Arena Discussion Thread (inc. Assault)

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

@Lyrai Kagero's only scary if you're running all-infantry tho. If you have a cavalier, or an armor, or a flier (not a dragon tho, those count as infantry), then Kagero isn't such a threat.

@SatsumaFSoysoy How does your Reinhardt have Drag Back? Do you mean Draw Back? Because I'm pretty sure Drag Back is melee-units-only.
But yeah, being able to face your own defense team would be nice, if only as a way to pass time when you don't have enough Stamina to do other stuff.

So, I decided to take my Horse Emblem team (Stahl, Bunny Xander, Reinhardt, Frederick) for one final run before this Arena team stops having any bonus units on it and I have to reshuffle it a bit...

And they did it. My first all-Advanced, all-deathless Arena run. I got 4,620 points (which somehow puts me at Rank 30,699, also the highest I've ever gotten) for this feat that somehow happened despite only getting the Bridge map and a couple of close calls (fortunately, Horse Emblem comes with 3 tanks and THUNDER'S FIST, so it really just came down to putting whoever had WTA in position to tank, buffing with Frederick and Stahl if possible, then watching the tanking and having Reinhardt annihilate people... really the only time I had a serious problem was one fight that had an Ursula, who probably would've fried any of my cavs on her attack... but then Reinhardt dropped her, and everything was easy from there). I'm gonna miss this team... though maybe I'll just train up my Gronnblade Cecilia a bit to replace Bunny Xander, since she's a bonus unit next season, and keep running Horse Emblem...

Oh right, Draw Back. I always get those two mixed up.

 

I just ran the damage calc, and jesus, L&D3 Attack Seal Kagerou kills 93 people. That's disgusting. My Azura also has Hone Atk, and when Kagerou has that buff it's 100 wins. This is over the top lol.

[Arcanite]

4 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

Correction. Drag Back has two versions. One as an utility skill, one as a B skill. One that drags your teammate back, and one that drags back your target after initiating.

My interpretation of Satsuma's Kagero is that she's scary against anything, and obliterates any infantry units.

Drag back is melee only and on enemies

Draw back is anyone and on teammates

They are 2 different things that do the same thing on different things

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

That's disgusting:

Spoiler

Fixed that for you ;)

Edited April 17, 2017 by Arcanite

[DehNutCase]

5 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

My interpretation of Satsuma's Kagero is that she's scary against anything, and obliterates any infantry units.

@ILikeKirbys Do not underestimate Kagero's 35 base Atk. Poison Dagger+ might have shitty MT, but she can 1RKO a fair amount of slow or fragile non-infantry even with Poison Dagger. 5 MT is only 2 less than a brave bow+, meaning anything Klein can 2HKO (L&D is 1 less than Death blow), Kagero can kill with a double. And that's a lot.

Edited April 17, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

@ILikeKirbys Do not underestimate Kagero's 35 base Atk. Poison Dagger+ might have shitty MT, but she can 1RKO a fair amount of slow or fragile non-infantry even with Poison Dagger. 5 MT is only 2 less than a brave bow+, meaning anything Klein can 2HKO (L&D is 1 less than Death blow), Kagero can kill with a double. And that's a lot.

My Kagerou is +Spd, so she's sitting pretty at 40 Spd. :D

[Lyrai]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My Kagerou is +Spd, so she's sitting pretty at 40 Spd. :D

My only saving grace against your Kagerou is a tanky unit that's not an infantry, or a TA raven unit. :)

 

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Drag back is melee only and on enemies

Draw back is anyone and on teammates

They are 2 different things that do the same thing on different things

Fixed that for you ;)

*rolls over and screams internally*

Kept getting it mixed up. Darn! XD

[DehNutCase]

9 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

My only saving grace against your Kagerou is a tanky unit that's not an infantry, or a TA raven unit. :)

 

*rolls over and screams internally*

Kept getting it mixed up. Darn! XD

Who would've thought giving two things that mean almost the same thing almost the same name would cause confusion?

 

Seriously, this is like those language design idiots who think making all colors have a single prefix, but a different suffix was a good idea. There's a reason blue sounds different from green. Imagine colors being loq, loc, lob etc. and trying to figure out which is which when spelled\pronounced.

Edited April 17, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Who would've thought giving two things that mean almost the same thing almost the same name would cause confusion?

