Realm of Mirrors - Game Over

[SB.]

because of the stuff that happened around phase end mostly, read my vote at day start

[Paperblade]

mmk

well I was redirected from Boron too so unless there's some role weirdness or you got really lucky there's probably a ninja

[SB.]

Scum aren't necessarily going to post something that's factually incorrect, they'd twist it to suit their needs, which I address in the not-blue things.

Perhaps behind the scenes wasn't quite the best way to put it, but you're way less involved than I'd expect you to be, especially if you were a major wagon. Either that or I've taken reading lessons from BBM and Rapier.

SB, despite his uncertainty, he voted me anyway, but swapped at the slightest scent of anything else. It could be that he seriously doubted his read, but even then, the amount of effort he put into it made it look like he was sticking to it anyway.

I know scum are capable of twisting meaning to help them push townies (and got a kind of similar vibe from your non-blue stuff) but what do you think scum get from saying "i'm not sure" so many times to the point that they're sure to get shit for it?

What more do you expect I should've been involved in? I was (admittedly a very small) part of the early Junko wagon, then got wagoned myself and had to defend myself when nobody else was really being pushed and then was part of deciding the lynch at phase end. Seriously.

Wrt Junko's voteswap, upon reviewing it again I am less forgiving of the swap itself, but don't feel like the case itself came from scum.

[SB.]

also what i have learned from this game is: not to do shit in the middle of the night

[Refa]

SB is town: He accidentally picked the wrong target (Boron instead of Oceanbourne), there is a scum ninja

SB is scum: He targeted Cam w/a kill and he targeted Boron w/his role

Town is more likely.

I read a little bit of Code Geass and I don't see where you're getting this from? He had way more conviction faked in his reads there than he has in this game.

It's bad to me because it feels like someone told him to do it. Like, why did he decide to sheep that Junko's case of all things when nothing convinced him to talk at all day 1? It doesn't make sense.

Uh...so funny story. I was actually reading his AM/PM 2 ISO (probably since I was checking out Elie's ISO from that game as well) and confusing it w/Code Geass. You're 100% on the mark WRT his Code Geass ISO, he was way more confident and tunneling every day. Sorry about that, Junk. I'm...going to put him as a townread because I can't reconcile the massive differences between his play in both games.

But why would someone tell him to do that? It doesn't make him seem more likely to be town (like even I'm just reading it as null) nor does it help him in any way.

##Unvote

##Vote: Zerosabers

[SB.]

I don't mean that someone literally said "sheep this vote" specifically but it feels like he was prodded to take a stance on something

this might just be paranoia from when i asked manix if he was going to be subbed overnight and thought that he might be staying in because he was maf lurking it out and sending a night action

[Shin]

I know scum are capable of twisting meaning to help them push townies (and got a kind of similar vibe from your non-blue stuff) but what do you think scum get from saying "i'm not sure" so many times to the point that they're sure to get shit for it?

What more do you expect I should've been involved in? I was (admittedly a very small) part of the early Junko wagon, then got wagoned myself and had to defend myself when nobody else was really being pushed and then was part of deciding the lynch at phase end. Seriously.

Wrt Junko's voteswap, upon reviewing it again I am less forgiving of the swap itself, but don't feel like the case itself came from scum.

Too lazy to do colours. I don't really have anything to say about the first part, except I think my situation's more likely. I still took issue with the swap. Coby comes across as incredibly newbie town and I don't see how Town!Junko would give up a case they put a lot of effort into to pursue it.

The second point's fair enough, looking back, you posted more than I recalled. I can't really say anything else about this other than SHIN DOOFED. I think my issue was more with early game but hey, you're not a fantastically strong read of mine.

I also have a quick question, why would scum use their ninja N1 (if they have one) on Cam? It just seems a rather unusual thing to do.

[Refa]

Oh, I didn't actually think about it. Did he not get prodded yesterday?

