Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[mcsilas]

26 minutes ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

They really dropped the ball on Rheinhardt (Olwen too, I guess). In what world is it a good idea to give phenomenal nuking capabilities, the longest range + movement, decent defenses and irrelevant speed stats on a blue unit in a red filled roster. It blows my mind they think he is a well-designed unit (Skill Inheritance was on the horizon as well, so it double-baffles me)

@mcsilas Depeding on the amount of feathers you get and your future plans (I have planned ahead on what I want to achieve and, with my current feather income, will be able to get that stuff at an acceptable pace) it doesn't have to be a bad investment, even if you do get a +Att Rheinhardt in the future. Merging is a thing (now even transmits all skills, so it's really not that bad either way) and you'll still get use out of him regardless of boon/bane. If you have no other priorities, go for it.

Yeah I'm gonna grind a bit more SP on Reinhardt anyway so I can use Dire Thunder straight away if/when I promote him.

Right now Sharena takes precedence since bonus unit and all.

Then I have enough feathers for 2 more promotions (1 of them probably a +Spd Tharja, the other I'm thinking of is a +Atk/-Def Nino but she's 3 star at the moment so that needs 2,200 feathers). That or an Eirika with +Spd/-Def, but I'm not exactly sure what the best nature for her is yet.

I'll see how Sharena goes though as the blue unit first. I've got an Ursula I've been using before Reinhardt anyway if I need a cavalry blue tome user (but she needs Gunter support). 

Speaking of, the Gunter bonus unit was really good for me. Got my highest score of 4,483 thanks to the Arena changes and currently ranked 48,041. Had my most defense teams this week as well, with 3 using an Able/Gunter/Ursula/Frederick team. Not bad for no 5 stars in a Defense team,

[Othin]

All this Reinhardt talk is making me tempted to upgrade my 4* one when I get enough feathers. I want to save them for GHB characters, though, so it could be a while.

Still no defense wins, and just got 4,713 points with one death at the end. Rank 16,554: bleh, that's only 4k feathers for the week at this rate.

[Clogon]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

EDIT: Really, I have no idea why wiki puts him only at A+. He's hard walled by Julia, Nino, and Hector, but that hardly matters when he erases 95% of the game's units without support and without risk of counterattack.

My Reinhardt disagrees with this statement:

Edited April 16, 2017 by Clogon

[Okigen]

Xander will be guaranteed to have 2 weeks as a bonus character in May, so I think that is a good time to build a cavalry team since I already have Reinhardt, Olwen and Spring Xander. 

I'm not very fond of Horse Emblem though. Playing a team who can oneshot everything sounds pretty boring.

[Clogon]

They seriously need better mage counters. :(

Dire and -Blade Tomes delete way too many units at little to no risk. Give them Windsweep and they have even less risk!

 

I hope Alm becomes a 4 star unit. >.< I am too broke from spending $400 to get a single Bunny Camilla rolling only Greens.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Clogon

[Skids]

Going to love the new arena bonus teams this week.  Recently finish my Awakening team on skill inheritance and have a LV40 5* Cherche ready to go.  Plus with two defense wins so far after putting Cherche as the lead character.  I think I'll do quite well.

[Roflolxp54]

Next season bonus heroes starting 4/18:

 

[Okigen]

4 minutes ago, Clogon said:

They seriously need better mage counters. :(

Dire and -Blade Tomes delete way too many units at little to no risk. Give them Windsweep and they have even less risk!

 

I hope Alm becomes a 4 star unit. >.< I am too broke from spending $400 to get a single Bunny Camilla rolling only Greens.

I rolled her right in the first try, but never used her due to low bst. Didn't know that bst doesn't matter anymore, but too late to train her now >.< Spring Xander is a pain in the a** to use, it seems his only function in my team is to reposition the everyone using that 3 moves and swap (and he did tank HECTOR once). 

I think they will definitely introduce more mage counters when since the problem of those buffs is becoming too obvious. A weapon that can convert enemy's buffs into penalty when attacking would be hilarious.

[Korath88]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Really, I have no idea why wiki puts him only at A+. He's hard walled by Julia, Nino, and Hector, but that hardly matters when he erases 95% of the game's units without support and without risk of counterattack.

The wiki's tier list is laughably wrong on many units' placements, just like any other tier list tbh. Placing Reinhardt in the same tier as Navarre(who is ridiculously overrated by said list) is an insult, if nothing else.

[Roflolxp54]

1 minute ago, Korath88 said:

The wiki's tier list is laughably wrong on many units' placements, just like any other tier list tbh. Placing Reinhardt in the same tier as Navarre(who is ridiculously overrated by said list) is an insult, if nothing else.

