What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[L3xandr3]

9 hours ago, Sooks said:

I agree with this and I still haven’t played Tellius.

Wow that is just straight up not what the word means.

Could this be a translation error/change? Do we need people who know Japanese in here?

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd say the same of Awakening and Fates. Chrom making one tiny reference to being aware of Fates in yore is just a repeat of his DLC babble from Awakening, and should not be taken the in the least bit seriously. Because, besides that quip, there is no connection, and if the connection is not "real, felt, affecting one or both of the worlds", it might as well not exist, so good riddance with it.

https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2018/06/10/making-of-fe-does-page-81-confirm-priam-is-ikes-lineal-descendant-also-japanese-fe-fan-opinions/

And yes, it is possible to be a descendant, but not a direct descendant. I think the word to describe Marth in relation to Anri that he is a "collateral" descendant. Though I'm not versed in genealogical terminology.

1. a person or animal that is descended from a specific ancestor; an offspring.

2. something deriving in appearance, function, or general character from an earlier form.

3. an adherent who follows closely the teachings, methods, practices, etc., of an earlier master, as in art, music, philosophy, etc.; disciple.

This actually came up a while ago in this thread. So it's a bit more difficult to explain than just 'Priam is Ike's great-great-how-ever-many-great-grandson'. He might be Ike's descendant, or he may be a dude who is very similar to Ike.

Personally, I think Priam is Ike's descendant. But whatever I think, we can't prove that either way. Only IS can.

[Shrimpica]

Something being stupid doesn't mean it's not canon, just sayin

[Sooks]

I just don’t think there is any good logic in the specific argument of just because Priam says it doesn’t mean it’s true, when this is a fan service-y video game where Priam has literally no reason to lie other than... to look cool? That sounds like something desperately said by people who ship Ike with a man or think he’s ace.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

30 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I just don’t think there is any good logic in the specific argument of just because Priam says it doesn’t mean it’s true, when this is a fan service-y video game where Priam has literally no reason to lie other than... to look cool? That sounds like something desperately said by people who ship Ike with a man or think he’s ace.

He might not be lying, he might just be mistaken. "We're descended from the Radiant Hero Ike" might be part of his family's lore, just as fractional Native American descent is claimed by even the whitest Americans (sometimes accurately, sometimes not). How would he know, honestly, who his great^20 granddaddy is?

[DragonFlames]

Not to mention it was common the Medieval Ages to claim ancestry with some very famous people (from Julius Caesar to Charlemagne to even King Arthur (fictional as that guy might be) or the Trojans). This was done as a legitimation tactic.
"I deserve to be in this position, because my family descends from King Arthur himself!"
Stuff like that.

This traces back to Ancient Rome, actually; the Aeneis by Vergil was meant to be a genealogy of the Romans.

I know this is supported anywhere in Awakening, but going by this, one could surmise that Priam is like the dukes and kings of yore.

Edited December 13, 2020 by DragonFlames

[Murozaki]

Oh yeah. I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but i generally have sort of stopped caring about how future FE games "should be" other than that i want them to stand out. As i replayed some games in the series i have come to appreciate the small differences and unique stuff in even in the most same-y of games. And now i hope that IS, rather than look at a game like Three Houses and go "How can we improve on this?" for their design process of the next new game, instead just focuses on making something different than Three Houses and see what works and what doesn't for that different game, then when the next new game after THAT starts being made, repeat the process and make it different again.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Murozaki

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

I just don’t think there is any good logic in the specific argument of just because Priam says it doesn’t mean it’s true, when this is a fan service-y video game where Priam has literally no reason to lie other than... to look cool? That sounds like something desperately said by people who ship Ike with a man or think he’s ace.

Does Priam ever even claim he's Ike descendent? I"m having a look at the script now and I don't think he does. There's rumors in the surrounding villages that a descendent of Ike  lives there, but the closest that Priam even says is

Priam
I'm Priam. ...The hypothetical descendant you were just going on about.

Robin and Chrom themselves are even doubtful about whether there's any truth to these rumors. So the game itself is actively encouraging us to question the validity of a Priam Ike connection.

I personally dismiss the claim not based on any shipping ideas, just based on how poorly it's implemented into the story and the fact that they didn't even bother to give his Ragnell a laser beam (if you're going to give me fanservice make it good fanservice damnit).

Edited December 13, 2020 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

I can't believe people are still going on about Priam and what that may or may not mean for Ike's sexuality. I mean, come on guys. Do you really care all that much? Awakening doesn't care all that much about it's continuity with other games. FE7 doesn't even care that much about its continuity with itself. Can't you guys just all write your own fanfictions or something?

