Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Score of 4822:

• May 3 9PM PT - #1276
• May 4 3PM PT - #1799

Hmmm, that's a somewhat concerning drop. If the same rate/hour continues, I'll end up at 4588. Mondays do tend to slow down a bit, so I think I can shave some loss off and call it reasonably secure. Still no defenses yet. Decided to try swapping in my Olivia 4* +2 (because I haven't had the fortune to draw a single blue refresher yet), even though it might screw matchmaking up a bunch. I also swapped in a recently acquired -Spd Tharja. Added to Nino and Rein, this gives me a rainbow of ranged magic damage, so maybe that'll trip someone up in conjunction with Olivia (provided Olivia being 4* doesn't make it so my defense team never fights anyone ever).

Edited May 6, 2017 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Othin]

13 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Anyway, score of 4822:

• May 3 9PM PT - #1276
• May 4 3PM PT - #1799

Hmmm, that's a somewhat concerning drop. If the same rate/hour continues, I'll end up at 4588. Mondays do tend to slow down a bit, so I think I can shave some loss off and call it reasonably secure. Still no defenses yet. Decided to try swapping in my Olivia 4* +2 (because I haven't had the fortune to draw a single blue refresher yet), even though it might screw matchmaking up a bunch. I also swapped in a recently acquired -Spd Tharja. Added to Nino and Rein, this gives me a rainbow of ranged magic damage, so maybe that'll trip someone up in conjunction with Olivia (provided Olivia being 4* doesn't make it so my defense team never fights anyone ever).

We don't actually have a Monday this season, since it's ending a day early.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Oh, right, forgot about that. I guess that means that it'll be so slow that it'll be totally dead.

I wonder if that's gonna cause some kinda crazy rush on Sunday as everyone tries to get their streak finished at the last minute.

[SakuraFish]

Managed to up my Score from 4796 to 4802 with the same Team of 5*Titania+1, 5*Hector, 5*Lilina and 5*Sharena which is currently Rank 2875. The game was gracious enough to give me some higher point rolls of the daily swords, so I guess this will be as high as it gets for me without rerolling matches. I hope that this is enough for the top 5k, at least regarding to the last season, though there is that trend that the amount of points needed for top 5k is going up every season.

Also the defensive Wins are evading me once again. After having up a 3 Blue 1 Red team with no success, I'm going to try my cavalry team for the rest of the season. I hope that -blade 4*Cecilia and 4*Ursula, backed by 5*Xander and 5*Titania can overrun someone. Not having a Reinhardt and only 1 HoneCavalry sucks, but there's nothing one can do about it.

[Absolute Zero]

Jeez getting a deathless run with vanilla 4* Zephiel was tricky. It was like being down a unit lol I think I moved him a total of 4 squares over all 7 battles and he fought 0 enemies.

Clocking in at 4784 this week

Currently ranked #4416

[Rezzy]

Merged Spring Camillas are freaking everywhere this week.  I almost had a Deathless 7 streak, but got killed at match 7, so I'm sitting on a score of 4641.  I have 9 D Wins so far.

I like how my team of Ike, Julia, Takumi, Abel is going overall.  Once I get Hone Attack 3 on Ike it will help a bit.  I feel more confident in my ability to get a Streak this week, since I'm easily beating most times, but dancer + merged Spring Camilla, my team has a tough time countering.  How do people mange to get so many Camillas anyway?  I've noticed that I have faced the same team several times now.

I must be missing something, because I did the math, and my Takumi should have killed Julia, but she was surviving with 1 HP.  I forgot to screenshot it,

[Othin]

24 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I must be missing something, because I did the math, and my Takumi should have killed Julia, but she was surviving with 1 HP.  I forgot to screenshot it,

Naga gives +2 Def/Res when attacked. Did you account for that?

[LordFrigid]

Update for 4930:

4930 points:

5pm PDT 5/2: 184

4pm PDT 5/3: 315

4pm PDT 5/4: 447

26 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I must be missing something, because I did the math, and my Takumi should have killed Julia, but she was surviving with 1 HP.  I forgot to screenshot it,

Did you factor in Naga's +2 Def/Res when defending? I forgot that once, and I spent a good 4-5 minutes doing nothing (well...in-game. irl I was freaking out, running every number I could think of lol).

