carefreejules Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) They would be treading very dangerous territory if they decided to make him a girl. He's a male that likes frilly and cute clothes - so what? It's 2016 - anyone can like whatever the hell they want regardless of gender or sex. Like, people don't dress they way they do to show off or indicate their gender - People dress the way they do, because they like that piece of clothing or have particular fashion choices. Like, hell, if that isn't the case, I must be a male because all I wear are jeans, over-sized sweaters/hoodies, etc. This would fall under gender stereotypes and this would cause the BIGGEST SHIT STORM. Edited February 9, 2016 by carefreejules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah gameplay was what I meant Ana The Paper Mario thing was purely a matter of script and therefore could be changed easily but this is not so simple These are different situations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Except the change has more gameplay implications for Foleo. Remember that he can be married and thus can father Kanna, support female children, and marry them. Changing his gender changes all of that and it may be more of a technical hassle then it's worth. I did remember that. Didn't think it would be THAT much work. They would be treading very dangerous territory if they decided to make him a girl. He's a male that like frilly and cute clothes - so what? It's 2016 - anyone can like whatever they want regardless of gender or sex. Like, people don't dress they way they do to show off or indicate their gender. People dress the way they do, because they like that piece of clothing or have particular fashion choices. This would fall under gender stereotypes and this would cause the BIGGEST SHIT STORM. Wow, do you live under a rock? Because I still hear many recent stories about LGBT people being shunned and bullied and people being bullied just for the things they like. I feel like keeping Foleo male is what would cause the shitstorm. Not that I would condone it, people SHOULD be free to like and love whatever they want with no problem. But it doesn't matter to me since I won't be bothering with the children or even playing the game this kid appears in, so eh. Edited February 9, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 He looks like he's trying to pass for female to me. Look at what he wears... I don't doubt that many people thought he actually WAS female at first. Just because someone wears a dress or has long hair doesn't mean they're necessarily trying to pass as female. I never am. I know several people who aren't. I think its ultimately better to assume someone is a girl based off their looks(then they will simply correct you if you're wrong), but as stated earlier Foleo has insisted he's a boy. And that's that. Also, changing his gender will fuck with the gameplay mechanics, also stated above. Sorry if I'm sounding aggressive or defensive, but lately I've been taking this stuff personally. Its nothing against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why are you taking this personally? I was never in any way or form targeting you with my posts. I may find it creepy, but you're allowed to like and wear what you want. I'm not singling you out on anything. I just feel like there aren't yet a lot of westerners that would approve of a character like Foleo. It's sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) He looks like he's trying to pass for female to me. Look at what he wears... I don't doubt that many people thought he actually WAS female at first. Yes, I can see what he wears. I played the game and read all the translations and saw all the spoilers for myself. Which is why I'm telling you to not make assumptions about characters when you haven't even looked up information about the damn game to avoid spoilers. Foleo dresses in a feminine way, but he identifies as a man undoubtedly and doesn't like being mistaken for a woman. He shouldn't be changed to a woman just because some people are too narrow-minded to accept that a man can dress as Foleo does and still identify as a man. Not to mention the fucking nightmare of changing all of Foleo's S-supports if his gender was changed … Also, changing Foleo to a woman would cause just as big of a shitstorm (if not a bigger one) than leaving him as a man. Edited February 9, 2016 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why are you taking this personally? I was never in any way or form targeting you with my posts. I may find it creepy, but you're allowed to like and wear what you want. I'm not singling you out on anything. I just feel like there aren't yet a lot of westerners that would approve of a character like Foleo. It's sad, but true. I take it personally because I really relate to and identify with Foleo, and seeing anyone suggest he may be made a girl puts me on the defense. It is annoying and hurtful to be misgendered just because of my appearance so the thought that Foleo's gender might be changed just because he wears dresses is equally as annoying and hurtful. I'm not even gonna say anything about how you find it creepy. Since this is off topic, I will stop here. If you feel the need to continue this, just PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) He doesn't like being mistaken for a woman? Well, he shouldn't dress like one then! He can't blame others for thinking he's a girl because they thought he was one based on his appearance. I like this character even less already. If someone makes a mistake about your gender or something, it's just