What do you guys think of Hana?

[BANRYU]

While I see your point, I'm not going to be able to actually play fates for over a week until I can finally get it (for reasons I don't feel comfortable explaining) so topics like this help ease the wait for it. Plus I like chatting online to people who are also interested in fire emblem.

Ahh no, that is a good point! I just always try to caution people about overthinking it as that's a pitfall that I myself tend to fall into too, haha ;;

But no, you make a good point.

Well if you like, then, some of my favorite BR units are Oboro (favorite character, good in terms of combat/design/personality), Saizo (possibly the best ninja IMO), Kagero (highest Str of the ninjas and pretty fast without being overkill like Kaze, but a bit squishy on the physical side), Takumi (really good esp if you get him Rend Heaven), Caden/Selkie, Azama (make him any physical class, preferably ASAP, and he will wreck), and Shiro (fun character and solid fighter).

[BANRYU]

EDIT: oops, accidental double-post .-. my bad

Edited November 4, 2016 by BANRYU

[Thor Odinson]

Hana's definitely a flawed character, but I think a lot of people do forget she's about Sakura's age or so, give or take. She's a brash kid that jumps to conclusions, but also feels very, idk how to describe it, genuine? Like I don't think she means to be a jerk so much as just a kid with no filter who will probably grow out of it. I don't think she's in the right of blaming avatar in their support, but I can also see her logic from a pov of a young teenager whose lord and best friend is basically her world. It's a reasonable portrayal, at any rate. And in most cases when someone points out to her that she's doing something hurtful she immediately apologizes for it. I think she just doesn't have the maturity yet to look closer at her actions, yet. Which is reasonable given her age.

I mean, I was her age once. I was a little shit who didn't really consider my actions very carefully either.

As a unit I never really used her so I can't comment.

[Rend Keaven]

The best Birthright units IMO are Oboro, Saizo, Kaden, Takumi, Ryoma, Hinoka and Azama. Their characters aren't perfect but they are very goo units although Azama takes a while before he becomes amazing. One trend with the characters in BR and CQ is that BR's units tend to be speedy, have good accuracy but terrible defenses and strength, while CQ it's vice versa.

[Dinar87]

The best Birthright units IMO are Oboro, Saizo, Kaden, Takumi, Ryoma, Hinoka and Azama. Their characters aren't perfect but they are very goo units although Azama takes a while before he becomes amazing. One trend with the characters in BR and CQ is that BR's units tend to be speedy, have good accuracy but terrible defenses and strength, while CQ it's vice versa.

I like the look of most of the ones you mentioned. My favorites would probably be either oboro or saizo. I've heard Ryoma is absolutely broken though and snaps birthright into two!

Another thing I'm wondering about is the future of fire emblem...what would you guys want to see from it? Sorry if this kind of question has been done before but I'd really like to know.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Dinar87

[Res]

I like the look of most of the ones you mentioned. My favorites would probably be either oboro or saizo. I've heard Ryoma is absolutely broken though and snaps birthright into two!

Another thing I'm wondering about is the future of fire emblem...what would you guys want to see from it? Sorry if this kind of question has been done before but I'd really like to know.

Takumi has been more powerful than Ryoma for me and my style of play; with both of them in your party, it's pretty hard to lose! (I also think his character is pretty perfect).

Gameplay-wise and supports-wise, I'd be happy to have more games like Fates. It's really mainly the completely illogical and idiotic story that detracts from the game.

[Dinar87]

Takumi has been more powerful than Ryoma for me and my style of play; with both of them in your party, it's pretty hard to lose! (I also think his character is pretty perfect).

Gameplay-wise and supports-wise, I'd be happy to have more games like Fates. It's really mainly the completely illogical and idiotic story that detracts from the game.

They sound really good! Point blank sounds like a great skill to have and apparently archers are amazing in fates so that makes them even better. I'm still a tiny bit disappointed that there's no dodge tanking since I always liked training up the weakest characters (which usually turned out to be thieves and healers) and watching them destroy everything in sight and dodge everything. If they don't have the best stats in the world anymore now that avoiding attacks is out of the question is it purely now about who has the best defense rather than being about both speed/luck and defense? Anyways, I hope the game play is good since I've heard great things about it.

Based on what I've seen I'd love another game like fates especially on the switch! Also, is the story really that bad? I've heard bad things about conquest's story and, since I've accidentally already spoiled the game for myself (reading comments sections) maybe if you want to, you could tell me why it's so horrible?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Dinar87

[Res]

They sound really good! Point blank sounds like a great skill to have and apparently archers are amazing in fates so that makes them even better. I'm still a tiny bit disappointed that there's no dodge tanking since I always liked training up the weakest characters (which usually turned out to be thieves and healers) and watching them destroy everything in sight and dodge everything. If they don't have the best stats in the world anymore now that avoiding attacks is out of the question is it purely now about who has the best defense rather than being about both speed/luck and defense? Anyways, I hope the game play is good since I've heard great things about it.

