ace attorney Best and Worst Ace Attorney Case ever made

[Samias]

*snip*

IMO I felt the same way about Khura'in in the beginning as you did, but it got better. Case 1 was way too over the top with the lawyer hate boner. I hated the crowd chatter and how Payne especially was a disgusting human being! That was way too much. The fact Albhi is 9 years old makes it that much worse. Case 1 is probably the weakest case of the game and soured me on the premise of Khura'in, but it got so much more enjoyable for case 3.

[Thane]

IMO I felt the same way about Khura'in in the beginning as you did, but it got better. Case 1 was way too over the top with the lawyer hate boner. I hated the crowd chatter and how Payne especially was a disgusting human being! That was way too much. The fact Albhi is 9 years old makes it that much worse. Case 1 is probably the weakest case of the game and soured me on the premise of Khura'in, but it got so much more enjoyable for case 3.

We'll see about that, but so far I'm really not liking 6-3. The problem with Khura'in is also that not only does it feel far removed from where the action should take place, but it's also a nonsensical, made up location where the writers can insert whatever they feel is necessary to move the plot along, regardless of how little sense it makes or how natural it feels. That's not a good sign for a place like this. It's also a victim of both Yamazaki's way of bloating the cast and tendency to try and have a grand plot, which usually falls flat. Of course, it's too early to say if it'll crash and burn like the "dark age of the law" did, but I'm not holding my breath here.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Thane

[blah the Prussian]

Okay, I will say this: I'm almost done with case 3 and

Rayfa's character development is taking too long. Like, she started out funny, but now it's a bit annoying, and she's had enough character development worthy stuff happen to her that I'm starting to wish it would hurry up and happen already.

[MCProductions]

Just finished AA6, and god damn the game pulls a 180 at the last case. I can honestly say 6-5 is my favorite post original trilogy case, even if 6-1 thru 6-4 are all horrible cases that made me miss PLvsPW somehow.

I still consider Khurain the most unwholesome group of individuals in the series, but at least I like Rayfa somewhat. That's one individual out of an entire kingdom tho, so that's a flop of writing on it's part, seeing as we're SUPPOSED to sympathize with them.

[spoiler=MAJOR AA6 spoilers]That said, AA7 has a significant chance to change my mind on it. 6-5, as much as I liked it tho, really makes me wonder why this wasn't Apollo Justice 2. Like, damn, this is Apollo's game with Phoenix in the title, and Apollo gets more character development in 6-5 alone than he did in AA4 and 5 combined. Here's to Justice Law Offices, and Nahyuta becoming more of an Edgeworth clone than he already was. Hell, on the Nahyuta subject, how he was handled is one of two reasons I can't consider this on par with the original trilogy favorite cases. His backstory is damn near 1-1 with Edgeworth's, which considering Edgeworth himself appears in this game is very damn glaring. We also have how blatantly evil the main antagonist actually is, which kinda annoyed me tbh.

[Michelaar]

Just finished AA6, and god damn the game pulls a 180 at the last case. I can honestly say 6-5 is my favorite post original trilogy case, even if 6-1 thru 6-4 are all horrible cases that made me miss PLvsPW somehow.

I still consider Khurain the most unwholesome group of individuals in the series, but at least I like Rayfa somewhat. That's one individual out of an entire kingdom tho, so that's a flop of writing on it's part, seeing as we're SUPPOSED to sympathize with them.

[spoiler=MAJOR AA6 spoilers]That said, AA7 has a significant chance to change my mind on it. 6-5, as much as I liked it tho, really makes me wonder why this wasn't Apollo Justice 2. Like, damn, this is Apollo's game with Phoenix in the title, and Apollo gets more character development in 6-5 alone than he did in AA4 and 5 combined. Here's to Justice Law Offices, and Nahyuta becoming more of an Edgeworth clone than he already was. Hell, on the Nahyuta subject, how he was handled is one of two reasons I can't consider this on par with the original trilogy favorite cases. His backstory is damn near 1-1 with Edgeworth's, which considering Edgeworth himself appears in this game is very damn glaring. We also have how blatantly evil the main antagonist actually is, which kinda annoyed me tbh.