The SI tier list on feheroes.wiki doesn't consider usage of a unit in Horse/Flier/Armor/Dragon Emblem teams; it seems to be considering Reinhardt outside of Horse Emblem teams.

[Korath88]

10 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

The SI tier list on feheroes.wiki doesn't consider usage of a unit in Horse/Flier/Armor/Dragon Emblem teams; it seems to be considering Reinhardt outside of Horse Emblem teams.

Even outside of horse emblem, Rein is still a really good unit, and should not, by any means, be placed in A+. I still don't understand why Navarre is ranked so highly in A+ either.

Honestly, the reason I hate tier lists so much is because people tend to treat them like the word of god, and not many people challenge it's judgment, unless a popular character gets ranked lowly, like the outrage on Reddit when M!Robin was placed in C tier.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Korath88

[Clogon]

6 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

it seems to be considering Reinhardt outside of Horse Emblem teams.

Do you not see the pic above of my unbuffed Reinhardt delete Hector without a Special?

The only boost he has is +1 ATK from 1 merge and +4 ATK from Spur ATK. You do not need Horse Emblem for Reinhardt to delete things. Nino and Julia are literally the ONLY unbuffed things my Reinhardt cannot delete. This is why I was asking for a non red solution for Gronblade users a few pages back.

[Okigen]

6 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

The wiki's tier list is laughably wrong on many units' placements, just like any other tier list tbh. Placing Reinhardt in the same tier as Navarre(who is ridiculously overrated by said list) is an insult, if nothing else.

I don't understand that list too. Like... why is Setsuna above Takumi/Klein. Everyone is hyped about Desperation build but I faced her before and I feel that there is nothing she can do that Takumi/Klein can't do either. Like... with brave bows she'll not be fast enough to double sword lords so that build is not really helpful. But for slower units that she can quad, they normally have really high hp/def so  she still can't deal enough damage even with 4 hits. I remember Klein with Brave Bow+ killed my Hector once (can't remember his boon bane though), but Quadsuna is never an issue...  Klein naturally has Death Blow and Takumi has Close Counter, with much less investment. Why are they rated lower ...

[pianime94]

44 minutes ago, OKigen said:

Xander will be guaranteed to have 2 weeks as a bonus character in May, so I think that is a good time to build a cavalry team since I already have Reinhardt, Olwen and Spring Xander. 

I'm not very fond of Horse Emblem though. Playing a team who can oneshot everything sounds pretty boring.

Spoiler

I do think that the funnest part is the building process, not the result.

[LordFrigid]

Well, just got that exclusively 690+ streak. fwiw, after hitting a total merge level of 10, most of the matches I was getting were 690s, with a sprinkling of 680s, and one ~670. Total score is 4868, currently holding rank 586. Meanwhile, Caeda & co. continue to put in work on the defensive end. I have never personally had 10 defensive wins in a single season, so it's kinda satisfying...it might just be this map set (lava looks flier friendly, but idk since I faced a few flier teams on it and didn't have any issues...bridge also looks flier friendly, but I've never faced a flier team on it so I really couldn't say), I'll see next season I guess lol.

[Ryu Yuki]

Damn, wanted to break the 4900 barrier. Unfortunately 4* Michalis can only bring me so far.

Spoiler

 

[azurrys]

Damn. What do I do for team comp text week? I could 5* my neutral Cecilia and play Horse Emblem I guess, I already have Reinhardt and Eldigan and it would be funny as hell. But Cecilia would be a lot of investment... and I don't have a fourth member. I'd have to use 4* Gunter, but he'd tank my score because I'm not going to 5* him.

Sharena is a great choice, except she overlaps with Reinhardt. I'd have to sacrifice a colour (probably green) or Klein to run her, neither of which sounds appealing because I love my OP Archer. Plus I'd have to 5* her too if I don't want her to drop my score. Decisions, decisions.

2 hours ago, OKigen said:

I don't understand that list too. Like... why is Setsuna above Takumi/Klein. Everyone is hyped about Desperation build but I faced her before and I feel that there is nothing she can do that Takumi/Klein can't do either. Like... with brave bows she'll not be fast enough to double sword lords so that build is not really helpful. But for slower units that she can quad, they normally have really high hp/def so  she still can't deal enough damage even with 4 hits. I remember Klein with Brave Bow+ killed my Hector once (can't remember his boon bane though), but Quadsuna is never an issue...  Klein naturally has Death Blow and Takumi has Close Counter, with much less investment. Why are they rated lower ...

This! I don't agree with Setsuna being above those two on the list either. According to the duel simulator, neutral vanilla Klein kills 72 units. Neutral Setsuna with inherited Brave Bow+, Moonbow, LaD3 and Desperation 3 kills 76 units. That's 4 more than Klein and you'd have to sacrifice 2 5-star units, one of whom may be Klein himself. If you gave that LaD3 to Klein instead (even if you left Glacies on him), he'd kill 79 units. Moonbow over Glacies makes him kill 81.

