Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[MaskedAmpharos]

Currently rank 1306 with a score of 4770

But some of the wins were from the old system (which offered fewer points per win than the new system), so I intend to do another run but this time entirely with the new system. Hope to break 4.8k at least :D

[Vaximillian]

Score still 4,750, rank 3,490 now. Pretty much my ceiling. No defence wins yet :(

Going to finally rearrange my defence team. Will an all-blue 5⋆ Sharena, 4⋆ Effie, 5⋆ Ninian, and 4⋆ Nowi (or Corrin) do? Just will need to level up the manakete. Which one though?

Edited April 13, 2017 by Vaximillian

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'd say level up both dragons and put them in. Fortify Dragons can be obnoxious. The other reason I say this is that I don't think armours are a good pick for defense teams. I find Effies and Hectors pretty easy prey whenever I'm doing offense (the only exception being that Effie plus triple Hector from last night, but even that turned out to not be particularly bad).

[MaskedAmpharos]

31 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Score still 4,750, rank 3,490 now. Pretty much my ceiling. No defence wins yet :(

Going to finally rearrange my defence team. Will an all-blue 5⋆ Sharena, 4⋆ Effie, 5⋆ Ninian, and 4⋆ Nowi (or Corrin) do? Just will need to level up the manakete. Which one though?

Do you have any ranged characters?

Also I'd replace Effie with Corrin (to have both Nowi and Corrin) as armors aren't particularly good on defense. 

Generally you use armors to bait enemies that rush toward you on offense, but on defense... With their movement, chances are they won't get to the enemies till the rest of your team's dead. 

[Phoenix_Kensai]

Managed a deathless run my first time through, which is a first, for a score of 4,740 and rank 5,010. My team was Spring Camilla, Hinoka, Hector, and Lyn (+1), which minor skill inheritance on all four.

Now I switched Hector with Tiki (+1, but no skill inheritance) hoping for a better score, and it seems to have boosted the average battle value by... maybe 10 points or so? I'm not sure. But now I'm going up against teams of low-mid merged characters with heavy skill inheritance, which is a little worrying.

EDIT: Maybe that was just a fluke. The second match had no merged characters, and a point value in the upper end of what I was seeing before. I wonder if I'm in some weird limbo between whales and free players.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Phoenix_Kensai

[Vaximillian]

29 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Do you have any ranged characters?

Also I'd replace Effie with Corrin (to have both Nowi and Corrin) as armors aren't particularly good on defense. 

Generally you use armors to bait enemies that rush toward you on offense, but on defense... With their movement, chances are they won't get to the enemies till the rest of your team's dead. 

Vanilla 4⋆ lvl 40 Ursula is my only blue mage. I should use her in place of whom?

Okay, I've been leveling both Nowi and Corrin for a while now. Ninian should be helpful for then with her Fortify Dragons.

EDIT: oh yeah, I also have a 4⋆ Reinhardt. He too needs some leveling but I've been sort of neglecting him due to him not having Dire Thunder.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Vaximillian

[MaskedAmpharos]

15 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Vanilla 4⋆ lvl 40 Ursula is my only blue mage. I should use her in place of whom?

Okay, I've been leveling both Nowi and Corrin for a while now. Ninian should be helpful for then with her Fortify Dragons.

EDIT: oh yeah, I also have a 4⋆ Reinhardt. He too needs some leveling but I've been sort of neglecting him due to him not having Dire Thunder.

5* Reinhardt is, in my somewhat biased opinion, one of the best possible units to have on a Defense team, so I would recommend 5*ing him soon if you can.

Since he's only a 4* though, I'd say Ursula's better atm (in place of Effie. Armored units not named Hector are way better on Offense than Defense)

Also, while mono-color teams are recommended for defense, you don't have to have it be completely mono-colored. If you have 3 solid blue units and a solid non-blue ranged that you think would be better than either Ursula or Reinhardt, that's honestly probably better.

My defense team is Reinhardt, Ninian, Sharena, and Ryoma, and I consistently get multiple defense wins every week, so just mix n' match till you find something that clicks. 

[Ice Dragon]

20 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

16 hours later:

Score is still 4,894.
Rank is now 208.

No new defense wins yet since the update.

Score is still 4,894 (1 death).
Rank is now 295.

Still no new defense wins yet since the update.

Waiting until I get some more skill inheritance fodder with the upcoming banner before I update my defense team.