More final villains were just pure evil. Pretty much every one of them

[blah the Prussian]

You didn't like 6-2? Can I ask why?

[MCProductions]

You didn't like 6-2? Can I ask why?

6-2 was the best of them barring the final, but it was also the blandest for me. I honestly forgot all about it when I reached the ending credits and BOOM, here's some characters from that case I completely forgot about. Also, it's not fair to be this way, but 2-3 memories prevent me from truthfully enjoying any future case involving magicians.

More final villains were just pure evil. Pretty much every one of them

Alba, Dahlia Hawthrone, and Kristoph Gavin were pure evil I admit, but they usually aren't so blatantly evil your an idiot if you think anyone else could be the killer. Take one look at Gar'an's prosecutor outfit and tell me with a straight face she isn't the villain.

[blah the Prussian]

Well, I can somewhat understand that; personal preference and the like. I had some problems with Case 3, but overall I'm willing to paint it warts and all, to take a page from Oliver Cromwell's book.

[Thane]

[spoiler=My scattered thoughts on 6-3]What...what was that? How do you go from the fantastic 6-2 to a case that's worse than Turnabout Big Top?! This might be my least favorite case in the entire series barring 5-5! Where do I even begin?

First of all, holy crap was it too long, and even by the beginning of the second act I had forgotten everything that happened in the first due to how irrelevant and dreary it was. You had that obnoxious amnesiac guy making up fake testimonies on the spot, changing them dramatically every time even when they didn't make sense from the get-go - how did that incompetent prosecutor think it was a good idea to bring him in?

Secondly, the entire premise is ludicrous and only made possible due to some serious asspulls. Phoenix is passed out an entire day because his back hurt? Then, even though he loses and is found guilt in the first act - I cannot for the life of me remember how that even happened - he's free to strolll around and investigate a second murder. Also, Maya is for some reason allowed to be by his side, something that's dismissed with a shrug - in a country with a Yamazaki hate boner for lawyers.

Thirdly, are we supposed to like Rayfa? She struts around wishing death upon people and being rude. She's far worse than Franzika ever was, and even though her inevitable character development is coming soon, I don't think I'll ever like her, nor should Phoenix or Maya since she's done nothing but to tell them to literally go die.

Fourthly, are we supposed to feel intimidated by Sadmadhi, or like him for that matter? He repeats the same lines over and over again and, like the entire kingdom filled with hypocrites and assholes, preaches death to innocents. What's with this game and making it seem like that's a normal thing to do? This is not something that adds pressure on Phoenix and to an extent the player, this is something that makes all of Khura'in unlikeable.

Fifthly, oh my god, Apollo is the adopted son of Dhurke? Just...why? When I said they had no idea where they wanted to take his character, I had no idea it would be THIS bad! I'll withhold judgement for now until the end of the game, just in case it ends up being executed better than I think, but I really, really don't like where this is going.

Sixthly, did I mention how this kingdom is filled to the brim with assholes and hypocrites? How are we supposed to care about anything that's going on in that country when the bloody high priest and his wife are in cahoots of pinning two deaths on Maya?

Seventhly, this case had no charm, humor or pacing to speak of. It was just a series of events that unfolded, and Phoenix showed none of his earlier character growth; he just wandered around aimlessly, bluffing his way through almost every single question he got. What the hell?

I'm just shocked by the difference in quality between these two cases. I knew Khura'in was nothing but trouble, but I really didn't think it would ruin the game to this extent - both cases in that place have been absolutely awful.

Edit: you play as Athena in 6-4...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Edited September 18, 2016 by Thane

[blah the Prussian]

Dude, Franziska physically assaulted the Judge in court, and had her development reversed in Bridge to the Turnabout. Rayfa is essentially wanting the execution of someone she believes to be a killer, and the DC act is something that everyone believes. There's also the fact that she's an impressionable 14 year old, while Franziska is a fully functioning adult. I agree that she can get annoying, and her character development took too long(and that's with my bias towards royalty) but Franziska is quite frankly worse.

