What other TRPG series rivals Fire Emblem?

[Tryhard]

refa knows the best fe is fe1

tbf, don't blame us. blame yourself or god, such a good line, though. unfortunate I think they changed it in a certain version (?)

edit: hmm, apparently it was war of the lions, but I did install a patch so maybe that reverted changes too.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Tryhard

[Soledai]

Yeah, it was changed in WoTL and every version after, I believe.

[Refa]

refa knows the best fe is fe1

tbf, don't blame us. blame yourself or god, such a good line, though. unfortunate I think they changed it in a certain version (?)

edit: hmm, apparently it was war of the lions, but I did install a patch so maybe that reverted changes too.

Yeah, it was. FE2 was pretty cool too, and the series jumped off the shark with FE3, never to return to quality tactical role playing gameplay ever again.

The original translation is worse overall, but it had a lot of individual lines that were better and punchier that the remake sort of...well, doesn't have (Surrender or die in obscurity, anyone?).

[Harvey]

Whatever.....

Point is that those two games are now outdated. There's never a new game out there unlike FE and sooner or later FE will do better than them.

Again, you being unfair stating that one game single handedly rivals a series when the topic is about discussing a continuous series that rivals Fire Emblem like Sakura Wars which isn't anywhere dormant as Final Fantasy Tactics.

[Tryhard]

why are you mad about this

like really

we're not even saying that fft is better than fe

and besides that, do you know that fe gained hugely in popularity after awakening? fe put out 12 games before that over a long period of time but none of them were hugely successful, so we wouldn't even be discussing FE in this manner if awakening didn't come out. otherwise, just because a series is inactive doesn't make it any less popular for the time, and you didn't really specify from what I could see that you wanted active TRPGs

so my bet is on xcom (enemy unknown, as 2 came out in february), which has edit: well I was originally going to say 3+ million but there's a lot of debate on how much it's actually true and how it's inaccurate (only on steam, so more) from data I can find, though this may be inaccurate. but it's not like bigger numbers are any indication of quality even though it will be comparable to fe

Edited June 3, 2016 by Tryhard

[Parrhesia]

Why are you so desperate to claim that Fire Emblem is somehow the objective best series in its genre?

[Harvey]

Why are you so desperate to claim that Fire Emblem is somehow the objective best series in its genre?

1. Because it does things better.

2. Its does more than just being TRPG and its a series that tries to expand further.

3. Its the one that started the genre and it should be the one that remains to be the best because its the only series that values the genre. Every other game simply devalues the whole point of TRPG.

4. It does character development better.

I can go on here. What really makes me mad is that FE is the one that got me into TRPGs. And if at all I didn't like FFT that much, it doesn't matter because that game somehow defines TRPG genre even though its made by the same guy who made tactics ogre and just copy pasted the mechanics of tactics ogre.

Now for some reason, FE shouldn't be considered a hardcore Nintendo IP because its still kept simple at that.

[Tryhard]

3. Its the one that started the genre and it should be the one that remains to be the best because its the only series that values the genre. Every other game simply devalues the whole point of TRPG.

Debatable. The early Ultima games predate FE1 and have all the elements of a tactical RPG and even then they were games before that. The series didn't become prolific in Japan until FE1, yes, but that wasn't the start of the genre.

Besides that, why must games of a certain genre rigidly conform to the tenets of its predecessors? Yes, there are certain aspects that define it as part of that genre, but if everything was to be modeled after this specific game, that would just mean there would be no progress or evolution, and that's a bad thing. I don't really see how other series devalue the points of tactical RPGs. You even suggest above that FE expanding is a good thing so what points are they exactly disregarding?

Edited June 3, 2016 by Tryhard

[Jedi]

Yeah, and the time to enjoy FE was 20 years ago whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Don't really have much more to add regarding FFT, since I basically agree w/Tangerine and Kelspers' view points. Everyone knows what FFT is and has probably given it a try at some point, but Tactics Ogre is really good as well and IMO although it plays similarly in some aspects, it has a very different appeal to it overall. Also the Ogre Battle games, while not strictly TRPG's, are supposed to be very good as well and I really should get around to playing them.

You really should! I'll keep bugging you till you do

I kid, but Ogre Battle March of the Black Queen and Person of Lordly Caliber are 2 of my all time favorite games, they are quite different from pretty much any other tactical rpg out there, that its hard to even put it into the category despite them being, well tactical. It's such a unique system that only two other games have systems even similar to it, and they aren't even all that close, those being Yugioh: The Falsebound Kingdom, and kinda sorta... Soul Nomad? But even then its not really. You're gonna get a very unique experience when you play some Ogre Battle.

