Characters Whose Stats Don't Match Their Stats in Their Game

[ARGHETH]

3 hours ago, BANRYU said:

For me, Oboro is a big standout in this regard. I remember Oboro being a typical example of playable lancers/soldiers-- balanced overall and with good HP. In Heroes she's a friggin' tank, built like a Knight in everything but name. And the Heavy Spear is such a WEIRD choice of weapon for her; it looks so off for her compared to the armored/cavalry units, and doesn't suit the spearfighter fighting style at all lmao. I won't knock her good Attack and HP stats, and low Res is okay, but IMO her Speed and Defense should have been leveled out more between one another lol. Don't get me wrong, she's a good tank, has made a decent stand-in for Effie for me since I haven't pulled her, but jeez. Not how I remember her playing in Fates at ALL. Hinata is similar to SOME degree, but I remember him at least having good defense for a samurai/myrmidon, so his build made SOMEwhat more sense to me.

Agree somewhat about Florina as well... I can only assume that they built her the way they did to set her apart form the other speedy/high-res Peg Knights (since most of the ones in Heroes are more or less built the same in each of their respective appearances IIRC). Oboro though....?? Just... handled so strange....

Really? I always found Oboro rather tanky when I played Birthright...her base Defense growth rate in Fates is the same as Silas and Beruka, though her HP is a lot lower.

She has a bit more defense in Heroes than in Fates, but she doesn't seem that bad in general.

Edited March 6, 2017 by ARGHETH

[Sartek]

10 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Sephiran still beats him out for being alive at the end of Radiant Dawn, whereas Athos kicked the bucket at the end of Blazing Blade.

True, and I wasn't contesting, it was just nitpicking. And Sephiran himself is certainly beaten by the likes of Gotoh or Bantu

Edited March 6, 2017 by Sartek

[Iris]

6 hours ago, Refa said:

Considering FE4 WAS Horse Emblem, it is better representative of the game if he was a mount.  I would be perfectly fine with Seliph being a footie sword user IF Sigurd was in the game as a mount instead; however, for whatever reason Sigurd is not nearly as well represented as his son is.

But Celice is the ONLY character in FE4 that can dismount! Surely, that must mean something . . . 

> Source: Designer's Notes

Q: Is there any special meaning behind Celice’s ability to dismount?

A: The reason for that is a simple one that I’m a little embarrassed about, which is for “aesthetic purposes”. At the beginning, we guessed there would be many female fans who see Leaf, for example, and think “he looks so handsome in battle, I don’t want to promote him!”. Originally, we wanted every mounted character to have the option of dismounting like in Mystery of the Emblem. However, because of space issues we had to give this idea up, so in the end only Celice’s dismounting option was kept.

[FrostyFireMage]

I wouldn't be surprised if they released another version of Seliph who was mounted

Gacha games like this have a tendency to do that

[MaskedAmpharos]

51 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they released another version of Seliph who was mounted

Gacha games like this have a tendency to do that

I do expect them to eventually cycle back to doing new versions of characters already in the game, but I don't expect that to happen for a while. The Fire Emblem universe has an enormous cast of characters, and a lot of people are going to be upset if we start getting 2nd or 3rd versions of existing chars before their faves are added in even for the first time.

[Eselred]

9 hours ago, immatx said:

XDXDXD

But it makes you wonder, will Marcus be a god?! o_0

To be true to the source material, FE7 Marcus should be able to solo everything in Heroes, and FE6 Marcus should have like no growths.  Honestly, outside of IKE, Marcus is one of the characters I am most looking forward to in Heroes.

 

10 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

How could I forget to bring up Jagen? Pretty much useless outside of being a wall or an emergency button on higher difficulties in Shadow Dragon, and surprisingly useful with his good attack, resistance and defense in Heroes.

 

I have a 3* Jagen, and he is surprisingly good in Heroes.  He's kind of slow, but he is on a horse and has decent stats (especially RES).  Fury on Jagen though is like...what is this I don't even.  I leave it unequipped most of the time, because even getting dinged for 0 triggers Fury damage.  If feathers weren't such a scarce resource in Heroes, I'd definitely promote him to 4*.

 

10 hours ago, Dylan Corona said:

I'm with you on the Florina, thing. She was one of my top units in FE7, and I love using her, cause she's cute and Lyn's bff. But in Heroes, she really takes a bit of a dive. It took me forever to get her too, so I'm very disappointed. I mean, she can get some kills, but rarely, unless its to finish someone off.

Florina is bad in Heroes.  Rather slow (WTF?), hits like a wet noodle and has the durability of a paper bag.  It's tough to use her even on the lower tiers of the tower.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Eselred

[Rezzy]

54 minutes ago, Eselred said:

To be true to the source material, FE7 Marcus should be able to solo everything in Heroes, and FE6 Marcus should have like no growths.  Honestly, outside of IKE, Marcus is one of the characters I am most looking forward to in Heroes.

