Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Sylphid]

While I do agree that Gen 1 is getting too much attention at the expense of other generations, I also think the negative reaction to it is unnecessarily strong. Then again, I always think that about negative reactions on the internet.

Not really. It's not an Electric type, not a small mammal/rodent, and doesn't have circular cheek pouches. xP It just tries to dress as Pikachu and be loved like Pikachu. It doesn't evolve, but a lot of Pokemon don't evolve and we're not calling every single Pokemon that doesn't evolve a Pikaclone. :P

Togedamaru is much more of a Pikaclone, imo.

The bolded part is what I was referring to, actually. Mimikyu tries to be a literal pikachu clone and as a result looks more like Pikachu than actual Pikaclones do (and by the lore part in my previous I meant how it actively tries to be like Pikachu, unlike the others who do their own thing).

Obviously other important things like being an electric-type rodent don't apply to it, which is why it isn't a Pikaclone. All I'm saying that with its looks and backstory it's understandable why the mistake would be made.

(By the way, if you don't mind me asking, why did evolution enter this topic?)

[The DanMan]

@DanMan I don't remember the post to quote but 83 Alola pokemon is pretty fine along new Gen standards. For instance, Kalos brought around 70 new pokemon, so 80 is pretty fine. it doesn't change the fact they love Gen I but still

Please spoiler this at least. I don't want talks of stuff from the datamine to pop up after I make a point in the thread title to block it. I only put that info in the post because the argument had reached the point where my stance wouldn't make much sense without it.

Really, I should just edit my post right now.

[Anacybele]

The bolded part is what I was referring to, actually. Mimikyu tries to be a literal pikachu clone and as a result looks more like Pikachu than actual Pikaclones do (and by the lore part in my previous I meant how it actively tries to be like Pikachu, unlike the others who do their own thing).

Obviously other important things like being an electric-type rodent don't apply to it, which is why it isn't a Pikaclone. All I'm saying that with its looks and backstory it's understandable why the mistake would be made.

(By the way, if you don't mind me asking, why did evolution enter this topic?)

Oh, okay then, that's all fine. And I brought up evolution, because aside from Pikachu itself, none of the Pikaclones evolve. Mimikyu and Togedamaru don't evolve either. I wish we'd get one that evolves though. None of the Pikaclones have been really useful at all, and I wouldn't have minded using a cute Pachirisu if it had an evolution to help it.

[Magical Glace]

The funny thing about Pikaclones and evolution is Pikachu itself can evolve.

Raiclones when.

[Emerson]

Oh, okay then, that's all fine. And I brought up evolution, because aside from Pikachu itself, none of the Pikaclones evolve. Mimikyu and Togedamaru don't evolve either. I wish we'd get one that evolves though. None of the Pikaclones have been really useful at all, and I wouldn't have minded using a cute Pachirisu if it had an evolution to help it.

I think at this point it might be an unbreakable cycle. Being a Pikaclone pretty much means you won't evolve.

Also... I feel like you've never followed VGC...

Anything can be used well. <- Not true we just have some diamonds in the rough.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Emerson

[Water Mage]

I think at this point it might be an unbreakable cycle. Being a Pikaclone pretty much means you won't evolve.

Also... I feel like you've never followed VGC...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOx_Qdc6bqw

Anything can be used well.

I was about to post that when I was going to respond to that comment.

That battle was awesome!

[Anacybele]

I'm aware of that Pachirisu player that one a tourney, actually. It doesn't mean that Pachirisu is suddenly a top tier Pokemon. It's not in the top tier all because of that tourney, is it?

[Emerson]

I'm aware of that Pachirisu player that one a tourney, actually. It doesn't mean that Pachirisu is suddenly a top tier Pokemon. It's not in the top tier all because of that tourney, is it?

I'm not saying top tier. I'm saying not not helpful.

Heck, I'm thinking of running Zorua for 2018, or just generally using it more.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Emerson

[Magical Glace]

Se Jun Park is also a god at playing, so.

And Pachirisu is only good in doubles/triples.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Emerson]

Se Jun Park is also a god at playing, so.

And Pachirisu is only good in doubles/triples.

True, but I think my point still stands.

It's less about what you play with and more about how you play.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Emerson

[Quintessence]

Please spoiler this at least. I don't want talks of stuff from the datamine to pop up after I make a point in the thread title to block it. I only put that info in the post because the argument had reached the point where my stance wouldn't make much sense without it.

Really, I should just edit my post right now.

Ah damn, sorry. It was unintentional. Edited the post right away.

[Samias]

I think a lot of Pokemon who aren't viable in singles can be monsters in doubles. Smeargle is merely very strong in singles but there's no Pokemon to take off the pressure for it to switch in and set up. However it is one of the gods of double battles, nearly indispensable on many teams. Many Pokemon who rely on a setup before becoming a monster are stronger in doubles, which makes trick room and weather teams more viable as well. A strong tank with Follow Me can help take off a lot of heat from their partner.

[Sylphid]

Oh, okay then, that's all fine. And I brought up evolution, because aside from Pikachu itself, none of the Pikaclones evolve. Mimikyu and Togedamaru don't evolve either. I wish we'd get one that evolves though. None of the Pikaclones have been really useful at all, and I wouldn't have minded using a cute Pachirisu if it had an evolution to help it.

