Trinity Mafia - Game Over

[eclipse]

I sheeped because if Boron hadn't made that post going into D2 it likely would have been me only it would have been a lot shorter. I wasn't lying about work being in fifteen minutes. I made it clear I was going in her direction in my prior post and I saw no reason I shouldn't help apply pressure before I went on my retail sales adventures. Alas, she still hasn't replied. Simply posting her other reads would be beneficial; I really don't want her to do what she did in D1 today and we find ourselves in D3/4 and still struggling to read her.

How 'bout this: If both Mancer and Tiny Goddess continue to not-post, we lynch one today and the other tomorrow. I know it seems hypocritical after I stuck my neck out back in D1, but Mancer is not helping with his absence, and in the name of moving the game forward, I'm willing to take the gamble that he's a third party instead of what I think he is (and if he is what I think he is, he's not helping in the least). Tiny Goddess not posting anything, yet posting elsewhere puts her in the same situation as Mancer.

Feel slightly better about you after this post (in other words, would not lynch right now, even though the first D2 post was meh).

No I'm not quoting this. My thoughts, in order:

- (Pg. 3) The first mention of me is a hindsight read, and the reason why I was on him was because a bunch of early posts dedicated to game mechanics is fishing. . .and if you're going to use a hindsight read, I will too, and say that my analysis of him fishing was spot-on, because he wasn't a part of a trinity.

- (Pg. 6) Again, hindsight read, and not a good one. An inactive D1 lynch means that we're more-or-less back at square one come D2, minus a couple of people. As for why I'm being secretive. . .no, you're not getting that. The fact that I spoke up to get the lynch off of Mancer forced me to reveal a lot more than I was comfortable with. The question you'll have to ask is why I'm so hellbent on keeping everything under wraps, and whether or not this would be more likely from a non-town member than a town one.

- Go ahead and think that my application of pressure is bad. There wasn't much to work with, and I get stronger as town as the game goes on (the inverse is true when I'm scum).

- The theory I have NOW is that there's a mafia in two of the trinities, one is a wild card, and if there's a third party, it's in my trinity. I didn't think of this possibility until D2. This is why I've turned my opinion of Mancer around. It also means that if I run with this theory. . .the ideal lynch today is one of you/Lord Gaius. Neither of you are super-town, but at the same time, the two of you aren't holding the game up as hard as Mancer/Tiny Goddess.

- What about the possibility that Tiny Goddess is mafia and her team flaked? Or it could be because Refa had very little suspicion on him. Regardless, I don't think Refa was the best kill. I would've gone after someone who was less active, to give the town less information on D2, especially after a bodyguard flip.

Hey guys sorry i woke up super late so i didnt have time to post in the morning and now im out for dinner with my fam so I'll post more comprehensive later but eclipse do you srsly think sb would have a 3p pseudomasonry in a 13p game? Also earlier you were like 'i wont vote mancer YET' and now it's like 'it would be insane for mancer to be scum'? Also you were suspicious of clarinets partially for role reasons, can you reveal those now?

Reread my D2 stuff. Yes, I changed my mind, because I have more time to think.

I suspected Clarinets wasn't in a trinity, and felt that those without one would have a decent chance of being scum. I had to revise that opinion on-flip.

And eclipse, I overreacted in my first post. I'm sorry.

Apology accepted. I'll explain more in postgame.

Also I think she's just wrong about her trinity power.

I think two of the three people in my trinity don't think that my trinity power's worth what I did in D1 (and I think most of the game would agree, if they saw my role PM). However, I have plans for both this power and this role. Big plans. And I intend on making scum cry the minute it activates.

Elieson's post reeks of hindsight reads, but given the situation he subbed into, I can't fully fault him for it. I'd like to see what he posts for D2 analysis before shoving him out of null.

Lord Gaius subbing out is unfortunate, and Boron's lack of anything is beginning to bug me more. Yet Tiny Goddess STILL hasn't responded to the votes on her, Mancer is nowhere to be found, and I want more info from Elieson. So it's a matter of voting the guy I'm currently voting (who sadly doesn't have the time to explain why being defensive of everyone is a bad scum read), or three people who I need more information from.

Can we lynch everyone but me, and call it a day? I'm finding it really hard to stay motivated when there's so little new info go to off of.

[eclipse]

Oh, right, BBM, once you get back For Real, please answer the question I've posed.

