Scorched Grand Hero Battle: Valter, the Moonstone

[Sonnua]

9 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Cordelia is overall better as an offensive unit probably, with her statline making her offense ridiculously forceful, but Valter seems much more flexible. He may not be as offensive, but he should still be dangerous enough, especially with quicker specials. His good Def, decent Spd and fast specials means he can function as an enemy phase unit as well, which Cordelia cannot do, and, to my understanding, is something Flier Emblem does not have much of aside from Green.

True, Cordelia rarely survives an attack and her only use is that to kill then reposition away to safety. I doubt Valter's addition will hurt Cordelias position in any flier emblem though if Valter can get high success as Cordelia  does during player phase, he might be a candidate that can be seriously worth considering.

 

(Sorry about double post)

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Sonnua

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

Gotta heavily disagree there.

I ran Priscilla during the first TT for a short while. She got benched within a day. And I was running a full cavalry team. They're still pretty awful, too much of a liability and still not enough damage even with Wrathful Staff. Better to kill things in one hit than to have to rely on trying to heal it up afterwards. 

They just have no place. Even with the inflated stats in some modes you are frequently 1SKing, or you can have multiple teams in one run through so you just need to reach X map and then you can go to your secondary team. You're only punished for it in TT, might as well take advantage of that fact in other modes. 

It depends on what kind of team you run, Player Phase vs Enemy Phase. If your team is primarily Enemy Phase (Nowi, Hector etc.), then you would run RBG killers, and then a healer to keep Quick Riposte active or maybe Fury damage in check. A Player Phase oriented team would just slot in a Dancer instead.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Sonnua said:

So apart from  the fact that Valter  initiates Bonfire in first attack during enemy phase, what other benefits does QP give? 

Nothing else much.

 

Speaking of Quickened Pulse, though. Valter (and Minerva) both have the stats to feasibly run their exclusive weapons and Quickened Pulse to get a 3-charge Galeforce, which activates at the end of their first round of combat (assuming they don't one-hit kill).

[Sonnua]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nothing else much.

 

Speaking of Quickened Pulse, though. Valter (and Minerva) both have the stats to feasibly run their exclusive weapons and Quickened Pulse to get a 3-charge Galeforce, which activates at the end of their first round of combat (assuming they don't one-hit kill).

So wouldn't it be better to give another unit Quickened pulse if it isn't highly required for Valter and another unit might love it ? Or running Ignis instead of Bonfire(overkill though imo) . I mean in arena it's already uncommon one is going to get hit by a melee unit as first enemy to hit. So using bonfire + QP won't be that good during enemy phase  in arena

 

 

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Sonnua said:

So wouldn't it be better to give another unit Quickened pulse if it isn't highly required for Valter and another unit might love it ? Or running Ignis instead of Bonfire(overkill though imo) . I mean in arena it's already uncommon one is going to get hit by a melee unit as first enemy to hit. So using bonfire + QP won't be that good during enemy phase  in arena

It basically depends on whether or not your team has another unit that depends on its special skill. Anytime a Sacred Seal is recommended for a build, it by default makes the assumption that no other unit on your team has greater need for it.

[NekoKnight]

On 07/29/2017 at 2:33 AM, Othin said:

You're looking at it the wrong way.

Aside from Wyvern Knights in FE8, every class that's referred to as a "wyvern rider" class in English is referred to as a "dragon knight" class in Japanese. So all the other "wyvern" riding characters are depicted in Heroes as riding dragons, while Valter, due to being an "actual" wyvern rider, has an actual wyvern.

Or to stick to the English nomenclature of calling them "wyverns", we could say Valter rides a snake-wyvern, while every other character in the FE series that typically rides wyverns rides a dragon-wyvern instead. (Cormag can promote to Wyvern Knight and ride a snake-wyvern, but his base class, Wyvern Rider, uses a dragon-wyvern.)

While the class name might stay "Dragon Knight" in Japanese, the Fates/Awakening "dragons" have 4 limbs, as you would expect of a wyvern.

