Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Codename Shrimp]

35 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Shadow Dragon took the opposite approach. It added some quality of life features, took out the most glaring of gameplay mistakes and reworked the classes and promotions to the more recognizable form. The lack of story, villains and personality of the cast were all left unaddressed. The end result is a game that's very functional and plays a lot like the ''vanilla'' Fire emblem games. If someone is sensitive to obvious flaws then its gameplay might easily beat out Echoes. On the other hand it also lacks an identity. Its not a one of a kind FE experience like Echoes or Genealogy. It plays like familiar Fire emblem games like Sacred Stones, path of Radiance and blazing sword......but unlike those games Shadow dragon fails to present anything interesting to go with that functional gameplay. So why play that game when you can also have the same gameplay experience from other games that do have a decent story, personality, charm and villains? With Echoes it simple, you won't get that gameplay and cast of characters anywhere else so you stomach the flaws to get to the good stuff. I'm very prepared to go do that for Genealogy as well if they expand on the story and characters. On the other hand I'd find it unacceptable if the game got streamlined but deprived of its unique features or of the expanding its cast and story so clearly need. 

or they could do both and improve both gameplay and Story.

Improving gameplay =/= making it a clone. 

As someone who plays games mainly for fun gameplay (except for Trails series), Story alone isn't enough to satisfy me. Even if you have the best Masterpiece to ever exist, if the gameplay is a bile of garbage, then so i will see the game as a whole. I can stomache bad Characters if it means i can get good gameplay (which is also why i love Conquest so much, for example).

FE4 has alot of good/unique stuff going for, it's high point being the A+ Gameplay Story integration. However i can never in my life play the game again, no matter how much i love Gen 1 characters, because it's just not fun and a chore to go through, and the game is easy af, too. If they fix the gameplay problems (balance, enemy unit cluster and general weakness, ITEM MANAGEMENT.) i can see it becoming best FE very fast, but if one of those things even stays in the remake, especially the item Management, i am not gonna touch it.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Jave]

7 hours ago, BBM said:

tbf fe4 wasn't really meant to be played blind. iirc you got a guide with the game that would tell you about the need to pair people, as well as where the hidden events like Hero Axe, Pursuit Ring, etc. were. 

but to a certain extent fe4 and especially fe5 were both designed to be ragequit games

Nope. FE4 had a guide, but it didn't come with the game. All you got with the game were the box, the cart, and the manual, and probably some promotional pamphlets.

The guide is also quite rare to find in comparison to the game.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

or they could do both and improve both gameplay and Story.

Improving gameplay =/= making it a clone. 

As someone who plays games mainly for fun gameplay (except for Trails series), Story alone isn't enough to satisfy me. Even if you have the best Masterpiece to ever exist, if the gameplay is a bile of garbage, then so i will see the game as a whole. I can stomache bad Characters if it means i can get good gameplay (which is also why i love Conquest so much, for example).

FE4 has alot of good/unique stuff going for, it's high point being the A+ Gameplay Story integration. However i can never in my life play the game again, no matter how much i love Gen 1 characters, because it's just not fun and a chore to go through, and the game is easy af, too. If they fix the gameplay problems (balance, enemy unit cluster and general weakness, ITEM MANAGEMENT.) i can see it becoming best FE very fast, but if one of those things even stays in the remake, especially the item Management, i am not gonna touch it.

Yeah, but you need to understand just because you don't like the gameplay, doesn't make it actually flawed. I like the item management, and the fact that so many people here argued in favor of it means a lot of others do. You might just have to accept that the Gameplay of Genealogy of the Holy War just isn't suited towards your subjective tastes.

[Jave]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but you need to understand just because you don't like the gameplay, doesn't make it actually flawed. I like the item management, and the fact that so many people here argued in favor of it means a lot of others do. You might just have to accept that the Gameplay of Genealogy of the Holy War just isn't suited towards your subjective tastes.

The problem with this is that people have different views on what a potential FE4 remake could or should be, and given this thread is about ideas for an FE4 remake, people should be allowed to post what they would like to see on it. A lot of people (me included) feel FE4 has several bad design choices, which heavily affect the gameplay and that is something that I would like to see fixed or at least somewhat streamlined in the remake. FE4 is a game that I feel has tons of potential, but is held back by its design choices and limitations.