[Sunwoo]

Hey, I can't really give anything if nothing else new is happening. My current scum read is absent. The person whom I suspected in D1 who was not the lynch hasn't come back. So far I have no problems with Elieson, looking through D1 stuff didn't really give me anything new other than what I'd already posted.

I don't have a good feeling about Yolo, I think it's because he seems to be dancing around his suspicion of Mancer and his Gaius vote seems to be solely on Gaius's defense of Mancer and not much else. He also seems to have a "narrow" focus on players and players' actions.

Also, I've been debating whether I need to say this or not, but I don't think it's not important. If the other two members in my trinity have roles that are similar at all to mine, I think it is very possible that there may be at least one scum in it. I don't particularly feel all that great about the other two people in my trinity either, so I'm going to have to reread them both.

[Shinori]

Reading.

[Shinori]

Shinori is really bugging me, because his Refa scumread felt like it was being different for the sake of being different and not just hopping on a wagon. He even said there was no scum intent behind claiming the trinity.

Would I really claim refa as scummy then shoot his ass? ._.

[Shinori]

Also crystas initial sheep vote seems really bad to me.

[Shinori]

BBM you think eclipse is wrong about her trinity power? O.o

[Shinori]

In response to what elie said.

I think I initially misinterpreted refas claim thing. Also as for why I found him scummy: I didn't see what he did as something scum or town would EVER really do. And since someone generally doing something like that would just get swept under the rug and ignored I honestly felt he was scum doing it for like townie points or just points to not being worried about.

[Crysta]

Elie's play-by-play is alright as far as I can tell. Live D2 interaction will likely be more useful but apparently it's forthcoming.

How 'bout this: If both Mancer and Tiny Goddess continue to not-post, we lynch one today and the other tomorrow. I know it seems hypocritical after I stuck my neck out back in D1, but Mancer is not helping with his absence, and in the name of moving the game forward, I'm willing to take the gamble that he's a third party instead of what I think he is (and if he is what I think he is, he's not helping in the least). Tiny Goddess not posting anything, yet posting elsewhere puts her in the same situation as Mancer.

Feel slightly better about you after this post (in other words, would not lynch right now, even though the first D2 post was meh).

First post was like a 1/10 so I'll take the 'meh'.

I'm leaning more towards a Mancer lynch at this point, really, but I'll move my vote when it's necessary. I can see a newbie being dissuaded from posting in the thread right away (through being intimidated) moreso than Mancer given he's been getting heat since the beginning of D1.

I want to believe they're both scum just so it makes this mess a lot easier to sort out.

Would I really claim refa as scummy then shoot his ass? ._.

I actually laughed outloud at this for some reason then felt dumb.

Re-reading that actually makes it sound worse because like Refa said in his post right before he bit the dust: he's in the same boat. Voting Yolo in spite of clearly having a stronger read on Clarinets - because he didn't like Yolo's play more than actual scum intent if I recall correctly. Aaand he subbed out before he answered my question.

BBM you think eclipse is wrong about her trinity power? O.o

I believe he meant he think she's wrong about her deduction that whatever power it is that it would definitely not be granted to scum. Mancer's in the trinity and he himself doesn't seem 100% convinced, either.

[charlie_]

Quote subs in for Roxas.

Gaius is the only person who still needs a sub I think.

[Percivalé]

hi everyone please don't mind how rusty and bad I am going to be and also I have a job irl now so I won't be able to check the game during my shifts which usually last eight hours.

but otherwise, hi! I am bad at being a sub but I'm going to try to read through at least most of the game when I wake up tomorrow. it's nice to see you all again!

[Tiny_Manakete]

I don't like Mancer sheeping on my wagon without anything to say with it at all?

Also I have a small amount of time so this is the only post I can pull out.

Tiny Goddess' only case and only mentioned scum read was on Clarinets, who is now dead town, and the only other person that they mentioned was Archer of Gold. Do you have anything to say about people like eclipse or BBM or Mancer or me? What is your stance on all the other stuff that has happened in the thread?

The Clarinets case was the most recent one that I skimmed over so I followed that one a little more easily. I do have a bit to say at the moment.

I find Crysta to be town. Seeing as her case on me is perfectly fine I see no reason why she should be scum. I'm fine if they want to poke more at me. She also does bring a good point about Mancer that I didn't see before.

Boron is in the clear as well, but I don't agree with his opinion on Roxas/Archer. [see: My case/unvote on him] How come you're not voting for him any more? I'm not sure why you have a vote on me if you find his words odd as well. If I missed a particular post, cause I just skimmed your ISO, then you should tell me.

