Rate the Unit, Day 92: Brave Ephraim & Brave Veronica

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Xenomata said:

I just mean even once the subject of Frederick was over, he still found mention under Cherche's rating, not that "I adore Frederick, therefore all other axes are inferior". And again, my personal lower rating of Cherche is because she has had competition for Flying Axe even since game launch, and they are all competent competition, compared to Frederick only recently getting competition, and he still has a solid reason to be picked over them.

I mean, I like Freddy and Cherche as units equally. How I feel about them performance wise is a matter that I now kinda wish I saved that essay for...

The only reason I mentioned him there was because he and Cherche DO have a similar stat line and I really do think she is a lot like him, just as a flying unit instead of a horse one. Not to say she's inferior simply because Frederick. xP

[Rafiel's Aria]

Gonna try this thing again

Overall, dagger users kind of fall into a difficult place. Their refinements helped them quite a bit, but most of them have sub-optimal damage output without huge investment. Often, they need a dancer on the team to make proper use of the buffs/debuffs their daggers provide if they want to be player phase oriented. A lot of the bulkier units want Close Counter to function during enemy phase. Unfortunately, until we get more daggers in the pool, like Kaze's, they're probably not going to be waited too highly.

Saizo - For a ranged unit, he's got pretty good SPD and DEF. His ATK leaves a little to be desired. His HP is...so-so, and his RES is not good. He either wants to be a unit who does a massive debuff with Smoke Dagger and then retreats for other enemies to pick off or a massive enemy phase wall with Rogue Dagger. Unfortunately, with the first option, chip damage could leave enemies with Vantage or Desperation active. But the debuffs could be useful against armors. Running windsweep or watersweep could also be valuable when debuffing DC units or dragons (who would be very dangerous otherwise. With expensive skills like Close Counter, he could be a nasty force to try and eliminate, but unfortunately, mages, especially -raven mages, and dragons could wipe him out. I'll give him a 4. He's a unit that has quite a bit of potential, but he needs a lot of investment, and the role he plays isn't exactly the most practical for most team compositions unless he fits your particular play style. I decided to give him a .5 boost from my original score because massive area debuffs can be pretty useful during Rival Domain maps.

Kagero - She was the original dagger unit that everyone wanted to use because she could be used offensively unlike most of her competition. Her Poison Dagger was the weapon of choice since it helped her damage output. Even now, she has rather respectable stats 35/32 at neutral or 35/35 with a SPD boon. She'll be dealing adequate damage to infantry units at least, but her damage output will suffer against most other unit types unless she's running an alternate build. Unlike most other dagger units, she has an adequate RES stat, but her overall bulk suffers. An HP bane will stick her at only 28 HP. A DEF bane will stick her at only 19 DEF. As a result, she wouldn't really be able to benefit from the defensive buff Rogue Dagger gives, but she might like the extra MT and potential SPD boost Smoke Dagger gives over Poison Dagger. What she really wants is Barb Shuriken or Lethal Carrot, but both weapons unfortunately have limited availability. I'll give her a 4.5. Unlike most other daggers, she doesn't require as much investment to work, so she's one of the easier ones to build and use.

[Xenomata]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

The only reason I mentioned him there was because he and Cherche DO have a similar stat line and I really do think she is a lot like him, just as a flying unit instead of a horse one. Not to say she's inferior simply because Frederick. xP

Fairs fair. That I remember bringing up myself...

Hm... I should probably rate Saizo and Kagero real quick...

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As a general rule about Daggers, I personally feel they under perform compared to all other units. Where Bows generally have great Attack, access to Brave weaponry, and permanent effectiveness against the generally low-defense Flier units, Daggers fill a support role that it's really hard to justify bringing over Bows or Staves. The effects of Daggers, for one thing, are possible to replicate with Seal skills and Smoke skills, or even just using a Ploy or Chill skill. Secondly, the Dagger units we have all suffer from middling Attack, anywhere from average to below average Speed, and either meh or horrendous defensive ability. Finally, where most weapons can still be used even without a Refine, Daggers suffer from having their best effect only be accessible to you with a refine, such as Rogue Dagger+'s defensive boosting, or Smoke Dagger+'s Spectrum Smoke, or just all daggers debuffing both the target and enemies within 2 spaces compared to before, where it was just the target.

