What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[ZeManaphy]

Who’s Edward?

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, ZeManaphy said:

Who’s Edward?

An early-game Myrmidon from Radiant Dawn, part of the Dawn Brigade.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

This is a fair point, but in practice I dunno that it pans out. A similar argument could be used for training Fiona instead of Zihark, and that's pretty obviously not a good idea.

My personal experience is that benching a number of the weakest DB members makes the chapters significantly easier. (And Edward is IMO one of that group.) Edward never pays off in a meaningful way; the playthroughs where I don't train him (which are a majority), I never find I miss him in part 3 at all. (And of course, untrained Edward can still block ledges in 3-13.) I don't think Zihark in part 3 is irreplaceable, but if you build an earth/earth support for him he can reach relatively reliable avoid figures, which Edward can't really even if you give him far more exp and an earth support of his own.

Re: Fiona, her problem isn't that she's still bad even if trained, it's that there aren't any real chances to train her. She can't be deployed in I-8, and I-7 and I-E are both "indoor" maps with ledges. If there were any Part I maps where she could give even a decent performance, then I think there'd be a case for investing in her.

That said, it's honestly been a long time since I've played RD, and most of my experience is with Normal mode (JP Hard). So I might not be remembering the relative merits of Edward and Zihark, particularly on Hard (JP Maniac).

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Who’s Edward?

This guy.

[Shadow Mir]

20 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Sure, a trained Edward isn't better than an untrained Zihark from the start of Part III. My point is, DB Part III is something of an "all hands on deck" moment, where it's better to have two "pretty good" units, than one "really good" and one "bad" unit.

That sounds true on paper, but I am not convinced it's true in practice...

20 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'd agree that Leonardo is better than Edward in Part III. Namely, he gets the Brave Bow and Lughnasadh as excellent tools, and in III-13, he can man the ballistae and do effective damage against enemy Hawks. In Part I, though, Edward has a clear advantage: he can double foes that Leonardo cannot, meaning he's dealing much more damage. And Edward does better in Strength and HP.

Unfortunately for Edward, he has to put his neck on the chopping block to do that damage, which isn't good when he's pretty much always 2HKOed.

[Jotari]

Have I said this already? I don't think I have, but if I have, I'll say it again, Edward is a great candidate for early promotion. Radiant Dawn differs from other games in that you don't need an item to promote units (in the English version at least), this means promotion items are used only for early promotion (even if it's just knocking out that level 20->21 that you don't get any stat gains for).  Radiant Dawn is also a long game where you are likely to have a unit reach 20/20/20 so late promoting optimal on a unit you're building, but it's also a game with loads of different units that you will use but not invest in, so early promoting is smart. Edward in particular not only benefits from good stat gains promoting, but it also boosts his innate crit rate from 5% to 15% and gives him more capacity for equipping skills, which he can use pretty well due to innate wrath. He'll still be a weaker Zihark when you early promote him, and his exp will slow down a bit, but it will turn him into a capable unit for killing enemies using a resource that isn't in much competition (there are like five Master Seals in the game, which only promote tier 1 units, and there's barely more than five tier 1 units anyway).

[Vicious Sal]

Zihark is still the best unit you have in RD HM for the DB. Better than Jill or invested Nolan. 
It's been mapped out rather extensively. Believe in Zihark DB carry supremacy.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Vicious Sal said:

Zihark is still the best unit you have in RD HM for the DB. Better than Jill or invested Nolan. 

Sothe and Volug exist, though.

[Vicious Sal]

7 hours ago, Florete said:

Sothe and Volug exist, though.

So the can't forge strong enough weapons to do meaningful things in P3 and cannot kill Ike, Volug is too slow in 3-12 due to 1 range and cannot keep up Vs the Tigers and needs a supp partner for the stats. But you can't place the buff provider anywhere. 

this goes into great detail though the title is rather clickbaity

 

[Metal Flash]

I would kinda like to see another attempt at the Eliwood/Hector`s story split. Maybe have them be entirely separate stories in the same world. Or maybe rework split routes to have them follow different protagonists. Haven`t figured out the details yet but something along these lines.

