What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

You know what? That's why threads like this exist. To offer different, even unpopular opinions. You obviously have a different opinion and that's perfectly fine. Good on you for thinking independently. I simply disagree.

and here we go. this is gonna sound blunt but you can't hide behind the opinion card for everything. Your opinion is not a shield for making a poor argument. I'm not chastising you for having an opinion. I said it was fine if you didn't like fanservice but what angers me is when you say "it doesn't belong" because to me that's just narrowminded if you ask me. Authors can write their stories however they want. There are no absolute rules in regards to storytelling and it makes me angry when people say that there is. There is no 'right' way to tell a story so stop trying to arbitrarily push rules onto a story that had no intention of following them. I know I'm sounding a bit harsh and ranty here and I'm sorry for that but I just hate it  when people try to criticize stories for not pandering to their specific set of tastes. This is not your story. It's the authors and again, they can write their story however they damn well please. No author is obligated to pander to you so stop with this "doesn't belong" nonsense. It's just counter intuitive.

[Lightcosmo]

2 hours ago, Ottservia said:

What’s wrong with sexy character design? 

I think this depends on how seriously they write said characters because of stuff like that. I dont think it's bad unless they constantly joke off about it.

Edited July 13, 2020 by lightcosmo

[null]

Just now, Ottservia said:

and here we go. this is gonna sound blunt but you can't hide behind the opinion card for everything. Your opinion is not a shield for making a poor argument. I'm not chastising you for having an opinion. I said it was fine if you didn't like fanservice but what angers me is when you say "it doesn't belong" because to me that's just narrowminded if you ask me. Authors can write their stories however they want. There are no absolute rules in regards to storytelling and it makes me angry when people say that there is. There is no 'right' way to tell a story so stop trying to arbitrarily push rules onto a story that had no intention of following them. I know I'm sounding a bit harsh and ranty here and I'm sorry for that but I just hate it  when people try to criticize stories for not pandering to their specific set of tastes. This is not your story. It's the authors and again, they can write their story however they damn well please. No author is obligated to pander to you so stop with this "doesn't belong" nonsense. It's just counter intuitive.

Then let me rephrase my statement, because posting in an opinion thread didn't make it clear enough the first time. I personally don't think that it belongs in a series like FE.

I am nobody to tell the writers how to write or designers how to design their characters, but this is an opinion thread and I am perfectly entitled to express that opinion free from being roasted by someone who apparently can't tolerate another's opinion that differs from his own.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Fanservice is shallow teasing.

9 hours ago, Benice said:

axeurate

You're right but I hate you.

41 minutes ago, Jotari said:

mono single tier axes users suffer very heavily in FE6 for being very unreliable

True, but it just goes to show that the problem is more with Ward and Lott than it is the axes themselves.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Fanservice is shallow teasing.

You're right but I hate you.

True, but it just goes to show that the problem is more with Ward and Lott than it is the axes themselves.

Geese and Gonzales aren't  much better. in fact, though I've never tried it, I could see an argument that Elphin route Gonzales starting at a higher level is a buff considering you can promote him right away. Though then that gets into promotion item competition which is a serious consideration in FE6 (in either case both versions of Gonzales having different levels but the same bases is bizzare and uncalled for).

[Ottservia]

 

20 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Then let me rephrase my statement, because posting in an opinion thread didn't make it clear enough the first time. I personally don't think that it belongs in a series like FE.