Based on what I've seen I'd love another game like fates especially on the switch! Also, is the story really that bad? I've heard bad things about conquest's story and, since I've accidentally already spoiled the game for myself (reading comments sections) maybe if you want to, you could tell me why it's so horrible?

The only problem with Point Blank is that you can only obtain it by completing the final map of Heirs of Fates, and that spoils pretty much everything story-wise (and character-wise, too!).

It's pretty bad. Birthright's story is pretty straight-forward and doesn't seem too bad the first time, although I notice more and more inconsistencies with each play-through. There's some pretty good dialogue, though - Chapter 18 was excellent.

The issues are: Characters behave oddly and inconsistently to try and obscure massive plot holes. A lot of things simply aren't explained, or get explained in 1-2 lines of dialogue that are easy to miss. Characters' motives make no sense. The kids have zero place within the story, and make for a very amusing storyline, depending on when you recruit them (for example, the first few chapters of Birthright are centered around finding Takumi and Ryoma ASAP. So you have this sense of urgency to find your missing brothers, but you can have Corrin marry and spawn two kids between chapters). My Castle has no place within the story. You don't really care about character deaths, unless you've played the other path first.

The supports, though, add a lot! There's quite a lot of characterization hidden within the supports, as well as valuable background information. Your perception of the game can really change dependent on the characters you choose to use.

[BANRYU]

Another thing I'm wondering about is the future of fire emblem...what would you guys want to see from it? Sorry if this kind of question has been done before but I'd really like to know.

First and foremost, better writing lol.

I liked the basic plot concept and characters of both Awakening and Fates, and Fates really brought a lot of beneficial gameplay changes to the series, but both were really disappointing in terms of how they actually executed their respective stories; they didn't come close to living up to their potential, IMO. Having better writing on the stories would really help my investment in future FE titles. Something on par with the Tellius games (esp RD, which has the best story of the western games to me) would be nice.

And on the more nitpicky side of things...

More GBA-esque battle animations.

Fates made a lot of improvements over Awakening with most units' ordinary battle animations, especially with most of the unmounted ground units... but magic-users' animations are still really boring and spell animations are way lackluster. I LOVED the animations from the GBA games, especially the magic-users and spells, and I'd like to see them use the technology at their disposal to make some more grandiose and jaw-dropping spell effects instead of the boring elemental projectiles. (Ragnarok, Ginnungagap, and Odin's Grimoire are some of the only tomes with effects I found suitably interesting.)

Aaaand more sensical institution of child units.

The breeding mechanics were a great feature in Awakening and Fates, but at the expense of plot, IMO.

I would vastly prefer to have an actual passage of time take place in order to make use of child units that makes SENSE for the plot than having the extra pool of units for the main game. Fates especially is egregious about this in terms of plot. I'd rather see it implemented like in GotHW and FE7/6 (actually, a remake of these two games packaged together that actually implements breeding mechanics would be awesome, IMO).

Edited November 4, 2016 by BANRYU

[Thane]

Another thing I'm wondering about is the future of fire emblem...what would you guys want to see from it? Sorry if this kind of question has been done before but I'd really like to know.

Better writing. Intelligent Systems are not and have never been particularly good writers, but Fates messed up pretty much everything that it set out to do and ruined what would make its story stick out.

I really don't mean to beat a dead horse, but given just how abysmal the story of Fates is, it's by far the area that needs the most attention and has the most room to grow for the next installment. However, Fates was their attempt at writing a compelling plot, so I don't know how they should solve whatever issue they have with basic storytelling. Maybe they could start with reducing the amount of player worship and anime clichés and go from there.

As an aside, I wonder if part of the reason as to why some story-driven/dialogue-heavy DLC hasn't come to the West yet is because of all the criticism against the writing and the second generation.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Thane

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm definitely not a fan of Hana.

Her support with Corrin makes her come off as a scumbag who can only empathize with people she has already decided to like. To some characters Hana says she just ''Doesn't mince words'' but I find she falls into a trap that a lot of those characters do. Characters who don't ''mince words'' often end up just being the biggest jerks around rather than merely blunt. I tend to hate those characters.

I'm not at all interested in Hana's performance so she can't really redeem herself on that front. I find personality more important than stats so even if Hana was a killer unit I'd much rather field the lovable but not very good Hinata.

