Do FE games encourage you to use whoever you like to use?

[Shadow Mir]

20 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Seeing as I found a way to make Vika a viable option, I'm sure you could do the same for Tormod.

Outside of easy mode? Not really.

[NinjaMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Outside of easy mode? Not really.

Since when did I state that you could do it on Hard or Normal mode, exactly?

[MediocreLee]

I've always played Fire Emblem in a way that I just play with whoever I want.  Honestly, there's no point in limiting your choices in a game like Fire Emblem.  Nothing and no one will stop me from using Pelleas in Radiant Dawn or Elincia in Path of Radiance.  I don't tend to look at each character's stat growths too in depth, I just get curious.  Of course, most people base which characters they like depending on how those specific characters have performed for them.

[Shadow Mir]

50 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Since when did I state that you could do it on Hard or Normal mode, exactly?

You didn't, but to be fair, because easy mode has crazy exp gain, even Lyre, the worst unit in the game, is usable on easy mode.

[NinjaMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You didn't, but to be fair, because easy mode has crazy exp gain, even Lyre, the worst unit in the game, is usable on easy mode.

Lyre is far more usable than Gareth is, in my opinion.

Edited May 9, 2017 by NinjaMonkey

[Extrasolar]

Well, this is kind of complex answer. If we're talking "can I use this unit and be successful in the game, just because I like their character, despite the fact that are a supbar unit mechanically?" then the answer is a soft 'no.' Of course, you can use pretty much anyone in any game, with enough investment, struggle, tears and sweat, and it all depends on how far you're willing to go to make a unit you personally like viable/usable, and how much frustration you're willing to put up with.

I say soft no rather than hard no because if we're talking the rule that the player will, unless purposefully challenging themselves, use what is easiest/most effective, it's the statistically better units that generally see repeated and consistent use, and make the game easiest to win.

Of course, part of it is that I (and lots of others) tend to like units that perform well in battle alongside character personality, so it kind of wraps around that way. There are exceptions -- I will always despise Camilla, no matter how good a unit she is, for example. I still use her simply because of her stats.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Lyre is far more usable than Gareth is, in my opinion.

The issue that Lyre has is that her bases are pretty awful (her base attack is the same as Mist... and that's in her transformed state). She's also a cat, the worst class in the game. And that's ignoring the general laguz problems.

[Thor Odinson]

Varies by FE and difficulty for me. In most cases I can make anyone work if I commit enough effort and favoritism in, even if they suck, and I will likely play shittier as a result, but it's technically doable even on most Hard/Lunatics. However, FE12 Lunatic has a majority of the cast after a certain point not even viable with heavy favoritism. I've never done Maniac, but everyone's at least usable in Hard if you try (whether or not they're worth it is a totally separate thing). In Lunatic mid-lategame enemy stat scalings completely outstrip players joining bases to a degree that a newly joined player character is likely to just die to every enemy that can do damage, which causes problems.

[Slumber]

Really depends on the game and the units.

[Jedi]

Considering most FE's are incredibly easy on their base difficulties, yes.

[Baldrick]

I've yet to play a game that doesn't give you the opportunity to turn anyone that can use the attack command into a badass.

[Locke087]

They don't encourage you to some of time... But they do let you use whatever you please, they just don't always reward you for doing so very well... FE 7, 8, 9,13, and 14 ( though Conquest will punish you hard for some of your choices) especially will let you use anyone at all and they will be mostly rewarding to use. 

Sophia, Arden and so much more can be used even on the highest difficulty if you put your mind to it. Just doing so qualifies as a challenge run of sorts for some units, especially some units in FE 10-12 that qualify as active handicaps.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Locke087

[Harvey]

20 hours ago, Enaluxeme said:

FE6 - Some units can't stay relevant through the whole game, sadly. Maybe with stat-boosts? Also, Sophia...

This is the main reason why I made this thread. I'm playing this on normal mode and I'm currently stuck on 10b..its like the game WANTS me to use Shanna/Thany for this one if at all I decided to not use her.

 

[Refa]

Nope.  In most FE games, you can use whoever you want, but most of the games sure as hell don't incentivize you to use anyone other than the best units.  Exceptions would be uh...FE4 because you can use everyone and the children mechanic, FE5 because of fatigue, and das it.

[Cute Chao]

I think FE5 does... since it 'encourages' you to use everyone xD

I honestly use every character I like, although I don't tend to play on hard modes or challenge myself. I play for characters and story, for the most part. I'm terrible at strategy and play the game in a way I like to have fun. Not sure who even counts as bad, but I've never not used a unit I liked :)

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 2017-05-09 at 11:03 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Outside of easy mode? Not really.

 

I've made Vika viable on Hard Mode. Never underestimate what saving Bonus Exp and giving someone massive kill favouritism can do. It's not optimum or efficient, but it's virtually always an option if a player really wants to do it.