I am nobody to tell the writers how to write or designers how to design their characters, but this is an opinion thread and I am perfectly entitled to express that opinion free from being roasted by someone who apparently can't tolerate another's opinion that differs from his own.

if this is genuinely what you mean why word it like that. There's a difference between saying "I personally don't like seeing this in stories" and saying "this thing I don't like doesn't belong in stories". You see the difference? It's not the opinion it's the phrasing. The ladder phrase is just far more arrogant sounding to me. It's like yeah this story has this thing you don't like but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. It has every right to be there regardless of how you personally feel about it. It doesn't matter if you feel it belongs or not it does belong because the author wanted it there. Just because you don't like it that doesn't mean it doesn't belong and that's what bothers me. Why do you have to phrase it that way. Why do you have to phrase it in way that sounds condescending to the authors who go against that opinion? It's fine to have an opinion. I never once said you have to agree with me regarding fanservice. I'm just saying don't phrase your opinion in a way that sounds condescending. To say "it doesn't belong" is to imply that it shouldn't exist and that no author who writes that kind of story should use it. Which I simply cannot agree with because that implies there is a wrong way to write that kind of story which is something I simply can't agree with. There are so many ways to tell all kinds of stories. there is no 'correct' or 'incorrect' way to tell story. to say an aspect of storytelling 'doesn't belong' is to imply that there is an 'incorrect' way of telling stories which is just no. 

An opinion is not a shield for poor argument and reasoning. it's not the opinion that bothers me. It's the reasoning behind it and how you word it. if you're going to state an opinion do not try to frame it like an actual argument or don't try to phrase it like it's some kind of fact for lack of a better term. You're phrasing the opinion in a way that sounds objective when it isn't and that's what bothers me. Don't like fanservice? fine people have different tastes and I'm not gonna argue on that point but don't say it "doesn't belong" because that's just wrong and arrogant sounding if you ask me

[null]

5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

 

if this is genuinely what you mean why word it like that. There's a difference between saying "I personally don't like seeing this in stories" and saying "this thing I don't like doesn't belong in stories". You see the difference? It's not the opinion it's the phrasing. The ladder phrase is just far more arrogant sounding to me. It's like yeah this story has this thing you don't like but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. It has every right to be there regardless of how you personally feel about it. It doesn't matter if you feel it belongs or not it does belong because the author wanted it there. Just because you don't like it that doesn't mean it doesn't belong and that's what bothers me. Why do you have to phrase it that way. Why do you have to phrase it in way that sounds condescending to the authors who go against that opinion? It's fine to have an opinion. I never once said you have to agree with me regarding fanservice. I'm just saying don't phrase your opinion in a way that sounds condescending. To say "it doesn't belong" is to imply that it shouldn't exist and that no author who writes that kind of story should use it. Which I simply cannot agree with because that implies there is a wrong way to write that kind of story which is something I simply can't agree with. There are so many ways to tell all kinds of stories. there is no 'correct' or 'incorrect' way to tell story. to say an aspect of storytelling 'doesn't belong' is to imply that there is an 'incorrect' way of telling stories which is just no. 

An opinion is not a shield for poor argument and reasoning. it's not the opinion that bothers me. It's the reasoning behind it and how you word it. if you're going to state an opinion do not try to frame it like an actual argument or don't try to phrase it like it's some kind of fact for lack of a better term. You're phrasing the opinion in a way that sounds objective when it isn't and that's what bothers me. Don't like fanservice? fine people have different tastes and I'm not gonna argue on that point but don't say it "doesn't belong" because that's just wrong and arrogant sounding if you ask me

The very fact that I posted my original comment in an opinion thread implies that what I said was strictly my opinion, regardless of phrasing. There was nothing condescending about it in intent or phrasing. Different strokes for different folks, y’know? You like fanservice? Good. I don’t? Good. You do you and let me do me.

[Benice]

55 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

You're right but I hate you.

Gotta give credit to my boy The Roger the Paladin for that one.

55 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

True, but it just goes to show that the problem is more with Ward and Lott than it is the axes themselves.

But in optimal play, like how I play, you get an A-support between the two by chapter 7 so that Lot gets a +15 to his hit.

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

and here we go. this is gonna sound blunt but you can't hide behind the opinion card for everything.

I mean, all he's saying is that he doesn't like fanservice in FE. He's not telling you that you're wrong or that he's right.

