didn't come off that way to me
[31/08/2015 20:03:06] Mitsuki: "Also, ok, I'm cagey for not wanting to claim right away and asking you to prove what you could first. I'm sorry I don't trust people that​ easily in this game. It seems I'm alone in that, with how many of you are just following Refa's lead."
specially this bit
[31/08/2015 20:03:44] Reinfleche: that didn't look that townie to me
[31/08/2015 20:03:58] Mitsuki: I can see how a townie with the mindest of "this people are dumb and lynching me for dumb reasons" could make that post
[31/08/2015 20:04:14] Reinfleche: "god i'm scum for not claiming? fuckin sheeple" is how it looks on my end
[31/08/2015 20:04:28] Mitsuki: and I don't think scum in the same situation would use the wording he's using
[31/08/2015 20:05:01] Reinfleche: shrug

I don’t know what to make out of the contents of the scumread itself. The thing is, during the whole time I had to be pushing Rein so that he explained his logic better. To me it seemed like he wasn’t really putting an effort on getting me to understand his read, or on convincing me. Which I see as scummy, because town will want to argue their cases and convince others of them so that their actual scumreads are more likely to be lynched. I’m interpreting the lack of interest on that field as scum who don’t care about who’s lynched as long as it’s not them.
Coincidentally, some time before I had asked Rein about what he would do if he had a scumread in OC to ask for advice, and he said that he’d try to talk about it with other people and see their thoughts. So I went ahead and did that, contacting the most trustworthy and townie person in this game. Someone who, incidentally, is now dead.

[spoiler=Who could it be?][31/08/2015 20:17:18] Mitsuki: also that's not all, I'm scumreading Rein
[31/08/2015 20:17:33] Mitsuki: [explaining]
[31/08/2015 20:17:35] Tinker Blitz: I am too

Oh. Let’s see the rest of the log:

[spoiler=Disregard most of what I say, I changed my opinion on most of this][31/08/2015 20:17:42] Mitsuki: oh
[31/08/2015 20:17:43] Mitsuki: YAY
[31/08/2015 20:17:51] Tinker Blitz: I think he is scum based on the post in thread
[31/08/2015 20:18:00] Tinker Blitz: he is complaining about the NL
[31/08/2015 20:18:06] Mitsuki: also his instance on Faerie seems sort of unreasonable (on Skype)
[31/08/2015 20:18:11] Tinker Blitz: when he knows NL is a good option in OC
[31/08/2015 20:18:18] Tinker Blitz: I have no idea on that
[31/08/2015 20:18:23] Tinker Blitz: can you share logs?
[31/08/2015 20:18:49] Mitsuki: [log I pasted at the beginning of the post]
[31/08/2015 20:19:46] Mitsuki: doesn't seem like he cares about my thoughts on his scumread as well, I expect town would be more eager to prove it right AND to convince people
[31/08/2015 20:20:50] Tinker Blitz: umm, I actually agree with Rein's thoughts on Faerie
[31/08/2015 20:20:56] Tinker Blitz: his post indeed was half baked
[31/08/2015 20:21:16] Tinker Blitz: I mean, I didn't think he dropped anything that cannot easily be faked
[31/08/2015 20:21:26] Tinker Blitz: and he is still kind of a scumread for me
[31/08/2015 20:21:50] Mitsuki: I don't think that part was unreasonable
[31/08/2015 20:22:30] Mitsuki: but how he "argues" for his case seems unreasonable to me
[31/08/2015 20:22:57] Tinker Blitz: let me reread
[31/08/2015 20:23:38] Mitsuki: he doesn't really try to explain, just justify holding the suspicion
[31/08/2015 20:24:52] Tinker Blitz: oh, well, umm, if you ask me, I would say Faerie was using AtE at that point
[31/08/2015 20:25:05] Tinker Blitz: which he used to get away from getting lynched
[31/08/2015 20:25:20] Tinker Blitz: if I were in Refa's shoes, I would have gone for the lynch
[31/08/2015 20:25:37] Mitsuki: same (at that moment)
[31/08/2015 20:25:49] Mitsuki: anyways I'll just disregard that point
[31/08/2015 20:25:53] Tinker Blitz: I would agree to lynch him D2 as well
[31/08/2015 20:26:02] Mitsuki: what do you think of the rest?
[31/08/2015 20:26:18] Tinker Blitz: I think Rein's talk is basically scum trying to look townie
[31/08/2015 20:26:26] Tinker Blitz: by bussing his buddy
[31/08/2015 20:26:33] Tinker Blitz: after all is said and done
[31/08/2015 20:26:47] Tinker Blitz: so, he essentially bussed his buddy
[31/08/2015 20:26:53] Tinker Blitz: one the buddy cannot be lynched
[31/08/2015 20:27:35] Tinker Blitz: I still find him to be scummy for this post
[31/08/2015 20:27:37] Tinker Blitz: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57106&page=7#entry3987460
[31/08/2015 20:27:57] Tinker Blitz: see, he says we should have lynched the ITP, but, in OC, that is not a must
[31/08/2015 20:28:05] Tinker Blitz: the lynch I mean and he should have known that
[31/08/2015 20:28:13] Tinker Blitz: yet he is arguing that NL was really bad