 

I have a 3* Jagen, and he is surprisingly good in Heroes.  He's kind of slow, but he is on a horse and has decent stats (especially RES).  Fury on Jagen though is like...what is this I don't even.  I leave it unequipped most of the time, because even getting dinged for 0 triggers Fury damage.  If feathers weren't such a scarce resource in Heroes, I'd definitely promote him to 4*.

 

Florina is bad in Heroes.  Rather slow (WTF?), hits like a wet noodle and has the durability of a paper bag.  It's tough to use her even on the lower tiers of the tower.

I hope we get Old Marcus.  I like my Jeigans to be very Jeigany.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

I hope we get Old Marcus.  I like my Jeigans to be very Jeigany.

Old Marcus, Jagen, Gunter, who'll be the fourth on Team Jeigan? New Mystery Arran?

[Rezzy]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

Old Marcus, Jagen, Gunter, who'll be the fourth on Team Jeigan? New Mystery Arran?

Arran's not Old enough.  He looks like he's in his 20s or 30s.  He's just sickly.  We could even do FE6 and FE7 Marcus if we needed to have just Jeigans and not Old Men.

[Vaximillian]

3 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Arran's not Old enough.  He looks like he's in his 20s or 30s.  He's just sickly.  We could even do FE6 and FE7 Marcus if we needed to have just Jeigans and not Old Men.

Nah, two of the same character is cheap. Marcus is still Marcus, twenty years earlier or later.

[Extrasolar]

5 hours ago, Iris said:

But Celice is the ONLY character in FE4 that can dismount! Surely, that must mean something . . . 

> Source: Designer's Notes

Q: Is there any special meaning behind Celice’s ability to dismount?

A: The reason for that is a simple one that I’m a little embarrassed about, which is for “aesthetic purposes”. At the beginning, we guessed there would be many female fans who see Leaf, for example, and think “he looks so handsome in battle, I don’t want to promote him!”. Originally, we wanted every mounted character to have the option of dismounting like in Mystery of the Emblem. However, because of space issues we had to give this idea up, so in the end only Celice’s dismounting option was kept.

"He looks so handsome in battle..." Uh, sure, for a bunch of faceless pixels, I guess?

Seriously, are there people who think sprites are physically attractive? Lol. I know that (good) 3D wasn't really a thing at the time, but geez.

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

"He looks so handsome in battle..." Uh, sure, for a bunch of faceless pixels, I guess?

Seriously, are there people who think sprites are physically attractive? Lol. I know that (good) 3D wasn't really a thing at the time, but geez.

Yeah, that was one of the silliest things I've read in a while.  Back in the day when we had game manuals, I liked some of the art in those, but SNES graphics never exactly got my heart aflutter.

[Eselred]

47 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Arran's not Old enough.  He looks like he's in his 20s or 30s.  He's just sickly.  We could even do FE6 and FE7 Marcus if we needed to have just Jeigans and not Old Men.

My broken Jeigan Dream Team:

FE7 Marcus, Frederick, Seth, FE9 Titania

Honorable mention to Pent

Make it happen, IS!

[Vaximillian]

33 minutes ago, Eselred said:

FE7 Marcus, Frederick, Seth, FE9 Titania

FE7 Marcus, Seth, and Titania aren't straight Jeigans though. Replace Frederick with Oifey for Team Oifey.
That moustache shall bring you many a victory!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Vaximillian

[Eselred]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

FE7 Marcus, Seth, and Titania aren't straight Jeigans though. Replace Frederick with Oifey for Team Oifey.
That moustache shall bring you many a victory!

We can debate on the definition of a Jeigan VS an Oifay, but the fact is they are pre-promotes you get at the beginning of the game.  Technically nobody I can think of has terrible Jagen growths except Jagen, FE12 Arran and I think FE6 Marcus.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, because if FE7 Marcus gets released in Heroes, I shall solo Lunatic and Advanced Arena with him!  Gotta stay true to the source material 

[Rezzy]

26 minutes ago, Eselred said:

We can debate on the definition of a Jeigan VS an Oifay, but the fact is they are pre-promotes you get at the beginning of the game.  Technically nobody I can think of has terrible Jagen growths except Jagen, FE12 Arran and I think FE6 Marcus.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, because if FE7 Marcus gets released in Heroes, I shall solo Lunatic and Advanced Arena with him!  Gotta stay true to the source material 

Gunter has some pretty crummy growths as well.

[Extrasolar]

4 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Gunter has some pretty crummy growths as well.

