Old tempest thread, plz delet

[Anacybele]

13 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

You can get a maximum of 705 points on a perfect Luantic 7 run.

I usually get 683 as I use two teams because of the blasted 40% bonus unit requirement so I get a B in survival.

It takes 20 stamina for a run, you can do 5 runs on a full stamina bar.

So that's over 3000 score on a full stamina bar if you can reliably complete lunatic 7.

Celica is always the final boss - her map tends to have lots of reds, so be prepared with a couple blues on the team you use for the final map.

That being said... it is a tedious grindfest. I completed Lunatic 7 with A speed / B survival on my first attempt. But to get the unique Seal I have to repeat that some 60 times. It does get boring and repetitive and tedious and stops being fun after a while. So I'm only planning to get to 40k points for the unique character and seal rewards.

Except I just said the second Lunatic isn't possible for me to beat because my strongest units don't do much damage at all. Of course I bring blues to that map, I'm not a noob.

But glad I'm not the only one that sees how tedious and boring it is.

[MrSmokestack]

24 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Except I just said the second Lunatic isn't possible for me to beat because my strongest units don't do much damage at all. Of course I bring blues to that map, I'm not a noob.

But glad I'm not the only one that sees how tedious and boring it is.

You have a Reinhardt. Give him R Tomebreaker, and suddenly Celica isn't a problem anymore.

[Bartozio]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I've played at least five, actually. I've tried every set that's there as of now. And that's impossible, you wouldn't have enough stamina for that unless you burned through every stamina potion you have, and would any player really use them all up at once?

Oh, well in that case, I quit. I don't like the way this works at all. It's too hard and too tedious. I don't want to defeat the same boss and play on the same maps over and over and over so many times like that just to get a few little rewards. No thanks.

Five times is very little though, if you consider you get rewards for doing 3 runs a day. I think this is the sixth day now, which means most people will have cleared it at least 18 times, more if they are trying for some prices.

Seeing the same boss appear all the time should be a blessing, because it means you can plan for it. At worst, pick a blue physical unit and stick red tome breaker on him.

I'll admit it's an annoying grindfest though.

Edit: @MrSmokestack if Reinhardt is +Atk, he can actually kill Celica with just an +Atk seal and a Hone Attack buff. Not necessarily relevant, but still felt like sharing. The seal and nature can of course be made up for with Spur Attack or Goad Cavalry if someone can easily fit that into a team (Olivia, Reinhardt, Camus, Boey/Alm might work).

Edited July 11, 2017 by Bartozio

[Anacybele]

My Reinhardt is not +Atk and I don't have R Tomebreaker fodder. At least none I'm willing to use on him. I only have an Odin for that and that's it, and I'd rather save it for someone who needs it more. As soon as I would finish with Celica, I'd be putting Vantage right back on Reinhardt because it's a better skill, imo.

And as I said, I quit. I'm not playing this mode anymore. If I feel like going for the next prize, which is some orbs, I will, but other than that, I don't want to bother anymore.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

@Anacybele If you do Hard 5, you can still get around 450 points. That's not that much of a drop off, you can still get over 2000 points on a full bar of stamina.

Do that twice per day, you have 4000 points. Ten days, and that's 40,000 for Tobin and the seal.

[Anacybele]

I'm aware. But it's still very tedious work and I'm not a big fan of stuff that's tedious.

[MrSmokestack]

30 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Edit: @MrSmokestack if Reinhardt is +Atk, he can actually kill Celica with just an +Atk seal and a Hone Attack buff. Not necessarily relevant, but still felt like sharing. The seal and nature can of course be made up for with Spur Attack or Goad Cavalry if someone can easily fit that into a team (Olivia, Reinhardt, Camus, Boey/Alm might work).

Mine is neutral with Quick Pulse + Moonbow and no horse buffs, since I have Briceload with the Atk seal along with Lukas and Olivia. I'll take what I can get!

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

My Reinhardt is not +Atk and I don't have R Tomebreaker fodder. At least none I'm willing to use on him. I only have an Odin for that and that's it, and I'd rather save it for someone who needs it more. As soon as I would finish with Celica, I'd be putting Vantage right back on Reinhardt because it's a better skill, imo.

Literally no one wants R Tomebreaker, it's the least used breaker aside from Axebreaker. At the very least Hard Mode will be easier if you do that.

But hey, it's your game, not mine.

[Cute Chao]

@Anacybele

To be honest, it can get tedious, but it's not hard,especially with a few nicely set up units. A 5* Reinhardt slays pretty much everything with an attack boost from a cavalry unit and lancebreaker. He can even kill Celica with an attack boost and luna activated. 