[Axie]

ah, the privilege of not needing to fight for any measly crumb of representation in entertainment. i can and WILL argue in behalf of a popular male protagonist character having been canonically gay, thank you.

[Samz707]

Sumia punching Chrom isn't some funny meme moment, it's pretty horrible and the fact the entirety of the cast find it funny just makes them all pretty horrible people.

10 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I can't believe people are still going on about Priam and what that may or may not mean for Ike's sexuality. I mean, come on guys. Do you really care all that much? Awakening doesn't care all that much about it's continuity with other games. FE7 doesn't even care that much about its continuity with itself. Can't you guys just all write your own fanfictions or something?

Admittingly I'm pretty biased (Since I think Awakening is completely terrible) but yeah I pretty much consider Awakening 100 percent non-canon, I'm pretty sure it's retcons with Marth's game will annoy me when I actually work up the strength to get to them (since I only skimmed that list and I'll honestly probably have at least finished half of Marth's games before I get to them in Awakening.) and the hollow pandering of "Wolt's Bow" and other extremely shallow methods of pandering means I pretty much consider it Robin's terrible self-insert Isekai fanfiction. (Grima's backstory in Echoes is pretty much terrible fanfiction villian 101.)

Edited December 13, 2020 by Samz707

[null]

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Sumia punching Chrom isn't some funny meme moment, it's pretty horrible and the fact the entirety of the cast find it funny just makes them all pretty horrible people.

No, I agree. There's slapstick, and then there's supposed humor that falls flat and is in very poor taste. That scene definitely falls into the latter, IMO. And it only serves to make Sumia look even less intelligent than the game already makes her out to be in supports.

[Samz707]

19 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

No, I agree. There's slapstick, and then there's supposed humor that falls flat and is in very poor taste. That scene definitely falls into the latter, IMO. And it only serves to make Sumia look even less intelligent than the game already makes her out to be in supports.

It's even worse since it turns out Chrom was actually 100 percent right to worry about her, even a regular slap would be pretty reprehensible for me, it being a punch is worse but it's still horrible to randomly assault people. (It's not like Chrom was being completely hysterical.)

Honestly Awakening's early game feels unfair to Chrom (and I despise Chrom.), he's somehow treated as in the wrong for wanting to attack Gangrel, the maniac who's literally about to invade for any reason, who literally is able to kidnap a member of the shepards and threaten to execute them as a spy (Which btw, he could probably spin into grounds for an invasion.) yet somehow Chrom wanting to actually do anything about it is in the wrong.

I guess leaving defenseless Ylisseans dead is better than leaving them homeless and starving to Emmeryn.

Dunno if the game itself does it (Since I couldn't bring myself to keep playing after the Punch because I already hated the game at that point.) but I've even seen people blame Chrom for starting the war.

Apparently, Chrom is in the wrong for cutting down a dude charging to gut his sister and steal the Fire Emblem, and not Gangrel because that messed up logic makes sense.

 

[null]

31 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

It's even worse since it turns out Chrom was actually 100 percent right to worry about her, even a regular slap would be pretty reprehensible for me, it being a punch is worse but it's still horrible to randomly assault people. (It's not like Chrom was being completely hysterical.)

Yeah, I definitely agree. Physical violence is a poor way of conveying humor in serious situation. It kills the tone, tbh.

31 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Honestly Awakening's early game feels unfair to Chrom (and I despise Chrom.), he's somehow treated as in the wrong for wanting to attack Gangrel, the maniac who's literally about to invade for any reason, who literally is able to kidnap a member of the shepards and threaten to execute them as a spy (Which btw, he could probably spin into grounds for an invasion.) yet somehow Chrom wanting to actually do anything about it is in the wrong.

I guess leaving defenseless Ylisseans dead is better than leaving them homeless and starving to Emmeryn.

Dunno if the game itself does it (Since I couldn't bring myself to keep playing after the Punch because I already hated the game at that point.) but I've even seen people blame Chrom for starting the war.

Apparently, Chrom is in the wrong for cutting down a dude charging to gut his sister and steal the Fire Emblem, and not Gangrel because that messed up logic makes sense.

Yeah ngl, Awakening seems to really push against Chrom having a major or meaningful role in its story despite him being featured prominently on the cover art and being an important figure in the prologue, early chapters, etc. I like both Chrom and Lucina, but it comes across like the devs wanted to push Chrom into the background as the story progressed to make way for Lucina, as though they couldn't co-exist in equally meaningful roles. As you mentioned, him consistently appearing to be in the wrong is just another way of them doing that, if you ask me.