 

4 hours ago, Eselred said:

We can debate on the definition of a Jeigan VS an Oifay, but the fact is they are pre-promotes you get at the beginning of the game.  Technically nobody I can think of has terrible Jagen growths except Jagen, FE12 Arran and I think FE6 Marcus.

Aren't Jagens meant to be completely useless past a certain point, while Oifeys are alright, but don't compare to the other units (i.e., Frederick). Titania is just a great unit in general, even if she's a pre-promote, and doesn't fall off...

Jagens in Fates are weird; I've seen arguments that the Jakob/Felicia (whichever one joins Corrin early) are the Jagens of that game, considering they start more or less able to destroy everything with their base stats, but become essentially staffbots past a certain point in the game after their damage and physical defense fall off (speaking without reclassing being involved at all).

I've seen people say Gunter remains okay if used (never used him, so I can't speak on this point), but the general Oifey/Jagen divide remains a little muddled. We're getting into the territory of creating a new topic to talk about this, so I'll stop.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Eselred]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Gunter has some pretty crummy growths as well.

Yah that's true, but depending on the path, he's not really a Jeigan so to speak because he's not around.  Fates is weird like that.

So, our old man Jeigan team could be:

FE6 Marcus, Jagen, Gunter and...Athos?

[Vaximillian]

@Eselred, Athos is no Jeigan, he's a Gotoh; a very powerful latecomer, something that TV Tropes calls eleventh hour ranger.

[MaskedAmpharos]

4 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

 

Aren't Jagens meant to be completely useless past a certain point, while Oifeys are alright, but don't compare to the other units (i.e., Frederick). Titania is just a great unit in general, even if she's a pre-promote, and doesn't fall off...

Jagens in Fates are weird; I've seen argument that the Jakob/Felicia (whichever one joins Corrin early) are the Jagens of that game, considering they start more or less able to destroy everything with their base stats, but become essentially staffbots past a certain point in the game after their damage and physical defense fall off (speaking without reclassing being involved at all).

I've seen people say Gunter remains okay if used (never used him, so I can't speak on this point), but the general Oifey/Jagen divide remains a little muddled. We're getting into the territory of creating a new topic to talk about this, so I'll stop.

Idk where you heard this, but I most certainly wouldn't consider the maid/butler characters to be Jagens. That's pretty obviously Gunter. 

I can't speak for Jakob, but Felicia's the exact opposite of a Jagen. At least in my personal experience, she starts off with pretty pathetic damage and is really only a staffbot until you get the Flame Shurikens at which point she becomes one of the best damage dealers on your team.

[BANRYU]

12 hours ago, ARGHETH said:

Really? I always found Oboro rather tanky when I played Birthright...her base Defense growth rate in Fates is the same as Silas and Beruka, though her HP is a lot lower.

She has a bit more defense in Heroes than in Fates, but she doesn't seem that bad in general.

I mean... maybe you're right...?? I could be remembering her wrong lol ;; I know she could take a hit pretty good, just thought she was more balanced or even kinda speedy as well...?? I mean don't get me wrong she's definitely pretty good for what she is in Heroes lol.

Maybe I'm thrown off by her weapon as well... Heavy Spear is a really unfitting weapon for her IMO

[Jave]

11 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

"He looks so handsome in battle..." Uh, sure, for a bunch of faceless pixels, I guess?

Seriously, are there people who think sprites are physically attractive? Lol. I know that (good) 3D wasn't really a thing at the time, but geez.

*Raises hand*

Well, not PHYSICALLY attractive, but I don't think that's what the designer's notes were going for.

And I see this discussion of a team of old men and nobody has mentioned Yodel? Children, I am dissapoint.

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, Jave said:

*Raises hand*

Well, not PHYSICALLY attractive, but I don't think that's what the designer's notes were going for.

Wait... Not physically attractive? What do you mean? You just like the sprite artwork itself?

[eclipse]

. . .and back to the topic at hand!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Florina was already mentioned, she's known for speed in FE7 and yet she's so slow here. To be fair, if you gave her a Heavy Spear in FE7 she'd be kinda sluggish there too. I know that a lot of this has to do with giving fliers and mounted units lower stats in Heroes, compared to their original games. Which, don't get me wrong, is a good balance choice objectively (though I wish such characters didn't get scored lower in the arena...).

Takumi also comes to mind. He's below average speed in Birthright and not terribly hard to double as a boss in Conquest, yet for some reason he gets loads of speed in Heroes, enough that he actually avoids being doubled by the likes of Lyn or Eirika (on equal footing). This is a huge part of why he's too strong in FEH; if you shuffled a few speed points into HP he'd be much more like his original self and much more balanced.

Similarly, Linde. Why on earth is she faster than Caeda? And on the note of Caeda, why does the wielder of the Wing Spear, the only Prf lance, get stuck with a sword?