Saizo, unfortunately, suffers from all the above. Smoke Dagger+ without a refine doesn't even target the enemy he initially attacks, his Attack and Speed are bad for offensive standards, and his Defense, while above average compared to most other daggers, is considered bad for defensive standards. Unlike Kagero, he also doesn't have a good reason to go full offense thanks to his bad Attack and average Speed.

What he does have, however, is default access to a powerful debuffing tool in Smoke Dagger+ forge, completely crippling the enemy for the rest of your units to wail on. If given Close Counter, he can also serve as a sort of wall by getting a defensive Field Buff, attacking the enemy, and watching as they try to hurt him, which they can't because they got smoked out, and in fact keep getting smoked because they keep attacking him. Compared to Matthew, as someone who uses him a lot might not like to hear, he has better Physical defensive ability in exchange for no magical defensive ability, and default access to the surprisingly effective Poison Strike skill, further crippling the enemy he targets. Combine that with Savage Blow, and he won't even need his Attack stat because he will just slowly pick off the enemy from the shadows, as a Ninja may be expected to.

Rating: 7/10 Can be effective if invested into his role as an army crippler, but his direct combat ability, quite frankly, sucks.

Kagero is a much different Ninja. While her Speed isn't anything to write home about, her Attack is one of the highest in the game (among Daggers), and enables her to actually do decent damage to the enemy before they are debuffed. Her defensive ability does not exist, and in fact she can have the lowest HP among 5* units if she accepts a -HP nature. Don't let her decent Res and access to Warding Blow fool you, she won't do well against many popular mages.

The most interesting part about Kagero, besides what she may consider assets that get in the way, is her Poison Dagger+. Cannot be forged, and has the lowest might among all 5* weapons, but it also has the surprisingly deadly effect of "Effective against Infantry". Well over half the units in the game are Infantry, and combined with her good Attack stat, she can be expected to leave some serious dents in a number of them, if they aren't outright killed. But she can still wield other daggers in a deadly manor.

What cripples her being outright recommended with a Poison Dagger+ is that many meta units aren't Infantry at all, and in those cases she can't even debuff them, let alone deal worthwhile damage.

Rating: 7/10 Also effective if invested into, but it's a niche role, and she may rather want to stick to other daggers if she wants to see combat outside of Infantry.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

@ The rating topic: Even if 7 is "average," there's a big difference between 0 and 3, trust me. Anyway...

Saizo: His attack really isn't that great and his resistance is pretty darn low. His defense and speed are both very good, though, so he can naturally function as a physical wall (sort of) and he won't get doubled by much. His natural B skill Poison Strike helps his low attack a little, but it's not too noticeable, so even chip damage is kinda low. Aside from that, none of his skills are too great, so he'd need lots of inheritance to really shine. 4/10

Kagero: She has REALLY low health. Like, REALLY low, some of the lowest. But, she has good attack, and her weapon can hit REALLY hard against infantry units or ORKO them entirely, making her dangerous. She's also pretty fast, and her resistance is okay, so she has decent stats for a dagger user aside from her health and defense. I think Sothe may have taken her spot as best dagger user in the regular summoning pool, but she's still pretty okay. 6/10

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

@ The rating topic: Even if 7 is "average," there's a big difference between 0 and 3, trust me. Anyway...

If 7 is the average, then the intervals between 0 and 3 have much less significance than the intervals between 8 and 10. Each 0.5 point is a distinct tier amongst itself between 8 and 10, while any unit at 3 and below can be summed up as the filthiest of the filthiest garbage. 3.5 to 5 are basically trash, and adding seven extra tiers below that just to describe how disgusting the filthiest of the filthiest trash are is kind of pointless.

Is there really a need to describe in great detail how bad something is when a simple description would suffice? Our education system gives us a seventeen letter grades of A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, C-, D+, D, D-, and F to describe how good or bad our performance is. C's and D's are already sufficient to describe how much we suck, and F is a catchall for the worst of the worst; they do not even bother with E's, F+, and F-, let alone G's, H's, I's J's, K's, and M's.

I guess my main beef is that we are basically wasting the intervals between 0 to 3 since no unit would even reach that low if we use 7 as the average. Even Odin would at least be a 3.5 or 4 since he can run Blárraven-Triangle Adept to at least take out most reds and colorless.