[Acacia Sgt]

I've always felt that would be a good way to incorporate Al in a potential Binding Blade remake. Give him a route of his own, which would be exclusive up to the point where he joined Roy's army, then the game goes more or less the same (minding Hasha no Tsurugi's additions)... before deviating again at the end.

[Metal Flash]

That could definetly work, though it is debatable how many people would actually play a separate story focused on a character from some manga from decades ago.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Metal Flash

[5PointGordin]

Permadeath is a bad mechanic and should be retired I think, esp seeing as it feels like the latest games are not designed around the mechanic.

Fire Emblem 3 Houses and Shadows of Valentia have a time wheel mechanic, largely making permadeath a non-issue in these games. Additionally, the way stats scale in 3 houses (esp on higher difficulties) makes Permadeath a massive hassle since raising a new units from scratch is pretty hard. In Shadows of Valentia, enemies aren't AS strong so its not as bad on this front. I think you can play w/ permadeath in mind and still do well.

I am playing through Fates right now, and I am not fond of Permadeatth in this game either. Again, enemy levels scale pretty hard from level to level & you don't get many prepremotes during a normal playthrough. I don't like early promoting in these games either enemy stats & levels are progressively raised throughout the adventure. Losing one unit locks you out from paralogues too, effectively meaning that you lose two units. I do prefer playing this game in casual mode since you have access to battle saves, thought there are some maps where the position you are at in the end of a turn is so bad, you are gonna be losing a unit no matter what.

I think permadeath is fine in some of the earlier games since you don't really tangibly lose much if a unit dies. If Mattis or Roshea die in FE3 / Shadow Dragon, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day since several other units can easily fill their role. However, I believe that this also hinders the story in those games as a byproduct. Because it is possible for Mattis and other units in the game to die, they don't participate in the story as much, meaning the main stars of the show are Marth and several NPCs like Nyna rather than the characters you are using. In recent games, a lot more emphasis has been placed on the cast of the games, their personalities, etc. so I think removing permadeath might help them shine a lot more in the story.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:24 PM, Metal Flash said:

That could definetly work, though it is debatable how many people would actually play a separate story focused on a character from some manga from decades ago.

>Is it FE6?

Yes.

>Play it

Well, that's my vote at least.

1 hour ago, 5PointGordin said:

Permadeath is a bad mechanic and should be retired I think, esp seeing as it feels like the latest games are not designed around the mechanic.

Permadeath is a good mechanic, but you are 100% right about how the series has basically abandoned it as a part of its design philosophy, which makes it, like...not work. I've talked about this before, but the actual written stories of Fire Emblem games (and even games in general) isn't very impressive. I find the emergent narratives of units dying or getting stat blessed much more interesting than the words on the screen, so I would prefer a return to Shadow Dragon or FE6 style rosters, rather than a transition from permadeath to pheonix downs. Cool take though.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just for the novelty alone I'd say it would attract attention. Al and company appeared in Cipher, so at the very least IS hasn't forgotten about them, which is why I think they could potentially appear in any hypothetical remake to begin with. So the Japanese audience at least totally would. It'd help that would be brand new content, so to speak, which would satisfy those seeking to try new stuff in a remake. At least, I'd hope.

[Shadow Mir]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:12 PM, Jotari said:

Have I said this already? I don't think I have, but if I have, I'll say it again, Edward is a great candidate for early promotion. Radiant Dawn differs from other games in that you don't need an item to promote units (in the English version at least), this means promotion items are used only for early promotion (even if it's just knocking out that level 20->21 that you don't get any stat gains for).  Radiant Dawn is also a long game where you are likely to have a unit reach 20/20/20 so late promoting optimal on a unit you're building, but it's also a game with loads of different units that you will use but not invest in, so early promoting is smart. Edward in particular not only benefits from good stat gains promoting, but it also boosts his innate crit rate from 5% to 15% and gives him more capacity for equipping skills, which he can use pretty well due to innate wrath. He'll still be a weaker Zihark when you early promote him, and his exp will slow down a bit, but it will turn him into a capable unit for killing enemies using a resource that isn't in much competition (there are like five Master Seals in the game, which only promote tier 1 units, and there's barely more than five tier 1 units anyway).