Edited December 13, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Ottservia]

59 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Yeah ngl, Awakening seems to really push against Chrom having a major or meaningful role in its story despite him being featured prominently on the cover art and being an important figure in the prologue, early chapters, etc. I like both Chrom and Lucina, but it comes across like the devs wanted to push Chrom into the background as the story progressed to make way for Lucina, as though they couldn't co-exist in equally meaningful roles. As you mentioned, him consistently appearing to be in the wrong is just another way of them doing that, if you ask me.

okay personally, I never understood this criticism. The only time I kind of understand is during the final arc where Chrom is treated more so as a side character because the story shifts more focus to Robin. In the first two arcs though? I just don't see it. Chrom's whole arc in the first part of the story is that he is wrong. He's trapped in the past and can't help but feel hatred towards those who would harm his sister. In that way he fails to understand his sister's ideals. The whole point is that Chrom is trapped in the past that he fails to realize that he's no better than Gangrel. Because both of them are trapped in the past and hate others because of what happened in the past. Hell it's even somewhat implied that Chrom still hasn't forgiven his own people for what they did to Emmeryn. In this way Chrom only serves to perpetuate this cycle of hate and revenge. Instead of choosing to forgive, he chooses to hate. Emmeryn is able to forgive. She's able to move on from the past and not repeat those same mistakes. She knows what the previous war did to both plegia and ylisse and she refuses to repeat that mistake. It's only after her sacrifice that Chrom is finally able to realize all of this and move on. He is able to not necessarily forgive but he is able to not be consumed by his own hate and past mistakes. This whole idea is even contrasted in Walhart. Because Walhart wants to abandon the past. He wants to discard it and prove humanity's strength to stand on their own. However, in that way he's contradicting in that essentially a lot of his soldiers don't think for themselves and in fact just blindly follow him. Walhart will not bend to anyone but at the same time he expects everyone to bend to him. This contrasts with Chrom who never forces anyone to do something they don't want to. Anyone he recruits is given the opportunity to refuse which allows them to make the choice for themselves. Chrom represents unity through ideals and cooperation where as Walhart represents unity through power and fear. They foil each other pretty well if you ask me and Walhart is wrong because he contradicts himself and that when his power is shown to not be as strong as people thought his army crumbles. The dynasts rally behind the ideals of peace. They no longer fear Walhart and are thus able to finally stand up to him. Showing that loyalty based solely on strength easily crumbles and that ambition without ideals amounts to nothing in the end. Walhart is supposed to be a foil to Emmeryn which Chrom even states at the end of the arc. By the end of the Valm arc, Chrom's character arc is more or less complete. He's learned the true meaning of his sister's ideals and has had those ideals meaningfully challenged by Walhart. There's not much else you can do with his character development so the story shifts its focus to Robin. But even when it does, Robin's character arc parallels Chrom's in a meaningful way. It's about Robin coming to terms with his past and learning to accept it which is reflected in Validar being a figure of his past and grima literally being his past self. This, again, parallels with Chrom who had similar character arc during the conflict with Gangrel. 

Awakening's story is more nuanced than you may think.

[null]