Tl;dr Blitz was scumreading Rein on how he complained about the NL (since he argues that Rein should know that letting the ITP live is a reasonable thing to do in OC) and he also thought Rein was scum bussing Faerie Knight to gain towncred when the D1 deadline had already passed.
These aren’t my thoughts, but I felt like I had to at least share them.
A day later deadline happened, and my waifu died. But ~1 hour before deadline I asked to some people who they thought would die. I’m leaving all of those here for reference, but you only need to read Rein’s one (no day timestamps because I copypasted all of those into my Thoughts QT the same day).

SB
[21:28:51] SB: hmmm
[21:29:04] SB: if a strongman exists refa is probably dead
[21:29:09] SB: unless scum didnt read badass 2
[21:29:29] SB: otherwise i'm not too sure
maybe you
[21:29:46] SB: a lot of the namekill targets have been lurking so its hard to predict
[21:30:35] SB: maybe blitz but i havent seen him around too much either
[21:30:45] Mitsuki: I think basically the same with regards to Refa (if scum have the means to, they will probably go for him), otherwise I'm not sure
[21:31:07] Mitsuki: and since I'm not sure I'll ask around (and since I'm bored)
[21:31:20] SB: ok
[21:31:20] Mitsuki: I'm using your answers as "more or less neutral opinion" by the way
[21:31:30] SB: a literally neutral opinion

Gilgamesh
[21:33:24] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: Hopefully not us. They know getting rid of Refa won't be easy.
[21:34:15] Mitsuki: us?
[21:34:52] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: You and me. I have a town read on you.
[21:35:04] Mitsuki: oh
[21:35:40] Mitsuki: I'm still nullreading you by the way
[21:35:51] Mitsuki: partly that's why I asked the question
[21:35:59] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: Ah
[21:36:21] Mitsuki: I think that if scum have the means to try to kill Refa they'll try to do it, otherwise I have no idea
[21:37:20] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: If they have a strongman kill then yeah

Gaius
[21:54:39] Ben ~: maybe Refa if there's a hitman
[21:54:52] Ben ~: idk it's hard to gauge NKes in OC unless you're town leader
[21:55:45] Mitsuki: my thoughts are basically the same than yours, so
[21:56:20] Mitsuki: it really depends on what info scum have recieved
[21:56:31] Mitsuki: which is why I'm gathering people's replies
[21:57:48] Ben ~: like I'm not sure if my town reads are town for the other players

Izhuark
[22:12:38] Izhuark: i don't know at all
[22:12:51] Izhuark: uh...
[22:13:22] Izhuark: [joke] maybe blitz ? [/joke]
[22:14:23] Izhuark: if i was scum i would target refa because i'm an idiot, but i think maybe you ? because you are the most active non-town leader town in my opinion.
[22:14:41] Izhuark: really don't know tough