There are 5 master seals, but one must be bought. Anyways, I'm not sure that Wrath is good on Edward - if he gets hit, he often takes too little to get into wrath range, yet at the same time taking too much that another hit kills him (note that Wrath in RD has a 30% HP threshold - that's not much better than 3H's Defiants. That said, it can be effective... on Micaiah).

Anyway, I don't know if I stated this, but early promoting is only really worth it in the early FE games, and SoV, because of the mechanics of those games. Anything after Thracia that isn't SoV, on the other hand? I'm much more hard-pressed to consider promoting early the right call.

 

[Metal Flash]

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

>Is it FE6?

Yes.

>Play it

Well, that's my vote at least.

Yes, it is FE6 I am talking about, I just doubt many people would want to play a seperate tale focusing on some characters from a manga most people probably don`t even now existed. Not saying giving Al and co their own side story is a bad idea, just that I think only those curious about these characters will play it.

[DarkSage861]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:18 AM, ZeManaphy said:

What's wrong with Three Houses that makes it depressing? And I completely disagree that they stopped trying. If they had stopped trying to make a good game, they would not have collaborated with Koei Techmo to ensure they could create a game on the Switch, nor would they have delayed the game for a Summer launch if they did not want their title to succeed. 

Old post but I thought I reply anyway (I barely have time to check on here as much anymore) 

Sorry but Koei Techmo made the Switch FE games visually ugly, compared to the early Switch games or even the ones later, Fire Emblem has no excuses for the visuals to still look like a Wii game

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

There are 5 master seals, but one must be bought. Anyways, I'm not sure that Wrath is good on Edward - if he gets hit, he often takes too little to get into wrath range, yet at the same time taking too much that another hit kills him (note that Wrath in RD has a 30% HP threshold - that's not much better than 3H's Defiants. That said, it can be effective... on Micaiah).

Anyway, I don't know if I stated this, but early promoting is only really worth it in the early FE games, and SoV, because of the mechanics of those games. Anything after Thracia that isn't SoV, on the other hand? I'm much more hard-pressed to consider promoting early the right call.

 

The machines of Radiant Dawn  make promoting early for the Dawn Brigade very worthwhile too though. As unless you intend to bring them to the tower there image no disadvantages of early promoting your dawn brigade units and you will need a certain  number if them to clear the markedly nor difficult Dawn Brigade chapters.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Yes, it is FE6 I am talking about, I just doubt many people would want to play a seperate tale focusing on some characters from a manga most people probably don`t even now existed. Not saying giving Al and co their own side story is a bad idea, just that I think only those curious about these characters will play it.

If it's in the game people will play it. They're not going to ignore a chunk of the game because they don't know the characters. Now by that same token, putting in the effort to make an extra mode won't do much to sell many extra copies if the game because the characters are so minor, so there's little incentive to do it. Unless it's done really well and the gameplay of it is good enough to garner a reputation.

Sorry for the double post. Tried to amend but Serenes is being uncooperative. 

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Anyway, I don't know if I stated this, but early promoting is only really worth it in the early FE games, and SoV, because of the mechanics of those games. Anything after Thracia that isn't SoV, on the other hand? I'm much more hard-pressed to consider promoting early the right call.

Isn't early promoting considered optimal in Awakening, too? You get the second class skill as soon as level 10, and with infinite levelling, it's not as though you're missing out on level-ups. The only negative is that the next few level-ups take slightly longer than they would unpromoted. 

In any case, it's not like Dawn Brigade members can expect to hit 20/20/20 (at least, not without serious BEXPing). As such, I don't see early promoting causing them to miss out on many levels. And you can't even sell the Master Seals, so you may as well use the ones you find.