For example, regarding the big maps, if they can keep them and make them work, then that's amazing and bring them on. But if they can't do that then I won't object to cutting them down. It may not be as faithful to the original, but I'm always open to try new things, and if it makes the game more enjoyable, so be it.

I personally feel all the opinions posted in the thread are valid, even if I don't agree with some of them. But if people are going to start telling others "Those who want changes in FE4's gameplay should just leave and play a different game", then I don't think that's a fair thing to say and basically defeats the point of even having this topic. Not to mention, it's one of those things that gives this fandom a bad rep in the first place.

[Refa]

^Trade system would add nothing meaningful to the game in practice, people just want it because they want FE4 to conform to the standards of other FE games.  I can understand why people would want the map size reduces for several reasons, even if I don't agree with it myself.

GAMEPLAY

Mounts should be nerfed in some meaningful way, maybe by having one less move across the board.

Non sword/wind magic weapon types could stand to be buffed in some capacity as well.  Maybe nerf swords/wind magic too, I dunno.

I'm torn between liking how comically overpowered Holy Weapons are and wanting something more balanced.

I can understand the lover's system being opaque, but secret conversations should be more transparent.  Maybe there should be clearly defined event tiles or base menu conversations that hint at it more clearly.  OP mentioned having a base of sorts between chapters and I thought that was a good idea.

Playable Ishtar/Areone please. ;_;

STORY

More conversations between characters in general.  I like all of the characters, but I want to see more of them.  FE15 did a good job, but I'd like more in this regard.

A lot of the story is hidden behind art books and developer interviews.  Put that shit back in the game.

Explain character motivations, especially that of the villains, more clearly.  A lot is left up to interpretation, and leaves people like Manfroy coming up as more comically evil than intended.  Also just develop the Verdane guys in general, or maybe rewrite them entirely.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Refa

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, Refa said:

^Trade system would add nothing meaningful to the game in practice, people just want it because they want FE4 to conform to the standards of other FE games.  I can understand why people would want the map size reduces for several reasons, even if I don't agree with it myself.

GAMEPLAY

Mounts should be nerfed in some meaningful way, maybe by having one less move across the board.

Non sword/wind magic weapon types could stand to be buffed in some capacity as well.  Maybe nerf swords/wind magic too, I dunno.

I'm torn between liking how comically overpowered Holy Weapons are and wanting something more balanced.

I can understand the lover's system being opaque, but secret conversations should be more transparent.  Maybe there should be clearly defined event tiles or base menu conversations that hint at it more clearly.  OP mentioned having a base of sorts between chapters and I thought that was a good idea.

Playable Ishtar/Areone please. ;_;

STORY

More conversations between characters in general.  I like all of the characters, but I want to see more of them.  FE15 did a good job, but I'd like more in this regard.

A lot of the story is hidden behind art books and developer interviews.  Put that shit back in the game.

Explain character motivations, especially that of the villains, more clearly.  A lot is left up to interpretation, and leaves people like Manfroy coming up as more comically evil than intended.  Also just develop the Verdane guys in general, or maybe rewrite them entirely.

I pretty much agree with everything here. 

Although i've always wanted to see some castle siege situations for foot units, but it'd probably make the game a tad clunky unless they did them as a seperate thing like Advanced Wars dual strike.

[Refa]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:27 PM, GreatHylian said:

Now that Shadows of Valentia has been released and has found success in Japan and all over the world, it seems like IS wants to continue the "Echoes" sub-series. For now it seems like they're leaning toward remaking Binding Blade but I can still hope that Genealogy of the Holy War will get a glorious and proper remake. Assuming that a Genealogy Echoes will be released, what kind of things do you want to see in it? I have a few ideas:

• Lots and lots of animated cut scenes. GotHW has the best story in FE so I would love to see as much of it developed as possible. Side-stories, flashbacks, all that good stuff.
• Breaks during the chapters. It not news to anyone that the maps are huge and have a lot of empty space, so breaking them up with cut scenes and a camp or something will make the maps less overwhelming.
• Add the possibility to get ALL holy weapons. Make it so Lex's kids can inherit Helswath and Azel's kids can get Valflame, etc.
• More lovers(support) conversations for all the characters
• Bonus chapters for other scenarios like Ares retaking Agustria
• Excellent orchestrations of the OST and new music
• Fully voice acted(or mostly like SoV)

Fully animated cutscenes, breaks during the chapters, more conversations, bonus chapters, and orchestrations are all great ideas that I really want added.  They all do so much for the game, especially the cutscenes.  FE can tend to feel really static at times, and they help out a lot.