But in the end Hana's stats don't really matter. Birthright is so easy that pretty much everyone will do.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Etrurian emperor

[Jedi]

Better writing. Intelligent Systems are not and have never been particularly good writers.

They've always been pretty good at writing for Paper Mario on the other hand, (aside from Sticker Star). Which is fairly amusing, because something that people always praise the Paper Mario games for is their witty writing.

[Lady Sansa]

bae

[BANRYU]

Better writing. Intelligent Systems are not and have never been particularly good writers, but Fates messed up pretty much everything that it set out to do and ruined what would make its story stick out.

IDK man I feel like there HAVE been games where the writing was good? Like back in the GBA/GCN era mainly... Maybe I'm a bit nostalgia blind but I thought FE7's story was passable at least (which is to say, better than Fates' and Awakenings'). And RD, I thought, had a downright epic and tragic and all-around solid story.

It seems like it might just be the writers themselves...?? :0 although maybe you're right and they're putting too much constraint on the writers by demanding the player worship aspects and whatnot... corporate pressures and whatnot...

[shadowofchaos]

So is dodge tanking gone in fates? That's a bit disappointing if true as it was extremely fun to do in earlier games.

I like her slightly as a character, but man she sucks as a unit.

Unless that hit rate is 0%, she is never dodge tanking.

80% of my restart causing deaths of low hit rates in Lunatic no-grind Birthright were "reliable" Duelist Blow hits of enemy hit rates of 15% or lower on Kazahana.

Edited November 5, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

A myrmidon with a high strength growth is always appreciated.

She was one of my best units in Birthright.

Idc for her low defense since supports can fix it.

Also I don't judge an unit just due to their supports. Only stats count for me!

[Thane]

They've always been pretty good at writing for Paper Mario on the other hand, (aside from Sticker Star). Which is fairly amusing, because something that people always praise the Paper Mario games for is their witty writing.

Since I haven't played those games, I'm afraid I can't comment. Perhaps it has to do with them not having the formula down after more than 25 years, perhaps Fire Emblem is tied down by red tape, or maybe different writers are being used, and the more skilled ones don't work on Fire Emblem or have even left the company.

I do think Intelligent Systems tend to write good character interactions; rarely anything stellar, but a lot of supports are solid.

IDK man I feel like there HAVE been games where the writing was good? Like back in the GBA/GCN era mainly... Maybe I'm a bit nostalgia blind but I thought FE7's story was passable at least (which is to say, better than Fates' and Awakenings'). And RD, I thought, had a downright epic and tragic and all-around solid story.

It seems like it might just be the writers themselves...?? :0 although maybe you're right and they're putting too much constraint on the writers by demanding the player worship aspects and whatnot... corporate pressures and whatnot...

I highly disagree. I find Blazing Sword to have the worst Fire Emblem story after Fates for a myriad of reasons, the biggest of which is Nergal.

Regardless of the amount of pressure on the writers, what is undeniable is that the story of Fates only exists and is moved forward due to plot contrivances, some of which could've been avoided easily even with the current format.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Thane

[DragonFlames]

Favourite female character by far, although Nyx is a tough contender for that spot, based on slightly superior supports and backstory alone.

She has an awesome design, great voice acting, has my favourite class as a base class, and her character is something I can relate to. I like that she says what she thinks and doesn't beat around the bush with her opinion of others.

Yes, the jumping to conclusions part can get a little irritating at times (Corrin supports), but I'm personally not that annoyed by it. There are worse characters out there (Selena, who turned from a mellow Tsundere in the Japanese version into a complete b*tch in the localisation, and Takumi, who's just a whiny douchebag in general) and she mellows out by the end of her supports anyways.

The only thing I am annoyed by is her utter devotion to Sakura, which plays into my biggest issue I have with the game (granted, its not as extreme as Effie's with Elise, but still...). And that's a can of worms I'd rather not open now.

Unit-wise, and I'm speaking from my own experiences here, she succeeds were Ryoma oh so utterly failed me many, many times. Aside from the lack of Raijinto and Dragon Vein access (the latter of which can be fixed, if you really want to and the former doesn't matter in the long run), she does everything Ryoma does, but better. At the time Ryoma joined my team, Hana had already outclassed him statwise, aside from her Defence, which wasn't too far behind the lobster anyways, in both Birthright and especially in Revelations. Ryoma has the terrible habit of missing almost every single hit he tries to get at the start, since for a Swordmaster, his Skill isn't really all that high. And this is where Hana delivered for me, cementing her as the best possible Swordmaster outside of children.

Oh yeah, and she also turns Kana into a freaking monster, which can be available to you as soon as Chapter 8 (in Birthright) or Chapter 9 (in Revelation). Out of any playthrough, Kana was always at her best with Hana as a mother.