[Ottservia]

18 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

The very fact that I posted my original comment in an opinion thread implies that what I said was strictly my opinion, regardless of phrasing. There was nothing condescending about it in intent or phrasing. Different strokes for different folks, y’know? You like fanservice? Good. I don’t? Good. You do you and let me do me.

Even if that was not your intention, the implication is still there. If you don’t like something you don’t like something. I’m not gonna argue with you on that. What I will argue with is you saying something doesn’t belong because I simply cannot agree with that phrasing. You simply not liking something I like is not the issue here. It’s one thing to say you don’t like something. It’s another thing entirely to say something shouldn’t exist. You said the ladder not the former. I don’t like horror movies but I’m not gonna say they don’t belong in movie theatres because no that’s a dumb thing to say. 
 

you may not mean to say it but the phrase carries that implication. You saying fanservice does no good for the series is not a purely subjective statement that you think it is. For one, it’s not true regardless of your opinion on the matter because it objectively has done good for the series in terms of sales. And secondly, just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean I can’t challenge it or argue against it. Like if you make a faulty claim, I’m allowed to contest it. The opinion card only really goes so far. Again there’s a difference between saying something shouldn’t exist vs simply saying you don’t like it. One is purely based in personal preference while the other implies a level of objectivity and can be criticized. 
 

I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion. I’m just saying if you’re gonna state an opinion and try to rationalize it with objective sounding claims then I’m allowed to criticize your reasoning and even opinion for being poor.

[Samz707]

9 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Ah yes because we all know that fanservice is the root of all evil and that any character showing even the slightest amount of skin or cleavage should cover up immediately. How dare the developers want to make visually attractive character designs for their audience that has nothing to do with the overall quality of the writing. I apologize for the blunt sarcasm but I am so tired of hearing this argument. 
 

I honest to god see nothing wrong with fanservice so long as it’s implemented diageticallu and isn’t too intrusive. What’s wrong with sexy character design? What’s wrong with characters going to the beach as an excuse to show them off in sexy swimsuits? I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it. I mean fair if you don’t like it but I hate when people say it “doesn’t belong in a serious story”. Frankly, I find that way of criticizing story telling a little narrow minded. There are plenty of dark and serious stories that have plenty of fanservice like the fate franchise, The Persona series, one piece, death parade, and code geass just to name a few. So what if these stories know how to have a little fun and give the audience something to gawk at every once in a while. That doesn’t make these stories any less well written or any less serious than they are. Persona 5 centers on themes on reforming the worst society has to offer from a sexually abusive teacher to a corrupt and murderous politician and it still has enough room for multiple beach scenes and none of them at all take away from the severity and weight of the situations the characters find themselves in. 

There's someone like Sonya, showing a bit of skin, then you have pretty much most of the Fates/Awakening designs, such as Charlotte, who has basically no meaningful armor on despite being an axe class who gets up close and personal, it pretty much makes it seem like the female characters were made to be sexual first such as Tharja. (Robin even outright says she has the best body of the Shepards in the original Japanese version for crying out loud.)

It's kinda cringy and makes it feel even more like Fire Emblem is trying to be a Waifu Simulator, in addition to the implications of having highly sexual character designs, some of which resemble/act like children, in a game sold to 12 year olds. (Since that's the age rating of Fire Emblem over in Europe.)

So yeah they look awful generally, some of them look straight out of porn and personally I'd rather everyone actually wore armor properly instead of wearing only some on their shoulders/legs like Charlotte with their entire body exposed.