Everyone getting a Holy weapon kind of takes away from the severity of the conflict where you're literally killing half of the scions of these bloodlines.  Also imbalances the gameplay further, which isn't something FE4 needs help with.

Unpopular opinion but I'm really hoping the next FE game isn't fully voice acted.  You could tell it affected the game in how limited the support options were and how a lot of characters didn't really get to talk much after recruited.  I loved the voice acting in FE15, but I'd rather have more dialogue.

On 8/14/2017 at 4:33 PM, Jingle Jangle said:

Want I want from a Fire Emblem 4 Echoes reboot is (I didn't play the game mind you)

• A different artist. While I enjoyed the artist from Echoes. Having a different artist makes it feel like a different world.
• Cameos from Thracia 776 to have a hints of a sequel to the game.
• Some kind of memory prisms to clarity what happens between the time skip.
• Have some of the substitutes characters to  be side characters.
• An in game wiki like in New Mystery, This game can be complicated with character relationships

All of these are pretty great ideas.  I'd really want the memory prisms to elaborate more on the villains in particular, and shit that we only hear about in passing (e.g. the Gen 1 women who did survive).

I don't think substitute characters need to be side characters, but that they should get more fleshed out in their own right.

On 8/15/2017 at 3:06 PM, Rapier said:

I think the Castle should also be used for marriage. When certain characters have a S rank with each other, you may choose the option Marry in the Castle, choose the units and then declare their marriage officially (with a small animated scene, like with Promotions).

Also, I've seen two iconic elements of FE4 being criticized: The Pawn Shop and the large maps. The Pawn Shop is as rooted in FE4's mechanics as Gaiden's arts and spells system, it is responsible for most of the game's inventory management and its challenges, which is why in my opinion it should be kept. I think the characters should still limit themselves to the Pawn Shop, but make it so that married units can trade with each other.

I'd like extra chapters like FE12's, where you get to play historical battles mentioned during the game, such as Leinster's Fall, Alvis' conquest of Silesia (which could be an entire campaign, as could Ares' reconquest of Agustria and Jamka's children's reconquest of Verdane), the Miracle of Darna, Leif retaking the castle from Chapter 6 (prior to its events), Sety defending what's-that-castle's-name-again (from Chapter 7) from Thracia.

These are all good ideas.  Maybe make it so that siblings can trade as well.

On 9/7/2017 at 11:03 PM, Vaximillian said:

The only change I would make to the pawn shop is allowing everybody to buy anything: the shopkeep shouldn’t just shrug if, e. g., Lex came and asked for a silver blade. He might want to make a wedding present to Ayra, you know.

And yeah, you should be able to choose how much gold you want to transfer from a thief or between lovers instead of dumping everything until the max.

Now, graphical and sound upgrades are obvious things, and I don’t think I even need to elaborate on these. I’m still sort of conflicted on whether they would remake that glorious 80’s hair in full 3D, tone it down as in Thracia, or redesign the characters completely from scratch like Hidari did for E:SoV. They do need to make an effort to make Eldigan and Ares look a bit more different, same for Lachesis and Nanna, Ayra and Larcei. Deirdre and Julia already have this toned down (Deirdre’s hair is wavy, Julia’s is straight), so I’m more indifferent on these.

Hard agree on these two.  Just makes the game a lot more convenient to play really.

I agree that the design differences should be more pronounced, but considering FE15 already did that, I'm not too worried.

On 10/3/2017 at 5:23 AM, Dayni said:

-The kids keeping their usual classes is something I'm actually not so certain on: What if they could either have a different class or they might gain certain attributes or weapons based on their parents? For example, pairing Lex with Ayra could allow their kids to use axes? It could allow some interesting features and make certain pairings more interesting than trash (Stuff like Holyn/Aideen might actually make sense to use now)

That'd be interesting.  Could also add more conversations that give stat boosts or even give skills to help out the weaker pairings.