[Dragonslayer9x]

To be fair, I find Hana's personality to match her stats and growths. She is the definition of a melee glass cannon.

She has a focus on keeping Sakura safe via destroying her enemies as quickly as possible (high str/spd/skl growths).

Her ideals of her fathers death in service causes her to throw caution to the wind (low hp/def growths, terrible def mod).

She tends to be a very brash and uncompromising character in her support conversations, I don't find her to be all that interesting.

As a unit she has three roles: One) Finishing blows (because she can't take retaliation fire, but she has high damage output so injured enemies are prime targets to her), Two) Mage hunter (she sorta has a res growth, and in my play through it was one of her redeeming factors. Plus most mages can't stand up to her str output), Three) Axe dodge tank (with a Sunrise Katana and her high spd growth she can hold out against axe users pretty well with her avoid rate, provided she can survive a stray hit or two. This is a high risk strategy that can go poorly very fast with an unlucky crit from a low hit chance berserker, IE: 5% hit and 10% crit... why did you die to that Hana... you had one job)

[Dinar87]

Why do 5% hit rates hit so often? Was it like this in previous games?

Anyways, so basically she's a damage dealer but not a damage taker. She can finish off enemies in one blow but other than that she's not great at taking hits. Does she have any other uses besides finishing off mages in one shot?

[eclipse]

Murdering things on player phase, thanks to Duelist's Blow. She can also reclass to Shrine Maiden for Miracle, though I wouldn't rely on that. While Renewal is a good skill, I don't think it works on Hana, because she dies in two hits, tops. If you want the ultimate glass cannon, have her pick up Life or Death - if she dies to a stiff breeze, she might as well amp her damage!

[Dinar87]

Murdering things on player phase, thanks to Duelist's Blow. She can also reclass to Shrine Maiden for Miracle, though I wouldn't rely on that. While Renewal is a good skill, I don't think it works on Hana, because she dies in two hits, tops. If you want the ultimate glass cannon, have her pick up Life or Death - if she dies to a stiff breeze, she might as well amp her damage!

Anyways, she sounds interesting to use...though what's the point if you can just use the pre-promotes to break the game in two as I've heard? Of course, they might of been exaggerating but I can't tell.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Dinar87

[eclipse]

Anyways, she sounds interesting to use...though what's the point if you can just use the pre-promotes to break the game in two as I've heard? Of course, they might of been exaggerating but I can't tell.

Try new things? Get support conversations? Check out different class/skill combinations? Fire Emblem can be played as (in)efficiently as you'd like! So even if there is a "better" way of doing things (use X character instead of Y), it doesn't mean you always have to do it.

[Funky Tim]

Favourite female character by far, although Nyx is a tough contender for that spot, based on slightly superior supports and backstory alone.

She has an awesome design, great voice acting, has my favourite class as a base class, and her character is something I can relate to. I like that she says what she thinks and doesn't beat around the bush with her opinion of others.

Yes, the jumping to conclusions part can get a little irritating at times (Corrin supports), but I'm personally not that annoyed by it. There are worse characters out there (Selena, who turned from a mellow Tsundere in the Japanese version into a complete b*tch in the localisation, and Takumi, who's just a whiny douchebag in general) and she mellows out by the end of her supports anyways.

The only thing I am annoyed by is her utter devotion to Sakura, which plays into my biggest issue I have with the game (granted, its not as extreme as Effie's with Elise, but still...). And that's a can of worms I'd rather not open now.

Unit-wise, and I'm speaking from my own experiences here, she succeeds were Ryoma oh so utterly failed me many, many times. Aside from the lack of Raijinto and Dragon Vein access (the latter of which can be fixed, if you really want to and the former doesn't matter in the long run), she does everything Ryoma does, but better. At the time Ryoma joined my team, Hana had already outclassed him statwise, aside from her Defence, which wasn't too far behind the lobster anyways, in both Birthright and especially in Revelations. Ryoma has the terrible habit of missing almost every single hit he tries to get at the start, since for a Swordmaster, his Skill isn't really all that high. And this is where Hana delivered for me, cementing her as the best possible Swordmaster outside of children.

Oh yeah, and she also turns Kana into a freaking monster, which can be available to you as soon as Chapter 8 (in Birthright) or Chapter 9 (in Revelation). Out of any playthrough, Kana was always at her best with Hana as a mother.

How?

[Dinar87]

Try new things? Get support conversations? Check out different class/skill combinations? Fire Emblem can be played as (in)efficiently as you'd like! So even if there is a "better" way of doing things (use X character instead of Y), it doesn't mean you always have to do it.

I guess that's true. IS seems to be prioritizing player choice in their latest games.