Edit: And to add to this, Rayfa pre development clearly expresses concern for her people by wanting to lower a bounty paid for by tax dollars. Franziska, meanwhile, for an entire game, takes joy in lowering Gumshoe's salary and whipping him. Rayfa>Franziska.

Edited September 18, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[solrocknroll]

so do you just have this quota where you have to whine about Athena in every post or is that something you do on your own

Athena is barely in this game at all, the fact that you feel the need to complain that her fans got even the slightest of bones thrown their way is asinine. Turnabout Storyteller is very disconnected because it was obviously made with Blackquill and Athena fans in mind before anyone else. Apollo and Phoenix get plenty to do in this game.

[Samias]

6-4 is simply the filler case in this game.

It's pretty short and honestly I really liked Simon in this despite how the case overall is disconnected from the rest of the game. Sorta. It does share some of the overarching themes. Athena herself is still pretty cringeworthy... She absolutely takes a backseat to Simon and the witnesses in the stand, who otherwise have fantastic banter.

My feelings on 6-3 are more positive. I don't actually think Maya on the defense is that unusual though. Even in real life you actually would be sitting with your lawyer in a court of law, just detained by officers. Lest we forget Maggey Byrd also played assistant to PW in JFA despite being indicted for murder.

[Thane]

Dude, Franziska physically assaulted the Judge in court, and had her development reversed in Bridge to the Turnabout. Rayfa is essentially wanting the execution of someone she believes to be a killer, and the DC act is something that everyone believes. There's also the fact that she's an impressionable 14 year old, while Franziska is a fully functioning adult. I agree that she can get annoying, and her character development took too long(and that's with my bias towards royalty) but Franziska is quite frankly worse.

Edit: And to add to this, Rayfa pre development clearly expresses concern for her people by wanting to lower a bounty paid for by tax dollars. Franziska, meanwhile, for an entire game, takes joy in lowering Gumshoe's salary and whipping him. Rayfa>Franziska.

I hold no love for Franziska, and her lack of character development in Justice for All is clear to see for everyone due to the executive meddling, but Rayfa wishes death upon people and laughs in their faces over the fact that they're going to die. Her caring about her people doesn't change that fact, and it makes her a frankly abhorrent person.

Did you agree with the rest of what I wrote, by the way, since you singled this one out, or was it just the most interesting thing to reply to? I was shocked by just how bad 6-3 was, and now there's a filler case with Athena. This game better have a damn good finale...

Edited September 18, 2016 by Thane

[Refa]

Isn't Franziska like 18 in JFA? That's not nearly old enough to be a fully functioning adult no matter how much of a genius you are or how much you get paid.

[Samias]

Honestly Nahyuta is basically Edgeworth's backstory with Franziska's personality with a dash of "holier than thou". It's easy to see why a lot of people don't like him that much when he just keeps repeating the same thing over and over.

[spoiler=Case 6-4]Case 6-4 is actually probably his best case to see him crack a bit. Simon's got his number there and the witness is decidedly not on Nahyuta's side. Nahyuta himself has some hilarious lines too which paint him slightly less one-dimensional than Franziska. But with all that said and done he's only slightly more likeable than Franziska to me. Franziska is easily the most irritating prosecutor with how she just gets away with literally assaulting everyone in the courtroom... And I find Foolish Fool *insert more fools foolishly (x) here* more irritating of a quirk than "putrid (x)" or "let it go, and move on" where Nahyuta actually offers outs to the defense team instead of condemning them to the DC Act like Rayfa does for so much of the game.

On that note both the Khura'in judge and especially Japanifornia judge are top notch in this game! The Judge actually has a lot of heart in this game compared to others. The Khura'in judge seems to warm up to the Japanifornia law process as well, moreso than anyone else who isn't directly defended by Wright and co.