23 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

okay personally, I never understood this criticism. The only time I kind of understand is during the final arc where Chrom is treated more so as a side character because the story shifts more focus to Robin. In the first two arcs though? I just don't see it. Chrom's whole arc in the first part of the story is that he is wrong. He's trapped in the past and can't help but feel hatred towards those who would harm his sister. In that way he fails to understand his sister's ideals. The whole point is that Chrom is trapped in the past that he fails to realize that he's no better than Gangrel. Because both of them are trapped in the past and hate others because of what happened in the past. Hell it's even somewhat implied that Chrom still hasn't forgiven his own people for what they did to Emmeryn. In this way Chrom only serves to perpetuate this cycle of hate and revenge. Instead of choosing to forgive, he chooses to hate. Emmeryn is able to forgive. She's able to move on from the past and not repeat those same mistakes. She knows what the previous war did to both plegia and ylisse and she refuses to repeat that mistake. It's only after her sacrifice that Chrom is finally able to realize all of this and move on. He is able to not necessarily forgive but he is able to not be consumed by his own hate and past mistakes. This whole idea is even contrasted in Walhart. Because Walhart wants to abandon the past. He wants to discard it and prove humanity's strength to stand on their own. However, in that way he's contradicting in that essentially a lot of his soldiers don't think for themselves and in fact just blindly follow him. Walhart will not bend to anyone but at the same time he expects everyone to bend to him. This contrasts with Chrom who never forces anyone to do something they don't want to. Anyone he recruits is given the opportunity to refuse which allows them to make the choice for themselves. Chrom represents unity through ideals and cooperation where as Walhart represents unity through power and fear. They foil each other pretty well if you ask me and Walhart is wrong because he contradicts himself and that when his power is shown to not be as strong as people thought his army crumbles. The dynasts rally behind the ideals of peace. They no longer fear Walhart and are thus able to finally stand up to him. Showing that loyalty based solely on strength easily crumbles and that ambition without ideals amounts to nothing in the end. Walhart is supposed to be a foil to Emmeryn which Chrom even states at the end of the arc. By the end of the Valm arc, Chrom's character arc is more or less complete. He's learned the true meaning of his sister's ideals and has had those ideals meaningfully challenged by Walhart. There's not much else you can do with his character development so the story shifts its focus to Robin. But even when it does, Robin's character arc parallels Chrom's in a meaningful way. It's about Robin coming to terms with his past and learning to accept it which is reflected in Validar being a figure of his past and grima literally being his past self. This, again, parallels with Chrom who had similar character arc during the conflict with Gangrel. 

Awakening's story is more nuanced than you may think.

Y'know, I'm genuinely impressed that you were able to get that much out of the amount of story Awakening had. I can really appreciate that.

In all honesty, next to none of that supposed depth or nuance was conveyed to me as the player. That's not to say I dislike Chrom, Emmeryn, etc., but in my multiple playthroughs of Awakening, the story did very little to get that message or those ideas across to me.

Edited December 13, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Y'know, I'm genuinely impressed that you were able to get that much out of the amount of story Awakening had. I can really appreciate that.

In all honesty, next to none of that supposed depth or nuance was conveyed to me as the player. That's not to say I dislike Chrom, Emmeryn, etc., but in my multiple playthroughs of Awakening, the story did very little to get that message or those ideas across to me.

I don’t necessarily blame you because it took me several complete play throughs to figure out all of this as well. Which is why I’m always of the opinion that you should re-experience the stories/media you’ve engaged in even if you don‘t like it. Another look with a greater focus on the specifics can lead you to realizing things you hadn’t before. Worse case scenario you reconfirm your hatred but at least now maybe you have a better understanding of why you hated that thing to begin with. Best case scenario, you connect details you hadn’t before and draw new conclusions which in turn allows you to gain a new appreciation for it. 
 

hell I used to think Fates was trash like everyone else. It’s only until a very recent replay of it that I realized there was far more nuance to it than I initially thought. Though if you want to hear more of my thoughts on that I have an analysis linked in my sig as well as a full analysis of awakening.

[Samz707]

9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t necessarily blame you because it took me several complete play throughs to figure out all of this as well. Which is why I’m always of the opinion that you should re-experience the stories/media you’ve engaged in even if you don‘t like it. Another look with a greater focus on the specifics can lead you to realizing things you hadn’t before. Worse case scenario you reconfirm your hatred but at least now maybe you have a better understanding of why you hated that thing to begin with. Best case scenario, you connect details you hadn’t before and draw new conclusions which in turn allows you to gain a new appreciation for it. 
 

hell I used to think Fates was trash like everyone else. It’s only until a very recent replay of it that I realized there was far more nuance to it than I initially thought. Though if you want to hear more of my thoughts on that I have an analysis linked in my sig as well as a full analysis of awakening.

How though?

Chrome isn't  like Gangrel, at all, that's like claiming Eliwood and Nergal are the same.

Chrome doesn't actually do anything to try and set off a war, Gangrel has been trying to start a war for some period of time (I get the vibe he's been at it for a while), Chrom wants to gut Gangrel since he's an obviously evil ass hat trying to start a war, the past isn't actually effecting his actions as much h as you claim, I don't think Chrom would want to kill Gangrel if it wasn't for Gangrels actions in the present, so he's not actually super focused on the past.

I'd also argue Chrom tricks (unintentionally but it is with flawed logic the game itself proves right with how terrible he is) Donnel into joining up by saying  how Farmwork isn't different from fighting yet Donnel is the worst unit in the series and wasn't actually going to join.

