Serra or Lucius?

[Alastor15243]

Looking at their stats, Serra seems like she's a way better bishop statistically once she's properly trained up. Is there anything I should know about the harder difficulties that makes Lucius more practical?

[General Horace]

Lucius is better merely because he can fight before promotion.

[Florete]

If you're on harder difficulties, Serra is easily the better one. Lucius' combat is nothing special, Serra is just completely better when both are promoted and her healing is valuable prior to that.

[Tragonight]

Looking at their stats, Serra seems like she's a way better bishop statistically once she's properly trained up. Is there anything I should know about the harder difficulties that makes Lucius more practical?

Where'd you get that from?

Lucius has better growths and bases than Serra (in basically everything besides Luck), and like the first poster said, he can fight before promotion.

[Dandragon]

do you want S rank light or S rank staff? thats the difference

[Alastor15243]

Where'd you get that from?

Lucius has better growths and bases than Serra (in basically everything besides Luck), and like the first poster said, he can fight before promotion.

Lucius has better magic, skill and (slightly) res, Serra has (very very slightly) better speed, WAAAAAAAAAY better luck, and better defense. I figured this would make Serra more useful, considering that luck would result in a very hefty evasion difference between the two, and Lucius could run the risk of getting critted. Also, while Lucius can fight before promotion, Serra can heal before promotion, which is much rarer and more valuable.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Alastor15243

[Florete]

Why is Lucius having combat before promotion being cited as an advantage? OP specifically mentioned harder difficulties, which is where healing becomes much more valuable than a third-rate combatant.

[General Horace]

Serra gains exp way too slow and takes too long to promote early on, she doesn't get any staff that she can use to just gain exp until the dread isle torch staff and barrier staff in dragon's gate, and she faces competition from Priscilla (whom I think we all can agree is a better unit) for those staves. Lucius isn't significantly better or worse than Erk or Canas (I'd say he's better post premotion since he doubles a lot easier than Canas/Erk) and guiding ring competition isn't a big deal since there are quite a few early on. Once Lucius promotes (because he will reach promotion level faster than Serra if you're actively using both) there's very little incentive to continue using Serra since she has no advantages over him. other than higher luck with is nearly irrelevant. I guess Serra gains exp faster upon promotion, but that's a minor point in itself.

Edited October 15, 2015 by General Horace

[ruadath]

Lucius has better magic, skill and (slightly) res, Serra has (very very slightly) better speed, WAAAAAAAAAY better luck, and better defense. I figured this would make Serra more useful, considering that luck would result in a very hefty evasion difference between the two, and Lucius could run the risk of getting critted. Also, while Lucius can fight before promotion, Serra can heal before promotion, which is much rarer and more valuable.

Enemies rarely crit in this game. I would say (in terms of combat ability) Lucius is the more valuable unit by far, but Serra's early game healing is pretty essential, and she can be a valuable unit beyond that as well, whereas no playthrough really "needs" to incorporate Lucius.

[Florete]

Serra gains exp way too slow and takes too long to promote early on, she doesn't get any staff that she can use to just gain exp until the dread isle torch staff and barrier staff in dragon's gate, and she faces competition from Priscilla (whom I think we all can agree is a better unit) for those staves. Lucius isn't significantly better or worse than Erk or Canas (I'd say he's better post premotion since he doubles a lot easier than Canas/Erk) and guiding ring competition isn't a big deal since there are quite a few early on. Once Lucius promotes (because he will reach promotion level faster than Serra if you're actively using both) there's very little incentive to continue using Serra since she has no advantages over him. other than higher luck with is nearly irrelevant. I guess Serra gains exp faster upon promotion, but that's a minor point in itself.

Efficient staff use will get Serra reasonably high by the time Physic is available, and at that point leveling becomes quite fast. If she's behind Lucius in promotion at all, she's not very far. Additionally, Serra is simply more useful before promotion than Lucius on the hard modes. So what if she gains experience slowly? You don't need levels to heal.

If you want to use these units in combat, dodging will practically be necessary, which makes the big Luck difference actually meaningful. At 20/1 Serra has 12 more avoid, which is not a negligible difference.

EDIT: Priscilla is better, yeah, but you don't need to focus on both, and Serra is still a good alternative.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[General Horace]

you don't need dodges for lucius to be effective in combat, the only units you're tossing into loads of enemies for a very long time are Marcus, Hector and Oswin. It's not very hard for him to take out an enemy per turn, and it's not particulary hard to use him to draw in an additional enemy for him to kill (so if he gets hit, it doesn't matter).