Current plans are to update my defense team to this:

• +10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Thunder Breath+, Dance, ???, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragons)
• +10 Nowi [+Atk, -Res] (Thunder Breath+, Rally Atk/Rally Spd?, Moonbow, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragons, Atk +1)
• +9 Lucina [+Atk, -Res] (Falchion, Moonbow, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone Atk 3)
• +10 Lucina [+Spd, -Res] (Falchion, Moonbow, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone Atk 3)

The goal is to try to keep Ninian and Nowi together and the two Lucinas together.

The best way to keep Ninian and Nowi together despite Ninian's Dance is probably to have Nowi have Rally Atk or Rally Spd. Hopefully, this causes the AI to have Nowi constantly trying to buff Ninian. Nowi's default Rally Def won't work because Fortify Dragons's buff will prevent casting of Rally Def. The only way for an opposing Lucina to survive a hit from Nowi with this setup is to have +HP and Fury 3, +Res and Fury 3, or Fury 3 and S HP +3.

The Lucinas run Moonbow to add several one-round kills against blue units that aren't running Swordbreaker (because it seems most blue units run Lancebreaker instead) or Triangle Adept. As long as the Lucinas pick the same target (which they should), they should hopefully stay together and have Hone Atk always active, which also prevents Nowi from targeting them with Rally Atk. Desperation is filler for if I ever want to use them on offense, though I'm also considering Quick Riposte.

Any obvious flaws I'm missing due to my sleep deprivation or anything anyone can think of to improve this composition?

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Any obvious flaws I'm missing due to my sleep deprivation or anything anyone can think of to improve this composition?

Aside from the fact that it's literally too high in score to be worth it?

(250 def score gets max rewards, so a high score defense team just means it'll be fighting people who are actually trying---good builds, good units, good amount of practice.)

 

Otherwise the biggest problem is that a mage + dancer duo literally duos your whole team. Reinhardt doesn't even need to try for Lucina =Rein kills Lucina at +0, without even needing the A-slot.  Nowi dies with +Atk, DB3, and a 2 Atk buff. Everyone's melee, so Rein + dancer can just pick off your whole team 1 by one. (Rein kills Ninian first, and gets danced out of the way to kill Nowi a turn later.)

Edited April 13, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Otherwise the biggest problem is that a mage + dancer duo literally duos your whole team.

Doesn't matter. The point of defense is to win any one match each week, not win every match.

And to show off your characters.

To that end, a defense team needs to be able to cause trouble for a typical balanced offense team, not counter every possible offense team.

 

4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

(250 def score gets max rewards, so a high score defense team just means it'll be fighting people who are actually trying---good builds, good units, good amount of practice.)

People who are actually trying also have a higher chance of surrendering when they lose a unit.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Doesn't matter. The point of defense is to win any one match each week, not win every match.

And to show off your characters.

To that end, a defense team needs to be able to cause trouble for a typical balanced offense team, not counter every possible offense team.

 

People who are actually trying also have a higher chance of surrendering when they lose a unit.

The only way they'd lose a unit is if they fucked up math, though. Melee infantry don't have the attack range to be all that threatening. Nowi has dancer support, but it's Nowi.

 

And I guess I'm just used to dancer + damage dealer lineups---which heavily crush slow 'death-ball' style teams like yours, since I can kill one and gtfo, rinse and repeat.

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

(Rein kills Ninian first, and gets danced out of the way to kill Nowi a turn later.)

One more thing. +0 +Atk Reinhardt with Death Blow 3 cannot one-round kill Nowi and is killed on the counterattack. He needs a minimum of +2 Atk in buffs (or a +4 merge) to land the one-round kill.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

One more thing. +0 +Atk Reinhardt with Death Blow 3 cannot one-round kill Nowi and is killed on the counterattack. He needs a minimum of +2 Atk in buffs (or a +4 merge) to land the one-round kill.

I mentioned needing 2 Atk buff in my original post, I believe. (The dancer will carry it, since it's such a minor buff.)

[Clogon]

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

One more thing. +0 +Atk Reinhardt with Death Blow 3 cannot one-round kill Nowi and is killed on the counterattack. He needs a minimum of +2 Atk in buffs (or a +4 merge) to land the one-round kill.

Almost every team in the Arena has either Hone ATK, or either Eirika/Ephiram. Shouldn't you just expect to face off against a buffed up Reinhardt? My Reinhardt wrecks entire teams since I run 3 Spur ATK3 + Eirika. At + 11 ATK and Draconic Aura, I am pretty sure nothing survives. It also allows Hector to OHKO a lot more things (pesky Green Mages).