[Sasori]

I just finished 6-4 and it was...not very good sadly. It wasn't awful, but the case had a lot going against it.

The case had a nice little twist and it was good to see Blackquill again, but other then that I was not really feeling it. The setting did't click with me since the Japanese joke thing just wasn't funny to me. Still the witnesses where decent enough and the case is so short that it did't overstay its welcome.

The thing that brings this case down for me however is that Athena came across as terribly incompetent. I know she had no time to prepare so I'll let those parts slide, but there where several cases where Blackquill essentially had to take over or where Athena did not point the correct thing out untill being told not to mess around. She managed to be a fine layyer in case 3 of dual destinies so her struggling so much felt a little off.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sasori

[Water Mage]

[spoiler=My scattered thoughts on 6-3]What...what was that? How do you go from the fantastic 6-2 to a case that's worse than Turnabout Big Top?! This might be my least favorite case in the entire series barring 5-5! Where do I even begin?

First of all, holy crap was it too long, and even by the beginning of the second act I had forgotten everything that happened in the first due to how irrelevant and dreary it was. You had that obnoxious amnesiac guy making up fake testimonies on the spot, changing them dramatically every time even when they didn't make sense from the get-go - how did that incompetent prosecutor think it was a good idea to bring him in?

Secondly, the entire premise is ludicrous and only made possible due to some serious asspulls. Phoenix is passed out an entire day because his back hurt? Then, even though he loses and is found guilt in the first act - I cannot for the life of me remember how that even happened - he's free to strolll around and investigate a second murder. Also, Maya is for some reason allowed to be by his side, something that's dismissed with a shrug - in a country with a Yamazaki hate boner for lawyers.

Thirdly, are we supposed to like Rayfa? She struts around wishing death upon people and being rude. She's far worse than Franzika ever was, and even though her inevitable character development is coming soon, I don't think I'll ever like her, nor should Phoenix or Maya since she's done nothing but to tell them to literally go die.

Fourthly, are we supposed to feel intimidated by Sadmadhi, or like him for that matter? He repeats the same lines over and over again and, like the entire kingdom filled with hypocrites and assholes, preaches death to innocents. What's with this game and making it seem like that's a normal thing to do? This is not something that adds pressure on Phoenix and to an extent the player, this is something that makes all of Khura'in unlikeable.

Fifthly, oh my god, Apollo is the adopted son of Dhurke? Just...why? When I said they had no idea where they wanted to take his character, I had no idea it would be THIS bad! I'll withhold judgement for now until the end of the game, just in case it ends up being executed better than I think, but I really, really don't like where this is going.

Sixthly, did I mention how this kingdom is filled to the brim with assholes and hypocrites? How are we supposed to care about anything that's going on in that country when the bloody high priest and his wife are in cahoots of pinning two deaths on Maya?

Seventhly, this case had no charm, humor or pacing to speak of. It was just a series of events that unfolded, and Phoenix showed none of his earlier character growth; he just wandered around aimlessly, bluffing his way through almost every single question he got. What the hell?

I'm just shocked by the difference in quality between these two cases. I knew Khura'in was nothing but trouble, but I really didn't think it would ruin the game to this extent - both cases in that place have been absolutely awful.

Edit: you play as Athena in 6-4...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm not sure if agree with you regarding 6-3.

The whole point if this case was to show how fucked up Khura'in law system is.

The high priest and his wife wouldn't do any of that if it wasn't for the DCA. It's also worth noting that the high priest's reason to protect his was to protect his wife who was pregnant.

It's true that he tried to get Maya accused, but considering that he was trying to protect his pregnant wife, it doesn't justify, but make his actions understandable.

And about Rayfa, remember that she grew up being told that lawyers are evil and that her divinations are never wrong.

Her opinion isn't going to change so quickly just because she met one good lawyer.

And the fact the she didn't obstruct Phoenix's investigation and even helped him investigate is already impressive.

[Rapier]

this is what an Ace Attorney case should be like. No relying on awful gimmicks or a country that for some reasons hate lawyers and solve all of their legal problems by the help of a 14-year-old girl in a mini skirt's magical powers.