10 hours ago, Lushen said:

Elincia as a healer would be infinity better than Elincia with Amiti.  With Amiti, no matter how good she is, she is still just another sword user.  She is the only unit I can think of that could pass as a healer flying unit so if you want to do a flying team, she would be the Elise/Priscilla of flying emblems.  Not to mention, during her story she may take up a sword and fight with her soldiers but she was defending the castle from the back lines with a ranged healing staff.  She's always been a healer first and attacker second.  Most of her character art gives her a staff.

A legendary tier Brave Sword is nothing to sneeze at. Catria and Palla are both underwhelming as sword fliers so I can see Elincia easily having a place on flier teams. If they want a flying healer, they can do Sumia or another Fates/Awakening Falcon Knight.

[Sonnua]

37 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It basically depends on whether or not your team has another unit that depends on its special skill. Anytime a Sacred Seal is recommended for a build, it by default makes the assumption that no other unit on your team has greater need for it.

Ah Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

 

Should Valter retain panic ploy or should he get a flier buff for the flier team ?

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Sonnua

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

24 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

While the class name might stay "Dragon Knight" in Japanese, the Fates/Awakening "dragons" have 4 limbs, as you would expect of a wyvern.

A legendary tier Brave Sword is nothing to sneeze at. Catria and Palla are both underwhelming as sword fliers so I can see Elincia easily having a place on flier teams. If they want a flying healer, they can do Sumia or another Fates/Awakening Falcon Knight.

I thought wyverns were the ones to have only two legs.

Also, I think you're thinking of Caeda, not Catria lol.

6 minutes ago, Sonnua said:

Should Valter retain panic ploy or should he get a flier buff for the flier team ?

Buffs are probably better in a Flier team, especially if you're running a flying mage.

[NekoKnight]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I thought wyverns were the ones to have only two legs.

Also, I think you're thinking of Caeda, not Catria lol.

Buffs are probably better in a Flier team, especially if you're running a flying mage.

Wings are limbs too. Most "wyverns" in the series have 6 limbs instead of 4. 

But you're right, I meant Caeda.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Wings are limbs too. Most "wyverns" in the series have 6 limbs instead of 4. 

Oh, okay. That makes sense then.

[Ice Dragon]

52 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

While the class name might stay "Dragon Knight" in Japanese, the Fates/Awakening "dragons" have 4 limbs, as you would expect of a wyvern.

While that is true, the 4-limbed flying dragons still have an obvious torso whereas Magvel's snake-wyverns very much do not and simply look like snakes with wings and legs.

[eclipse]

6 hours ago, Sonnua said:

(Sorry about double post)
 

Since I handed out way more warning points today than normal, you're getting this little message in a reply instead.  USE THE EDIT BUTTON to add stuff to your most recent post.  If you want to quote multiple people, the little plus sign next to Quote enables Multiquote.

Now, for Valter's C slot, I'd normally run a buff.  However, the only one I can obtain without too much headache is Goad Fliers. . .and that's assuming Palla doesn't donate anything else in her kit to someone else.  I think Panic Ploy is fine as-is, and should be replaced if you somehow have extras of the important stuff (which IIRC is tied to Hinoka, WHY).

[Sonnua]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

Since I handed out way more warning points today than normal, you're getting this little message in a reply instead.  USE THE EDIT BUTTON to add stuff to your most recent post.  If you want to quote multiple people, the little plus sign next to Quote enables Multiquote.

Now, for Valter's C slot, I'd normally run a buff.  However, the only one I can obtain without too much headache is Goad Fliers. . .and that's assuming Palla doesn't donate anything else in her kit to someone else.  I think Panic Ploy is fine as-is, and should be replaced if you somehow have extras of the important stuff (which IIRC is tied to Hinoka, WHY).

Apologies for it.

Well it's a good thing in a way because we don't have too.many flier teams in arena to fight against. Fighting them for the 7th win won't be highly desirable.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

11 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

It depends on what kind of team you run, Player Phase vs Enemy Phase. If your team is primarily Enemy Phase (Nowi, Hector etc.), then you would run RBG killers, and then a healer to keep Quick Riposte active or maybe Fury damage in check. A Player Phase oriented team would just slot in a Dancer instead.