My defense team is currently:

Hector (leader): Pivot, Bonfire, Vantage, Spur ATK3. +3 HP seal

Reinhardt: Reposition, Draconic Aura, Death Blow, Wings of mercy and Spur ATK 3. +1 ATK seal

Reposition and Pivot generally allows Hector to always be in front of Reinhardt.

 

Eirika: Moonblow, Fury, Escape Route. +1 SPD seal.

Kagero 4*: Vanilla.

Similarly, Pivot allows eirika to go in front of Kagero.

 

6 defence wins so far. 268 is my highest score. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Clogon

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Score of 4768 (all new matches)

• Ground Zero (1AM PST Apr 13) - #979
• 14 Hours Later - #1535

Pretty small decrease. It was inevitable for me to fall out of top 1k, but if the current rate keeps up, I'll be very securely in the top 5k. Now, if only I could get a defense win. I did get Nino and Cherche up to level, so I'm currently running Sharena as buffer and body blocker to Nino, with Brave Axe Cherche and a Repositioning Cordelia. Dunno how well the AI is gonna do with them, but at least one slip-up from someone might let either of the green powerhouses wreck a unit. >.>

Really hoping that Sharena is also on next week's bonus list, because then I get to also run that team as an Arena offense team, which would change things up and let me run something pretty aggressive. If not, I guess I can finagle something around Navarre (leveling him just in case) or if I happen to get lucky on the single pull I'll have, the Valentia character. Not holding out high hopes for having an applicable 5-star from the flier banners since I think there's much higher odds that they'd pick Camilla, Minerva and Hinoka before Cordelia or Cherche (my Camillas are all 4* -Atk crap; I'd rather field Navarre).

[chirp]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Current plans are to update my defense team to this:

• +10 Ninian [+Spd, -Res] (Thunder Breath+, Dance, ???, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragons)
• +10 Nowi [+Atk, -Res] (Thunder Breath+, Rally Atk/Rally Spd?, Moonbow, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragons, Atk +1)
• +9 Lucina [+Atk, -Res] (Falchion, Moonbow, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone Atk 3)
• +10 Lucina [+Spd, -Res] (Falchion, Moonbow, Fury 3, Desperation 3, Hone Atk 3)

With four +9 or better units, I think that your squad will have very few peers. If the matching is balanced -- as it seems to be -- you squad might therefore rarely see battle, because it can be paired with a few dozen squads at most. And fewer battles mean fewer chances of winning or causing a surrender.

My own squad has a total rating of 643. Before the update, it was paired with 620-630 squads. Now, it is paired with 670-680 squads. I use the same squad for attack and defense, although it's tuned for attack -- the only thing that interests me. Nevertheless, I get defense wins every week. Most of the times 3-5, sometimes just one.

Maybe aiming for the average is the surest way to get defense wins ? I think that the question is open.

[MaskedAmpharos]

I think Ice Dragon already understands that he'd get wins more easily with a weaker team, but he wants to show off his stronger units, which is perfectly understandable.

In any case, as far as improving upon the team you suggested goes @Ice Dragon, I'd personally recommend switching out a Lucina for high damage mage, such as Linde, since your team is currently all melee, which leaves it rather vulnerable to being sniped off, as others have mentioned. 

[Korath88]

Offense: 4,766

Defense: 291

Rank: 1,701

I'm set for this week it seems. Will be pulling for Alm later today so I can have a bonus unit for the next 2 seasons since there's no way I'm using a 4* Navarre 

[MaskedAmpharos]

12 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Offense: 4,766

Defense: 291

Rank: 1,701

I'm set for this week it seems. Will be pulling for Alm later today so I can have a bonus unit for the next 2 seasons since there's no way I'm using a 4* Navarre 

What about Sharena? She's a very solid unit as a 5*, and there's a high chance she'll be a bonus hero (since Anna and then Alfonse were bonus heroes the past two rotations)

That said don't let me discourage you from pulling on the banner either way because it's a kickass banner.

[Korath88]

1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

What about Sharena? She's a very solid unit as a 5*, and there's a high chance she'll be a bonus hero (since Anna and then Alfonse were bonus heroes the past two rotations)

That said don't let me discourage you from pulling on the banner either way because it's a kickass banner.

Don't have Sharena at 5*, and I only have 10k feathers right now.

And I'm saving to promote Zephiel anyways 

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I think Ice Dragon already understands that he'd get wins more easily with a weaker team, but he wants to show off his stronger units, which is perfectly understandable.

In any case, as far as improving upon the team you suggested goes @Ice Dragon, I'd personally recommend switching out a Lucina for high damage mage, such as Linde, since your team is currently all melee, which leaves it rather vulnerable to being sniped off, as others have mentioned. 