No tricks, no gimmicks... only the truth. This case is the real deal.

Just finished case 3 and, holy shit, this is easily one of the best AAs I've played, as far as I've proggressed. I'm only having issues with case 4 because it looks like the typical filler case that had to be put because they needed something to cover that spot.

[Ema Skye]

This game better have a damn good finale...

The finale is widely regarded as one of the series' best cases.

But with how much you dislike Khurain, and especially case 3, you're likely going to hate it.

[Bluedoom]

6-2 was the best of them barring the final, but it was also the blandest for me. I honestly forgot all about it when I reached the ending credits and BOOM, here's some characters from that case I completely forgot about. Also, it's not fair to be this way, but 2-3 memories prevent me from truthfully enjoying any future case involving magicians.

Alba, Dahlia Hawthrone, and Kristoph Gavin were pure evil I admit, but they usually aren't so blatantly evil your an idiot if you think anyone else could be the killer. Take one look at Gar'an's prosecutor outfit and tell me with a straight face she isn't the villain.

What about Von Karma? He clearly looked blatantly evil. I think only Engarde and Keyes are the villains who don't look like obvious villains at the start.

[MCProductions]

What about Von Karma? He clearly looked blatantly evil. I think only Engarde and Keyes are the villains who don't look like obvious villains at the start.

Von Karma had a different type of evil look to him imo. He looked like an asshole yes, but he looked at least like a law abiding asshole despite not being a law abiding asshole. He was just an asshole. Alba eventually looked pretty evil I admit, but that was only after his first breakdown. Dahlia Hawthorne intentionally looked the exact opposite of what she actually was, and hell, even the fucking Phantom from AA5 actually looked like a human being instead of the anime styled villain Gar'an looks like. I adore case 6-5, don't get me wrong, but I REALLY dislike Gar'an's prosecutor outfit and blatantly evil it looks

Edited September 19, 2016 by MCProductions

[blah the Prussian]

I hold no love for Franziska, and her lack of character development in Justice for All is clear to see for everyone due to the executive meddling, but Rayfa wishes death upon people and laughs in their faces over the fact that they're going to die. Her caring about her people doesn't change that fact, and it makes her a frankly abhorrent person.

Did you agree with the rest of what I wrote, by the way, since you singled this one out, or was it just the most interesting thing to reply to? I was shocked by just how bad 6-3 was, and now there's a filler case with Athena. This game better have a damn good finale...

If I could use Death of the Author for a bit, she doesn't really understand what she's saying; the meaning of death. If she actually saw them on the chopping block...

Essentially, wishing death on someone is a lot better than constantly assaulting people, abusing specific people, and getting away with it consistently. By the end of Case 3 Rayfa has already shown remorse for her actions and is doubting how just Khu'rain actually is. That is leagues more character development than Franziska gets in the entirety of JFA. She starts out better than Franziska, and ends better, too. And speaking of hateboners, Franziska has arguably the most annoying one in the series.

I can see why you think the rest of the things that you think, even if I don't agree with all of them. I will say that I definitely agree that case 3 takes too long. However, I think that the idea that Rayfa is worse than Franziska is absurd.

Edited September 19, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Thane]

I'm not sure if agree with you regarding 6-3.

The whole point if this case was to show how fucked up Khura'in law system is.

The high priest and his wife wouldn't do any of that if it wasn't for the DCA. It's also worth noting that the high priest's reason to protect his was to protect his wife who was pregnant.

It's true that he tried to get Maya accused, but considering that he was trying to protect his pregnant wife, it doesn't justify, but make his actions understandable.

And about Rayfa, remember that she grew up being told that lawyers are evil and that her divinations are never wrong.

Her opinion isn't going to change so quickly just because she met one good lawyer.

And the fact the she didn't obstruct Phoenix's investigation and even helped him investigate is already impressive.