If you ask me, Emmeryn is the one in the past, she's the one who essentially allows the bloodshed because she's allowing essentially family guilt to make her be extremely irrational, she's essentially got extreme guilt over the past and it informs all of her terrible decisions,she is as stuck in the past as anyone could be, I always thought she was irrationally ruling out of a fear of  being like the past, to the point where she effectively allowed her kingdom to be pillaged  due to bad leadership essentially out of guilt for being ylisse.

[DragonFlames]

16 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Which is why I’m always of the opinion that you should re-experience the stories/media you’ve engaged in even if you don‘t like it.

I could never muster the willpower to do this, to be honest.
The second I say "I dislike this" of anything pertaining to my hobby (which is mostly gaming), I deem it not worth my time and energy anymore. I'd rather spend time replaying games I actually liked rather than those I didn't enjoy just on the off-chance I might enjoy them on a second or third playthrough.

Though I did try to replay Fates recently, and I just reaffirmed to myself that no, I do not enjoy it, and that opinion won't change.
Bottom line; I personally felt I just wasted my time. Time I could have spent replaying any of the games I love, like Atelier Sophie, Nights of Azure or any of the Neptunia games.
Reason I bring up Fates is because this is still an FE-related topic.

And the bottom line of the bottom line is, I actually find it admirable that you could do that.
It's just something I personally wouldn't want to do on account of me rather spending my free time on and with stuff I like.

[null]

5 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I could never muster the willpower to do this, to be honest.
The second I say "I dislike this" of anything pertaining to my hobby (which is mostly gaming), I deem it not worth my time and energy anymore. I'd rather spend time replaying games I actually liked rather than those I didn't enjoy just on the off-chance I might enjoy them on a second or third playthrough.

I also find myself being like this. If I dislike something, I usually know it pretty quickly, and no matter how many times I go back to it it won't change my opinion. Case in point: Berwick Saga. Definitely an acquired taste in a game, so to speak, but one that is not for me. I've tried to like it and continue playing it, but I only end up frustrated. So I've (slowly) learned to stop trying to make myself like things that I won't and stick to what I do, haha.

[Murozaki]

3 hours ago, Samz707 said:

It's even worse since it turns out Chrom was actually 100 percent right to worry about her, even a regular slap would be pretty reprehensible for me, it being a punch is worse but it's still horrible to randomly assault people. (It's not like Chrom was being completely hysterical.)

Honestly Awakening's early game feels unfair to Chrom (and I despise Chrom.), he's somehow treated as in the wrong for wanting to attack Gangrel, the maniac who's literally about to invade for any reason, who literally is able to kidnap a member of the shepards and threaten to execute them as a spy (Which btw, he could probably spin into grounds for an invasion.) yet somehow Chrom wanting to actually do anything about it is in the wrong.

I guess leaving defenseless Ylisseans dead is better than leaving them homeless and starving to Emmeryn.

Dunno if the game itself does it (Since I couldn't bring myself to keep playing after the Punch because I already hated the game at that point.) but I've even seen people blame Chrom for starting the war.

Apparently, Chrom is in the wrong for cutting down a dude charging to gut his sister and steal the Fire Emblem, and not Gangrel because that messed up logic makes sense.

You missed the point, those aspects are never framed as "Chrom is in the wrong for wanting to defend his country and loved ones", they are framed as "Chrom is in the wrong for playing into Gangrel's game", it's not about how Chrom is wrong for daring to be against Gangrel, it's about how he's wrong for his methods being exactly what Gangrel wants them to be to justify his own actions and emotions. So long as Chrom is using such violence for his ends it gives Gangrel both an excuse to not care about any standards and a justification for his own views of humanity as being all rabbid dogs. This doesn't make Gangrel less evil, but it does make Chrom someone that is not helping any matters.

And i don't get why you guys take the punch moment as if it's some big "problematic" stuff, you're all making it sound like this is some abusive emotional manipulation at play when it's literally just a typical "Snap out of it and focus on what's around you instead of getting hung up on your regrets" moment, is it partly a joke? Yeah, but the joke is not really "haha punching people is funny" so much so as that the punching is so spontaneous and out-of-nowhere that it completely snaps the somber mood of the scene in half, and again, even then there is still emotional sincerity to the scene.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Murozaki

[Ottservia]

4 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

How though?

Chrome isn't  like Gangrel, at all, that's like claiming Eliwood and Nergal are the same.