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Samz707

[null]

5 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Even if that was not your intention, the implication is still there. If you don’t like something you don’t like something. I’m not gonna argue with you on that. What I will argue with is you saying something doesn’t belong because I simply cannot agree with that phrasing. You simply not liking something I like is not the issue here. It’s one thing to say you don’t like something. It’s another thing entirely to say something shouldn’t exist. You said the ladder not the former. I don’t like horror movies but I’m not gonna say they don’t belong in movie theatres because no that’s a dumb thing to say. 
 

you may not mean to say it but the phrase carries that implication. You saying fanservice does no good for the series is not a purely subjective statement that you think it is. For one, it’s not true regardless of your opinion on the matter because it objectively has done good for the series in terms of sales. And secondly, just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean I can’t challenge it or argue against it. Like if you make a faulty claim, I’m allowed to contest it. The opinion card only really goes so far. Again there’s a difference between saying something shouldn’t exist vs simply saying you don’t like it. One is purely based in personal preference while the other implies a level of objectivity and can be criticized. 
 

I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion. I’m just saying if you’re gonna state an opinion and try to rationalize it with objective sounding claims then I’m allowed to criticize your reasoning and even opinion for being poor.

I'll say it again. Even if I may not phrase something as an opinion, the very fact that I posted something in a thread specifically made to be a place where people express opinions makes it clear that what I said was in fact my opinion. There's no objective claims, no implications, etc. I have an opinion. I'm not saying you can't disagree, but there's no need to be so picky over my wording or the potential implications of what I said when my statement doesn't really go any deeper than the original words and phrases I posted. I get it. You don't like how I said it. You disagree with me. I'm not an idiot who is unable to understand basic concepts. But I think you're taking it way too far by being needlessly pedantic about how I said it. It doesn't come across as if you're trying to have a healthy discussion. It just looks like you're overly defensive because I dislike something you appreciate.

[Samven]

17 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

You didn't present this as an opinion, but I agree that Awakening, to me at least, seems far more like a rom-com anime than it does a serious conflict between nations. The serious tone that it tries to convey is largely undermined by the abundance of comedic moments and supports, in my opinion. It honestly feels like there's two writers trying to set a tone and both often cancel each other out.

But... I did say it was like a goofy fantasy rom-com, didn't I?  Whether or not I explicitly use the words, "In my opinion" one would have thought it was clear that that was indeed my opinion?

I'm confused.

Anyway, personally, I don't mind the mismatch.  I see why it's not for others but, personally, I enjoy how it didn't take itself so murderously seriously.  Sometimes all one needs is a lighthearted, "Dorky goodies vs. nasty baddies" narrative and, for me at least, it clicked.

[null]

Just now, Samven said:

But... I did say it was like a goofy fantasy rom-com, didn't I?  Whether or not I explicitly use the words, "In my opinion" one would have thought it was clear that that was indeed my opinion?

I'm confused.

I didn't mean that it wasn't an opinion. It just didn't seem like that was the main point or opinion you were mentioning. Sorry for the confusion.

[Lightcosmo]

7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion. I’m just saying if you’re gonna state an opinion and try to rationalize it with objective sounding claims then I’m allowed to criticize your reasoning and even opinion for being poor.

By your logic, why do opinions even exist then? Because opinions are usually objective? That argument doesn't hold much water here, in my opinion. He doesn't like something in a game, there isn't anything wrong with that and you don't have any right to tell him that it's "wrong".

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, twilitfalchion said:

I'll say it again. Even if I may not phrase something as an opinion, the very fact that I posted something in a thread specifically made to be a place where people express opinions makes it clear that what I said was in fact my opinion. There's no objective claims, no implications, etc. I have an opinion. I'm not saying you can't disagree, but there's no need to be so picky over my wording or the potential implications of what I said when my statement doesn't really go any deeper than the original words and phrases I posted. I get it. You don't like how I said it. You disagree with me. I'm not an idiot who is unable to understand basic concepts. But I think you're taking it way too far by being needlessly pedantic about how I said it. It doesn't come across as if you're trying to have a healthy discussion. It just looks like you're overly defensive because I dislike something you appreciate.

You’re right I am being needlessly pedantic and I’m sorry for that. I’m just a little miffed that people will use the opinion card to defend a poor argument. The opinion card only goes so far and won’t protect you from everything. You can’t just make a bad argument and just go “lol opinions” to try and deflect criticism of an argument. If you say the curtains are blue when they’re actually red. It’s not an opinion when someone corrects you. An extreme example maybe but that’s generally my point. Again I’m sorry for lashing out like that. I was needlessly aggressive and didn’t mean to make you feel threatened. Once again I’m sorry.