Elie
[22:59:42] Elieson: UHH
[22:59:51] Elieson: EITHER REFA OR
[22:59:56] Elieson: UHH
[23:00:07] Elieson: I DUNNO
[23:00:29] Elieson: POSSIBLY YOU
[23:01:10] Elieson: AND IF SB IS SK AND SHOOTS RANDUMBLY MAYBE LIKE REIN OR STRAWMARTH

Rein
[23:00:58] Reinfleche: my thoughts on who will die?
[23:01:16] Mitsuki: yeah
[23:01:43] Reinfleche: oh, i dunno
[23:02:21] Reinfleche: maybe you
[23:02:44] Reinfleche: you're active but not in a particular position of leadership that i know of
[23:02:50] Reinfleche: (and imo decently townie)
[23:04:08] Reinfleche: umm, not me, probably!
[23:04:15] Reinfleche: since i still have not done much!
[23:04:36] Reinfleche: and if we have a vig, i would hope SB dies because i dislike keeping 3rds around
[23:04:59] Mitsuki: not Refa?
[23:05:15] Mitsuki: like everyone else said they think Refa would die if there's strongarm
[23:05:25] Mitsuki: well, most people
[23:05:31] Reinfleche: idk
[23:05:42] Reinfleche: i assumed there's a doctor, and we don't know if there's a strongman
[23:06:02] Mitsuki: I see
[23:06:03] Reinfleche: if there is a strongman he is likely dead but if not i would think mafia would avoid killing him for now

General opinion: Everybody said that Refa could die, and almost everyone said that he'd die if scum had a strongman. Some others said that maybe I’d die, and others that Blitz may die.
Rein’s opinion is quite different from the general opinion in 2 points:

• Not citing that there could be a strongman. Which is weird because it’s Rein and I expect Rein to have that kind of stuff into account, when a lot of other players who have the same or less experience than him have taken it into account. But I wouldn’t see it as that telling if it weren’t for:
• Citing the doctor. It’s not an unreasonable assumption to think there’s a doctor, but I find scummy that the focus of attention is put in the roles that town could have instead of the roles that scum could have.

Rein was indeed assuming that scum wouldn’t have a strongman kill and that doc would be a problem for scum. And then Blitz died, probably indicating that scum have no strongman kill after all. I think that Rein is scum who didn’t think of the strongman kill in the first place because he knew that he didn’t have one.

##FoS: Rein because that's the next best thing you can do when you can't vote

Overall I think this is way too much evidence for him not to be scum. But hey, any thoughts, whether in the thread or on Skype are appreciated. We need to get to discussing scumreads already.

[riariadne]

Fight me in NOC, Rein.

no

[Paperblade]

wow what a fucking surprise the third party was not telling the truth

[Paperblade]

btw I am starting a job tomorrow and have been running around getting stuff for that done

If you want to talk to me, shoot me a PM or skype message since I have like no time

[BBM]

did SB even have any kills; it doesn't explicitly say so

[Prims]

not playing

* opens thread * hmmm i wonder whats going on in this mafia ga-oh SB was anti-town and already died

well bye lol

not playing

[Faerie Knight]

Fight me in NOC, Rein.

My first thoughts on Rein were that he was null-ok, but after a couple of times of contacting him and seeing him reply in a steady pace I began to grow suspicious. Granted, he’s been busy, but it seemed to me that he was coasting on that fact to avoid engaging in OC contact.

And then the NL happened. Rein complained about it, and not without a reason. But his thoughts on the whole thing weren’t clear. So I went ahead and talked to him, and asked about his reads. He claimed to be scumreading Faerie Knight. This is part of our log:

[spoiler=Not reading the terms of service implies agreeing with them][31/08/2015 19:52:16] Mitsuki: also, what exactly are you scumreading Faerie on?

[31/08/2015 19:55:07] Reinfleche: his defense post

[31/08/2015 19:55:32] Reinfleche: didn't even try and suggest an alternate lynch that'd be better

[31/08/2015 19:57:04] Reinfleche: just lists a bunch of town reads and is like LAME

[31/08/2015 19:57:13] Mitsuki: that was around 40 min before deadline

[31/08/2015 19:57:35] Mitsuki: 40 min before deadline I wouldn't think my lynch would change

[31/08/2015 19:58:21] Mitsuki: also I see how not suggesting another lynch would make sense if he actually has no scumreads, so that's a null point

[31/08/2015 19:58:26] Mitsuki: well, that's how I see it

[31/08/2015 19:58:29] Mitsuki: thoughts?