On 1/17/2018 at 12:45 PM, Jingle Jangle said:

From completing FE4, my list changed:

• Reduce the amount of telling compared to the amount shown, so much of the game's lore is told.I want to see for myself Ishtar saving the kids rather than a person inform me.
• Don't make the villains hold all the power. For majority of the story, Manfroy and Julius hold all the cards. Able to successfully manipulate almost the entire continent. It cheapen  Sigurd and Seliph's journey when they don't stand a chance from the start.
• Make Seliph's victory in the end more satisfying. To only reason that he won was because Arvis allowed him to claim Tyrfing. Then Manfroy has an idiot moment is leaves Julia alive. In any other story that would be considered cheap.
• Make Deirdre and Julia feel less is plot objects. I understand that they have a important status in the story, but at least give them more interactions in the story.
• Reduce the plot armor from the villains, Manfroy is one of the most ridiculous antagonists in the series, the only reason his plan succeeded was because the story wanted him to. How did he captured Deirdre, because the plot wanted it, and the list goes on.

Yeah, some of the plot elements had room for improvement.  I'm more worried about the villains getting improvement over the heroes, honestly.

On 4/5/2018 at 2:11 AM, BBM said:

i'm okay with a pretty faithful rendering of FE4. tbh I would be fine if non-utility/non-holy weapon infantry sucked again but some balance suggestions:

I would probably just nerf holy weapon bonuses so that you're not almost useless without one in Gen 2 and make the maps a bit smaller and remove roads. Roads only exacerbate the move difference between infantry and mounted units, and making map size smaller would remove the need. I would probably also remove the weapon crit bonus, or reduce the max crit you can get. It just adds a snowball effect with regards to beating the game with a handful of characters, when FE4 was trying to go for a whole army vs army thing.

Better suggestion: Make it so that only infantry units benefit from road tiles.

[BBM]

the weapon triangle isn't SUPPOSED to be balanced. yes, axes suck, but guess what, you only get one gen 1 axe unit and he has a mount and gets his own Hero weapon and has Elite and is one of the 3 best units in gen 1 anyways. lances aren't great, but again only mounted units can use them. fire sucks, thunder is a bit better, and wind is best- so then it makes sense that that's the exact order in which azel gets his weapons.

again, if sigurd isn't there in gen 1 (or hell, if you even take away his mount) you can't horse emblem the game. lex is basically just an elite-bot father if you don't know about the Hero Axe event, and even if you do he's 1-range locked because Hand Axes suck. plus, he very quickly reaches a point where enemies don't even attack him on EP. cuan can't orko and faces WTD for half the time he's around. noish doesn't have pursuit, alec has it but is mediocre otherwise (especially if you nerf magic swords). fin has pursuit but faces WTD and lances aren't good and Prayer is pretty difficult to set up. midir is bow-locked. jamka is bow locked without a horse but has better stats. ayra/holyn have very good offence but no mounts. dew is purposely shitty at combat because he's the only one who can pass money around (and he has a hidden magic sword event, good growths, and a good promo class if you succeed in using him). lachesis is purposely crappy before promo because she promotes into the best class in the game. ardan is a joke unit, but he gets Pursuit Ring in an event. aideen is a staff bot and the only non-promoted unit who can use Warp, and gets Rescue through convos. ethlin is a mounted staff bot who can combat just enough to survive, but doesn't have the staff rank to use the best staves. if you're not horse embleming, azel can keep up and he has pursuit and accurate 1-2 range that hits res, which is non-existent for most enemies. then he promotes and gets a horse. levin has 1 more move than azel, but is stuck to only one magic type until promo (albeit the best one) and doesn't get a horse on promo. they made holsety too strong though.

once you start beating this game with 10 units instead of 5, everything else falls into place too. the weapon crit system can't be abused because you're probably not getting 50 kills on any one weapon in gen 1 (which you could even in this version of the game if you could trade on the map!). suddenly celice can't solo chapter 6 with 70 kill light/hero swords and the leg/elite rings to promote at the start of c7. celice probably barely even kills anything in chapter 7 because he's behind all the action. you can't promote him mid chapter without back-tracking so he maybe doesn't even promote until the start of chapter 9.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Jave said:

The problem with this is that people have different views on what a potential FE4 remake could or should be, and given this thread is about ideas for an FE4 remake, people should be allowed to post what they would like to see on it. A lot of people (me included) feel FE4 has several bad design choices, which heavily affect the gameplay and that is something that I would like to see fixed or at least somewhat streamlined in the remake. FE4 is a game that I feel has tons of potential, but is held back by its design choices and limitations.