 

Seriously, this is like those language design idiots who think making all colors have a single prefix, but a different suffix was a good idea. There's a reason blue sounds different from green.

In Japanese, Draw Back is 引き寄せ, while Reposition is 引き戻し. Better pay attention~

9 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

My only saving grace against your Kagerou is a tanky unit that's not an infantry, or a TA raven unit. :)

 

*rolls over and screams internally*

Kept getting it mixed up. Darn! XD

Yeah, pretty much. Apparently even a lot of horses and fliers die, though.

[Lyrai]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

In Japanese, Draw Back is 引き寄せ, while Reposition is 引き戻し. Better pay attention~

Yeah, pretty much. Apparently even a lot of horses and fliers die, though.

If you're referring to strong but squishy units, then yes, they do. My interpretation of your Kagero already sums it up :)

[Arcanite]

4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My Kagerou is +Spd, so she's sitting pretty at 40 Spd. :D

My +HP T-Adept Robin says "go ahead and get predicted"

Also my arena team:

Sharena (vanilla)

Nino +Atk -def (Iceberg desperation Fury)

Olivia (Vanilla but 4 star +2)

Lyn +Hp -Def (Brash assault Reposition)

You guys think Rally attack and Hine attack is redundant and I should switch rally attack with rally speed?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, Arcanite said:

My +HP T-Adept Robin says "go ahead and get predicted"

Also my arena team:

Sharena (vanilla)

Nino +Atk -def (Iceberg desperation Fury)

Olivia (Vanilla but 4 star +2)

Lyn +Hp -Def (Brash assault Reposition)

You guys think Rally attack and Hine attack is redundant and I should switch rally attack with rally speed?

Screw your T-Adept, I one shot everyone in your new team.

[Arcanite]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Screw your T-Adept, I one shot everyone in your new team.

Lol I knew you'd say that too XD

[Vaximillian]

Score of 4,768 is now rank 4,854. Won't be staying in top 5k, which is annoying because I still got no defence victories. 500 feathers down the drain.

Welp.

[DehNutCase]

6 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

If you're referring to strong but squishy units, then yes, they do. My interpretation of your Kagero already sums it up :)

Have you heard the news about our Lady and Savior, no-L&D Minerva? With Fury 3 her bulk and offenses are basically cheating.

[Rezzy]

I'm not sure about anyone else, but on most units I find Fury hurts my opponents more than it helps when I go up against them.  It's basically a free Poison Strike, if I play the ranged game right.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Have you heard the news about our Lady and Savior, no-L&D Minerva? With Fury 3 her bulk and offenses are basically cheating.

Pick ONE waifu man. You can't be fooling around with Minerva while you set up your Selena build.

@Rezzy Fury is usually more useful on player side, yeah.

Edited April 17, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[DehNutCase]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Pick ONE waifu man. You can't be fooling around with Minerva while you set up your Selena build.

I can like units without being in love with them.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

I can like units without being in love with them.

I've heard that one before...

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm not sure about anyone else, but on most units I find Fury hurts my opponents more than it helps when I go up against them.  It's basically a free Poison Strike, if I play the ranged game right.

That's cause the AI is stupid 

Us robots know what we're doing when we're using our teams. The AI is just moronic

@DehNutCase trying not to catch feelings 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Arcanite

[DehNutCase]

7 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm not sure about anyone else, but on most units I find Fury hurts my opponents more than it helps when I go up against them.  It's basically a free Poison Strike, if I play the ranged game right.

A free poison strike that's worse than the rank 1 version. (3 damage versus 4, due to def/res damage reduction).

A free poison strike that also gives 3 to speed, meaning even L&D would only secure doubles if you were 2 spd faster to begin with.

Edit: Fury 3 is strictly better than L&D 1, and L&D 1 is quite good as a skill.

Edited April 17, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Lyrai]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm not sure about anyone else, but on most units I find Fury hurts my opponents more than it helps when I go up against them.  It's basically a free Poison Strike, if I play the ranged game right.

That isn't the case for me, though. Fury units has caused my members to die in one hit where they survive otherwise, or survive a blow that was once a sure-kill. I've faced many losses against a full fury team :/

[DehNutCase]

6 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

That's cause the AI is stupid 

Us robots know what we're doing when we're using our teams. The AI is just moronic

@DehNutCase trying not to catch feelings 

I liked Minerva as a unit in heroes to begin with, she was one of my first 4 5*s. (Leo, Azura, Klein, and Minerva were my first 4.)