[Shin]

I don't mean that someone literally said "sheep this vote" specifically but it feels like he was prodded to take a stance on something

this might just be paranoia from when i asked manix if he was going to be subbed overnight and thought that he might be staying in because he was maf lurking it out and sending a night action

My main thing is that surely his team would tell him to actually say something, unless they were going for the "he's a noob, they'll let it slide" card.

[Paperblade]

I'm reading isos kind of at random since my weekend started a bit early (yay for being sick) so I have free time now

On GP: Reading over her posts I think her logic is pretty clear and she thinks about things in a protown way. I don't agree with some of her conclusions though. Quote's play was pretty obvtown on meta. You or others may not like the playstyle but all I can say is that you are wrong if you think it comes from a mafia mindset.

The thing about the Cam kill is on one hand you could say "mafia killed Cam because he was tunneling on a mafia member" but you could also argue that Cam was a safe kill and no one really thought he was suspicious iirc, plus it could lead to a mislynch on Junko. Basically, theorizing about why Cam was killed probably won't prove too fruitful

I also feel like she doesn't talk about a lot of players, which I'm not sure what to think of. She writes a lot but it's mostly about Cam, Boron, Junko, Quote, and me. Really torn here.

Boron: She seems busy, but I kind of have a gut mafia read. I feel like as town, Boron tends to have "stronger" opinions about who is town and who is mafia, but here I feel like she's just got a group of people she finds scummy and is willing to go on any of them.

Ocean: I feel like he's playing differently from the previous game where he was mafia but admittedly I don't know him well enough to be sure, plus there's the thing of being a sub vs. not. His late day 1 was fucking garbage tho

Agreed that Coby not getting subbed is super weird

@Others: Do you think Junko would OMGUS Via as town, mafia, or both?

[Paperblade]

I also kind of feel like Izhuark was emotown based on his last post

[Refa]

Re: Junko- Town. This isn't a meta read, I just feel like town is more likely to OMGUS than scum in the current meta.

Izhuark's last post was town but Zerosabers' reads post isn't.

[SB.]

I somehow thought that Zerosabers said a lot more than they did in their opening post, there aren't a lot of explained reads there with comments like "I hope Elieson posts more" instead. The weirdest bit for me is the "Shin is hard to read" comment because I don't think Zero has even played with Shin before? Which makes me feel like the comment was just parroted from someone else.

[SB.]

Re: Junko- Town. This isn't a meta read, I just feel like town is more likely to OMGUS than scum in the current meta.

As someone who OMGUSes probably too much as scum I kind of disagree with this (as a general thing), but feel like scum!Junko would be more hesitant to go after Via who usually isn't lynched if people know their playstyle well enough.

[Refa]

I dunno, maybe I'm just speaking from personal experience because I never want to case someone after they cased me as scum (because even though that's not actually scummy, people are still going to scumread you for it anyways). He went after Blitz in Code Geass, so I wouldn't agree w/the second part.

[SB.]

From my experience it's way easier to get into OMGUSing because you're constantly arguing "no i'm not mafia" which can lead to "this push on me is horseshit and you're scum for it".

[SB.]

The point about Blitz is fair I guess.

[Shin]

I can kinda see where SB's coming from. I've seen scum try and not draw attention to a vote, it's way easier as town to jump on it because you know it's a vote on town.

[Refa]

Fair enough, SB. Also can you answer this?

Oh, I didn't actually think about it. Did he not get prodded yesterday?

Basically my thoughts are that if he did get prodded, then he's most likely town (because Manix would sub me in for his slot over Bizz if he was scum). If he didn't, then I agree w/what you and Paperblade saying about that being suspicious.

[SB.]

I don't think he got prodded but this is just based on my memory.

[SB.]

I ISOed Manix and if he did prod Coby, there was no mention of it.

[Paperblade]

I don't think Manix mentioned prodding of anyone tho

[SB.]