Edited May 29, 2018 by XRay

[LordFrigid]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:03 AM, The Priest said:

Won't count your Frederick vote. It is possible to do constructive explainations without letting your bias show in such an obvious manner.
Your vote for Cherche is fine though.

Obviously this is your RTU and you can do with it as you please, but I personally didn't think that vote was out of line, and had basis in Frederick's actual capabilities. It's definitely a tough call to make a lot of the time, and there's going to be some discrepancies in how much a certain person values certain unit qualities. What I would look for is the ones that are most obviously bad, where the person clearly just rated the unit without actually bothering to figure out what their capabilities are.

Anyway...

Saizo

• Fast, physically bulky stat line featuring good Spd, decent Def, poor Atk, and very poor Res.
  • Has mediocre matchups on both phases, hampered by his low Atk. He is capable of running a -sweep set for buffing/debuffing. He has an ok Barb Shuriken/Bonfire/Close Counter defense set, but is plagued by his low Res, making him an easy mark for mages and dragons. He can use the Kitty Paddle and Poison Dagger for tome or infantry specific checking, but is held back by his low Atk stat.
• As a dagger user, he can provide buff and/or debuff support for his teammates, and the standard field/combat buff in his C passive slot.

Overall, I give him 4.5 for combat (ok but not great overall matchups), and 1 for support (buff and/or debuff support, basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 4.5/10.

Kagero

• Glass cannon-like stat line with good Atk, decent Spd and Res, and poor Def and HP.
  • Capable of leveraging her high Atk stat and her natural Poison Dagger or the Kitty Paddle to act as a check for specific unit types. Can also run a half-decent Lethal Carrot+/Moonbow/Desperation/Heavy Blade (seal) set for more general coverage, but struggles against fast and/or Spd-stacking foes, and her low bulk makes it hard to set up.
  • Poor defensive matchups due to her low defenses and HP.
• As a dagger user, she can provide buff and/or debuff support for her teammates (though her Poison Dagger and Kitty Paddle sets cannot do this unless the user intentionally has her target someone she cannot KO) in addition to the standard C passive field/combat buff.

Overall, I give her 6 for combat (solid as a check for specific unit types through effective damage), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, buff and/or debuff support potential), for a total rating of 6/10.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

All my ratings.

Edited May 30, 2018 by LordFrigid
Typo correction

[Hilda]

Saizo: 7/10. He is part of my main Arena/PVE Team and never failed to deliver. Great asset for debuffing and with Smoke Dagger + and tanking physical hits. Combined with Gunnthra its an unstoppable force. excellent counter to bow users and very sturdy wall with Smoke Dagger+ and Windsweep against any physical foe. On top of that he runs in a Team that runs all 4 Tactic buffs. Together with his Dagger that makes a difference of 12 Stat points in almost every statline...

Kagero:5/10, dont get me wrong, very excellent against Infantry units but other than that she cant take hits for anything even if she runs a Smoke Dagger and she gets obliterated by anything she attacks that isnt an Infantry unit and has Distant Counter somewhere built in...

(pls due note i run +10 units in Arena where Dragonstone and Armorers are alot more comon)

Edited May 29, 2018 by Hilda

[Fire Emblem Fan]

10 hours ago, XRay said:

If 7 is the average, then the intervals between 0 and 3 have much less significance than the intervals between 8 and 10. Each 0.5 point is a distinct tier amongst itself between 8 and 10, while any unit at 3 and below can be summed up as the filthiest of the filthiest garbage. 3.5 to 5 are basically trash, and adding seven extra tiers below that just to describe how disgusting the filthiest of the filthiest trash are is kind of pointless.

False. 5 is FAR from trash in a system of a 7 average. That's not a good way to look at it, honestly. In a 10-point system like this, the way I generally see it done (scratch that, the way I 100% ALWAYS see it done, with you being the only person I've ever seen to not do it this way) is like this:

10: as close to perfect as possible 

8-9: great!

6-7: slightly below average or just average 

4-5: passable but needs some work

1-3: HEAVY investment required, with the amount of heavy varying between 1 and 3

And I've never seen 0 given out.