I did check the unit lists (comparing between vanilla Klein and super-inherited Setsuna) and they kill quite a different set of units. However, the notable units that this Setsuna manages to kill (Lyn, Sharena, Olivia, Eirika) are arguably offset by the ones that Klein kills (A!Tiki, Tharja, Eldigan, Jaffar). And giving Klein LaD3 and Moonbow allows him to kill ALL the notable units that Setsuna does while keeping his other notable kills except Eldigan, and picking up some other notables like Nowi, Ephraim and F!Corrin.

You can argue that super SI Setsuna performs a tiny bit better than vanilla Klein, but handing that same SI to Klein lets him do everything Setsuna can except better. Admittedly I haven't run all the numbers and different simulations for stuff like boons and banes/seals/whatever, so if someone else wants to and can prove that Setsuna does perform better than Klein with identical investment, I'll stand corrected. But at this point, unless you like her a lot and want to use her, I don't see much value in revamping her skillset just so she can be a rich man's Klein.

tl;dr Klein > Setsuna with identical (often less) SI investment.

I can't weigh in on Takumi. He just performs an entirely different role with Close Counter and I don't have him or can be bothered to run the numbers to see the relative value between the delete button build and his Close Counter build (plus the value honestly depends on the rest of your team). But in a Klein vs. Setsuna debate I'm firmly on the Klein side.

I'm sorry for going off on you, but Setsuna's placement on the tier list has bugged me forever LOL.

[MaskedAmpharos]

3 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

The SI tier list on feheroes.wiki doesn't consider usage of a unit in Horse/Flier/Armor/Dragon Emblem teams; it seems to be considering Reinhardt outside of Horse Emblem teams.

Reinhardt outside of Horse Emblem teams can OHKO nearly the entire metagame with a proper skillset and deserves a spot on S, especially now that his low BST isn't nearly as penalized in scoring, which was honestly his biggest weakness before. 

Reinhardt on a Horse Emblem team is straight-up broken. 

[Okigen]

19 minutes ago, azurrys said:

Damn. What do I do for team comp text week? I could 5* my neutral Cecilia and play Horse Emblem I guess, I already have Reinhardt and Eldigan and it would be funny as hell. But Cecilia would be a lot of investment... and I don't have a fourth member. I'd have to use 4* Gunter, but he'd tank my score because I'm not going to 5* him.

Sharena is a great choice, except she overlaps with Reinhardt. I'd have to sacrifice a colour (probably green) or Klein to run her, neither of which sounds appealing because I love my OP Archer. Plus I'd have to 5* her too if I don't want her to drop my score. Decisions, decisions.

This! I don't agree with Setsuna being above those two on the list either. According to the duel simulator, neutral vanilla Klein kills 72 units. Neutral Setsuna with inherited Brave Bow+, Moonbow, LaD3 and Desperation 3 kills 76 units. That's 4 more than Klein and you'd have to sacrifice 2 5-star units, one of whom may be Klein himself. If you gave that LaD3 to Klein instead (even if you left Glacies on him), he'd kill 79 units. Moonbow over Glacies makes him kill 81.

I did check the unit lists (comparing between vanilla Klein and super-inherited Setsuna) and they kill quite a different set of units. However, the notable units that this Setsuna manages to kill (Lyn, Sharena, Olivia, Eirika) are arguably offset by the ones that Klein kills (A!Tiki, Tharja, Eldigan, Jaffar). And giving Klein LaD3 and Moonbow allows him to kill ALL the notable units that Setsuna does while keeping his other notable kills except Eldigan, and picking up some other notables like Nowi, Ephraim and F!Corrin.

You can argue that super SI Setsuna performs a tiny bit better than vanilla Klein, but handing that same SI to Klein lets him do everything Setsuna can except better. Admittedly I haven't run all the numbers and different simulations for stuff like boons and banes/seals/whatever, so if someone else wants to and can prove that Setsuna does perform better than Klein with identical investment, I'll stand corrected. But at this point, unless you like her a lot and want to use her, I don't see much value in revamping her skillset just so she can be a rich man's Klein.

tl;dr Klein > Setsuna with identical (often less) SI investment.

I can't weigh in on Takumi. He just performs an entirely different role with Close Counter and I don't have him or can be bothered to run the numbers to see the relative value between the delete button build and his Close Counter build (plus the value honestly depends on the rest of your team). But in a Klein vs. Setsuna debate I'm firmly on the Klein side.

I'm sorry for going off on you, but Setsuna's placement on the tier list has bugged me forever LOL.