Edit: ninja'd.

Edited May 4, 2017 by LordFrigid

[GinRei]

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

That doesn't sound right to me.

It can't be denied that there's some luck in what maps you roll, but the teams you take into said maps do make a difference.

I don't know anything about your team other than that you're running Anna as a bonus unit, but I do know that Anna isn't suited to buffing; she can take on magical blues pretty well with her high Spd and Res, though her Atk is indeed less than impressive without support. Have you considered using Zephiel? He's much more useful overall, with the bulk to meatshield incredibly well. All he really needs is Pivot imo.

Defense wins have some degree of randomness to them, but team composition does matter. I personally find it hard to believe that the same players get the same or relative number of defense wins per week, without having to look much at their composition, is just a coincidence. But there's other factors involved besides "Reinhardt rolls" in the case of @MaskedAmpharos, specifically; perhaps the opponent in question was surrendering to give players free defense wins, or they misplayed when they would have otherwise won. It's nigh impossible to deduce the circumstances in which someone acquired a defense win.

Unless you bring in an exceptionally poor team, I'm not convinced that there is any team against which you would have lost instatntly from turn 1, before anyone has moved; from Repositioning to just making some planning beforehand, there are lots of ways to avoid losing someone. Have you considered running different compositions? Zephiel and Hana are a great place to start from--and are how a number of people, myself included, have been able to perform their deathless runs.

It isn't just a matter of luck that some people are able to place better than others; they have to do the same maps as everyone else and their teams have to address the same threats. Pinning it on something outside of your control isn't a healthy mindset. Because otherwise, why bother playing, then?

I feel like you're confusing my statement about the randomness of defense wins and my general statement about this arena session in general.  I didn't say anything about offensive arena being pure luck.  Absolutely nowhere did I say deathless runs are impossible or 100% luck.

Also, saying "no team instantly loses" and "just take a different team" are... very conflicting statements.

And the map I'm talking about with Reinhardt is the 4th map down on Rotation 2.  Reinhardt in slot 2, dancer/singer in slot 3, and ranged in slot 4.  Ranged opens the spot in front of dancer, Reinhardt moves, dancer dances.  Your unit in slot 3 then gets hit by Dire Thunder.  If they aren't one of the few able to tank the hit, they die on the spot.  And if you opened the spot in front of 3, they can hit quite a number of other spots.  And if you don't have anyone in slot 3 and didn't open that spot, they move completely differently and you're stuck funneling your team into either the top or bottom, or splitting your team.

As for my team, I don't have anyone who can give Pivot to Zephiel.  Only ever got one unit with it, and I gave it to Hector long before Zephiel even had his GHB.  I may give Hana a shot, even as a 3-star, if this current team continue to disappoint.  Just very odd that using Anna in the same capacity as Sharena is yielding so much more trouble.  Best I can imagine is that one hit Sharena would take every few fights is the difference maker.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Naga gives +2 Def/Res when attacked. Did you account for that?

 

1 hour ago, LordFrigid said:

Update for 4930:

4930 points:

5pm PDT 5/2: 184

4pm PDT 5/3: 315

4pm PDT 5/4: 447

Did you factor in Naga's +2 Def/Res when defending? I forgot that once, and I spent a good 4-5 minutes doing nothing (well...in-game. irl I was freaking out, running every number I could think of lol).

Edit: ninja'd.

That was probably it.  I forgot Naga did that, and that's pretty sad, since I use Julia every week.

[LordFrigid]

10 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

That was probably it.  I forgot Naga did that, and that's pretty sad, since I use Julia every week.

I wouldn't worry about it, it's "big draw" is the dragon effectiveness. It was only after that I thought about and remembered that Falchion has Dragon Effectiveness + another skill (Renewal 2) as well. You know who I was trying to attack that Julia with when I saw her surviving with 1 HP? ...... My Julia =P .

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, GinRei said:

I feel like you're confusing my statement about the randomness of defense wins and my general statement about this arena session in general.  I didn't say anything about offensive arena being pure luck.  Absolutely nowhere did I say deathless runs are impossible or 100% luck.