[Shiki]

18 hours ago, XRay said:

I do not mind slapping +2 at the end of my formula and that should calibrate to 7 being the average, but it feels kind of weird to have a numerical scale where 0-3 are rarely if ever used, while 8-10 are given out much more liberally.

To be fair you're quite right about this, people tend to give away high scores a bit too leniently (that's not a criticism to you guys though).
I don't mind if you continue like this I just wanted to know if you're aware of it.

Btw. if I go through your rating criteria there is technically no unit that can possibly reach 10/10, no?

14 hours ago, XRay said:

if you do not mind, can you null my votes/ratings for the rest of the week? I will still be post my ratings since I want to see how my formula compares to other's rating, but I do not want my rating to count towards the unit's final rating since I will be tweaking things around a lot.

If you think that's approriate ... will do. No pressure though.

---

@Glennstavos @Radiant Dragon @Xenomata

Your guys are putting some words into my mouth and I don't like that.
1. I don't care if you have a bias about a character. I care that your votes have proper explanation behind them and that's possible even if you are biased.
2. I included her vote for Cherche since the reasoning was fine. Considering comparisions between her and Frederick are very much possible, there is no problem at all of her mentioning him.

I might have changed my mind since it was a bit too harsh but ...

Quote

Screw this thread then, I won't rate if my ratings won't be counted just because I like the fucking character I rate.

... on the other hand she didn't seem to care either way (didn't even give me time to formulate a proper response) so I don't see a point to change it.
Deal with it and move on.

Edited May 29, 2018 by The Priest

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

1-3: HEAVY investment required, with the amount of heavy varying between 1 and 3

It is stated in the first post that investment costs are not considered. All units are judged at their peak performance. Even Odin does not need heavy investment to be passable as [Blárraven, Moonbow, Triangle Adept, Bowbreaker] are all available from 4* fodder.

Removing cost as a factor, I assume your scale looks something like this:

10: Perfect/Almost Perfect Performance
9: Great
8: Good
7: Average
6: Below Average
5: Passable
4: Bad
3: Terribe
2: Terribe
1: Terribe
0. Terribe

That is devoting 8 extra tiers at the bottom (factoring in the 0.5 tiers) to describe how terrible something is. What is the point in describing their terribleness in great detail when a simple 4 or 3.5 would suffice? Do we really need to incorporate the equivalents of F+, F-, G's, H's, etc. into the rating system when a simple F would suffice?

If we shift the average down from 7 to 5, we can use the extra tiers on the top to better describe how good something is.

12 minutes ago, The Priest said:

Btw. if I go through your rating criteria there is technically no unit that can possibly reach 10/10, no?

9.5/10 is probably possible since I treat the other criteria sort of like extra credit to help boost unit's scores up a little, but 10/10 should not be, at least in the player's hands. My reasoning is that for a unit to be 10/10, they have to be highly mobile, attack from distance, and have insane combat performance, and probably have some crazy utility; having all that in one unit would be game breaking.

— — — — — — —

I abstain my vote on Saizo and Kagero.

I cannot edit my previous post for some reason. Tweaked the weighting system a bit, so there will be multiple scores.

— — — — — — — ●Saizo● — — — — — — —

Mobility: 5/10
Range: 5/10
Player Phase Raw Performance: 4.11/10 — 109:20:124
Player Phase Weighted Performance: 0/10
Player Phase Independence: 1.33/10 — 39:21:193
[+Spd, -Def, Barb Shuriken [Spd], Moonbow, Swift Sparrow, Desperation, Speed +3, 4/4/0/0]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: 4.8/10 — 126:18:109
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: 0/10
Enemy Phase Independence: 3.16/10 — 88:32:133
[+Spd, -Def, Lethal Carrot [Spd], Moonbow, Close Counter, Quick Riposte, Speed +3, 4/0/0/4]

Ease of Use: 5/10
Performance: 0.8/10
Support: 1/10
Other: 0/10

Familiarity/Experience: 0/10
Rating: 2.5 - 2 - 1.5 /10

Summary:

Saizo got bad combat performance. He can support the team with daggers.