Chrome doesn't actually do anything to try and set off a war, Gangrel has been trying to start a war for some period of time (I get the vibe he's been at it for a while), Chrom wants to gut Gangrel since he's an obviously evil ass hat trying to start a war, the past isn't actually effecting his actions as much h as you claim, I don't think Chrom would want to kill Gangrel if it wasn't for Gangrels actions in the present, so he's not actually super focused on the past.

You’re looking at it too much from a surface level. Ask yourself this. How does Gangrel rally the plegians to his cause? He does so by reminding them of what Ylisse did to them in the past. He’s using that hate to rally them to war in order to enact revenge. Why is Chrom so defensive of Emmeryn? Because he doesn’t want her to go through anymore pain than she already has. He doesn’t understand why Emmeryn could ever forgive someone who hurt her in the past. He’s so focused on the past pain his sister went through that he fails to understand her ideals in the end. Again he is unable to forgive just like Gangrel. They’re both trapped in the past and are unable to forgive people as a result. The fact that Chrom is only able to hate Gangrel because of his actions is proof enough that he’s wrong. Even when he does kill Gangrel it’s not out of revenge but rather a duty to his people as a prince(it’s not that dissimilar to Dimitri, actually). In a way he was able to do what Emmery could not do. Which kinda goes back to what Robin says in that alone they’re not even half the person his sister was but maybe if they work together they can become something more.

 

11 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

If you ask me, Emmeryn is the one in the past, she's the one who essentially allows the bloodshed because she's allowing essentially family guilt to make her be extremely irrational, she's essentially got extreme guilt over the past and it informs all of her terrible decisions,she is as stuck in the past as anyone could be, I always thought she was irrationally ruling out of a fear of  being like the past, to the point where she effectively allowed her kingdom to be pillaged  due to bad leadership essentially out of guilt for being ylisse.

Being consumed by and repeating the past is different from acknowledging the past and trying to correct it to move forward. Emmeryn does the ladder not the former. She is able to acknowledge what her father did was a mistake and she makes the effort to try and fix it so it doesn’t happen again. She wants to heal the scars of the past so that both Ylisse and Plegia can move forward towards a more peaceful future. Before her sacrifice she tries to tell plegia that their hatred for Ylisse won’t get them anything and that they should instead strive to forgive and move on. She wants to be able to build that peaceful world which can’t happen if all we do is hate each other for our past actions. That is the point of the story.

 

25 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

I'd also argue Chrom tricks (unintentionally but it is with flawed logic the game itself proves right with how terrible he is) Donnel into joining up by saying  how Farmwork isn't different from fighting yet Donnel is the worst unit in the series and wasn't actually going to join.

I mean he’s not necessarily wrong though. You know ninja back in feudal japan mostly came from poor farming villages, right? Even so it’s also just a general trope. I mean ever heard of the hero’s journey? Even so it’s not like he forces Donnel to fight. He tries to encourage Donnel, definitely but Donnel comes to fight of his own accord. 

[Use the Falchion]

25 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I could never muster the willpower to do this, to be honest.
The second I say "I dislike this" of anything pertaining to my hobby (which is mostly gaming), I deem it not worth my time and energy anymore. I'd rather spend time replaying games I actually liked rather than those I didn't enjoy just on the off-chance I might enjoy them on a second or third playthrough.

Though I did try to replay Fates recently, and I just reaffirmed to myself that no, I do not enjoy it, and that opinion won't change.
Bottom line; I personally felt I just wasted my time. Time I could have spent replaying any of the games I love, like Atelier Sophie, Nights of Azure or any of the Neptunia games.
Reason I bring up Fates is because this is still an FE-related topic.

And the bottom line of the bottom line is, I actually find it admirable that you could do that.
It's just something I personally wouldn't want to do on account of me rather spending my free time on and with stuff I like.

For me it depends. If I dislike something and want to figure out why I dislike it, want to try and understand it, or simply want to give it a second chance (or in some cases, a fairer chance than my first one), I'll try it again. Sometimes that second time helps - books like The Hunger Games, A Game of Thrones, and even Mistborn: The Final Empire - my now favorite book - took two tries to get into at first. 

Other things like Sarah J Maas' Throne of Glass series and The Rise of Skywalker didn't do well, despite me retrying them. 