The decent merge mages I currently have at my disposal are

• Linde [+Spd, -Def] with enough copies to merge to +4
• +10 Robin [+Spd, -Res] (Close Counter, Quick Riposte 3)
• +9 Julia [neutral] with enough copies to merge to +10
• +10 Julia [+Spd, -Def] or [+Spd, -Res] where I have a level 1 +9 ready to merge onto one of those bases
• +4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Death Blow 3)
• Tharja [+Spd, -Def] with enough copies to merge to +4 with a few alternate nature bases available

Any particular one that you think makes the most sense to use with this team?

[Roflolxp54]

Offense: 4197

Defense: 264

Rank: N/A

[MaskedAmpharos]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The decent merge mages I currently have at my disposal are

• Linde [+Spd, -Def] with enough copies to merge to +4
• +10 Robin [+Spd, -Res] (Close Counter, Quick Riposte 3)
• +9 Julia [neutral] with enough copies to merge to +10
• +10 Julia [+Spd, -Def] or [+Spd, -Res] where I have a level 1 +9 ready to merge onto one of those bases
• +4 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Death Blow 3)
• Tharja [+Spd, -Def] with enough copies to merge to +4 with a few alternate nature bases available

Any particular one that you think makes the most sense to use with this team?

I'm personally more of a fan of the dancer + nuke defense team (as you really just want to delete one person as quickly as you can. Generally that's enough to make someone surrender at our Arena range), which Linde and Reinhardt go well with.

However, if you decided that wall of death was the way to go, then Robin would probably compliment that team better. 

[Rafiel's Aria]

I'm totally screaming internally. Two 7 streak deathless runs in one week. And with the Arena changes, my average score per Advanced battle went from an average of 640 to an average of 650-680. Might not have gotten any 5 stars in my pulls on the new banner, but my Arena score has been consistently pretty good. I lowered the difficulty a bit by using a lower-leveled character, and that made all the difference in the world. 

Current Score: 4664 (offensive) 286 (defensive)      Current Rank: 13,176

I put my current offensive team in spoilers. Typing it out was pretty fun. I know there's a lot I can improve on, but I'm pretty satisfied with the balance.  

Spoiler

5* Nino (+HP -DEF) Lv. 27 - Weapon: Gronblade+ Assist: Draw Back  Special: None  A. Life and Death 2  B. None  C. Hone ATK 3   S. HP+3
-Just got a Shanna (PRAISE THE LORD!), so I can give her Desperation 3. I just need 2,000 feathers to get Shanna to 4 stars. I also hope to give her Moonbow, but my spare Palla is 3 stars, so once again I need 2,000 feathers. Even as she is, she does pretty great in the Arena. She packs a mean punch. In the future, I hope to have her on a team with Sharena or ideally Azura (if I'm lucky enough to pull her. She's really good at sniping troublesome characters, especially if the others can't ORKO them.

5* M. Robin+1 (+HP -DEF) Lv. 40 Weapon: Blarraven+ Assist: None Special: Bonfire A. Triangle Adept 3   B. Vantage 3    C. Spur DEF 3   S. None
-My first 5 star character ever. Not an ideal boon/bane, but I love him nonetheless. He's my Takumi killer...and also really good at taking blows from sword users. Vantage hasn't been particularly useful so far, so I may replace it with Swordbreaker 2 from Sully. 

5* Lucina (+RES -ATK) Lv. 40 Weapon: Falchion Assist: None Special: Luna A. Defiant SPD 3   B. Swordbreaker 2    C. Spur ATK 3  S. None
-She's good at killing those pesky dragons and red units. She's not as tanky as I'd like her to be, but the extra DEF from Robin helps her out. I have a 5* Chrom that could probably fill this role. He has higher attack and DEF, but suffers in the SPD department. I may experiment with him in the future.  

5* Michalis (Neutral) Lv. 40 Weapon: Hauteclere Assist: Swap Special: Dragon Fang  A. Iote's Shield  B. Quick Riposte 2    C. Threaten DEF 3  S. None
-He is my pride and joy at the moment. (Got him in the special event before his official GHB.) Dragon Fang isn't my first choice for his special, but I had a spare Sophia at 4 stars. I want Nino to have Moonbow, so I figured Dragon Fang wasn't bad for him. His RES isn't great, but he can wipe things out. 

 

[salinea]

Man the arena is just so weird now. Half the time is fairly easy, and then there's that one time that will screw you over. Dancers are much more present, too, which is increasing the difficulty.

Had about 3 deaths this run, barely above 4,500 score.

I really need to do better.