For example, regarding the big maps, if they can keep them and make them work, then that's amazing and bring them on. But if they can't do that then I won't object to cutting them down. It may not be as faithful to the original, but I'm always open to try new things, and if it makes the game more enjoyable, so be it.

I personally feel all the opinions posted in the thread are valid, even if I don't agree with some of them. But if people are going to start telling others "Those who want changes in FE4's gameplay should just leave and play a different game", then I don't think that's a fair thing to say and basically defeats the point of even having this topic. Not to mention, it's one of those things that gives this fandom a bad rep in the first place.

Of course everyone's opinion is valid. But there's a difference between voicing an opinion and repeatedly harping on a single point, phrased in such a way that it is an objective truth and that everyone who disagrees is trying to preserve bad flaws for the sake of it.

[Armagon]

3 hours ago, Refa said:

I can understand the lover's system being opaque, but secret conversations should be more transparent.  Maybe there should be clearly defined event tiles or base menu conversations that hint at it more clearly. 

I think just having the C-B-A-S Supports would be better, while keeping the lover conversations. Makes couples easier to keep track of and you avoid the issue of Sylvia marrying Lewyn (unless that's what you were going for).

59 minutes ago, BBM said:

ardan is a joke unit, but he gets Pursuit Ring in an event.

Isn't it the Movement Ring?

59 minutes ago, BBM said:

the weapon crit system can't be abused because you're probably not getting 50 kills on any one weapon in gen 1 (which you could even in this version of the game if you could trade on the map!)

Boi, i seriously can not be the only one that sees a way to stop the weapon crit system. Just have it by tied to the character and not the weapon. 

Seliph has Silver Sword. 50 Kills. Trades it to Larcei. Larcei's Silver Sword kill count is zero, because it's her first time using it. She trades it back to Seliph. He still have the 50 kills. 

This makes it so having regular trading does not abuse the weapon crit system. The solution is so simple, yet i'm the only one who actually sees it apparently.

Again, i'll accept the compromise that allows couples to trade freely with each other but if they don't, i'm much in favor or regular trading over the Pawn Shop.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

BUT HEY, one thing that should actually stay is the Arena System. FE4 actually has the best Arena system imo. Limited battles per chapter (so no arena abuse) and losing doesn't cause the unit to die.

[Jotari]

I think the crit rate on weapons will be much less broken when they swap to the crit system of tripling damage and not attack. They modernized the crit system in all the remakes since Shadow Dragon, so I'd be surprised if they retain it.

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Isn't it the Movement Ring?

No its the pursuit ring, Heroes even references it giving him double attacks.

[Refa]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I think just having the C-B-A-S Supports would be better, while keeping the lover conversations. Makes couples easier to keep track of and you avoid the issue of Sylvia marrying Lewyn (unless that's what you were going for).

I mean, they could do that too.  I moreso meant they might want to keep the fact that you get children out of the deal hidden so that the plot twist isn't spoiled via mechanics.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

No its the pursuit ring, Heroes even references it giving him double attacks.

Ah ok. Got the two mixed up then.

[Jedi]

15 minutes ago, Refa said:

I mean, they could do that too.  I moreso meant they might want to keep the fact that you get children out of the deal hidden so that the plot twist isn't spoiled via mechanics.

I'm not so sure they'll want to keep it secret because of how much Awakening was like "HEY LOOK YOU CAN HAVE KIDZ"

[BBM]

Tying weapon crit to character is okay in that gen 2 characters can't become OP through gen 1 characters getting kills for them, but it still encourages using only a few units. changing the game so that that's not incentivized, or just heavily reducing or flat out removing weapon crit would probably be better. i don't think switching to the new crit damage formula would do much by itself.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Of course everyone's opinion is valid. But there's a difference between voicing an opinion and repeatedly harping on a single point, phrased in such a way that it is an objective truth and that everyone who disagrees is trying to preserve bad flaws for the sake of it.