Huh. Funny, I never thought about that part, but you're right. I guess Pikaclones not evolving is a reference to Ash's Pikachu in the anime.

Raiclones when.

But yes, this basically

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The reason people didn't see Pachirisu as good is really because people generally use smogon tiers or "general knowledge" to judge a pokemon. If the pokemon looks weak, its weak. If its not OU in smogon, its weak which is kinda ironic when you think about it. People asking for Metagross buff while saying Dragonite during gen 5 is good is a big proof of this

Pachirisu is a funny case because the only reason its used is basically boils down too "Amoongus is too good" and its never a bad pokemon in that meta due to Follow Me. Players who are unexperience with VGC probably won't realize that Amoongus is on par with Mega Kangaskhan as far as being unbalanced goes, getting an honor for being the only pokemon getting an item specifically created to counter it during Gen 5 -> Gen 6 transition

Smeargle is kinda funny because its actually a very outclassed trash in doubles because whatever it wants to do, others can do with better stats. It become a game winning doubles threat in gen 6 entirely because for some dumb reason Dark Void isn't banned. For example the Gen 5 Viability Rank in Nuggetbridge lists Smeargle as D Rank, while 06s ranks it as S Rank.

Edited October 25, 2016 by JSND

[Emerson]

I guess, assuming Dark Void is still unbanned from VGC, Smeargle might be ranked higher than Mega Kangaskhan since it got nerfed.

We'll find out this year, since Smeargle AND Kangaskhan are in the Regional Dex.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Emerson

[Magical Glace]

I guess, assuming Dark Void is still unbanned from VGC, Smeargle might be ranked higher than Mega Kangaskhan since it got nerfed.

We'll find out this year, since Smeargle AND Kangaskhan are in the Regional Dex.

Mega Kanga's banned with the rest of the megas though...

[Anacybele]

Man, am I glad Finneon can learn Defog. This way, I didn't have to take up another one of Staravia's move slots for it when it already had to get Fly. Defog is the dumbest HM ever imo. lol Another reason for a DP remake, to get rid of this stupid thing. :P

Also, waiting the remaining time for Sun/Moon while avoiding the spoilers is so hard... :(

[Magical Glace]

All HM moves are dumb except Waterfall and Surf tbh.

All the Normal type ones are outclassed by Return, there are better ways to shell out Def Debuffs than Rock Smash, and Fly and Dive take multiple turns.

[Emeraldfox]

The great thing about Defog is that you -don't- really need it.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, but it makes the foggy areas a lot less annoying. Moves will miss more often in the fog when you battle. And it's easier to see where you're going without the fog too.

And btw Finneon has evolved now, yayz.

EDIT: Oh, and so did Luxio, so I have a Luxray too. ^^

Edited October 25, 2016 by Anacybele

[Thane]

The great thing about Defog is that you -don't- really need it.

Not using it gives everyone a taste of what it's like to play Fire Emblem: Gaiden.

Miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss...

[Anacybele]

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that I found not one, but two Skull Fossils in the Underground and I only dug a few times so far (because of wanting to continue the adventure, mainly). Pretty good luck. ^^

[Quintessence]

Man, am I glad Finneon can learn Defog. This way, I didn't have to take up another one of Staravia's move slots for it when it already had to get Fly. Defog is the dumbest HM ever imo. lol Another reason for a DP remake, to get rid of this stupid thing. :P

Also, waiting the remaining time for Sun/Moon while avoiding the spoilers is so hard... :(

I don't recall correctly Defog's aplicability in game, but clearing fog is fine, imo.

All HM moves are dumb except Waterfall and Surf tbh.All the Normal type ones are outclassed by Return, there are better ways to shell out Def Debuffs than Rock Smash, and Fly and Dive take multiple turns.

Thing is you're looking it at a combat perspective rather than its use ingame. There are a bunch of moves that fall under the same criteria of dumbness or unnecessary, but if we look moves under their competitive usage then it would be pretty boring; honestly competitive scenes are inherently boring and predictable.

[Anacybele]

In a battle, Defog decreases evasion, so I suppose it's a counter to annoying moves like Minimize and Double Team.

[Moblin Major General]

My opinion on all moves that have been an HM at one point:

Cut-Better than Tackle but quickly becomes obsolete in battle and unnecessary after it's initial use.

Fly- Depending on the generation, your most powerful and available Flying move for most of the game. Also your best transportation.

Surf: The most useful HM of all. As powerful as T-bolt, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam, and even can hit for ~70 on opponents in doubles and triples. Very necessary for watery regions.

Strength: An average move, not as strong as max level Return or Frustration, but good until either is maxed.

Flash: pretty good for annoying, but useless (and in some cases irremovable) once applied.

Whirlpool: Was an HM a generation after it would be considered useful. Also sees required use once in the entire game.

Rock Smash: Near useless at first, okay filler early in later generations, and can even be useful in chipping later.

Waterfall: Inferior Surf pre-Gen IV, more accurate Aqua Tail later.

Dive: Water Type Dig without the escape utility. At least it can get you untold fortune later.

Defog: More useless than Sweet Scent, less than necessary outside of battle.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Hylian Air Force