Refa Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I don't like avatars because they were very unappealing characters and yet enough of characters to make the whole self insert thing really hard. It'd be a lot easier for the developers if they just made the avatars blank slates; not everyone can make the next Denam Pavel, after all. Edited October 9, 2015 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Its not Kamui im banking on changes. Its how characters react that im hoping things are a bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewtifulBo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Ah Avatars. For some people all they need is to name their character "Beenis" and hit the start button. Some like to project themselves down to their exact earlobe width. I fall somewhere in the middle. Mark was and is an amazing Avatar to me because he/she was so simple. Pick your name, gender, birth month and boom: You wake up in a field and support the main character(s) on their quest all the while saying hi to any friendly (or not so friendly) faces along the way. I think the silent protagonist is the way to go in any game if the main character is supposed to be "me". just saying, localization's aren't always good or always bad, but FE generally has more hits then misses. "The purest fire... Flame breath." -Nergal 2003 OOPS. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I wish FE would take a break from the avatar in the next game. Not saying that they have to be gone forever because we all know that is not happening, but like how FE7 had a tactician and then FEs 7-11 didn't I wish they'd give the avatar a break in the next installment and then maybe bring them back later. The last three FE games have all had avatars. It's getting repetitive. Yeah but then who will the Tharja clones stalk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah but then who will the Tharja clones stalk? Celery. They'd be celery stalks. In all seriousness, Tharja's a creepy character and stalking's not a joke. It's unfortunate that this aspect of her personality is the one that is emphasized on most. I'd like to see Tharja and Tharja clones go and stay go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I don't like avatars because they were very unappealing characters and yet enough of characters to make the whole self insert thing really hard. It'd be a lot easier for the developers if they just made the avatars blank slates; not everyone can make the next Denam Pavel, after all. YES. Denam Pavel was a great protagonist, especially in the Law route. You could see how tortured he was when he was labeled ... Butcher of Golyat I had hopes Kamui would have a different personality depending on what route you took. I hope he/she would act and respond to situations like Pavel did in Tactics Ogre if you chose the Nohr Route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I wish FE would take a break from the avatar in the next game. Not saying that they have to be gone forever because we all know that is not happening, but like how FE7 had a tactician and then FEs 7-11 didn't I wish they'd give the avatar a break in the next installment and then maybe bring them back later. The last three FE games have all had avatars. It's getting repetitive. No, the solution is that we need more avatars. Every character should be an avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 No, the solution is that we need more avatars. Every character should be an avatar. If you're going to make every character an avatar let's just make FE the new Etrian Odyssey and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Generally when people complain about the world revolving around Kamui, it's not so much that the plot focuses on them the most; obviously that's necessary due to them being the protagonist. It's the fact that there is an unnatural amount of attention drawn to the avatar not only to the point of warping the story, but also warping and ruining the characters too. Camilla and Kaze are the most obvious and the worst off in that regard because their characterization from beginning to end revolves entirely around Kamui, to the point where they barely seem to care about their family and don't seem to have a life besides sucking Kamui off. I mean fuck, they even have a butler and two maids who pretty much explicitly state their purpose in life is to serve Kamui and the villains often do comically evil things for the sole purpose of making Kamui sad, for no apparent reason. Some characters manage to escape this (Saizou and Charlotte are the best examples) but it's irritating at best and insufferable at worst. It's a big problem with Robin and Kris too and honestly they can also go fuck themselves. Also Kamui is legitimately a total putz, so to be told this is supposed to be us comes across like a massively implied insult. Kris and Robin have no personality whatsoever, but at least it wasn't an offensive personality. Regarding the concept of Avatars themselves, the main selling point seems to be customization but you don't need an avatar to do that. SRPGs (and RPGs in general frankly) have been doing this forever. Shit when you start a new Tactics Ogre game, you get to choose the protagonist's name, birthday, elemental affinity and you can alter his base stats; he's still his own character and the game doesn't insist that he's supposed to be a self-insert. I think what's both hilarious and sad though is that even though Denim is not supposed to be a self insert, he still does a better job at it because you get to choose his actions and sometimes what he says, which can affect things as major as route changes and recruitment, to minor things like the loyalty stats of his followers. But I digress. Basically there's still room for customization with a preset lord such as Ike or Marth. I guess you can't change their gender or appearance but fuck that anyway. Regarding the topic of localization improving things, there's only so much they can do; they can't rewrite major characters or the entire story; aside from Henry and a couple of other minor characters, Awakening's localization and characterization is actually pretty close to the japanese version. In any case, shit is shit, no matter what country the ass is from, so you might as well hire the guys who did FF7's and FFT's localization to do it. I mean hey, we'll probably get some comedy gold out of it and we'll be too busy laughing at the incompetence to fully pay attention to the shit plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Geargia Gateway Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 "...and the villains often do comically evil things for the sole purpose of making Kamui sad, for no apparent reason."I giggled longer than my LMAO's. Anyway, do you feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackc2 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm neutral. Being a customisable character has nothing to do with whether that is a well-written character. As far as being a self-insert goes, FE9 Ike has a little bit of that quality: he gets base support conversations with everyone, much like the Chris, Reflet or Kamui. Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. I'd say Chris is one of the better MUs, but I'm not sure if plot irrelevance is a reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 As far as being a self-insert goes, FE9 Ike has a little bit of that quality: he gets base support conversations with everyone, much like the Chris, Reflet or Kamui.How does that make Ike anything like a self-insert, at all?How did you come to that conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical-Pigeon Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. Exactly the reason why Awakening beats Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. So Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 My problem with the Avatars is that on the one hand they are relatively plain 'blank slate' characters so that the player can project onto them, but at the same time the player doesn't have enough control over them to make them true player-defined characters. They are sort of like a Visual Novel protagonist: you name them and make one or two decisions for them, but have no control over their actual personality, dialogue or opinions (the stuff that actually defines a character). I don't hate them, but I see no need for them. I like full player control main characters like those in western RPG's and well written pre-defined protagonists, but the 'half and half' Fire Emblem gives us just doesn't do anything for me. Not enough player choice to feel like my own character and not enough going on to be interesting in their own right. I agree, I would prefer if FE can make a game with an avatar to make almost every decision like 'Persona 3' and 'Persona 4'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. I feel like this would result in more complaining. "Why does my MU have no story input? I created a character and now they're ignored? I'm not OP as fuck?" MU should be scrapped because there's no winning with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 How does that make Ike anything like a self-insert, at all? How did you come to that conclusion? The contents of those conversations put you in Ike's perspective, not unlike that seen with MU. Actually, for all those complaints about FE14 being Kamui-centric, I find FE9 puts the focus on Ike himself even more. Base conversations that lead to new items or gold? Ike found it or someone gave it to him. Getting to talk to all characters outside of recruitment? Ike is the only non-MU to do so. A character has fallen and you can't mention that character? Redirect it to Ike. The only thing left is that he doesn't get to have support with everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damosel Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 FE9 does that with Ike because he's one of the few characters who you can't kill off, because he's the lord character so his death = game over. I mean, you can kill Oscar/Rolf/Boyd in the very first few chapters of FE9 and there's actual new dialogue regarding said deaths- of course Ike's going to be the one to fill the void, cause the writer KNEW he'd be around! Ike's definitely not a self-insert. He might get extra special treatment in plot and abilities, but he'd a solidly defined character who you get no dialogue or customization options with whatsoever. I mean, all the whining I've see through the years over his canon A-rank epilogue options in FE10 can stand on it's own as as "you're along for the story, this character is not you" definer. Oh no, just about everyone loves Kamui. Its like the others said, we cant really tell you just how bad the Kamui worship is without spoilers. And Takumi is obsessed with Kamui, but in a different way. On the non-Nohr routes, hes perfectly peachy with Kamui for the most part. I just feel like, if you were slightly annoyed by Robin's focus, Kamui might make you want to punt small, fluffy animals. Even the villains seem oddly obsessed with Kamui..... The bolded is what I personally found most annoying. I mean... in past games they have other motivations like world domination and your protagonist just happens to be in the way. In Fates there are actual diatribes from the villain specifically wanting a certain emotional reaction out of Kamui- it's mustache twirling at it's finest (which means, at it's worst for narrative). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The contents of those conversations put you in Ike's perspective, not unlike that seen with MU. So seeing things from the main character's perspective makes said main character a self-insert? Do you not see the problem with this logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'd say Chris is one of the better MUs, but I'm not sure if plot irrelevance is a reason why. Kris is arguably the worst, because he/she takes the roles of various characters in FE3 Book 2 and provides a forced uninteresting subplot into an already mildly complex plot and proceeds to bloat the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maritisa Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Why cant we just have the avatar character as some side character who is unrelated to the plot completely or plays a small roll. That said it will never happen. A personal idea I've had in the past, is that what if the "My Unit" characters were just "Mercenary" characters? Pay some gold to recruit them, and you can customize them and name them and give them whatever class you like. They don't get any supports; only get minor dialogue based on a "trait" you pick for them. Stuff like event tiles and that. This way people could still make themselves, or their characters, or even their friends, but it wouldn't bog down the story. They'd just be extra units for you to use. Sort of like guest avatars in Awakening, but with more customization. After all, when everybody's portrait has them wearing the plegian tactician robes, despite their class, it's kind of immersion breaking... Edited October 9, 2015 by Ritisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 A personal idea I've had in the past, is that what if the "My Unit" characters were just "Mercenary" characters? Pay some gold to recruit them, and you can customize them and name them and give them whatever class you like. They don't get any supports; only get minor dialogue based on a "trait" you pick for them. Stuff like event tiles and that. This way people could still make themselves, or their characters, or even their friends, but it wouldn't bog down the story. They'd just be extra units for you to use. Sort of like guest avatars in Awakening, but with more customization. After all, when everybody's portrait has them wearing the plegian tactician robes, despite their class, it's kind of immersion breaking... ooooo i like this idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 ooooo i like this idea! Seconded, that sounds cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I like it too. I love making full custom teams. I would have no problem with that. It could even make for some interesting challenge runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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