Pretty much this.  Plus for many of these critics, it seems they hate FE4 and want to warp and twist it into some completely different abomination (a clone of Fates or whatever) just so they can enjoy it even if it is nothing like the original game.   

Also I'm all about gameplay not just in Fire Emblem but games in general.  The big maps, multiple castles, multiple armies, are a big part of why I and many others love FE4 or even have it as their favorite.  Obviously it isn't perfect and there are many improvements that can be done.  However saying do away with the big maps, is like saying do away with the split route in FE Gaiden.  It is one of the key defining features of the game and one of the biggest reasons for its popularity.  

A lot of the characters are balanced on pursuit as a skill.  So simply removing this and making doubles work like other games would completely break certain characters (like Lewyn) while making others go from usable to abysmally weak (like Alec).  Also making skills arts like Echoes would also screw up the balance.  Being able to activate Astra every battle?  Or Big Shield?  Or whatever.  

[eclipse]

17 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Pretty much this.  Plus for many of these critics, it seems they hate FE4 and want to warp and twist it into some completely different abomination (a clone of Fates or whatever) just so they can enjoy it even if it is nothing like the original game.   

Also I'm all about gameplay not just in Fire Emblem but games in general.  The big maps, multiple castles, multiple armies, are a big part of why I and many others love FE4 or even have it as their favorite.  Obviously it isn't perfect and there are many improvements that can be done.  However saying do away with the big maps, is like saying do away with the split route in FE Gaiden.  It is one of the key defining features of the game and one of the biggest reasons for its popularity.  

A lot of the characters are balanced on pursuit as a skill.  So simply removing this and making doubles work like other games would completely break certain characters (like Lewyn) while making others go from usable to abysmally weak (like Alec).  Also making skills arts like Echoes would also screw up the balance.  Being able to activate Astra every battle?  Or Big Shield?  Or whatever.  

Fine, we get it, you don't like Fates.  Everyone's free to love whatever FE game they want (even BS FE).  But seriously, tone it down.

I don't like FE4 because of the big maps, multiple castles, and multiple armies (among other things). It doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid than yours - just different.  And that's perfectly okay, because neither of us are responsible for designing that game.

Go ahead and have an opinion. But do not talk down to anyone because of their opinion, especially regarding a video game that may or may not exist in the future.

[Jave]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Of course everyone's opinion is valid. But there's a difference between voicing an opinion and repeatedly harping on a single point, phrased in such a way that it is an objective truth and that everyone who disagrees is trying to preserve bad flaws for the sake of it.

If you want my opinion just by looking at this thread, I feel both sides are guilty of this. I don't agree with the way some people in favor of changing FE4 express themselves, but at the same time I feel some people get quite defensive at the sight of someone daring to suggest something that goes against the norm. It really strikes me as a general unwelcome mood, and we can't seem to have proper discussion because of it.

For the record, I don't hate FE4. It IS one of my least favorites, but I CAN adapt to its playstyle despite having several design choices I consider to be bad. If a remake plays pretty much exactly like it, I'll probably grade it a 6/10, because that's how FE4 ranks to me. What I really want from a FE4 remake is for it to bring out the game's whole potential, even if it means changing a few mechanics and redesigning certain aspects. I believe it's something that can be done while still letting the game retain its identity.

EDIT: eclipse posted above while I was typing this.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Jave

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Fine, we get it, you don't like Fates.  Everyone's free to love whatever FE game they want (even BS FE).  But seriously, tone it down.

I don't like FE4 because of the big maps, multiple castles, and multiple armies (among other things). It doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid than yours - just different.  And that's perfectly okay, because neither of us are responsible for designing that game.

Go ahead and have an opinion. But do not talk down to anyone because of their opinion, especially regarding a video game that may or may not exist in the future.

I'm not the one that started this, and I wasn't addressing you in particular.  It is fine if people don't like big maps, but acting like it is objectively garbage because of it and there is no way big maps could work and thus should be scrapped is far more offensive than anything I have said about fates.  I mean how many times have I called Fates an unplayable piece of crap and stated it as fact?  Cause that has been said repeatedly by others in this thread and similar threads about FE4.  Also I fail to understand why people are interested in remaking a game they dislike so much.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Lewyn

[eclipse]

5 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I'm not the one that started this, and I wasn't addressing you in particular.  It is fine if people don't like big maps, but acting like it is objectively garbage because of it and there is no way big maps could work and thus should be scrapped is far more offensive than anything I have said about fates.  I mean how many times have I called Fates an unplayable piece of crap and stated it as fact?  Cause that has been said repeatedly by others in this thread and similar threads about FE4.  Also I fail to understand why people are interested in remaking a game they dislike so much.