[Murozaki]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

okay personally, I never understood this criticism. The only time I kind of understand is during the final arc where Chrom is treated more so as a side character because the story shifts more focus to Robin. In the first two arcs though? I just don't see it. Chrom's whole arc in the first part of the story is that he is wrong. He's trapped in the past and can't help but feel hatred towards those who would harm his sister. In that way he fails to understand his sister's ideals. The whole point is that Chrom is trapped in the past that he fails to realize that he's no better than Gangrel. Because both of them are trapped in the past and hate others because of what happened in the past. Hell it's even somewhat implied that Chrom still hasn't forgiven his own people for what they did to Emmeryn. In this way Chrom only serves to perpetuate this cycle of hate and revenge. Instead of choosing to forgive, he chooses to hate. Emmeryn is able to forgive. She's able to move on from the past and not repeat those same mistakes. She knows what the previous war did to both plegia and ylisse and she refuses to repeat that mistake. It's only after her sacrifice that Chrom is finally able to realize all of this and move on. He is able to not necessarily forgive but he is able to not be consumed by his own hate and past mistakes.

I personally disagree with the idea that Chrom's flaw is that he didn't understand Emmeryn's world and that Emmeryn is the one that is completely right. While Emmeryn was able to still do good it wasn't enough to stop the war from happening (That's the point of the "No reaction..." scene, the only way Emmeryn could get the violence to decrease was by sacrificing herself due to her own failings). That's not to say Chrom is not flawed either but the thing about his character is that it was not so much so about understanding Emmeryn so much so as it was about him becoming better in his own way. He didn't understand his sister's view until she died, but the conversation he has with Robin all about how he can't just start emulating her now and expect things to be better as even Emmeryn was not perfect, and that he needs to be better by being the kind of ruler that only he can be. And his battle dialogue with Gangrel is pretty much all about how in order to be better Chrom doesn't need to become some kind of pacifist like Emmeryn but rather that he needs to stop Gangrel out of his duty as a prince rather than because of his own emotions and bitterness.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Murozaki

[Samz707]

32 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You’re looking at it too much from a surface level. Ask yourself this. How does Gangrel rally the plegians to his cause? He does so by reminding them of what Ylisse did to them in the past. He’s using that hate to rally them to war in order to enact revenge. Why is Chrom so defensive of Emmeryn? Because he doesn’t want her to go through anymore pain than she already has. He doesn’t understand why Emmeryn could ever forgive someone who hurt her in the past. He’s so focused on the past pain his sister went through that he fails to understand her ideals in the end. Again he is unable to forgive just like Gangrel. They’re both trapped in the past and are unable to forgive people as a result. The fact that Chrom is only able to hate Gangrel because of his actions is proof enough that he’s wrong. Even when he does kill Gangrel it’s not out of revenge but rather a duty to his people as a prince(it’s not that dissimilar to Dimitri, actually). In a way he was able to do what Emmery could not do. Which kinda goes back to what Robin says in that alone they’re not even half the person his sister was but maybe if they work together they can become something more.

 

Being consumed by and repeating the past is different from acknowledging the past and trying to correct it to move forward. Emmeryn does the ladder not the former. She is able to acknowledge what her father did was a mistake and she makes the effort to try and fix it so it doesn’t happen again. She wants to heal the scars of the past so that both Ylisse and Plegia can move forward towards a more peaceful future. Before her sacrifice she tries to tell plegia that their hatred for Ylisse won’t get them anything and that they should instead strive to forgive and move on. She wants to be able to build that peaceful world which can’t happen if all we do is hate each other for our past actions. That is the point of the story.

 

I mean he’s not necessarily wrong though. You know ninja back in feudal japan mostly came from poor farming villages, right? Even so it’s also just a general trope. I mean ever heard of the hero’s journey? Even so it’s not like he forces Donnel to fight. He tries to encourage Donnel, definitely but Donnel comes to fight of his own accord. 

 

No offense but I don't agree with this, at all.

It's kinda vague and basically ignores the actual actions of Chrom/Gangrel, Chrom doesn't do anything to actually escalate the war while Gangrel does everything he can, they're effectively polar opposites, Chrom's angry sure but he does literally nothing that escalates towards the war, it's kinda like you're looking way too into it while actually ignoring what would happen if everyone was actually like Emmeryn in Yilsse.

You're looking into themes while completely ignoring the reality of the situation.

Again, Emmeryn just gets her own kingdom's citizens killed, "Forgive and move one" isn't an option when the other dude is literally killing, kidnapping your forces and was sending bandits constantly, (don't they even say it's been for months?) Peace, quite literally isn't an option here, you can't exactly just bow your heads and hope a genocidal maniac isn't going to cut your head off because quite frankly, he's just going to cut your head off.

Emmeryn's ideals are flawed and don't work if you actually think about it, Yilsse would be literally burning and pillaged if everyone there believed in her ideals since Gangrel is clearly someone that can only be dealt with via force, she is quite frankly to me, a pretentious moron.