[ping]

Out of the games I've played (6-12), I'd say that Path of Radiance is the only one that really encouraged me to use sub-par units. While it's still a lot more effective to pump most of the BEXP into units like Marcia or Jill, it's still not a big deal to channel off a few points to give underleveled units the boost they need. Even Rolf, who I'd say is the worst unit in the game, really doesn't take much effort to become self-sustaining. In that regard, I really like the BEXP mechanism.

Other than that, Sacred Stones is the most obvious suspect, what with the unlimited and safe grinding, but some units (Amelia, L'Arachel and Marisa come to mind) are still a bit tedious to bring up to speed.

That said, most games encourage the player to use different units on subsequent playthroughs through unlockable supports or base conversations. Like, in FE12, there is really very little point in using {growth unit that joins after chapter 6 or so} unless you like their mug and/or want to unlock their convos with Kris or some other playable character.

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I've made Vika viable on Hard Mode. Never underestimate what saving Bonus Exp and giving someone massive kill favouritism can do. It's not optimum or efficient, but it's virtually always an option if a player really wants to do it.

Maybe, but tbf, that chapter's more than annoying enough because I have to babysit two deadweight units that barely tickle the enemy, never mind trying to get said deadweight to a usable state for endgame.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[AliasZ]

You can make almost any unit useable with stat boosters and exp favoritism. I wouldn't say there's any units that are flat out unusable but in a game like FE6 there's quite a few units that come pretty damn close. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe, but tbf, that chapter's more than annoying enough because I have to babysit two deadweight units that barely tickle the enemy, never mind trying to get said deadweight to a usable state for endgame.

Who said anything about two? I wasn't proposing raising more than one of the trio at once. Although I'm sure you could and it probably wouldn't be as bad as you think, since as long as you avoid the gauntlet at the top there are loads of safe spaces to place your units as you train them. Heck, Vika even has canto to get back to them. And Tormod can abuse ledges. Muarim has no tricks but he's the best of the trio at base... just also has the least payoff since tigers suck in endgame.

But yeah Radiant Dawn units aren't that hard to raise with extreme favouritism to many other games. Bonus exp exists, and in the specific case of laguz, stat boosters count for double which makes a huge difference.

[Shadow Mir]

On May 12, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Who said anything about two? I wasn't proposing raising more than one of the trio at once. Although I'm sure you could and it probably wouldn't be as bad as you think, since as long as you avoid the gauntlet at the top there are loads of safe spaces to place your units as you train them. Heck, Vika even has canto to get back to them. And Tormod can abuse ledges. Muarim has no tricks but he's the best of the trio at base... just also has the least payoff since tigers suck in endgame.

But yeah Radiant Dawn units aren't that hard to raise with extreme favouritism to many other games. Bonus exp exists, and in the specific case of laguz, stat boosters count for double which makes a huge difference.

That's not what I meant - I meant making sure they survive. Also, Vika can only attack archers and staff toting bishops safely - most everything else has a chance to instakill her, not to mention she does crap damage to non-mages. Tormod doesn't have it much better. And it ain't like there's such a thing as a Fire Emblem equivalent of False Swipe.

Sure, laguz get double the effect from stat boosters... In theory, that is. In actual practice, their needing to transform, as well as losing player phases to olivi grass (because laguz practically have an innate Provoke built in) means that advantage is diminished, if not undone entirely. And BEXP only gives 3 stats when leveling up.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And it ain't like there's such a thing as a Fire Emblem equivalent of False Swipe.

This would be a great skill for the early game premmie to have right off the bat.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The skill does exist and is in Radiant Dawn even, it's just not available on that particular map...

 

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That's not what I meant - I meant making sure they survive.

Um, no offence intended here, but making sure the LEA survive the map is absolutely trivial unless you brought a very weak team on Ike's route. As I said, there are many safe spaces on the map. It's getting them exp that takes effort.

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Also, Vika can only attack archers and staff toting bishops safely - most everything else has a chance to instakill her, not to mention she does crap damage to non-mages.

Fortune exists, though you have to choose between that and Paragon. I no longer recall which I used. Probably Paragon since it's not terribly hard to weaken enemies for her to finish off. She's accurate at least, which is more than I can say for some underlevelled units you may wish to level, in RD and other games.

[bethany81707]

45 minutes ago, Slumber said:

This would be a great skill for the early game premmie to have right off the bat.

I actually had a story concept that gave the early game prepromote bows and Paragon, which probably helps. I'm using Klein to train Heroes units using the same concept.

Though, as pointed out, Elincia comes with False Swipe at the worst possible time.

[bethany81707]

45 minutes ago, Slumber said:

This would be a great skill for the early game premmie to have right off the bat.

I actually had a story concept that gave the early game prepromote bows and Paragon, which probably helps. I'm using Klein to train Heroes units using the same concept.

Though, as pointed out, Elincia comes with False Swipe at the worst possible time.