Let's talk about Ests

[Katie]

From a gameplay standpoint, I feel like FE12 Est is the best, as it takes the hella ridiculous growths of the original and adds +10 to each one. Sophia is definitely the worst. I'm not even sure she'd be decen even if she joined at the start of the game. Her growths are oddly rather low for an Est archetype. Which is a shame, because she's my favorite. My least favorite would probably have to be Sharlow, because lol scrubstitute kids.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[General Horace]

I don't think half of these units on said list are ests, Corple, Sharlow, Sophia, and Ewan (I don't know anything about Tellius) all have average to below average growths and turn out worse even at comparable levels when compared to their counterparts (Corple and Sharlow are no better than Lana, Sophia is just worse than Raigh, and Ewan loses out to Lute). Zeiss's bases are far too high to be considered and Est too.

Although I guess Est has had debateably worse growths than Catria in the Archanea games anyway, but at least she's actually had good growths unlike the units I listed above.

That being said I don't really like the idea of archetypes that aren't flat out obvious like Jeigan being akin to FE6 Marcus, and Rutger being akin to Navarre.

As who I voted for, I voted Sara for best est since her staff rank is fantastic in a game where it matters and she has some awesome skills along with 5 move stars (and PCC I think? I don't remember since she has Wrath anyway).

Sophia is undoubtably the worst since she has awful bases, and growths and doesn't even manage to make Dark magic good in a game where Nosferatu is ridiculously strong.

Edited October 14, 2015 by General Horace

[Lantairu]

For me, I recognize that Ests are potentially great units, I just can't ever seem to train them up enough.

[Refa]

Best: Sara

Worst: Sophia

Favorite: Fat Shota Sigurd

Least Favorite: Ewan

Anyone who didn't vote Est for the first question is objectively wrong. =)

That being said I don't really like the idea of archetypes that aren't flat out obvious like Jeigan being akin to FE6 Marcus, and Rutger being akin to Navarre.

Yeah, same. It just gets to be too much of a stretch to the point of being meaningless. Although generally Jeigan is an easy one to figure out (hey, which guy in my starting team is prepromoted, oh cool it is that guy).

Edited October 14, 2015 by Refa

[Phantom037]

Best: Sara

Worst: I almost didn't click Sophia...

Favorite: Pelleas

Least Favorite: Est

I personally count FE9 Tormod as an Est and not Zeiss or Elincia; it's quite irritating how non-clear cut this term is.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Phantom037

[Quintessence]

Idk if a bunch of units there are Ests. All these archetype stuff turns out to be confusing because some of them have elements of an Est archetype. Like Elincia, I don't think she's an Est (in fe10) because you use her in 2-E and then she comes at Part 4 where her bases are pretty good. On top of it, RD has high growths. Maybe Pelleas because he kinda sucks due to hit issues. I voted Est (11) because I don't have any other options as best. Worst is Sophia definitely as much as I like magic users but she's terribly horrible (bases, con, lame hit, so much effort, terrible growths, she's a beautiful disaster). My fave is Pelleas because Archsage design is cool and least favorite is Ewan because eww and meh.

[Katie]

Elincia is only n Est in FE9. I should probably make the poll specify that.

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah, I have to agree with the notion Ests aren't a clearly defined archetype.

That said....

Best: FE9 Elincia

Worst: Sophia. Dishonorable mention to Sharlow, because ewww, scrubstitutes and ewww, starting at level 1 coming late in the game. And another dishonorable mention to Corple.

Favorite: FE9 Elincia.

Least favorite: Sharlow, for the aforementioned reasons.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Ansem]

the only option should be sara really

elite wrath 5 pcc movement star staff rank caps everything too good

[solrocknroll]

Best: Sara for lolelitewrath

Worst: Nino. She comes too late to do anything. Unlike Kurth who has 4-E-3, she has Cog of Destiny? Possibly?

Favorite: Miranda. She comes completely outclassed by Olwen and Eyrios but she's still cool.

Least: Nino for aforementioned reasons and general badness.

[kantoorfarina]

Ewan promoted in his join chapter and he's already better than my Mage Knight Lute, being a Level 9 Shaman. he even has 8 defense. he's my favorite.

Ross is the best overall in my opinion though

Edited October 14, 2015 by kantoorfarina

[Katie]

Best: Sara for lolelitewrath

Worst: Nino. She comes too late to do anything. Unlike Kurth who has 4-E-3, she has Cog of Destiny? Possibly?

Favorite: Miranda. She comes completely outclassed by Olwen and Eyrios but she's still cool.

Least: Nino for aforementioned reasons and general badness.

Nino's actually really easy to train if you take advantage of the mine glitch.

[Shadow Mir]

Nino's actually really easy to train if you take advantage of the mine glitch.