[null]

19 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You’re right I am being needlessly pedantic and I’m sorry for that. I’m just a little miffed that people will use the opinion card to defend a poor argument. The opinion card only goes so far and won’t protect you from everything. You can’t just make a bad argument and just go “lol opinions” to try and deflect criticism of an argument. If you say the curtains are blue when they’re actually red. It’s not an opinion when someone corrects you. An extreme example maybe but that’s generally my point. Again I’m sorry for lashing out like that. I was needlessly aggressive and didn’t mean to make you feel threatened. Once again I’m sorry.

I didn't feel threatened, but it felt as though an opinion of mine was being dismissed because you simply disagreed about my opinion and how it was worded. I don't take issue with someone challenging my opinion, but saying that I'm wrong for expressing it how I did is something I don't tolerate. I should be able to present my thoughts in the way I want to, even if you may disagree.

No worries though, I enjoy debate and discussion and am glad to have others to chat with about topics like this. If anything, I respect how passionate you are about what you believe in or enjoy. It's nice to have people like that to debate with.

Edited July 13, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

I didn't feel threatened, but it felt as though an opinion of mine was being dismissed because you simply disagreed about my opinion and how it was worded. I don't take issue with someone challenging my opinion, but saying that I'm wrong for expressing it how I did is something I don't tolerate. I should be able to present my thoughts in the way I want to, even if you may disagree.

No worries though, I enjoy debate and discussion and am glad to have others to chat with about topics like this. If anything, I respect how passionate you are about what you believe in or enjoy. It's nice to have people like that to debate with.

Who said anything about dismissing an opinion? I never once said the opinion itself was invalid just that the phrasing came off as condescending(maybe that’s not the right word) to me. I just hate it when people say something doesn’t belong because who’s to say anything doesn’t belong. Everything has a right to exist no matter one’s personal feelings towards it. I don’t like it when someone says something shouldn’t exist because that just feels arrogant. Like just because you have a distaste for it that means it shouldn’t exist? I simply dislike that mentality. That’s not to say you have that mentality it’s just that phrase gives off that mentality if you ask me. Yeah I’m being needlessly pedantic. This is just a sour spot for me

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ottservia

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Who said anything about dismissing an opinion? I never once said the opinion itself was invalid just that the phrasing came off as condescending(maybe that’s not the right word) to me. I just hate it when people say something doesn’t belong because who’s to say anything doesn’t belong. Everything has a right to exist no matter one’s personal feelings towards it. I don’t like it when someone says something shouldn’t exist because that just feels arrogant. Like just because you have a distaste for it that means it shouldn’t exist? I simply dislike that mentality. 

It's possible to distaste something because you think it shouldn't be a thing. (Such as having character designs like Nowi or just sexual designs in general for a series age-rated for 12 year olds.)

[Ottservia]

33 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

It's possible to distaste something because you think it shouldn't be a thing. (Such as having character designs like Nowi or just sexual designs in general for a series age-rated for 12 year olds.)

Dude if you think Nowi’s design is overly sexual, then I don’t know what to tell you. I also generally just hate that mentality of “but what about the children?” It’s just condescending towards kids who are more insightful than people give them credit for. I just hate censorship in general really. Art is expression and we shouldn’t limit what ideas can or cannot be expressed in art. We shouldn’t have to baby teenagers. They’re old enough to handle some titty and an anime girl in a swimsuit just like they’re old enough to play a game centered on war that tackles themes of hope, despair, racism, death, loss, the flaws of a feudalistic system, revolution, and so on. Stop treating teenagers like they can’t handle anything. They’re not toddlers.