They aren't the most balanced games ever, but hey, theres alot there to bite into.

I myself need to really get into Tactics Ogre, but its really hard for me to do so because they don't play remotely like Ogre Battle, and since they semi share stuff, it irks me on a weird level to the point where I don't really want to give them a fair shot, despite the fact that I'd probably like them?

Edited June 3, 2016 by Jedi

[Harvey]

Debatable. The early Ultima games predate FE1 and have all the elements of a tactical RPG and even then they were games before that. The series didn't become prolific in Japan until FE1, yes, but that wasn't the start of the genre.

Besides that, why must games of a certain genre rigidly conform to the tenets of its predecessors? Yes, there are certain aspects that define it as part of that genre, but if everything was to be modeled after this specific game, that would just mean there would be no progress or evolution, and that's a bad thing. I don't really see how other series devalue the points of tactical RPGs.

The games you mention, FFT and Ogre don't have character development which is needed since well, you're using units that aren't soul less. So it managed to evolve gameplay wise but it didn't do anything else and that was lousy as well. FFT being poorly translated at first and yet had a horrible story simply means that there's no reason to call it a TRPG but rather a strategy game. Your role in this game is dumb and bland unlike FE where atleast its passable.

Anyways back on topic, I wonder just how Sakura Wars is compared to FE....I hear that its the most demanded game to bring in the west.

[Acacia Sgt]

Much as I would like to make a statement for Super Robot Wars, I am well aware that its limited market to just East Asia due to liscencing issues preventing localization elsewhere would be considered a hindrance. FE has long stopped being Japan-only...

They're great games regardless, in my opinion.

[Jedi]

Anyways back on topic, I wonder just how Sakura Wars is compared to FE....I hear that its the most demanded game to bring in the west.

Sakura Wars (Or Sakura Taisen) has tactical Mecha sections inbetween various Visual Novel like segments. The 5th game was localized, but the first 4 were not, despite selling really well on Sega's hardware over there (They likely thought they were too anime for the west at the time).

The relations you build in the VN segments help in the Mecha segments with your main character working with the various lady pilots you have as well. The ones you build more affection with give you certain advantages and bonuses.

I don't think its high on lists to be localized, by a number of people, maybe more so now that Project X Zone has granted awareness for the franchise here in the west? But eh, 5 didn't do so hot and it was on the PS2 and Wii, 2 of the best selling consoles ever.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Jedi

[Harvey]

Oh well....guess nothing beats Fire Emblem to me then.

[Mage Knight 404]

Someone has to stand up and speak out for the unsung elephant in the room, Yggdra Union!

...

... Yggdra Union totally counts, right?

[Tangerine]

The games you mention, FFT and Ogre don't have character development which is needed since well, you're using units that aren't soul less. So it managed to evolve gameplay wise but it didn't do anything else and that was lousy as well. FFT being poorly translated at first and yet had a horrible story simply means that there's no reason to call it a TRPG but rather a strategy game. Your role in this game is dumb and bland unlike FE where atleast its passable.

Anyways back on topic, I wonder just how Sakura Wars is compared to FE....I hear that its the most demanded game to bring in the west.

>Tactics Ogre has no character development.

You have admittedly -never played the game- and you're making ridiculous statements about it, yet you wonder why so many people are responding negatively lol. TO's (and the whole Ogre saga's) story, writing and character development is leagues beyond any FE game.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Tangerine

[Baldrick]

When I play other TRPGs, I feel bored cause they are either less complex or don't implement enough mechanics that FE does.

What?

FE's MO is that it's mechanically very simple, but very punishing if you don't play well.

Someone has to stand up and speak out for the unsung elephant in the room, Yggdra Union!

...

... Yggdra Union totally counts, right?

Yeah. Even though it has phase-based combat, between how battles work, how unions work and everything about the card system, there's a lot more to it.

Though there's only one other SRPG in that series and I think it's more or less the same.

[eclipse]

Yeah. Even though it has phase-based combat, between how battles work, how unions work and everything about the card system, there's a lot more to it.

Though there's only one other SRPG in that series and I think it's more or less the same.

Two. Knights in the Nightmare is. . .different, and Gungnir is absolutely nothing like Yggdra Union.

The games you mention, FFT and Ogre don't have character development which is needed since well, you're using units that aren't soul less. So it managed to evolve gameplay wise but it didn't do anything else and that was lousy as well. FFT being poorly translated at first and yet had a horrible story simply means that there's no reason to call it a TRPG but rather a strategy game. Your role in this game is dumb and bland unlike FE where atleast its passable.