 

Hell if I know.  I usually don't comment about FE4, since it's not my area of interest.

Regardless, the Ignore function exists, and is great for this particular case.  Trust me, he isn't going to change his mind, and it'll allow you to respond to the many other posts that bring up a good point.

Big maps annoy me because I don't like spending a lot of turns moving people.  But it also adds to the feel of the world - Jugdral isn't some tiny kingdom, it's a big place.  I can see both arguments, and I think they're equally valid.  I hope there's a compromise where the spacious world-feel is kept, but not in such a way where I feel like I'm waiting for my army to catch up to Sigurd.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Hell if I know.  I usually don't comment about FE4, since it's not my area of interest.

Regardless, the Ignore function exists, and is great for this particular case.  Trust me, he isn't going to change his mind, and it'll allow you to respond to the many other posts that bring up a good point.

Big maps annoy me because I don't like spending a lot of turns moving people.  But it also adds to the feel of the world - Jugdral isn't some tiny kingdom, it's a big place.  I can see both arguments, and I think they're equally valid.  I hope there's a compromise where the spacious world-feel is kept, but not in such a way where I feel like I'm waiting for my army to catch up to Sigurd.

That's fine, I am aware of the ignore function.  However shouldn't I be then able to bash Fates all I want?  Can I go into Fates threads and just bash everything about it, and say how much better it would be if it was completely changed in every way?  Why should I have to tone it down?  That's all I'm saying.

Anyways I welcome constructive discussion to improve the game.  There should be a lot more events and stuff to do on the big maps, and enemy placement, more enemy strategic offensives, and other stuff.  To preserve the big feel while cutting down on dead time.  

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

That's fine, I am aware of the ignore function.  However shouldn't I be then able to bash Fates all I want?  Can I go into Fates threads and just bash everything about it, and say how much better it would be if it was completely changed in every way?  Why should I have to tone it down?  That's all I'm saying.

Anyways I welcome constructive discussion to improve the game.  There should be a lot more events and stuff to do on the big maps, and enemy placement, more enemy strategic offensives, and other stuff.  To preserve the big feel while cutting down on dead time.  

Don't stoop to the level of other people.  Great way to get yourself warned alongside the other person.

I can sort-of see why people all over the place in Chapter 2, but it's done in a manner that feels really frustrating.  If they could keep that wide-open feel, without making me feel like I should wait for people to finish up their side business, that would be great.  If the kingdom is big, then I'd imagine that the army would like to stick together.  Having Sigurd go "hey, sure, you can go wander off over there" in the middle of a battle seems odd.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Jave said:

If you want my opinion just by looking at this thread, I feel both sides are guilty of this. I don't agree with the way some people in favor of changing FE4 express themselves, but at the same time I feel some people get quite defensive at the sight of someone daring to suggest something that goes against the norm. It really strikes me as a general unwelcome mood, and we can't seem to have proper discussion because of it.

For the record, I don't hate FE4. It IS one of my least favorites, but I CAN adapt to its playstyle despite having several design choices I consider to be bad. If a remake plays pretty much exactly like it, I'll probably grade it a 6/10, because that's how FE4 ranks to me. What I really want from a FE4 remake is for it to bring out the game's whole potential, even if it means changing a few mechanics and redesigning certain aspects. I believe it's something that can be done while still letting the game retain its identity.

EDIT: eclipse posted above while I was typing this.

 

That's why I said with the original comment that you replied to that people should acknowledge and accept that their subjective opinion is subjective.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but you need to understand just because you don't like the gameplay, doesn't make it actually flawed. I like the item management, and the fact that so many people here argued in favor of it means a lot of others do. You might just have to accept that the Gameplay of Genealogy of the Holy War just isn't suited towards your subjective tastes.

At least that's what I was trying to say.