Again, what if Chrom wasn't around?...oh yeah, Emmeryn would have been killed and Gangrel would have took the Fire Emblem from her still warm corpse, oh and those bandits he was constantly sending in would have killed more, stole more and sold more women into slavery.

Donnel to me, was completely unwilling to actually join until Chrom presuaded him with a false arguement, Ninjas also weren't exactly big fans of direct combat, while Donnel is entirely frontline combat and again, the fact Donnel is the worst unit in FE on a gameplay front I think proves my point, your comparison doesn't exactly work since Ninjas were more of a stealthy thing rather than direct combat while Donnel is charging into combat as a unit who's complete trash.

 

34 minutes ago, Murozaki said:

You missed the point, those aspects are never framed as "Chrom is in the wrong for wanting to defend his country and loved ones", they are framed as "Chrom is in the wrong for playing into Gangrel's game", it's not about how Chrom is wrong for daring to be against Gangrel, it's about how he's wrong for his methods being exactly what Gangrel wants them to be to justify his own actions and emotions. So long as Chrom is using such violence for his ends it gives Gangrel both an excuse to not care about any standards and a justification for his own views of humanity as being all rabbid dogs. This doesn't make Gangrel less evil, but it does make Chrom someone that is not helping any matters.

And i don't get why you guys take the punch moment as if it's some big "problematic" stuff, you're all making it sound like this is some abusive emotional manipulation at play when it's literally just a typical "Snap out of it and focus on what's around you instead of getting hung up on your regrets" moment, is it partly a joke? Yeah, but the joke is not really "haha punching people is funny" so much so as that the punching is so spontaneous and out-of-nowhere that it completely snaps the somber mood of the scene in half, and again, even then there is still emotional sincerity to the scene.

Because Chrom doesn't deserve being punched, at all and it's not funny and all the in-game characters treats it like it's funny when it's not.

Besides, Chrom doesn't actually do anything to play into Gangrel's game, Emmeryn is the one who makes every bad call that allows the war to go off.

• Reduced Army so he can literally send in bandits constantly and get away with kidnapping Mariabelle out of essentially guilt for the past.
• Played into Gangrel's trap, literally only survived because Chrom protected her in self-defense, somehow thinking talking things through would work with Gangrel. (Who's clearly beyond that.)
• Then walked back into her clearly under defended (Considering how quickly it falls) capital and gets herself killed. (Til you do the spotpass and she magically survived because screw anyone actually staying dead in a Perma-death series.)

Chrom

 

He uhh....killed a dude in self-defense going to kill Emmeryn? AKA: Gangrel already effectively declared war.

Chrom played into nothing, unless you're effectively going to victim blame for self-defense, was he angry? sure, did he effectively do anything that escalated stuff? Not at all unless you think he should have just let Emmeryn get shanked.

 

Emmeryn is the one who quite literally made all of the mistakes that allowed the war to kick off, Chrom effectively is what stopped things going as bad as they could have gone while Emmeryn was literally about to effectively deliver the Fire Emblem to Gangrel because of her morals that don't work.

Gangrel already made up his mind about having war and quite frankly would have just lied and claimed Emmeryn's forces attacked first like he did with Maribelle, peace and understanding isn't an option when the other dude quite frankly already wants you dead and words won't do anything.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Samz707

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Yeah ngl, Awakening seems to really push against Chrom having a major or meaningful role in its story despite him being featured prominently on the cover art and being an important figure in the prologue, early chapters, etc. I like both Chrom and Lucina, but it comes across like the devs wanted to push Chrom into the background as the story progressed to make way for Lucina, as though they couldn't co-exist in equally meaningful roles. As you mentioned, him consistently appearing to be in the wrong is just another way of them doing that, if you ask me.

I don't really think so. Awakening has three arcs with only the last one of them having Robin eclipse Chrom. If anything its Lucina that never quite gets the spotlight she deserved. 

The first arc of the game is without a doubt Chrom's arc. Its about his duties as a prince and his development as a character. It largely revolves around his family, his home country and a crazy maniac who tries to topple both. 

The second arc isn't as intimately connected to Chrom but he's still mostly the main character. Its still Chrom's ideology he got from his sister which opposes that of Walhart. 

Only in the third arc does the story become about Robin, his family and his connection to Grima. At this point Chrom takes the role of secondary protagonist but he's had a good run. I don't think Awakening did him particularly dirty.