[31/08/2015 19:58:59] Reinfleche: it came off as really halfassed to me

[31/08/2015 19:59:13] Reinfleche: i don't get why we didn't lynch him

[31/08/2015 19:59:47] Mitsuki: (me neither but now I wouldn't lynch him)

[31/08/2015 19:59:52] Mitsuki: also in which sense?

[31/08/2015 20:00:39] Reinfleche: what do you mean in which sense

[31/08/2015 20:00:55] Reinfleche: also why not

[31/08/2015 20:00:55] Mitsuki: halfassed in which sense?

[31/08/2015 20:01:19] Mitsuki: because I read his defense post again

[31/08/2015 20:01:31] Mitsuki: and the first bit seems more like town rage

[31/08/2015 20:01:35] Mitsuki: by a fair margin

[31/08/2015 20:01:41] Reinfleche: really?

[31/08/2015 20:02:24] Mitsuki: yes

[31/08/2015 20:02:28] Mitsuki: let me find it again

[31/08/2015 20:02:35] Reinfleche: it didn't come off that way to me

[31/08/2015 20:03:06] Mitsuki: "Also, ok, I'm cagey for not wanting to claim right away and asking you to prove what you could first. I'm sorry I don't trust people that​ easily in this game. It seems I'm alone in that, with how many of you are just following Refa's lead."

specially this bit

[31/08/2015 20:03:44] Reinfleche: that didn't look that townie to me

[31/08/2015 20:03:58] Mitsuki: I can see how a townie with the mindest of "this people are dumb and lynching me for dumb reasons" could make that post

[31/08/2015 20:04:14] Reinfleche: "god i'm scum for not claiming? fuckin sheeple" is how it looks on my end

[31/08/2015 20:04:28] Mitsuki: and I don't think scum in the same situation would use the wording he's using

[31/08/2015 20:05:01] Reinfleche: shrug

I don’t know what to make out of the contents of the scumread itself. The thing is, during the whole time I had to be pushing Rein so that he explained his logic better. To me it seemed like he wasn’t really putting an effort on getting me to understand his read, or on convincing me. Which I see as scummy, because town will want to argue their cases and convince others of them so that their actual scumreads are more likely to be lynched. I’m interpreting the lack of interest on that field as scum who don’t care about who’s lynched as long as it’s not them.

Coincidentally, some time before I had asked Rein about what he would do if he had a scumread in OC to ask for advice, and he said that he’d try to talk about it with other people and see their thoughts. So I went ahead and did that, contacting the most trustworthy and townie person in this game. Someone who, incidentally, is now dead.

[spoiler=Who could it be?][31/08/2015 20:17:18] Mitsuki: also that's not all, I'm scumreading Rein

[31/08/2015 20:17:33] Mitsuki: [explaining]

[31/08/2015 20:17:35] Tinker Blitz: I am too

Oh. Let’s see the rest of the log:

[spoiler=Disregard most of what I say, I changed my opinion on most of this][31/08/2015 20:17:42] Mitsuki: oh

[31/08/2015 20:17:43] Mitsuki: YAY

[31/08/2015 20:17:51] Tinker Blitz: I think he is scum based on the post in thread

[31/08/2015 20:18:00] Tinker Blitz: he is complaining about the NL

[31/08/2015 20:18:06] Mitsuki: also his instance on Faerie seems sort of unreasonable (on Skype)

[31/08/2015 20:18:11] Tinker Blitz: when he knows NL is a good option in OC

[31/08/2015 20:18:18] Tinker Blitz: I have no idea on that

[31/08/2015 20:18:23] Tinker Blitz: can you share logs?