Serra's healing is pretty neat in the first few chapters, but after the first 5-6 chapters or so it's easily replaceable by vulneraries or just isn't needed. If you're dumping loads of money into Physic and Barrier staves to turn Serra into a real unit it says something about her contributions pre premotion (I still think it's a good idea to buy all that stuff if you're using her for the record). It is nice to have more than Pent for a restore user after all (although literally any non-Nino magic user can easily have A Staves before Cog when status staves become relevant).

i'd just rather deploy another unit that can fight then a staffbot that doesn't really contribute to the completion of the chapter. Perhaps it's personal preference?

Edited October 16, 2015 by General Horace

[King Garon]

do you want S rank light or S rank staff? thats the difference

You can actually get Serra to S-rank light by having other promoted magic users heal your army. Sure, getting Serra to S-rank light isn't as easy as getting Lucius there. However, it's still doable if you don't promote Serra before your other magic units.

[Tragonight]

You can actually get Serra to S-rank light by having other promoted magic users heal your army. Sure, getting Serra to S-rank light isn't as easy as getting Lucius there. However, it's still doable if you don't promote Serra before your other magic units.

It doesn't matter that it's doable. Training Sophia in FE6 is doable. It only matters if it's worth the time and effort, which it pretty much isn't.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Tragonight

[Water Mage]

You should make your choice based on your Bishop is going to do. What kind of Bishop do you want? A healer or a fighter?

Because if you want your Bishop to mostly be on healing duty then Serra is the better choice, however if your Bishop is going to be mostly an offensive unit, the Lucius is the better choice.

On harder difficulties however, Serra is the better choice, as she can heal from the start and has great availabilty, and later will also be able to be a good fighter as well.

[Alastor15243]

Is there any benefit whatsoever to S rank staves? I seem to remember there not even BEING an S rank staff in this game. Do staves get an S rank bonus like weapon types do?

[Shadow Mir]

Is there any benefit whatsoever to S rank staves? I seem to remember there not even BEING an S rank staff in this game. Do staves get an S rank bonus like weapon types do?

I doubt it, to say the least.

[Quintessence]

do you want S rank light or S rank staff? thats the difference

Why on the world would you S rank staves on fe7?

Is Serra's healing really that vital on EHM or HHM? It is good to have her for the first chapters but if units like Marcus, Oswin, Hector and maybe Lowen tank hits and they have vulneraries then there won't be an issue on not using Serra by early game. Lucius is a better unit overall and has a pretty good staff rank by promotion.

[Florete]

you don't need dodges for lucius to be effective in combat, the only units you're tossing into loads of enemies for a very long time are Marcus, Hector and Oswin. It's not very hard for him to take out an enemy per turn, and it's not particulary hard to use him to draw in an additional enemy for him to kill (so if he gets hit, it doesn't matter).

Why would I use someone who can only take one enemy per turn over someone who can handle multiple? Note that I'm not talking about Serra here (though she can certainly take more enemies per turn than Lucius).

Serra's healing is pretty neat in the first few chapters, but after the first 5-6 chapters or so it's easily replaceable by vulneraries or just isn't needed. If you're dumping loads of money into Physic and Barrier staves to turn Serra into a real unit it says something about her contributions pre premotion (I still think it's a good idea to buy all that stuff if you're using her for the record). It is nice to have more than Pent for a restore user after all (although literally any non-Nino magic user can easily have A Staves before Cog when status staves become relevant).

Uh, what? Vulnerary will never replace healers, especially in the games where it only heals 10. Player phase combat is nice to have.

Physic and Barrier don't turn Serra into a "real unit," they simply speed up her path to promotion. It's quite nice that she gets experience from her own pool, too.

i'd just rather deploy another unit that can fight then a staffbot that doesn't really contribute to the completion of the chapter. Perhaps it's personal preference?

I find keeping my party alive to be quite the valuable contribution. You have no shortage of good combatants in this game, especially by the time Lucius arrives (you've just gotten Florina, Kent, Sain, and Raven in the past couple chapters).

[General Horace]

Why would I use someone who can only take one enemy per turn over someone who can handle multiple? Note that I'm not talking about Serra here (though she can certainly take more enemies per turn than Lucius).

Uh, what? Vulnerary will never replace healers, especially in the games where it only heals 10. Player phase combat is nice to have.