that, a mistake! They don't mean any harm. What, should everyone go around making like a Pokemon professor before saying anything else to a person? Edited February 9, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 He looks like he's trying to pass for female to me. Look at what he wears... I don't doubt that many people thought he actually WAS female at first. Go read his support with Soleil (unless you count that as a spoiler). He's very adamant about being male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I thought this was a joke! There's no way the writing can be this awful all the time, right? "YES, THE ADULT YOU ARE, AS OPPOSED TO A CHILD WHICH YOU LOOK LIKE. BY THE WAY, HOW'S THE KIDS?" <screams internally> I'm sure I could manage more natural dialogue. Like... "Your behavior isn't appropriate of a sexually mature woman with baby-birthing hips. By the way, Kamui. Have you noticed how available and sexually mature your not-blood-related sister is? Just putting it out there." If we're going fully parody mode, I want Leon to be constantly spilling his spaghetti and saying awkward lines. Elise looks like she could be as young as ten. But I put her age at around the 12-14 range. Sakura looks like she's 15. And yeah, it's completely possible that because it's Nohr and not the modern western world Elise would be considered an adult at 13. Of course, I imagine that not a lot of people are going to give that much thought because a lot of people can't think that deeply and they'll just giggle because as far as they know localization is trying to pass off Elise as 18+. Either way, the problem is not so much Elise's age but that there's a marriage system with instant-bake babies and marrying siblings in this game in the first place. If you couldn't marry Elise, I doubt her age would be an issue. I mean, I certainly don't remember anyone complaining about the 13-year-old Sanaki in RD! I think it's pretty obvious that the line is an attempt to placate a western audience and not an appeal to historical precedence. If the writers gave a hoot about authentic history then our psuedo Japan would be far more brutal. And yes, Sanaki not being an intentional target of the player's lust is relevant as to why you don't hear complaints. Edited February 9, 2016 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Clothes are just pieces of fabric, who are you to tell a fine young man who just wants to be cute he can't be cute I think foleo breaking gender roles is lovely, if leon can accept his son for the man he is then so can you--it'd be a double standard if we only approve of women breaking gender roles, but not men--and men should not be forced to be held to some arbitrary standards of "masculinity" if that's not who they are Maybe people should just misgender him less instead--those curls aren't even /that/ girly depending on culture and time period--which goes to show that these arbitrary standards of gender expression are decided on by people Edited February 9, 2016 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 He doesn't like being mistaken for a woman? Well, he shouldn't dress like one then! He can't blame others for thinking he's a girl because they thought he was one based on his appearance. I like this character even less already. If someone makes a mistake about your gender or something, it's just that, a mistake! They don't mean any harm. Foleo simply doesn't like that people judge him by his appearence and hobbies. And he's completely right. After all, his gender and what others think should in no way affect on what he should dress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 He doesn't like being mistaken for a woman? Well, he shouldn't dress like one then! He can't blame others for thinking he's a girl because they thought he was one based on his appearance. I like this character even less already. This may be one of the most insensitive things I've heard anyone say in this past week. You sound like someone blaming the victim. "Don't wear slutty clothes if you don't want people to do bad things to you!" The problem isn't people mistaking him for a woman. It's the vitriol that he gets from people who don't like that he doesn't conform to what is expected of men and likes to dress in women's clothing. Guess I should stop wearing clothes that I like just because people may mistake me for a man, right? -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreejules Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Clothes are just pieces of fabric, who are you to tell a fine young man who just wants to be cute he can't be cute I think foleo breaking gender roles is lovely, if leon can accept his son for the man he is then so can you THANK YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Clothes are just pieces of fabric, who are you to tell a fine young man who just wants to be cute he can't be cute I think foleo breaking gender roles is lovely, if leon can accept his son for the man he is then so can you--it'd be a double standard if we only approve of women breaking gender roles, but not men--and men should not be forced to be held to some arbitrary standards of "masculinity" if that's not who they are Maybe people should just misgender him less instead Truer words have never been spoken. Double standard indeed.Also, Foleo and Leo's supports are actually quite heartwarming. Edited February 9, 2016 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) This may be one of the most insensitive things I've heard anyone say in this past week. You sound like someone blaming the victim. "Don't wear slutty clothes if you