[31/08/2015 20:18:49] Mitsuki: [log I pasted at the beginning of the post]

[31/08/2015 20:19:46] Mitsuki: doesn't seem like he cares about my thoughts on his scumread as well, I expect town would be more eager to prove it right AND to convince people

[31/08/2015 20:20:50] Tinker Blitz: umm, I actually agree with Rein's thoughts on Faerie

[31/08/2015 20:20:56] Tinker Blitz: his post indeed was half baked

[31/08/2015 20:21:16] Tinker Blitz: I mean, I didn't think he dropped anything that cannot easily be faked

[31/08/2015 20:21:26] Tinker Blitz: and he is still kind of a scumread for me

[31/08/2015 20:21:50] Mitsuki: I don't think that part was unreasonable

[31/08/2015 20:22:30] Mitsuki: but how he "argues" for his case seems unreasonable to me

[31/08/2015 20:22:57] Tinker Blitz: let me reread

[31/08/2015 20:23:38] Mitsuki: he doesn't really try to explain, just justify holding the suspicion

[31/08/2015 20:24:52] Tinker Blitz: oh, well, umm, if you ask me, I would say Faerie was using AtE at that point

[31/08/2015 20:25:05] Tinker Blitz: which he used to get away from getting lynched

[31/08/2015 20:25:20] Tinker Blitz: if I were in Refa's shoes, I would have gone for the lynch

[31/08/2015 20:25:37] Mitsuki: same (at that moment)

[31/08/2015 20:25:49] Mitsuki: anyways I'll just disregard that point

[31/08/2015 20:25:53] Tinker Blitz: I would agree to lynch him D2 as well

[31/08/2015 20:26:02] Mitsuki: what do you think of the rest?

[31/08/2015 20:26:18] Tinker Blitz: I think Rein's talk is basically scum trying to look townie

[31/08/2015 20:26:26] Tinker Blitz: by bussing his buddy

[31/08/2015 20:26:33] Tinker Blitz: after all is said and done

[31/08/2015 20:26:47] Tinker Blitz: so, he essentially bussed his buddy

[31/08/2015 20:26:53] Tinker Blitz: one the buddy cannot be lynched

[31/08/2015 20:27:35] Tinker Blitz: I still find him to be scummy for this post

[31/08/2015 20:27:37] Tinker Blitz: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57106&page=7#entry3987460

[31/08/2015 20:27:57] Tinker Blitz: see, he says we should have lynched the ITP, but, in OC, that is not a must

[31/08/2015 20:28:05] Tinker Blitz: the lynch I mean and he should have known that

[31/08/2015 20:28:13] Tinker Blitz: yet he is arguing that NL was really bad

Tl;dr Blitz was scumreading Rein on how he complained about the NL (since he argues that Rein should know that letting the ITP live is a reasonable thing to do in OC) and he also thought Rein was scum bussing Faerie Knight to gain towncred when the D1 deadline had already passed.

These aren’t my thoughts, but I felt like I had to at least share them.

A day later deadline happened, and my waifu died. But ~1 hour before deadline I asked to some people who they thought would die. I’m leaving all of those here for reference, but you only need to read Rein’s one (no day timestamps because I copypasted all of those into my Thoughts QT the same day).

SB

[21:28:51] SB: hmmm

[21:29:04] SB: if a strongman exists refa is probably dead

[21:29:09] SB: unless scum didnt read badass 2

[21:29:29] SB: otherwise i'm not too sure

maybe you

[21:29:46] SB: a lot of the namekill targets have been lurking so its hard to predict

[21:30:35] SB: maybe blitz but i havent seen him around too much either

[21:30:45] Mitsuki: I think basically the same with regards to Refa (if scum have the means to, they will probably go for him), otherwise I'm not sure

[21:31:07] Mitsuki: and since I'm not sure I'll ask around (and since I'm bored)

[21:31:20] SB: ok

[21:31:20] Mitsuki: I'm using your answers as "more or less neutral opinion" by the way

[21:31:30] SB: a literally neutral opinion

Gilgamesh

[21:33:24] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: Hopefully not us. They know getting rid of Refa won't be easy.

[21:34:15] Mitsuki: us?