Also @twilitfalchion lemme just take a moment to clarify. I’m not saying that was your intention nor am I dismissing anyone’s opinion here. I’m just saying this is a bit of a sour spot for me. In my opinion saying something doesn’t belong just sounds arrogant and it bothers me personally. You don’t have to agree with me on that just those are my general thoughts on the matter.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ottservia

[ping]

I am convinced that increased focus on fanservice has been to the detriment of the later FE games, sexual or otherwise. Most egregious example, in my opinion, is that the "everything is fuckable" imperative overrides the central theme of family by birth / upbrining in Fates. And I do find it problematic how that imperative also extends to very decidedly childlike characters - Nowi, Ricken, Elise, Hayato...
And while older games tend to have teenage romances aplenty, with the exception of FE4 (where some characters should've been excluded from the eugenics), none of them have teenagers making babies, and none of them have the player marrying their self-insert to those teenagers.

Outside of the sexual, there's also nobody dying in Awakening (can't have the player be sad about [spoiler for a 8yo game] dying for too long!), Kris dragging Marth and Jagen's characters down in FE12, or Corrin never being allowed to make a wrong decision (Helping Garon win the war so that he will hopefully sit his arse on that specific throne while hopefully his children are watching is totally the best, nay, only possible way to resolve all this. It's too bad that thousands of civilians are killed in the process, but the real tragedy is how sad Corrin is about it).

I don't have a fundamental problem with fanservice (an outfit can be cool/beautiful/sexy just for the cause of being cool/beautiful/sexy, no problem), but in modern Fire Emblem, it tends to be too overbearing and, in some cases, shady as hell.

[Samz707]

35 minutes ago, ping said:

I am convinced that increased focus on fanservice has been to the detriment of the later FE games, sexual or otherwise. Most egregious example, in my opinion, is that the "everything is fuckable" imperative overrides the central theme of family by birth / upbrining in Fates. And I do find it problematic how that imperative also extends to very decidedly childlike characters - Nowi, Ricken, Elise, Hayato...
And while older games tend to have teenage romances aplenty, with the exception of FE4 (where some characters should've been excluded from the eugenics), none of them have teenagers making babies, and none of them have the player marrying their self-insert to those teenagers.

Outside of the sexual, there's also nobody dying in Awakening (can't have the player be sad about [spoiler for a 8yo game] dying for too long!), Kris dragging Marth and Jagen's characters down in FE12, or Corrin never being allowed to make a wrong decision (Helping Garon win the war so that he will hopefully sit his arse on that specific throne while hopefully his children are watching is totally the best, nay, only possible way to resolve all this. It's too bad that thousands of civilians are killed in the process, but the real tragedy is how sad Corrin is about it).

I don't have a fundamental problem with fanservice (an outfit can be cool/beautiful/sexy just for the cause of being cool/beautiful/sexy, no problem), but in modern Fire Emblem, it tends to be too overbearing and, in some cases, shady as hell.

Well Chrom thinks Ricken is too young to fight so I think Ricken just outright is a child, apparently he's younger than Lissa, who's 15, which means he's 14 at most.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I am convinced that increased focus on fanservice has been to the detriment of the later FE games, sexual or otherwise. Most egregious example, in my opinion, is that the "everything is fuckable" imperative overrides the central theme of family by birth / upbrining in Fates. And I do find it problematic how that imperative also extends to very decidedly childlike characters - Nowi, Ricken, Elise, Hayato...
And while older games tend to have teenage romances aplenty, with the exception of FE4 (where some characters should've been excluded from the eugenics), none of them have teenagers making babies, and none of them have the player marrying their self-insert to those teenagers.

Outside of the sexual, there's also nobody dying in Awakening (can't have the player be sad about [spoiler for a 8yo game] dying for too long!), Kris dragging Marth and Jagen's characters down in FE12, or Corrin never being allowed to make a wrong decision (Helping Garon win the war so that he will hopefully sit his arse on that specific throne while hopefully his children are watching is totally the best, nay, only possible way to resolve all this. It's too bad that thousands of civilians are killed in the process, but the real tragedy is how sad Corrin is about it).