With Xander/Reinhardt/Azura/Alm, I'm getting mostly perfect runs. If you set up the SI right, maybe Frederick/Reinhardt/Dancer/Bonus Unit (if you have one) will also do that, if you wanted to go for it. 

If you don't want to go for it, fine. This mode just isn't for everyone. 

Incidentally, for Reinhardt, there are much better B Slot skills than Vantage... Lancebreaker, for instance, makes him kill pretty much every non-green unit in the game (except a few high resistance colourless and frickin' Nowi if Luna and Hone Cavalry aren't up), even with the inflated TT stats. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Cute Chao

[Roflolxp54]

Day 5 and I'm currently at score 73,290!

Reinhardt has learned Reposition and Spur Atk 3. Now using Spur Atk 3 though I still use Draw Back - may consider using Reposition sometime.

Donnel reached his first 500 HM. Legion, Ryoma, and Mae have more than 400 HM each now.

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

@Anacybele

To be honest, it can get tedious, but it's not hard,especially with a few nicely set up units. A 5* Reinhardt slays pretty much everything with an attack boost from a cavalry unit and lancebreaker. He can even kill Celica with an attack boost and luna activated. 

With Xander/Reinhardt/Azura/Alm, I'm getting mostly perfect runs. If you set up the SI right, maybe Frederick/Reinhardt/Dancer/Bonus Unit (if you have one) will also do that, if you wanted to go for it. 

If you don't want to go for it, fine. This mode just isn't for everyone. 

Incidentally, for Reinhardt, there are much better B Slot skills than Vantage... Lancebreaker, for instance, makes him kill pretty much every non-green unit in the game (except a few high resistance colourless and frickin' Nowi if Luna and Hone Cavalry aren't up), even with the inflated TT stats. 

I said I wasn't playing it anymore, so you're wasting your time trying to help, even though the effort is appreciated.

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

So yeah, I prefer Vantage for him.

[Roflolxp54]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

It's common practice for players to give Reinhardt Lancebreaker. Reinhardt may not be able to ORKO lance units (especially Jagen, who may not go down even with Lancebreaker equipped and proccing Moonbow during the quad-round) in Tempest Trials unless he has Lancebreaker. Lancebreaker can also save Reinhardt's life by ensuring that the enemy doesn't get to ORKO him in situations where he's forced to eat a hit.

Vantage is only good if Reinhardt were built to be an enemy phase unit, which isn't something he's built for. He's at his strongest when attacking during player phase and is incredibly fragile during enemy phase - he gets ORKO'd by Celica if it weren't for the defensive tile saving his ass.

[Rezzy]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I said I wasn't playing it anymore, so you're wasting your time trying to help, even though the effort is appreciated.

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

So yeah, I prefer Vantage for him.

Breakers let you hit twice on retaliation and let the enemy only get one attack on you.

Under normal circumstances, Reinhardt gets doubled by everybody in the game and only hits back once when he's not initiating combat.  R Tomebreaker lets him not get doubled when he gets attacked, and also lets him hit 4 times when initiating combat.

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I said I wasn't playing it anymore, so you're wasting your time trying to help, even though the effort is appreciated.

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

So yeah, I prefer Vantage for him.

Reinhardt has abysmal speed, and as a result is terrible at performing follow-up attacks. He has a brave weapon, allowing him to hit twice, but using a breaker skill to let him get a real follow-up attack lets him hit four times, which is fantastic.

Vantage, in contrast, can't stack with brave effects. It only lets him get one hit in, when he'd rather be doing two or more.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Othin

[Xaos Steel Wing]

So I'm trying to find ways to make completing Tempest runs as fast as possible. Not necessarily being stamina efficient, but being time and effort efficient.

Lately I've been doing Hard 5, but having my first team auto-battle.

Hector/Sharena/Mae/Maria - set them on autobattle, they can usually compete the first 3 levels on their own and do some damage on the 4th.

Then I switch to Xander/Camus/Rein/Olivia and quickly finish things off.

Yields some 400+ points with very minimal effort. So I can be watching TV or playing MOBAs and getting tempest points with minimal input.

@Anacybele I can understand that. Tedious, repetetive, and the rewards this time around aren't that great.

[Cute Chao]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I said I wasn't playing it anymore, so you're wasting your time trying to help, even though the effort is appreciated.

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

So yeah, I prefer Vantage for him.

Many lance units take more than two hits to go down, especially the high resistance ones. Jagen is the worst, but he's not the only one. 