[Lyrai]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I liked Minerva as a unit in heroes to begin with, she was one of my first 4 5*s. (Leo, Azura, Klein, and Minerva were my first 4.)

Your 5* pulls are some of the best. You lucky dastard. :P

[ILikeKirbys]

45 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

@ILikeKirbys Do not underestimate Kagero's 35 base Atk. Poison Dagger+ might have shitty MT, but she can 1RKO a fair amount of slow or fragile non-infantry even with Poison Dagger. 5 MT is only 2 less than a brave bow+, meaning anything Klein can 2HKO (L&D is 1 less than Death blow), Kagero can kill with a double. And that's a lot.

Is that so? I suppose that makes sense, haha. I forgot that fragile units would probably lose to Kagero because I've been running 3 cavalry tanks and Reinhardt, the former of which don't care about Kagero's 40 ATK because their DEF is in the upper 30s so she's barely scratching them (if she's even scratching them at all, which she might not be after Fortify Cavalry) and the latter of which drops THUNDER'S FIST on her before she gets to do anything (I don't care how much you buff her RES, Kagero isn't surviving two consecutive hits of Dire Thunder after Hone Cavalry and Death Blow 2... hell, I doubt she's surviving one hit from that if you're running Life and Death on her. And I'm about to add +DEF Gronnblade Cecilia to my team too, who I'm pretty sure also beats Kagero if she gets buffed even if Kagero initiates, so I really only have to worry that she'll attack Reinhardt since she'll double him), so I haven't had to deal with how horrifying she can be to a more fragile (or all-infantry) team.

44 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My Kagerou is +Spd, so she's sitting pretty at 40 Spd. :D

Hey, my Kagero is +SPD too! Maybe I'll stick Life and Death 3 on her if I ever pull another Jaffar!
-HP sucks tho, 28 HP is a tiny amount, and I can't see her taking a hit and living after Life and Death 3 hits her already-not-so-great defenses (well, maybe from a mage...).

23 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

My +HP T-Adept Robin says "go ahead and get predicted"

Also my arena team:

Sharena (vanilla)

Nino +Atk -def (Iceberg desperation Fury)

Olivia (Vanilla but 4 star +2)

Lyn +Hp -Def (Brash assault Reposition)

You guys think Rally attack and Hine attack is redundant and I should switch rally attack with rally speed?

I say you should go with Rally Speed, since you don't have a Hone Speed on that team. Plus it lets you always have a maximum of 3 +4 buffs on Nino, which is very good since it gives Gronnblade even more power.

19 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Have you heard the news about our Lady and Savior, no-L&D Minerva? With Fury 3 her bulk and offenses are basically cheating.

Klein says hi. And then he shoots you twice with a Brave Bow+ and Death Blow, and Minerva crashes to the ground and dies. Minerva doesn't have the DEF to survive that even with Fury, even -ATK Klein vs +DEF Fury 3 Minerva ends with a dead Minerva.

Seriously tho, I really wish I had a Klein... Dude's scary when I see him in the Arena, he and Kagero were the main reasons I couldn't go deathless until the last run, and even there I was legitimately worried when I saw a Klein in an early match and couldn't easily reach him with Reinhardt. Anyone know a good way to deal with Klein without having Reinhardt nuke him off the map?

And I agree with Lyrai, you're really lucky with your 5-Star pulls, mate.

One of these days I won't take half an hour to write a post

Edited April 17, 2017 by ILikeKirbys

[DehNutCase]

3 minutes ago, Lyrai said:

Your 5* pulls are some of the best. You lucky dastard. :P

You should see my other lineup.

 

Anyway, I don't have luck, I have a lot of dice. I started the re-roll train almost immediately after learning how it worked, and took a few days rerolling for a line-up I liked. Even now I do some 'casual' rerolls when I'm bored in case one of them gets absurd luck.

Edited April 17, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Hey, my Kagero is +SPD too! Maybe I'll stick Life and Death 3 on her if I ever pull another Jaffar!
-HP sucks tho, 28 HP is a tiny amount, and I can't see her taking a hit and living after Life and Death 3 hits her already-not-so-great defenses (well, maybe from a mage...).

Mine is -Def, so we're preeetty much in the same boat. I ran the numbers and -Def performs slightly better. Apparently -Res leads to the best survivability overall.