You do realize that wouldn't actually be saying anything good about her....?

[Naglfar94]

Why the best Est fore me is simple... The one who started the Est thing Est. She owns everything in her path and the chapters she appears on are built for her notice how every enemy unit can be killed easily by her? especially in FE3 where enemies come from forts for awhile she can kill them over and over and she comes with high enough weapon level to use silver weapons right off the bat. In Fe2 she is awesome too was my best unit of all after I was done and gave her the growth rate increase item.

My favorite Est character wise is Sophia. However I feel sorry for Sophia poor girl is she really all that bad? I see Sophia is the most disliked Est but honestly she is not that hard to level up it is simple and easy and again she has chapters built for her to be trained on though less generous than FE3. Give her 1 body ring maybe a speed ring+luck increase item (optional)+skill ring (optional) and profit easy. Go to chapter 14x? I don`t remember this game well gather your strong agile units in the start form a wall unequip all weapons wait for the weak pirate to come and let Sophia go to town on them she will be about Lv14 or so by the time done also her gaining support with Ray helps too. But not every plays the same way as I I just find it far fetched to call her the worst when she is so easy to train.

On the other hand the worst for me is Miranda due to how hard Thracia generally is and such and her very low stats she will die easy as well as Sara Thracia.. is not so generous with many things that and fatigue so there is only but so much they can be trained per chapter I had the most trouble personally training those two.

[Katie]

You do realize that wouldn't actually be saying anything good about her....?

If you don't want to abuse the Mine glitch, there's still Cog of Destiny and an easy support with Jaffar to take advantage of.

Naglfar, While I agree Sophia can b great if u give her statboosters, the fat that she needs them in the first place is rather telling. I love her too but I won't even try to pretend she isn't awful from a gameplay standpoint.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Matthewtheman

[Shadow Mir]

If you don't want to abuse the Mine glitch, there's still Cog of Destiny and an easy support with Jaffar to take advantage of.

Naglfar, While I agree Sophia can b great if u give her statboosters, the fat that she needs them in the first place is rather telling. I love her too but I won't even try to pretend she isn't awful from a gameplay standpoint.

Which is ignoring the shit synergy between Ice and Fire, for one, and more importantly, the fact that by the time she joins, your units can kill enemies just by staring hard. Also, Cog of Destiny ain't so good a training ground in HHM.

My favorite Est character wise is Sophia. However I feel sorry for Sophia poor girl is she really all that bad? I see Sophia is the most disliked Est but honestly she is not that hard to level up it is simple and easy and again she has chapters built for her to be trained on though less generous than FE3. Give her 1 body ring maybe a speed ring+luck increase item (optional)+skill ring (optional) and profit easy. Go to chapter 14x? I don`t remember this game well gather your strong agile units in the start form a wall unequip all weapons wait for the weak pirate to come and let Sophia go to town on them she will be about Lv14 or so by the time done also her gaining support with Ray helps too. But not every plays the same way as I I just find it far fetched to call her the worst when she is so easy to train.

Yeesh... that's a lot of favoritism needed for one unit, and that's honestly pretty telling. And there's the fact that accuracy is pretty bad, to say nothing of the fact that about the only things she can hope to have good hit rates on are armors, which you don't see much of after she joins.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Leif]

Best: Sara. She is ridiculous. A BEAST. She grows like a weed and eats foes for breakfast. Compared to all the other 'Ests' she is the easiest to raise. She can use staves upon promotion and use Rewarp, Warp, Berserk, etc. She's invaluable.

Worst: Sophia. She was supposed to be a Sara clone in both character and gameplay. Unfortunately, Shamans are garbage at low levels. It's practically impossible to raise her and she can't hit a damn thing.

Favorite: Pelleas. He had a ton of screen time and he really developed as a character. You could see his struggle as the story progressed. He also looked sick as a Dark Sage though I don't like his Archsage design.

Least Favorite: None really.

[Alex95]

Well, let's see. I like her pink hair, her personality, her... oh, wait. Is that not what you meant? Whoops...

Nino, Ewan, and Elinica are the only "Ests" I've used so far. (Unless you count the DLC Est in Awakening). Of them all, Ewan is the one I had the least trouble keeping alive, so him. Elinica joins fairly late in the game (like, second to last chapter, I think) so I can't say I like her as a unit, seeing as I can barely use her.

On a somewhat related note: I have a cousin named Ester who we call Est. Figured this was a fitting topic to say that. :)

[Naglfar94]

If you don't want to abuse the Mine glitch, there's still Cog of Destiny and an easy support with Jaffar to take advantage of.

Naglfar, While I agree Sophia can b great if u give her statboosters, the fat that she needs them in the first place is rather telling. I love her too but I won't even try to pretend she isn't awful from a gameplay standpoint.