Yeah QR + Healing is pretty nice, especially if you plan out the fury chips, but i disagree that Player Phase oriented team would slot in a dancer instead. If anything you would slot both Dancer and Healing because they synergizes ridiculously well together

 

Although personally i didn't like Wrathful Staff. Dazzle is cool, but it might as well not exist

Edited July 31, 2017 by JSND

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, JSND said:

Yeah QR + Healing is pretty nice, especially if you plan out the fury chips, but i disagree that Player Phase oriented team would slot in a dancer instead. If anything you would slot both Dancer and Healing because they synergizes ridiculously well together

 

Although personally i didn't like Wrathful Staff. Dazzle is cool, but it might as well not exist

It depends. If you're running Blade or something, which is enough to cover two colors and even some of the third with one unit, then you can afford to have a healer instead of three attackers. Though, would you even? Since you'd just be doing Desperation shenanigans.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

5 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

It depends. If you're running Blade or something, which is enough to cover two colors and even some of the third with one unit, then you can afford to have a healer instead of three attackers. Though, would you even? Since you'd just be doing Desperation shenanigans.

The context is EP team lol

My back up squad used to be something like Olivia, Camus, Hector, Healer/Eliwood, Camus, Hector and honestly he former are more effective at times because of the possibility of double Healing(not by far though. Eliwood is the only Repos on that set up). Vantage just isn't enough to score one shot a lot of time, so often i'd intentionally drop Camus to 1 HP, then use Rehab to full heal

 

If i run Blade my healer would be Ursula, because i would be doing Desperation Shenanigans on her and her alone

Edited July 31, 2017 by JSND

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, JSND said:

The context is EP team lol

My back up squad used to be something like Olivia, Camus, Hector, Healer/Eliwood, Camus, Hector and honestly he former are more effective at times because of the possibility of double Healing(not by far though. Eliwood is the only Repos on that set up)

 

If i run Blade my healer would be Ursula, because i would be doing Desperation Shenanigans on her and her alone

Oh, I thought you were saying a healer shouldn't be taken out of a PP team since you didn't specify.

I don't have a Ruby Sword Olivia to cover my ass, and I don't really have great EP Reds.

Edited July 31, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Oh, I thought you were saying a healer shouldn't be taken out of a PP team since you didn't specify.

Really my main point is that Dancer is still good in EP team

I've seen people saying Dancer is only OP because the game is PP based, but an EP game is Echoes and Echoes is a shit game if anything Dancer is just as good because they can copy your units if you need to position properly

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 minutes ago, JSND said:

Really my main point is that Dancer is still good in EP team

I've seen people saying Dancer is only OP because the game is PP based, but an EP game is Echoes and Echoes is a shit game if anything Dancer is just as good because they can copy your units if you need to position properly

Well, there's a big limit to how bad a second move can be, so yeah.

[GuiltyLove]

1 hour ago, JSND said:

Echoes is a shit game

Rude SwiftRage

[Othin]

1 hour ago, JSND said:

Really my main point is that Dancer is still good in EP team

I've seen people saying Dancer is only OP because the game is PP based, but an EP game is Echoes and Echoes is a shit game if anything Dancer is just as good because they can copy your units if you need to position properly

Echoes is like the only FE game that isn't enemy phase oriented.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, Othin said:

Echoes is like the only FE game that isn't enemy phase oriented.

Thats FE12 and FE11

 

Echoes is HILARIOUSLY enemy phase based. I can't remember any stage where i didn't clear it by pressing End Turn repeatedly

Edited July 31, 2017 by JSND

[MrSmokestack]

30 minutes ago, JSND said:

Thats FE12 and FE11

Echoes is HILARIOUSLY enemy phase based. I can't remember any stage where i didn't clear it by pressing End Turn repeatedly

More EP-oriented than Awakening though?

[Othin]

2 hours ago, JSND said:

Thats FE12 and FE11

 

Echoes is HILARIOUSLY enemy phase based. I can't remember any stage where i didn't clear it by pressing End Turn repeatedly

Maybe you're playing it wrong.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

More EP-oriented than Awakening though?

Awakening at least have like the early chapter i guess

Idk how a game that is essentially giant square with some chokepoint the entire god damn game that is echoes even exist

Edited July 31, 2017 by JSND