Vantage on Reinhardt doesn't do much, I find. He's not really meant to be getting hit, so lancebreaker actually stops it happening in the first place, since all but green and some colourless are nigh on guaranteed to fall before him (again, not accounting for Celica's inflated stats, which need a few additional boosts). 

[MrSmokestack]

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why the hell would you give Reinhardt any breaker anyway when he already hits twice, now that I think about it. Breakers are for units who have trouble doubling. Reinhardt doesn't need to double since his tome functions like a brave weapon.

So yeah, I prefer Vantage for him.

Because of Dire Thunder, Reinhardt can attack 4 times if he has a weaponbreaker equipped, and Lancebreaker is the one that gives him the best matchup spread out of all of them, generally speaking.

In Tempest Trials, inflated enemy stats make KO's much harder, which is where breakers can close the gap. Reinhardt's counter damage is very poor and he lacks the Spd to avoid getting doubled and KO'd, so his default Vantage is, bluntly put, utterly useless for him as a Player Phase unit. R Tomebreaker is fantastic for Celica since she one-rounds him otherwise, and with an Atk buff he can even ORKO her back.

EDIT: Here come the ninjas.

Edited July 11, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Anacybele]

Okay, wow, I didn't need a million people quoting me. And it doesn't matter, I still like Vantage more than breaker skills on units like Reinhardt. Just let me play my game the way I want to...

[DehNutCase]

28 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

In Tempest Trials, inflated enemy stats make KO's much harder, which is where breakers can close the gap. Reinhardt's counter damage is very poor and he lacks the Spd to avoid getting doubled and KO'd, so his default Vantage is, bluntly put, utterly useless for him as a Player Phase unit.

Clearly someone isn't using -blade Close Counter Reinhardt, the Reinhardt'est of Reinhardts.

Personally I haven't noticed the stats being that inflated---might just be because my offensive units are the very best in the game, though. Optimal IV Cordelia and optimal boon Nino alongside about 2 whole teams of 'good enough' IV damage dealers. Then again, even Selena doesn't have troubles ORKOing. *Shrugg*

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Clearly someone isn't using -blade Close Counter Reinhardt, the Reinhardt'est of Reinhardts.

Personally I haven't noticed the stats being that inflated---might just be because my offensive units are the very best in the game, though. Optimal IV Cordelia and optimal boon Nino alongside about 2 whole teams of 'good enough' IV damage dealers. Then again, even Selena doesn't have troubles ORKOing. *Shrugg*

Pretty sure you're missing a kappa there buddy.

That 40k build is pretty nice but I'm not investing more than the 20k+ I already have bumping my own Reinfart to 5* along with all the 4* promotions I've done getting him his skills.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Pretty sure you're missing a kappa there buddy.

That 40k build is pretty nice but I'm not investing more than the 20k+ I already have bumping my own Reinfart to 5* along with all the 4* promotions I've done getting him his skills.

No kappa, -blade is just fucking strong. L&D +atk/-res +6 all stats Reinhardt only leaves 2 survivors. Anna and Titania. S-seal, sadly, doesn't make a difference, Rein needs a +4 and an Atk S-seal to OHKO Anna.

That's another 40k build, though.

[MrSmokestack]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

No kappa, -blade is just fucking strong. L&D +atk/-res +6 all stats Reinhardt only leaves 2 survivors. Anna and Titania. S-seal, sadly, doesn't make a difference, Rein needs a +4 and an Atk S-seal to OHKO Anna.

That's another 40k build, though.

Yeah I remember seeing that exact build somewhere on here, I thought it was pretty nice but at the same time I don't really think the sheer expense can be justified. Dire Thunder is his niche, right?

To be fair, Chrom wants a Brave Sword more than he wants Falchion, but Dire Thunder and Falchion are hardly comparable, like at all.

Edited July 11, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[DehNutCase]

18 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Yeah I remember seeing that exact build somewhere on here, I thought it was pretty nice but at the same time I don't really think the sheer expense can be justified. Dire Thunder is his niche, right?

Being Reinhardt is his niche. Olwen also has dire thunder, but you don't see her pulling off the ridiculous crap he does*, his stat spread is just too good.

38/32/23/27/25

One of the highest hp mages, letting him run Hp seal & panic ploy to counter opposing -blade users. 32 Atk (equivalent to 36 infantry Atk because of either -blade or Dire Thunder double dipping from Hone's +6), 23 speed is 34 after L&D and Hone, which doubles anyone with the bulk not to get OHKOd (barring Titania and Anna), 27/25 defenses are also enough to survive almost everyone on defense after cav buffs, which is what enables his Close Counter Vantage build, since after the first fight he just  Vantage OHKOs everyone.