don't want people to do bad things to you!" The problem isn't people mistaking him for a woman. It's the vitriol that he gets from people who don't like that he doesn't conform to what is expected of men and likes to dress in women's clothing. Guess I should stop wearing clothes that I like just because people may mistake me for a man, right? -_- How dare you. That isn't what I meant at all and you know it. If the problem ISN'T being mistaken for a woman, that's different then. I don't want to be judged as a person based on what I wear either. I made a mistake here, alright? Sorry about that. And sorry, but I can never like Foleo. I just don't like characters like that. Edited February 9, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Foleo is amazing, and if he wants sausage curls and cute clothes, let him! I'm a little worried about how they'll localize his supports. . .I don't want any of his awesomeness to be lost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ana, as someone who has a very good friend whos a straight guy who loves to wear dresses, your insensitivity is really bothersome and freaking offensive. Foleo wants to wear a dress, so what. Clothes are just pieces of fabric, who are you to tell a fine young man who just wants to be cute he can't be cute I think foleo breaking gender roles is lovely, if leon can accept his son for the man he is then so can you--it'd be a double standard if we only approve of women breaking gender roles, but not men--and men should not be forced to be held to some arbitrary standards of "masculinity" if that's not who they are Maybe people should just misgender him less instead--those curls aren't even /that/ girly depending on culture and time period--which goes to show that these arbitrary standards of gender expression are decided on by people This. And sorry, but I can never like Foleo. I just don't like characters like that. An aversion to something like this goes far deeper than "its just my opinion", i hope you are aware of that and understand why you are being judged. Its not just "i dont like characters like that" as much as its reading as outright bigotry to so many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soranauta Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Foleo is amazing, and if he wants sausage curls and cute clothes, let him! I'm a little worried about how they'll localize his supports. . .I don't want any of his awesomeness to be lost! His support with Leo is one of my favorite parent/child supports in the game, I hope the localization for it is good (although I'm sure it will be). Edited February 9, 2016 by soranauta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thank you to everyone defending Foleo. Just like I take attacks(not an applicable word here, but alas) towards him personally, I'm sorta taking this support personally too. Kind of lame, but I really appreciate it. It means a lot to know I'm part of such a great community. You're all amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 How dare you. That isn't what I meant at all and you know it. If the problem ISN'T being mistaken for a woman, that's different then. I don't want to be judged as a person based on what I wear either. I made a mistake here, alright? Sorry about that. And sorry, but I can never like Foleo. I just don't like characters like that. I may be repeating others, but please be more sensitve of others's feeling. Try having more empathy. Put yourself in Foleo's place. What if something you think is right is considered wrong by others? It's a horrible feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Foleo is amazing, and if he wants sausage curls and cute clothes, let him! I'm a little worried about how they'll localize his supports. . .I don't want any of his awesomeness to be lost! No joke. Hes one im looking the most forward to. Im having a hard time picking a mum for him tbh. I want pretty hair Foleo. Thank you to everyone defending Foleo. Just like I take attacks(not an applicable word here, but alas) towards him personally, I'm sorta taking this support personally too. Kind of lame, but I really appreciate it. It means a lot to know I'm part of such a great community. You're all amazing. Cheers. Its just some of us are or know people who can relate to this character in some way. I feel like his character might be handled with a bit more care out West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Wow, you people act like I want to kill all men who wear dresses. How ridiculous. I'm not a monster. So what if I don't like the idea of men dressing like girls? It doesn't mean I have anything against them personally. I just don't like one of their habits, that's all. You don't see me wanting to kill my mom because I don't like her habit of being nitpicky. God damn. Also, what's this about defending Foleo? No one is attacking him. Edited February 9, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 "Your behavior isn't appropriate of a sexually mature woman with baby-birthing hips. By the way, Kamui. Have you noticed how available and sexually mature your not-blood-related sister is? Just putting it out there." this is accurate and perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angienessyo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's very possible Foleo will make it through unscathed. I remember the US version of Naruto kept Haku as a male despite dressing and looking like a woman. And Naruto had a much younger target audience than Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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