Haha you didn't go off on me at all, glad that you think the same. Yes after Klein knocked out my Hector my view on him changed completely :)

I instead have Takumi and not Klein. He doesn't knock out anyone, but with a spd buff or boon  he can tank! He'a really well balanced, just enough speed to only be hit once, and that res/def can tank a hit. And close counter is a great ability that is unique to him, and he has enough stats to utilise it too. FEH makes me like him a lot more, in Conquest I just wanted to punch him in the face lol

[Quintessence]

All the reinhardt talk saddens me more, seeing mine is +spd -atk lol.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Apparently the Wiki tier list doesn't factor skill inheritance, and Reinhardt only becomes S+ with inheritance. Still, being put in A+ with Robin is dumb.

Also, Bunny Lucina is S on that list... Without inheritance. In the same tier as NINO. Why isn't Nino S+ anyway?

[MonkeyCheez3K]

5 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

All the reinhardt talk saddens me more, seeing mine is +spd -atk lol.

The ultimate irony. Also noticed how I spelled his name wrong the entire time, oh well. CURSE YOU, REINHARDT!

That's really something that bothers me about Fire Emblem lately, the way it always turns into One-shot Emblem, it makes everything so bland in a strategy game. I know balancing is hard, but is this what people want, just obliterating everything without much risk? Besides Reinhardt, there is also the ludicrous problem of Bladetomes and the rather secluded occurance of poison dagger. Makes everything so trivial when you have enough resources.

[Birdy]

12 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Apparently the Wiki tier list doesn't factor skill inheritance, and Reinhardt only becomes S+ with inheritance. Still, being put in A+ with Robin is dumb.

Also, Bunny Lucina is S on that list... Without inheritance. In the same tier as NINO. Why isn't Nino S+ anyway?

They have a tier list for that though, see attached =P. Reinhardt is rated A-tier on the inheritance list btw, though I personally (and seeing the comments many others here aswell) don't agree.

Hmm, Nino has a sub-par A skill while Lucina gets one of the best in Swift Sparrow. It gives Lucina the same attack and 4 more speed during attack fase. Nino does have the far better weapon though.
 

[azurrys]

27 minutes ago, OKigen said:

Haha you didn't go off on me at all, glad that you think the same. Yes after Klein knocked out my Hector my view on him changed completely :)

I instead have Takumi and not Klein. He doesn't knock out anyone, but with a spd buff or boon  he can tank! He'a really well balanced, just enough speed to only be hit once, and that res/def can tank a hit. And close counter is a great ability that is unique to him, and he has enough stats to utilise it too. FEH makes me like him a lot more, in Conquest I just wanted to punch him in the face lol

Klein actually can't one-round Hector unless he's taken a little damage first, but since Hector's there to soak up damage, the fact that Klein can take off about 2/3 of his HP is just plain scary LOL. And thanks for the insight on Takumi! I suspected that Close Counter made him much more suitable as a bait/tank type, so that's cool to know. Among archers, my gut feeling is that Takumi is probably the best suited to Close Counter, though I don't have any numbers to back me up this time. I've wanted him since I started playing, but that was unfortunately after his banner expired so... I don't think my chances are very high. Oh well, he'll be back in a banner eventually, I'm sure.

I haven't played Conquest yet so I know very little of him in his original game, but I totally agree that FEH makes you like characters a lot more. Hell, I didn't care much about Klein until FEH and now here I am. On my next playthrough of Binding Blade, I'm definitely going to use him!

19 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Apparently the Wiki tier list doesn't factor skill inheritance, and Reinhardt only becomes S+ with inheritance. Still, being put in A+ with Robin is dumb.

Also, Bunny Lucina is S on that list... Without inheritance. In the same tier as NINO. Why isn't Nino S+ anyway?

Actually, even on the inheritance tier list, he's still A+. I don't get it either.

Edit: whoops, ninja'd LOL.

Edited April 16, 2017 by azurrys

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, Birdy said:

They have a tier list for that though, see attached =P. Reinhardt is rated A-tier on the inheritance list btw, though I personally (and seeing the comments many others here aswell) don't agree.

Hmm, Nino has a sub-par A skill while Lucina gets one of the best in Swift Sparrow. It gives Lucina the same attack and 4 more speed during attack fase. Nino does have the far better weapon though.
 

Maybe my -Spd Bunny Lucina is coloring my judgment, but to me, even with Swift Sparrow, she has a lack of firepower, and doesn't reliably take out the people she's supposed to, being the Sword units (and sometimes Tharja).

Nino doesn't need no Passives. You can unequip everything except her tome and she's still gonna blow a hole through everything.

Thinking about it, I guess maybe Nino and Tharja aren't S+ because while they are very good, they require support to be game-breaking. Though if you ask me, Nino with no buffs is still pretty scary.