Physic and Barrier don't turn Serra into a "real unit," they simply speed up her path to promotion. It's quite nice that she gets experience from her own pool, too.

I find keeping my party alive to be quite the valuable contribution. You have no shortage of good combatants in this game, especially by the time Lucius arrives (you've just gotten Florina, Kent, Sain, and Raven in the past couple chapters).

why use anybody other than the Paladins and Wyverns then? They can skate through the game without need of any staff user other than Pent, who also can fight. Serra definately can't fight more enemies than Lucius can reliably. They both die in the same number of attacks, be it at 50 hit or 40 hit. The avoid difference really isn't that much anyway until much later where the huge difference in their luck growth becomes more apparent. Serra also can't wield any Light Magic without losing attack speed, and lacks the magic to consistantly ORKO without using stronger tomes, which may result in her failing to double (again until much later on).

Vulneraries can absolutely replace a healer past Chapter 15 in HHM. Enemies aren't threatening enough to warrent needing to heal more than 10HP a turn, and every single unit isn't going to need to defeat an enemy with their player phase action, especially since FE7 is a very enemy phase centric game.

I'm not arguing Lucius is better than Florina/Kent/Sain or whatever other top tier units you're gonna toss out, that much is obvious. All i'm saying is why bother using a staff user when you can just use an offensive magic user right away that eventually gains staves (faster than Serra gains tomes) anyway well before the need for staves exists.

Do you think Serra is better than Erk and Canas too? If so, I'll say we're in disagreement merely based on playstyle. I've never found staves to be particularly useful in FE7 (and 8). Unless you're using warp or something that is.

Edited October 16, 2015 by General Horace

[Refa]

Serra gains levels at a glacial pace if you're playing with any modicum of speed, so it's obviously Lucius.

[Florete]

Do you think Serra is better than Erk and Canas too? If so, I'll say we're in disagreement merely based on playstyle. I've never found staves to be particularly useful in FE7 (and 8). Unless you're using warp or something that is.

Yes, especially since this is the hard modes we're talking about. On normal modes, I would say Erk, Canas, and Lucius are all better because healing just isn't important enough. But on hard modes, even your stronger units will need healing to stay safe. Compared to Lucius, Serra also eventually gets you a semi-decent extra combatant for free.

Serra gains levels at a glacial pace if you're playing with any modicum of speed, so it's obviously Lucius.

I dunno, Serra was my first unit promoted in my HM ranked runs (and Priscilla was soon after). I definitely was playing with more than a modicum of speed.

[Loki Laufeyson]

*stifles an epic guffaw*

Ahehaheh ahem....

Lucius has a lot of advantages over Serra. But the two neednt be exclusive. (unless you want them to be) Lucius' mag is far superior and his speed often outranks Serra's (after promotion). Lucius, upon promotion, gets a C rank in staves, Its not long before hes using a Physic with massive range. Lucius is promoting long before Serra is. Serra's mag isnt going to come anywhere near Lucius' regarding combat, no matter what. You arent getting a Physic before Dragon's Gate anyway, and Lucius is likely to be promoted by then. Serra is useful without the Guilding Ring and yeah, you can stand not promoting her right away. But when it comes down to it, Lucius is better statistically. (promoted)

[Baldrick]

In ranked you're spreading combat exp out quite thin, and staff spamming a lot more because it's free exp. You even admitted before that Serra gains exp slowly since she can't get kills; while it doesn't matter before promotion, if you want to compare their combat, Lucius will most likely be at a higher level.

[Florete]

In ranked you're spreading combat exp out quite thin, and staff spamming a lot more because it's free exp. You even admitted before that Serra gains exp slowly since she can't get kills; while it doesn't matter before promotion, if you want to compare their combat, Lucius will most likely be at a higher level.

Why staff spam any less just because you're not doing ranked? The point of my post was that you can raise a healer (two, in fact) reasonably well even while playing at a brisk pace. If you're using a healer, you might as well do what you can to raise them, right?

Serra also has an experience boost on promotion, so she'll pass him up in level even if she doesn't promote first.

You arent getting a Physic before Dragon's Gate anyway, and Lucius is likely to be promoted by then.

How the hell is Lucius going to be promoted 4 maps after recruitment?

[dondon151]

serra blows, unpromoted staff use is not very valuable in FE7 and there's no reason to deploy more than one staff user in unranked play.