Here's the thing though: if I'm constantly bored, annoyed and apathetic towards anything that happens in Khura'in and just want it to be over, then I won't care about how messed up their made up, nonsensical and unrealistic legal system is. The fact remains that it was a case completely without humor, charm or pacing - this DC act is a sign of Yamazaki's shoddy way of always including a grandiose plot which tends to make little to no sense upon any form of scrutiny.

It's still a drastic and frankly downright assholish thing to do, especially since his wife just went with the flow - the writers seemed to want me to sympathize with these people, or else they wouldn't have had that "touching" parting. Phoenix and Maya should've been absolutely livid.

Her being a naïve, sheltered brat who wishes death upon people remains, again, unchanged. Keep in mind I absolutely loathe the idea that everyone in that country has a hate boner for lawyers as if they were a different species, or Siths, or something.

No tricks, no gimmicks... only the truth. This case is the real deal.

Just finished case 3 and, holy shit, this is easily one of the best AAs I've played, as far as I've proggressed. I'm only having issues with case 4 because it looks like the typical filler case that had to be put because they needed something to cover that spot.

Ziiiiing!

Wait, you liked 6-3? Can you explain what you enjoyed? It's my second least liked case after 5-5, beating even 2-3 in awfulness.

The finale is widely regarded as one of the series' best cases.

But with how much you dislike Khurain, and especially case 3, you're likely going to hate it.

People widely regarded Dual Destinies as good in the beginning as well, so I'll wait and see.

Welp, that's not very reassuring. I disliked the idea before the game came out and now that I see how it has ruined 6-1 and 6-3 in spite of 6-2's awesomeness, I'm mourning what could've been.

That seems to be a running theme in the Japanese games I've played recently. Oh well, this game isn't Fates, at least.

If I could use Death of the Author for a bit, she doesn't really understand what she's saying; the meaning of death. If she actually saw them on the chopping block...

Essentially, wishing death on someone is a lot better than constantly assaulting people, abusing specific people, and getting away with it consistently. By the end of Case 3 Rayfa has already shown remorse for her actions and is doubting how just Khu'rain actually is. That is leagues more character development than Franziska gets in the entirety of JFA. She starts out better than Franziska, and ends better, too. And speaking of hateboners, Franziska has arguably the most annoying one in the series.

I can see why you think the rest of the things that you think, even if I don't agree with all of them. I will say that I definitely agree that case 3 takes too long. However, I think that the idea that Rayfa is worse than Franziska is absurd.

You make a good argument, perhaps I was just not seeing straight because of how thoroughly I disliked 6-3. However, I still very much dislike her, and like you've said, her character development is coming really, really late.

Oh yeah, wasn't there supposed to be a revolution in this game? Why did we go back to a Japanifornian restaurant? Ugh, Yamazaki you fool.

[Samias]

Oh yeah, wasn't there supposed to be a revolution in this game? Why did we go back to a Japanifornian restaurant? Ugh, Yamazaki you fool.

Yes, 6-4 bothers a lot of people for that reason. But then it ends up being a decent standalone despite having the least popular of Wright's attorneys on the case...

But 6-5's length is so long, I suppose this was meant to be a break before something like a 10+ hour grand finale. Though the timeframe of 6-4 squeezed between 6-3 and 6-5 is suspect... I kind of wish Nahyuta wasn't the prosecutor on the case despite him probably having some of his best comedy lines in this case. Because AA takes place in America, compared to Gyakuten Saiban's Japan, Nahyuta's jetlag must be insane. I maybe would have liked to see Klavier on a case since he only has had minor cameos since AA4. When everyone is so down on the typical angsty and cruel prosecutors, Klavier would be refreshing to see.

[blah the Prussian]

You make a good argument, perhaps I was just not seeing straight because of how thoroughly I disliked 6-3. However, I still very much dislike her, and like you've said, her character development is coming really, really late.

I'm reserving judgement on her until I see how she is in the last case. If she's had it reversed then I'll dislike her outright, which will be a shame. However if she legitimately has changed... it will be a case of a rough initial run, but pulling through in the end.