Alright. I just saw those two statements close together and read it that way. My bad.

Quote

Also, saying "no team instantly loses" and "just take a different team" are... very conflicting statements.

 

Quote

Unless you bring in an exceptionally poor team, I'm not convinced that there is any team against which you would have lost instantly from turn 1.

This. You can't make a team that doesn't properly address meta threats and not expect to get rolled. If you're having issues getting deathless in Arena, you might need to reconsider your composition. That's all I was saying.

 

Quote

And the map I'm talking about with Reinhardt is the 4th map down on Rotation 2.  Reinhardt in slot 2, dancer/singer in slot 3, and ranged in slot 4.  Ranged opens the spot in front of dancer, Reinhardt moves, dancer dances.  Your unit in slot 3 then gets hit by Dire Thunder.  If they aren't one of the few able to tank the hit, they die on the spot.  And if you opened the spot in front of 3, they can hit quite a number of other spots.  And if you don't have anyone in slot 3 and didn't open that spot, they move completely differently and you're stuck funneling your team into either the top or bottom, or splitting your team.

Kiting doesn't work nearly as well against Dancer teams as it does against others, since Dancing can open up unexpected AI plays like the one you mentioned; I can agree it's especially troublesome on this map in particular because of how close the teams are to each other, a la the Bridge map. That being said, splitting up your team is actually incredibly effective here, and it's usually what I employ to separate the pair or force them to suicide onto my green mage. Not everyone has access to a Nino or Julia, though, so I'll give you that.

Edited May 5, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Astellius]

What sorts of teams are best on Defense? For awhile, I was getting about 1 win a week, running Sharena, Cherche, Camilla, and adult Tiki (or something like that), but I didn't get any last week (not sure who I was running). So I decided to switch it up with Azura, Reinhardt, Gunter, and Ike. I figured, "Welp, I usually hate it when the other team has either Reinhardt or a dancer, so I'll just put both on mine!" That setup has gotten 2 wins so far. Gunter's just there to give Reinhardt the Hone buff, in hopes that it helps him kill something. But I'm not really sure what thinking goes behind determining who should be in which slot (other than Reinhardt & Gunter should be in adjacent slots).

Also, Azura, Ike, Reinhardt, and Camilla scored me 4,750 on offense, which is a new high score for me!

[Jave]

I haven't posted in this thread before, but here it is: My mainstay arena team is Sanaki/Effie/Nino, with the 4th spot saved for the Bonus Unit. It's served me well with usually ending in the 4,400-4,600 points range. This week I managed to achieve my first deathless since the big update that changed the Arena scoring. As of this post, I'm at the #6,407 spot.

Spoiler

 

[Katrisa]

Question for folks.  I was rocking the arena really hard up till the scoring change.  Which then caused my high BST team to now face many more ranged units (yuck).  So now I'm reconsidering the following two comps:

Counter Comp:
   FCorrin - Reposition Lightning Breath+, Triangle Adept, Seal Res, Threaten Defense OR  Lightning Breath+, Life or Death, Desperation, Threaten Res
   Xander - Swap/Reposition, Base weapon, Triangle Adept, Quick Riposte (or Sword Breaker), Speed Buff
   Hector - Swap, Base weapon, Distant Counter, Vantage, Attack Buff

Horse Emblem:
   Xander - Swap/Reposition, Base weapon, Triangle Adept, Quick Riposte (or Sword Breaker), Buffs
   Reinhardt - Swap/Reposition, Base weapon, DeathBlow, Lance Breaker (or Quick Riposte), Buffs
   Cecilia - Drawback/Reciprocal Aid, Gronnraven, Triangle Adept, Flexible, Buffs OR Gronnblade, Life or Death, Flexible, Buffs

Anyone have thoughts or see holes?  

My primary concern with the counter comp is if I run FCorrin with TA I'm going to lack a sweeper.  On the other hand if I run FCorrin with Life or Death... I'm going to get hit hard by Falchion users but at 42 spd FCorrin will pretty much double almost everyone (45 after merging her once).  So she should proceed to sweep after taking a single hit.  None the less being all melee without dragback I'll sometimes get stuck with melee+ranged units that won't separate and are not possible to tank.