Yeah I see it from your point of view I understand but by then every unit you are using is so strong you don`t even need stat boosters so it would make sense to use them on a unit who can make actual use of them. I personally never had a problem there are worse units than Sophia within FE6 some of which join earlier than her.

Which is ignoring the shit synergy between Ice and Fire, for one, and more importantly, the fact that by the time she joins, your units can kill enemies just by staring hard. Also, Cog of Destiny ain't so good a training ground in HHM.

Yeesh... that's a lot of favoritism needed for one unit, and that's honestly pretty telling. And there's the fact that accuracy is pretty bad, to say nothing of the fact that about the only things she can hope to have good hit rates on are armors, which you don't see much of after she joins.

Oh dear Hard mode? That is not Sophia friendly oh no I skip her in hard runs I actually generally leave shamans alone completely in hard since dark magic is not that good and lacks tome variety. I was talking about Sophia from a normal mode point of view since most people play on normal mode right? Hard mode I mainly used to unlock a trial map character. But if it is hard mode then I can see why she is called a bad unit she will get wrecked. Even with a support from Ray or even Fa. Though it is possible I have seen some videos of people using her in hard mode.

Gah and I forgot now I remember completely Sophia can be trained not only on those weak pirates in the Gaiden chapter the chapter after the weak Cavalier reinforcments that appear she can kill those too for easy Exp and the terrain is perfect for her to dodge with if speed is an issue again referring to a normal mode run not hard mode :P

Edited October 14, 2015 by Naglfar94

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah I see it from your point of view I understand but by then every unit you are using is so strong you don`t even need stat boosters so it would make sense to use them on a unit who can make actual use of them. I personally never had a problem I`ve there are worse units than Sophia within FE6 some of which join earlier than her.

Oh dear Hard mode? That is not Sophia friendly oh no I skip her in hard runs I actually generally leave shamans alone completely in hard since dark magic is not that good and lacks tome variety. I was talking about Sophia from a normal mode point of view since most people play on normal mode right? Hard mode I mainly used to unlock a trial map character. But if it is hard mode then I can see why she is called a bad unit she will get wrecked. Even with a support from Ray or even Fa. Though it is possible I have seen some videos of people using her in hard mode.

How can you say that with a straight face when we're talking about the midway point of the game, for one, and second, the RNG has a say in how good your unit turns out???

[Katie]

Tbh, the only unit I can think of that could maybe be considered worse than Sophia is Wendy.

[Carmine Sword]

The only person that joins before Sophia that is worse than Sophia is Wendy. Sophia is debatably worse than Wendy, but they're both definitely the worst units in FE6.

I'd also agree that the Est archetype is not well defined. Like, Ests are supposed to have good growths to offset their terrible bases, but units like Sophia, Amelia, and Ewan don't even have good growths to offset their terrible bases, and Zeiss had pretty good bases (wtf 19 strength at level 7 unpromoted).

I'm not very knowledgeable about the pre-FE6 games, so I can't really say anything about the units in them.

[Leif]

The only person that joins before Sophia that is worse than Sophia is Wendy. Sophia is debatably worse than Wendy, but they're both definitely the worst units in FE6.

I'd also agree that the Est archetype is not well defined. Like, Ests are supposed to have good growths to offset their terrible bases, but units like Sophia, Amelia, and Ewan don't even have good growths to offset their terrible bases, and Zeiss had pretty good bases (wtf 19 strength at level 7 unpromoted).

I'm not very knowledgeable about the pre-FE6 games, so I can't really say anything about the units in them.

To give you reference for older FE games, Sara joins rather late in the mid game with 14 HP and no defense. However, she has 80% growths in magic, skill and speed. She has the Wrath skill to offset her poor PCC. She's absolutely crazy and is...

Manfroy's grandaughter

She's a tad better than Linonan. If she were a mage, like Miranda, she'd wouldn't be as useful since she wouldn't have access to staves therefore no easy EXP.

[Katie]

Ross, Amelia, and Ewan may not have good growths, but they get 10 extra levels over regular units.

[Thor Odinson]

to be fair Zeiss is entirely HM bonuses, his NM bases are nothing to write home about and was prolly meant to be an est in that sense

but then hard mode hit and he suddenly has a bunch more stats in everything and is actually solid once you get him 3 levels

10 extra levels don't really mean much unless you either get lucky at the hands of RNG or flat out rig, and if you rig then I mean, I'd rather just go rig seth anyway

On average they really don't have enough stats over units of the same class at equivalent levels.

Anyway

Sophia for worst

Sara for both best and favorite

Est for least favorite

Edited October 14, 2015 by Thor Odinson