Look, I'm not FFT's biggest fan. But there IS character development, which is pretty apparent in the first two chapters. Without character development, there would be no game, because Delita would be. . .well, not doing what he was in FFT.

Edited June 4, 2016 by eclipse

[Baldrick]

I was thinking of Blaze Union, I'd never even heard of those games. :X

[eclipse]

Dept. Heaven was supposed to have nine games. Riviera, Yggdra Union, Knights in the Nightmare, and Gungnir are four of them. Of them, Riviera (and maybe Knights in the Nightmare) aren't SRPGs. However, I'd recommend Knights in the Nightmare for bullet hell fans, and Gungnir only for die-hard SRPG fans. They can get complicated at times.

[Harvey]

>Tactics Ogre has no character development.

You have admittedly -never played the game- and you're making ridiculous statements about it, yet you wonder why so many people are responding negatively lol. TO's (and the whole Ogre saga's) story, writing and character development is leagues beyond any FE game.

Fine so I goofed up when saying Tactics Ogre has no character development and yeah, I guess I need to play it to see what I missed. But you don't do any character interactions in the game do you? Like how FE does it and is known to do it?

But just why do you love FE if at all you claim that TO and FFT are miles better than FE games in terms of the tactical and story department? The fact that its simple to play or the fact that you know that there will never be games like TO and FFT and just accept FE the way it is even now?

Fates selling huge doesn't surprise you because you claim that it can't compete against FFT sales. You realize that Fates sold 1.84 million units before even releasing it in Europe right? Heck, it sold 400,000 units in just three days. How much did FFT sell in three days? The mobile port sold poorly as well as the PSP remake comparing it to the original game yet somehow, this isn't shocking.

[Mage Knight 404]

But just why do you love FE if at all you claim that TO and FFT are miles better than FE games in terms of the tactical and story department? The fact that its simple to play or the fact that you know that there will never be games like TO and FFT and just accept FE the way it is even now?

What, are you saying people can't choose to like one particular series if another they find is better or worse than it? Can we not simply prefer FFT to FE just because the one game has x or y that the other doesn't? We can like a game and find it better than another and still be a big supporter of the lesser. I love Yggdra Union way more than half of the FE franchise, but the game and its prequel and spin-off(and all Dept. Heaven games really) are niche as hell. That doesn't stop me from being a fan of both. I just don't get your logic, son.

[Tangerine]

Fine so I goofed up when saying Tactics Ogre has no character development and yeah, I guess I need to play it to see what I missed. But you don't do any character interactions in the game do you? Like how FE does it and is known to do it?

But just why do you love FE if at all you claim that TO and FFT are miles better than FE games in terms of the tactical and story department? The fact that its simple to play or the fact that you know that there will never be games like TO and FFT and just accept FE the way it is even now?

Fates selling huge doesn't surprise you because you claim that it can't compete against FFT sales. You realize that Fates sold 1.84 million units before even releasing it in Europe right? Heck, it sold 400,000 units in just three days. How much did FFT sell in three days? The mobile port sold poorly as well as the PSP remake comparing it to the original game yet somehow, this isn't shocking.

You can like a game series and not think it did everything better than every other series lol.

Again, Fates' sales aren't real for the argument you're trying to push - they're good for the series, but say nothing about mainstream value. A lot of people bought both games, and that counts as two sales towards Fates' total because they aren't being tracked separately as they should be. If Fates sells 2.4 million, it is NOT equal to FFT selling 2.4 million.

As ridiculous as it is to expect a remake (Tip: Shadow Dragon didn't sell as well as FE1 either, despite being on a platform with twice the userbase) to sell as much as the original without a significant time gap between releases, PSP game sales in particular don't mean anything. That platform was plagued by piracy, the PSP has among the worst hardware:software sales ratio of any major console or handheld release because of it. I don't know why you're so hung up on the idea that sales dictate which game is better, but at least take into account all factors.

WotL isn't even a real remake, more like an expansion pack if FFT were released today.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Tangerine

[Ϲharlie]

WotL isn't even a real remake, more like an expansion pack if FFT were released today.

And, incidentally, it isn't even a good one.

[eclipse]

And, incidentally, it isn't even a good one.

I played both, and enjoyed WotL far more than the original. Probably because of the extras that were included.

[Soledai]

Since Union games came up, I want to give a little nod to Gloria Union for having the most op player card in any of the games, not named Gravity Chaos. That being Tidal Wave.

And for letting you be able to switch equipment too.