[Codename Shrimp]

Gameplay aside, because we will have to agree to disagree there, i want the Gen 2 Story to be improved. While i do really love the Gen 1 Story and Characters, I feel like Gen2 really falls short there, especially since it goes ''here is evul Dragon, kill it'', with the 2 Thracia Chapters being the personal highlight imo and the redeeming Factors of Gen2 story. It doesn't help that alot of the kids feel like copycats of their Parents either. 

I will quote something i wrote on reddit a few Months ago:

Quote

Gen2/2nd half of the game, and how, compared to Gen 1, it is meeeh. Plot and Character-wise.

Story & Character wise, i Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Gen 1. From Sigurd starting a War to defend a Friend (Aideen), to him continuing to fight on orders and "protect" his Country, even so far as to against one of his best Friends. There wasn't a Clear ''we good guys, you bad guys''-theme like it was in Gen2. We can see that even tough Sigurd meant good, we can see the destruction he brought due to his actions and naivety (as Lewyn points out.). Their was also alot of political plays and stuff going on. And the end of Gen 1, even tough i spoiled (thx to BBQ memes.), it still hurts to play through, watch, because the Characters were so goooooooooooood.

From the Naive, but Noble Lord Sigurd, to his Bros Quan & Eldigan (altough Eldigan's death in Ch3 was a little rushed imo, def. needs a cutscene in the remake.), to Ayra, who first was an enemy because of her nephew being held hostage, and then joined and fought alongside you and wanting to achieve peace, even tough she was from a country who Grannvale fought a war against, to the traveling prince Lewyn who was first fleeing from his responsibilities, to Ethlyn, who cam to her brother's aid alongside her Husband (Their death also needs to be cutscened), to Azel and Erin and Tailte and Lex and etc...

You get the Point. I not only remember Gen 1 characters for their deeds as units, but also as Characters.

Come Gen 2 however...

The Story turns into a typical ''we good guys, you bad guys'' Story, with 2 exceptions, first being the Talk between Lewyn and Seliph at the Temple, and it was just 1 line and then it was never mentioned again, and 2nd being the Thracia chatpers (my fav. Part of Gen2 and the reason i can't wait for a full T776 tl).

Even tough it was clear the game was building towards the Wielders of the Holy weapons fighting against Loptyr's descendant, the way it was done left alot to be desired. It could've been done without throwing Politics and characterization out the Window. Also, it may be because i played FE4 after i finished Conquest, but i hated the whole Loptyr thing as much as i hated LolAnankos in Fates.

Speaking about Characters...

Characters of Gen 2 weren't really memorable as Characters themselves, but as Kids of X and Y from Gen1, or due to being awesome on the Battlefield. Othen then Tinny, who was better characterized then her mother imo due to her relation to the villains/antagonists, and Ced for playing a big role in Thracia chapters, the characters i remember were those who carried me through the game.

I remember Larcei for being an Awesome Swordmaster and being Ayra's Daughter, seducing those Axe guys in ch6 (whose name i don't even remember), and not as her own Character.

I remember Fee for being my Village visitor and Bandit killer and an Awesome Falcon Knight with Daddy issues, nothing else.

Leif & his Sister for having one of the most facepalmy moments in the game ''you are my Sistah'' ''don't believe ya, but imma go check with my dad''. <.<

Julia for Nosfetanking my way through Ch7, Lana for being a Cinnamon Roll, Seliph for needying hours to reach Castles due to being footlocked at first, etc..

I remember em as units, not as characters. Not to mention most of the time they looked like carbon copies of their parents. Yeah, kids should look smiliar, but not like that.

And i hope if a remake is ever done, Gen 2 will be atleast as half as awesome as Gen1 is, Story & Character wise.

As for how to do that, i think the game should focus on one more thing through it's Story. The descrimination towards the descendents of the Loptyrian Empire should be a major point in the game, and not just something that's mentioned 1-2 times in game. That could be done by adding a playable Dark Mage who may not agree with the revival plans, through of which we can see the descrimination and stuff. Also, an extra Thracia chapter wouldn't hurt considering it was the only part with any depth in gen 2.

Making the Story in Gen 2 less about ''we good guys, you bad guys'' and more about politics and stuff, like Gen 1, would make it much much better.

Adding a CBAS support system will also help flesh out the characters much much more. For both Gens. But Gen 2 really needs the fleshing out badly.