I don't have a fundamental problem with fanservice (an outfit can be cool/beautiful/sexy just for the cause of being cool/beautiful/sexy, no problem), but in modern Fire Emblem, it tends to be too overbearing and, in some cases, shady as hell.

Y’see it’s this kind of argument I somewhat agree with. Cause yeah being able to marry all your siblings(both Nohr and Hoshido) in fates does undermine the themes a little bit. Fanservice can be done improperly. I won’t be the first to admit that Tharja and Camilla are written the way they are simply for fetish pandering. I don’t mind fanservice so long as it’s not too intrusive. Like if you want have sexy shots of characters in skimpy attire save it for the beach dlc please. Camilla’s chapter 13 cutscene in birthright was wholly unnecessary. Also being able to S-Support characters like Elise or Midori is just not okay. It’s just loli pandering and I don’t mind that I just have to ask why. It bothers me more with Elise than it does Midori because at least with Midori it’s far more easily ignored so I don’t see much reason to complain about it. With Elise, the pandering is really in your face about it. It’s like being able to romance Nanako in persona 4 and that’s not okay. Like I don’t mind fetish pandering but there’s a time and a place for everything. Like if it’s one or two supports then fair. I’m not necessarily complain too much but when it’s shoved in your face as much as Camilla’s ara ara sexy onee-chan shit is then yeah they need to tone that down.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ottservia

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I am convinced that increased focus on fanservice has been to the detriment of the later FE games, sexual or otherwise. Most egregious example, in my opinion, is that the "everything is fuckable" imperative overrides the central theme of family by birth / upbrining in Fates. And I do find it problematic how that imperative also extends to very decidedly childlike characters - Nowi, Ricken, Elise, Hayato...
And while older games tend to have teenage romances aplenty, with the exception of FE4 (where some characters should've been excluded from the eugenics), none of them have teenagers making babies, and none of them have the player marrying their self-insert to those teenagers.

Outside of the sexual, there's also nobody dying in Awakening (can't have the player be sad about [spoiler for a 8yo game] dying for too long!), Kris dragging Marth and Jagen's characters down in FE12, or Corrin never being allowed to make a wrong decision (Helping Garon win the war so that he will hopefully sit his arse on that specific throne while hopefully his children are watching is totally the best, nay, only possible way to resolve all this. It's too bad that thousands of civilians are killed in the process, but the real tragedy is how sad Corrin is about it).

I don't have a fundamental problem with fanservice (an outfit can be cool/beautiful/sexy just for the cause of being cool/beautiful/sexy, no problem), but in modern Fire Emblem, it tends to be too overbearing and, in some cases, shady as hell.

Yeah that's pretty much one of the reasons I hate female-Robin/A large chunk of the female Shepards since they can marry the 14-at-most Ricken, which kinda makes them unlikable. 

 

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I'm very anti fanservice myself. In fact I frankly despise it's existence. I start seeing designs like Charlotte's, Tharja's, Camilla's, etc, and it's an automatic several point knock in my enjoyment of whatever game I'm playing, especially since most games I play involve doing battle so put some freaking clothes on people! I do not care that it is fantasy if you go onto a battlefield wearing a cloth bikini you are getting eviscerated and I won't feel bad for you because you're dumb.

Also that whole mentality of "You can't criticize author intent" is cringey and bad. Yes you can criticize their intent if they're shoving what looks like 12 year olds on a screen in revealing clothes and then saying you can have an adult marry them and have kids. I don't care if the character is "actually over 1000 years old" there are lines that must be drawn and I will criticize any writer for pulling that slimey crap. That should be an extreme example but it's not and people defend it. I will not. FE is not exempt from this.

[Shrimpica]

What matters to me personally is how the characters act more than how they look.

Idc if they look 12 or 120.

Something like Camilla though should not be in a game about war.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Shrimperor