Shinori wat. Crysta's sheeping on me to be completely fine, as she had made a case earlier on me prior to the post. I'm not sure what you find bad about it. Also he also doesn't seem to post a lot of content + his Refa vote so I'm getting a little suspicious of him.

BBM is... Okay. Applying pressure/asking questions is fine that I don't find neither scum nor town to do. Would sheep his Mancer case but I still want Mancer to have a chance.

I really don't have a lot of time so I'm splitting this up into two posts when I come back. Which is around 12 PM.

[Sunwoo]

Archer had been gone for the latter half of D1, produced no content so far on D2, and only just got a sub. It's not like they had a lot of content either. Putting my vote on a slot that has done nothing and wouldn't be convinced to do anything with my vote is, quite frankly, a waste of a vote.

TG, is Shinori scum or just suspicious?

[Crysta]

Well... okay. That's a start, I guess, but you should probably do more than skim at this point. I feel a lot of those questions can be answered by D2's content.

Applying pressure/asking questions is fine that I don't find neither scum nor town to do.

Elaborate? I'm kind of confused at the wording (may just be early morning typos). Are you just saying it's not alignment-indicative, and if so, what do you find potentially alignment-indicative so far? I admit this is more me trying to gauge what you think is scum intent more than anything.

Refa's dead. Do you think it would have been in Shinori's best interest to have him/his team then shoot Refa during the following night phase?

[charlie_]

pls subs halp votals

(3) Tiny Goddess: Boron, Crysta, MancerNecro

(2) Lord Gaius: Omega, eclipse

(1) Mancer: BBM

(1) Omega: Lord Gaius

(4) Not Voting: Everyone else.

11 alive, 6 hammers.

Deadline.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##vote mancer

swag

[BBM]

whoops I was making a post last night and then we started putting up our christmas tree and then I fell asleep mid-post gg

@eclipse- If there's this special use of your trinity power that only you saw, it's possible that SB didn't either. Also, why talk about Boron as if Refa killspec is all she did? She used that as a springboard but it's a little disingenuous to ask her if she "has anything else". And I went through your posts and I can't find a question addressed to me. Can you quote it?

crysta brings up a good point about Gaius's Mancer read actually; I'd kind of misremembered Gaius's posts. Gaius's stance on Mancer is not so much a townread as a neutral read. I kind of dislike that for another reason, because I want Gaius to take a stance on Mancer, who was a top scumread of the thread, (guess he won't if he's subbing out). But regardless scumreading someone for having a bad case =/= townreading the person being cased. So yeah I would also like the quotes from Omega.

The whole "scum!Shinori wouldn't have killed Refa" thing is a bad line of thinking because a) Shinori hadn't gotten good attention for his Refa case, so it provides him with an out, and b) Even if Shinori didn't want an out, there are probably two other people on the scumteam, and they might have wanted Refa dead more than Shinori wanted him alive.

Shinori, what? How does "something that neither scum nor town would do" equate to "scum trying to do it for townie points"? How would it get Refa townie points if it's a null action? Barely any of those posts are reads either. Come on. >_> Why is Crysta's sheepvote worse than Mancer's?

@TG- What do you mean by "you want Mancer to have a chance"? Votes aren't forever; if Mancer comes back and starts posting Grade A+ content; I'll switch away.

anyways gotta go buy MORE ORNAMENTS, will be back later

[Crysta]

Point on Shinori taken.

Gonna go sleep now but I'll be around.

[BBM]

One thing I just realized about why I don't like Shinori's posts in this game- when putting out suspicions he's taking one action they did and saying it's scummy, and then not bothering to look at the rest of that person's posts. His Refa vote was literally based only off one line in one post that Refa made, even though Refa had a lot of other content to look at too. It's the same to a lesser extent with the Crysta bit, although to a lesser extent because he didn't vote her.

ok bye now

[eclipse]

Should not be mafiaing at this hour. ;/

BBM - The way you're approaching my content is beginning to bug me, at about the same strength as Boron's D2 stuff before she spoke up at ~9:30 PM my time. It feels like you're trying to find anything to question, while simultaneously ignoring this:

I worded that a bit badly, because I was in somewhat of a hurry. It WOULD be insane for mafia to be in my trinity. I suspect that if there's anti-town in our trinity, it's a third party, because it doesn't clash so hard with the trinity power we've got. SO. . .you think that Mancer's acting like a third party? Because there's way too little for me to say yes/no right now.

Also, my read on Boron during D1 is weasel-wordy, especially the first one. That was intentional.