32 Atk is tied for highest amongst cavalry, and only 3 less than S!Camilla (infantry with higher Atk doesn't matter because they suffer form a +4 cap on buffs rather than +6), and he also has a better color than S!Camilla and Cecillia. (Cecillia is the other 32 Atk cav).

 

Reinhardt is a combination of broken things: Tome access, Cavalry, excellent spread, right color.

 

Edit:

*Maxed out Olwen in desperation range only leaves 1 survivor, Titania, with the L&D brave build, but outside desperation Hector OHKOs. But she doesn't have the hp to run panic ploy. Arthur also survives her without atk seal.

Edited July 11, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Rezzy]

29 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Clearly someone isn't using -blade Close Counter Reinhardt, the Reinhardt'est of Reinhardts.

Personally I haven't noticed the stats being that inflated---might just be because my offensive units are the very best in the game, though. Optimal IV Cordelia and optimal boon Nino alongside about 2 whole teams of 'good enough' IV damage dealers. Then again, even Selena doesn't have troubles ORKOing. *Shrugg*

Aren't Olwen or Ursula better candidates for Blue Blade?  They can pretty easily be put into doubling territory.

[DehNutCase]

18 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Aren't Olwen or Ursula better candidates for Blue Blade?  They can pretty easily be put into doubling territory.

No. Reinhardt's Atk lead means everyone they need to double to KO, he OHKOs, everyone they can't KO, he's fast enough to double after buffs.

Edit: Olwen does comparably on offense, but suffers from: A, not enough hp to run panic ploy to counter res buffs, and b, not having the bulk to live through bullshit on the enemy phase.

Olwen actually manages to double and KO Anna, which Reinhardt can't without +4 levels & Atk seal, but every other KO Reinhardt manages without needing a seal, meaning he can Hp seal & Panic ploy. Olwen also has 27 losses on defense versus Reinhardt's 4.

The only one who survives both Olwen and Rein is Titania, who's fast enough to avoid Reinhardt's double and bulky enough to survive Olwen's double. Anna survives Rein but not Olwen, and Arthur survives Olwen if she isn't running Atk 1 seal. (This leaves her vulnerable to panic ploys, though.)

Double edit: Actually, looking at it, Ursula also performs similarly, but both Ursula and Olwen suffer from the fact that they need to be already under desperation range to kill people like Hector, who OHKOs, whereas Rein can just charge in, tank a hit, and get into desperation from the counter. Ursula can't kill Aurthur no matter what she does, though.

Triple Edit: Actually, if you only have the resources to +6/+6 rather than +6 all stats, Rein doesn't reach 'critical Atk mass' where he OHKOs everyone who he can't double, so Olwen and Ursula would do better in situations where you can only bring 2 cavalry to a map, since they kill more with +6/+6.

Unless, of course, you're facing lots of B-tome breakers, which completely negate O & U's speed lead while keeping Rein's Atk lead. (Only 9 survivors vs. maxed out Rein when everyone has B-tome breaker. -blade is such a balanced tome. Even Olwen and Ursula only leave 16 alive.)

Edited July 11, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Rezzy]

15 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

No. Reinhardt's Atk lead means everyone they need to double to KO, he OHKOs, everyone they can't KO, he's fast enough to double after buffs.

Edit: Olwen does comparably on offense, but suffers from: A, not enough hp to run panic ploy to counter res buffs, and b, not having the bulk to live through bullshit on the enemy phase.

Olwen actually manages to double and KO Anna, which Reinhardt can't without +4 levels & Atk seal, but every other KO Reinhardt manages without need a seal, meaning he can Hp seal & Panic ploy. Olwen also has 27 losses on defense versus Reinhardt's 4.

The only one who survives both Olwen and Rein is Titania, who's fast enough to avoid Reinhardt's double and bulky enough to survive Olwen's double. Anna survives Rein but not Olwen, and Arthur survives Olwen if she isn't running Atk 1 seal. (This leaves her vulnerable to panic ploys, though.)

Double edit: Actually, looking at it, Ursula also performs similarly, but both Ursula and Olwen suffer from the fact that they need to be already under desperation range to kill people like Hector, who OHKOs, whereas Rein can just charge in, tank a hit, and get into desperation from the counter.

What all buffs are those calculations taking into account?  Is it just Fort/Hone or does it require Goad Cavalry?  What is Panic Ploy isn't taken into account?  I run double Hone/Fortify on my Horse Emblem team, so the whole team's strong, rather than one powerful nuke.