I keep stopping midway through Ocean's post because of walls and while I don't disagree with most of what he was saying (and the explanation for phase end shenanigans makes it a little better at least) but it feels like he's not really pushing anything in it? It feels like he's just kind of there.

[Junk]

my coby vote was irritation and wanting him to actually post, to show that no you can't just sit there and expect to get by in the game. I thought everyone knew it was obvious that i wasn't voting him for scum intent >_>. Didn't really think anything was going to change with shin regardless if i had my vote on him or not.

@shin yes i don't have conviction in my case but who else do you expect me to vote then at that point? Why can't town have a lack of conviction? Also where did you say that you didn't want to advocate a lynch for via since people didn't feel like it? Also if we even assume that coby is scum anyway scumbuddies are perfectly fine letting him not do anything considering no one is paying attention to him lol, i.e the best outcome. There's also a chance he isn't even communicating with his scumbuddies. We could run around with circles in this all day. Also is SB scum? Also I use also a lot.

Another thing that bugs me about shin is that he seems to support me when the oppurtunity looks good (i.e the via trio vote) but then gets cold feet when he knows i'll look bad. The rest of my shin case can be summed up as this. While his reasoning makes sense the way he goes about it feels bad to me. Scum can have perfectly fine cases too otherwise they'd never be townread in games lol.

@ refa so lets look at the people on my wagon

SB, assumed this was on rvs vote

quote, actually did find weird until they explained their argument and realize i used bad wording

paper, assumed was a pressure vote

elie, actually still don't like his vote. just gut feelings give me a bad vibe.

boron, already explained mostly why i think they are town although admittedly i'm not entirely sure why there read on me is still the same when i responded to why they thought omgus was scummy

cam, i actually think i forgot to mention him but i actually liked his vote on me because it felt like he was at least putting effort into something that would've been far easier. Another thing to note is that i could actually see some of his points such as him pointing out that my via vote was bad and giving a good reason as to why.

think that was all the people on my wagon, i'd already given my thoughts on most of these people except for cam.

@zerosaber haha worse is null was an accident, meant to say worse is more scummy, why is my shin vote bad? Also feel like a lot of your reads (town and null) lack justification. Would you like to elaborate?

Green poets vote is definitely bad because she says she agrees with my cam case but doesn't say anything about my defense towards cam so you can't just read half the stuff and call it a day. Also nightkill spec is dumb since we could just go around in circles arguing all day about why cam was killed. Via read is the same. Also i already mentioned what i thought about my d1 reads in my first shin vote i'm sure. As for what I think of GP i felt her d1 was null as I felt she could do that as both alignments. While I think her vote on me is bad at the same time I feel like this is more aligned with her town meta rather than scum meta and as scum she'd try to justify it with a better reason. Slight town.

@oceanbourne, yes because it makes me look like a victim therefore making the people who voted me even worse.

@boron err i'm kind of confused with your case. If we look at GP's posts (the serious ones that is) she makes a thoughts posts then votes cam. you respond with your post then she responds back. Then a bunch of posts later she votes via. You say she didn't contribute anything but idk what she could've have contributed?

Regarding her not pushing via much i don't really see it. She says that basically via's posts are a bunch of filler. Why doesn't this apply to shin as well since he pretty much responded with one sentence which i'm guessing is just the same thing GP said just with less words.

don't think my vote is going to do much at this point since it's been like 11 hours and coby still hasn't come back. Just going to say this, if you don't want to play or don't have time to play that's perfectly fine you can just ask for a sub but if you're going to play you have to post because otherwise you're just dead weight.

##unvote

## Vote Shin

PEDIT: uh still not sure about this SB stuff. Just based off pure gut i feel there is probably a ninja in the midst of this game? I guess we have to hear what SB says who he targeted and hear what paper has to say.

[solrocknroll]

Not playing

If Coby doesn't want to commit by some point, I would gladly sub for him. I spent like an hour reading this entire topic and I feel relatively well informed.

Not playing