Would like to see the rest of Tiny Goddess' content, because she's mentioned about a quarter of the game. What she provided isn't enough for me to insta-vote her, but it's also not enough to convince me that she wouldn't be a good candidate for today's lynch.

Re-reading that actually makes it sound worse because like Refa said in his post right before he bit the dust: he's in the same boat. Voting Yolo in spite of clearly having a stronger read on Clarinets - because he didn't like Yolo's play more than actual scum intent if I recall correctly. Aaand he subbed out before he answered my question.

Oh, right, and now I'm a weak scumread for voting him. I would've loved to see a counter to my case (and why it's a scummy one), but I don't think that'll happen.

Also crystas initial sheep vote seems really bad to me.

Shinori stating the obvious.

Other than that sheep vote, what are your thoughts on her/the rest of the game?

---

Not much in activity, so other than BBM sliding down a bit, my reads haven't changed. Whee.

[eclipse]

Man, and here I thought BBM was the only one with his reading skills.

BBM - will neither confirm or deny what you said about my trinity power.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

i really think theres at least 1 scum between gaius/mancer. we should b lynching between them and offing the other tomorrow should we hit town today. i think its unlikely theyre aligned doe

[Tiny_Manakete]

@Boron: Just suspicious, although his actions are starting to get a bit scummy. Like, his posts aren't even reads at best...?

@TG- What do you mean by "you want Mancer to have a chance"? Votes aren't forever; if Mancer comes back and starts posting Grade A+ content; I'll switch away.

Well, he hasn't posted since, like his terrible sheep vote on me so until he starts getting somewhere then I should wait.

Elaborate? I'm kind of confused at the wording (may just be early morning typos). Are you just saying it's not alignment-indicative, and if so, what do you find potentially alignment-indicative so far? I admit this is more me trying to gauge what you think is scum intent more than anything.

Refa's dead. Do you think it would have been in Shinori's best interest to have him/his team then shoot Refa during the following night phase?

Yes, I'm saying it's not that alignment indicative because it can hurt and benefit both sides.

No. It was getting a little obvious that he wasn't getting much praise for his Refa vote. If he/his team killed Refa during the night then he would be the more likely candidate to be the most suspicious. Due to his previous actions, I don't believe he would be that forward with it imo.

[BBM]

@eclipse- I don't think Mancer, or anybody, is an ITP. The numbers are too difficult in a 13p game; 9/3/1 sucks for town (possibility of D2 potential MYLO if the ITP has a kill) and 10/2/1 sucks for scum (possible for town to win N1/D2). 10/3 is just way easier to balance.

I'm questioning everything you say because you feel like Clarinets D1, but with more content. That is, I feel like you're town but it's not just that I disagree with what you're saying, what you're saying/doing doesn't make sense. It's like we're reading a completely different game. Boron barely spoke about Refa killspec. Then you were like "Boron had shitty content until my time 9:30" but the posts she made between that and your previous post saying her lack of content was worrying you were barely anything; less than her previous content in fact. And a 3p masonry in a 13p game?

Also, my top two scumreads, Mancer and Shinori, are inactive. I don't think Mancer and Shinori are both scum though; I doubt there are two scum in one trinity. So I'm maybe questioning more and casing less than I often do because I'm trying to pressure the more active people but I don't actually think any of them are very scummy atm.

Elie's post looks okay at a skim I guess, in that I can see his logic and thought process, but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions? Elie, why does Eclipse hard-defend Mancer D1? The point of scum white-knighting town is for them to look better after the town guy flips, not for them to actually stop that lynch.

My opinion on Omega is I guess kind of the opposite as my opinion on Elie- I agree with his overall conclusions on Mancer and kind of Gaius but not sure if I see his logic. Particularly wrt Gaius-Mancer interactions- what I found most suspicious was that Gaius had no real opinion on Mancer, who's kind of a hot topic. After looking more at Gaius's posts I don't think he really defended Mancer as Omega is claiming. It bugs me a little that he kind of just ignored the Crysta and me saying this though.

TG- if Shinori isn't scummy yet, who is? Your reads don't have any conviction to them and I don't see

fwiw I also don't get the difference between "suspicious" and "scummy"; I use them practically interchangeably (goes towards both Boron and TG). If I find enough things people did that are suspicious, they become suspicious people and if they're suspicious people then I'm scumreading them/they're scummy.

[Shinori]

Massive headache but I just woke up reading some more so I can get stuff in more of a way thats easier to understand hopefully.