My concern on the horse comp is if Cecilia is better built with Gronnraven+TA or Gronnblade+LoD or Deathblow.  My fear is while Gronnblade will be stupid fun, you essentially give up your ability to counter attack much of anything with her low speed.  With horse buffs you'll be able to nip a hit of this or that but not much.  Does anyone have experience with these two rough builds of Cecilia?

[Infinite Dreams]

Got a lower score than the last two seasons, but I'm still happy with it because it was deathless.  Offense score of 4744.  I don't have a 5* bonus unit this time, so my 4* Clarine tagged along.  I like having a healer.  

I'm probably going to be kicked out of the top 10k in a few hours.  I should be able to stay in 10k-30k, which is good enough for me! 

No defense wins yet, boo.  I figured my shiny new Reinhardt + Azura combo would mess at least one person up, but I guess not.  I kind of feel like a jerk for putting Reinhardt in my defense team since he's so annoying, so if I get a win, I'll remove him. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

So this Camilla... Has the Carrot Axe+...? Is that good?

LOL she has Vantage. s y n e r g y mirite

Edited May 5, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Luchi]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

So this Camilla... Has the Carrot Axe+...? Is that good?

LOL she has Vantage. s y n e r g y mirite

lol set-up makes no sense at all. I once saw a Hector with Wary Fighter too. xD

[Vaximillian]

36 minutes ago, Luchi said:

lol set-up makes no sense at all. I once saw a Hector with Wary Fighter too. xD

Nothing beats Hector with Pass.

[Clogon]

34 minutes ago, Luchi said:

I once saw a Hector with Wary Fighter too. xD

Armads > than Wary Fighter. If the Hector was +Spd and was in an Armour only team with 3 Goad Armour, the 40 total speed will let him double many things while preventing almost all enemies from doubling him. Only 45+ Spd users that have Axe Breaker would be able to do so.

[Bartozio]

Got around to getting a deadless run, score is now 4750.

Currently ranks around 9k, but will probably drop below the 10k over the weekend. Team was Ike, Nino, Reinhard and Sharena.

Reinhard is truly a monster. He already kills almost anyting, and I haven't even done any SI for him, or placed him on a cavalry team. It's also funny how I used to be somewhat scared of M!Robin, while Nino can now just obliterate him.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

46 minutes ago, Clogon said:

Armads > than Wary Fighter. If the Hector was +Spd and was in an Armour only team with 3 Goad Armour, the 40 total speed will let him double many things while preventing almost all enemies from doubling him. Only 45+ Spd users that have Axe Breaker would be able to do so.

Wait, so Armads' QR will break his own Wary Fighter?

[Lyrai]

I'm currently using a full cavalry team with my Eliwood, Cecilia, Reindhart, and Clarine.

I did get one death on this run due to a mistake, but I got 4588 arena rating. If deathless, I would've got around 4650~. My Eliwood slays any Green mage, Axes, and swords with Distant Counter & Swordbreaker, TA Cecilia slays any Colorless and Blue units with Quick Riposte, Reindhart slays any Red mages, Swords, and Lances.. Clarine doesn't do much but patching up and giving debuffs when given the chance, but it's for the sake of the bonus unit mostly. I have quite a lot of coverage with this cavalry team and I'm enjoying them so far. :)

Still, although it's lesser than last week's rating, I am content with getting 4500~ rating anyway.

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Wait, so Armads' QR will break his own Wary Fighter?

As far as I know, Wary Fighter will break his QR. Only Brave weapons can hit twice.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Lyrai

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

As far as I know, Wary Fighter will break his QR. Only Brave weapons can hit twice.

I was asking: if you put Wary Fighter 3 on Hector, then have him counterattack for Armads' Quick Ripsote to activate, does it all just cancel out and check Speed instead? That's some weird stuff.

[Lyrai]

5 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I was asking: if you put Wary Fighter 3 on Hector, then have him counterattack for Armads' Quick Ripsote to activate, does it all just cancel out and check Speed instead? That's some weird stuff.

In my personal opinion, it will cancel out his QR and activate the Wary Fighter instead for the sake of its usability. I have a hunch that slot skills take priority over weapon skills whenever it conflicts.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Lyrai