[Soapbar]

Conquest Chapter 18 (the one where Zola captures and threatens to execute all of the Hoshidan Royals) is not actually that poorly written. The only actual stupid part of it is the fact that Zola's men don't back down at all from, you know, the entire Nohrian Royal Family and their accompanying army telling them to stop. The actual politics of the matter are generally sound:

• Letting Zola go through with executing the Hoshidan Royals would leave a massive power vacuum in Hoshido. The end result is that while the war itself may end quicker than normal (highly debateable), there's still going to bloodshed for years, arguably for longer than if Nohr wins the war conventionally, as civil strife would engulf the country with the remaining Hoshidan nobles vying for the throne. Even if none of the above happened, Hoshido wouldn't forgive Nohr ever, all but ensuring that a follow-up conflict between the two countries is in the future.
• Stopping Zola's plan but then capturing the Hoshidan Royals anyways is still not very smart, as Garon would want their heads anyways, and trying to hide them is highly improbable, because of all the witnesses to the act, the fact that some of those witnesses (Izumo) are liable to be very pissed that Nohr broke a signed treaty and violated their sovereignty to capture them, and the fact that Hoshido is going to notice the fact that their royal family went missing in Izumo.
• Either of the above two plans (which I find that fans often suggest as the "right" courses of actions) will piss off Izumo, and likely many other neutral states, ruin Nohr's reputation on the world stage, making rebuilding after overthrowing Garon even harder than it's going to be, especially since neither of the plans were actually on the orders of Garon (Zola was acting on his own, IIRC). It would also make actually winning the war and getting Garon's fat ass onto the throne much harder, since a lot of those states would be liable to just up and declare war on Nohr, especially any that were already on the edge.

All of the above is also why Ryoma has no reason to be grateful to Corrin and co. since none of what happened in Chapter 18 should've happened in the first place, and the fact that it did only serves to further prove how far Nohr has fallen to the Hoshidan Royals. Saving the Hoshidan Royals and letting them go was not only morally right, it was literally the only sensible option. The fact that Hoshido forgives it happening in the first place is a miracle.

None of this is to imply that Conquest is well written as a whole (quite the opposite) but I've seen a lot of people on reddit, YT, and I also remember on here a few years ago, imply that Zola is some kind of unsung hero who would've ended the war without bloodshed if only stupid Corrin and co. didn't stop him, when the exact opposite is true and it's apparent if you spend more than 30 seconds thinking about it.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Soapbar

[Metal Flash]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

If it's in the game people will play it. They're not going to ignore a chunk of the game because they don't know the characters. Now by that same token, putting in the effort to make an extra mode won't do much to sell many extra copies if the game because the characters are so minor, so there's little incentive to do it. Unless it's done really well and the gameplay of it is good enough to garner a reputation.

Fair enough.

[Dark Holy Elf]

3 hours ago, Soapbar said:

Conquest Chapter 18 (the one where Zola captures and threatens to execute all of the Hoshidan Royals) is not actually that poorly written. The only actual stupid part of it is the fact that Zola's men don't back down at all from, you know, the entire Nohrian Royal Family and their accompanying army telling them to stop. The actual politics of the matter are generally sound:

Yeah, I .... honestly agree with everything here. As you note that part I find hardest to believe is that Zola and his followers don't back down when the Nohrian royal family tells them to. Like what is Zola's plan, kill all the royal family and then tell Garon "look at me, I captured and/or killed the Hoshidan royals for you, too bad all your kids died in the process". Seems unlikely to end the way he wants it to. 

[Etrurian emperor]

Zola comes off pretty favorable compared to Kotaro who also turns on the royal family and hopes that Garon won't mind. The difference is that Zola's plan might actually achieve something while Kotaro would rather turn both Nohr and Hoshido against him than give up a single captive who's not even that important. And even Corrin comes off better there because abusing the neutrality of a country and then kidnapping people probably goes against the Fates version of the Geneva convention.