[21:34:52] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: You and me. I have a town read on you.

[21:35:04] Mitsuki: oh

[21:35:40] Mitsuki: I'm still nullreading you by the way

[21:35:51] Mitsuki: partly that's why I asked the question

[21:35:59] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: Ah

[21:36:21] Mitsuki: I think that if scum have the means to try to kill Refa they'll try to do it, otherwise I have no idea

[21:37:20] Dr. Rudy Mjölnir: If they have a strongman kill then yeah

Gaius

[21:54:39] Ben ~: maybe Refa if there's a hitman

[21:54:52] Ben ~: idk it's hard to gauge NKes in OC unless you're town leader

[21:55:45] Mitsuki: my thoughts are basically the same than yours, so

[21:56:20] Mitsuki: it really depends on what info scum have recieved

[21:56:31] Mitsuki: which is why I'm gathering people's replies

[21:57:48] Ben ~: like I'm not sure if my town reads are town for the other players

Izhuark

[22:12:38] Izhuark: i don't know at all

[22:12:51] Izhuark: uh...

[22:13:22] Izhuark: [joke] maybe blitz ? [/joke]

[22:14:23] Izhuark: if i was scum i would target refa because i'm an idiot, but i think maybe you ? because you are the most active non-town leader town in my opinion.

[22:14:41] Izhuark: really don't know tough

Elie

[22:59:42] Elieson: UHH

[22:59:51] Elieson: EITHER REFA OR

[22:59:56] Elieson: UHH

[23:00:07] Elieson: I DUNNO

[23:00:29] Elieson: POSSIBLY YOU

[23:01:10] Elieson: AND IF SB IS SK AND SHOOTS RANDUMBLY MAYBE LIKE REIN OR STRAWMARTH

Rein

[23:00:58] Reinfleche: my thoughts on who will die?

[23:01:16] Mitsuki: yeah

[23:01:43] Reinfleche: oh, i dunno

[23:02:21] Reinfleche: maybe you

[23:02:44] Reinfleche: you're active but not in a particular position of leadership that i know of

[23:02:50] Reinfleche: (and imo decently townie)

[23:04:08] Reinfleche: umm, not me, probably!

[23:04:15] Reinfleche: since i still have not done much!

[23:04:36] Reinfleche: and if we have a vig, i would hope SB dies because i dislike keeping 3rds around

[23:04:59] Mitsuki: not Refa?

[23:05:15] Mitsuki: like everyone else said they think Refa would die if there's strongarm

[23:05:25] Mitsuki: well, most people

[23:05:31] Reinfleche: idk

[23:05:42] Reinfleche: i assumed there's a doctor, and we don't know if there's a strongman

[23:06:02] Mitsuki: I see

[23:06:03] Reinfleche: if there is a strongman he is likely dead but if not i would think mafia would avoid killing him for now

General opinion: Everybody said that Refa could die, and almost everyone said that he'd die if scum had a strongman. Some others said that maybe I’d die, and others that Blitz may die.

Rein’s opinion is quite different from the general opinion in 2 points:

• Not citing that there could be a strongman. Which is weird because it’s Rein and I expect Rein to have that kind of stuff into account, when a lot of other players who have the same or less experience than him have taken it into account. But I wouldn’t see it as that telling if it weren’t for:
• Citing the doctor. It’s not an unreasonable assumption to think there’s a doctor, but I find scummy that the focus of attention is put in the roles that town could have instead of the roles that scum could have.

Rein was indeed assuming that scum wouldn’t have a strongman kill and that doc would be a problem for scum. And then Blitz died, probably indicating that scum have no strongman kill after all. I think that Rein is scum who didn’t think of the strongman kill in the first place because he knew that he didn’t have one.

##FoS: Rein because that's the next best thing you can do when you can't vote

Overall I think this is way too much evidence for him not to be scum. But hey, any thoughts, whether in the thread or on Skype are appreciated. We need to get to discussing scumreads already.

no

Is that your only response?

[Faerie Knight]

...Is Rein's quoting Mitsuki supposed to disappear like that? Eh, it was only the first line anyway.