— — — — — — — ●Kagero● — — — — — — —

Mobility: 5/10
Range: 5/10
Player Phase Raw Performance: 6.15/10 — 160:18:75
Player Phase Weighted Performance: 2.29/10
Player Phase Independence: 1.88/10 — 52:18:183
[+Spd, -Res, Barb Shuriken [Spd], Moonbow, Swift Sparrow, Desperation, Speed +3, 4/4/0/0]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: 6.21/10 — 170:52:31
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: 2.41/10
Enemy Phase Independence: 3.88/10 — 120:87:46
[+Spd, -Res, Lethal Carrot [Spd], Moonbow, Close Counter, Quick Riposte, Speed +3, 4/0/4/0]

Ease of Use: 5/10
Performance: 2.94/10
Support: 1/10
Other: 0/10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: 3.5 - 3.5 - 3 /10

Summary:

Kagero got okay combat performance. She can support the team with daggers.

[Troykv]

10.- Essencially Perfect.

8-9.- Great Units 

6-7.- Good Units 

5.- Average man 

3-4.- It needs help...

2.- Ugh

1.- Odin 

[Alexmender]

I suppose I need to asign the value to the numbers, otherwise they won't make sense:

10. Meta defining. 

9.5. Incredibly threatening.

9. Extremely powerful. 

8.5-8. Very strong.

7.5-7. Strong. 

6.5-6. Above average.

5.5-5. Average.

4.5-4. Below average.

3.5-3. Mediocre.

2.5-2. Bad.

1.5-1. The worst units in the game.

0 is for unusable but in this game even the worst units like Jakob/Merric/Odin can be used so no one will ever fit here.

Another thing to note is that I put a heavy emphasis on how AI proof the unit is and that each class is treated independently from each other (which kinda artificially boosts axes scores compared to the other classes as there is less competition here).

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

It is stated in the first post that investment costs are not considered. All units are judged at their peak performance. Even Odin does not need heavy investment to be passable as [Blárraven, Moonbow, Triangle Adept, Bowbreaker] are all available from 4* fodder.

Removing cost as a factor, I assume your scale looks something like this:

10: Perfect/Almost Perfect Performance
9: Great
8: Good
7: Average
6: Below Average
5: Passable
4: Bad
3: Terribe
2: Terribe
1: Terribe
0. Terribe

Um, no, that is false. The opening post says in the rules:

"-Skill inheritance is allowed"

So yes, investment and cost (skill inheritance) is most certainly a factor.

My scale is exactly as I stated, not what you just tried to turn it into.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

31 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Um, no, that is false. The opening post says in the rules:

"-Skill inheritance is allowed"

So yes, investment and cost (skill inheritance) is most certainly a factor.

My scale is exactly as I stated, not what you just tried to turn it into.

 

On 5/1/2018 at 10:32 AM, The Priest said:

You have to clarifiy what you mean with that.
If you are giving a rating, assume that they are in their best possible state (skill inheritance, merges, 5* rarity) that you see fit.

I know that this is going to be a bit weird for the Askr Trio (as they have no merges) but alas we have to handle it like that for now. If you want to penalize them for that, go ahead.

This really ought to have been added to the OP. 

[Shiki]

40 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

This really ought to have been added to the OP. 

I still can and I will since it comes up too much for my taste as well.

Saizo: 4.72
Kagero: 5.44

Lyn, Lady of the Plains

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
34/37/41
24/28/31
34/37/40
23/26/30
26/29/32

Base Skills:

Sol Katti (If unit's HP ≤ 50% and unit initiates combat, unit can make a follow-up attack before foe can counterattack.)
( - )
Galeforce

Defiant Atk
( - )
Spur Spd

Chrom, Exalted Prince

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
44/47/50
34/37/40
22/25/29
28/31/34
13/17/20

Base Skills:

Falchion ( Effective against dragon foes. At the start of every third turn, restores 10 HP. )
( - )
Aether

Defiant Def
( - )
Spur Def

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Lyn - I've had Lyn since the day this game came out. I still fondly remember her 40 atk and 40 speed with a weapon equipped. But I still don't really know what to make of her. Her weapon has become quite good. Everything hinges on whether Lyn can get below 75% health. Lyn's attack stat is as low as both the sword dancers. Her physical bulk is unremarkable and magical bulk a little higher than average. That Res is high enough for Def Ploy and it's a valuable crutch. Her speed is high, but often doesn't matter due to the guaranteed followups she'll be getting from the refinement. The new Brazen skills synergize well with her weapon by having a similar HP threshold. A single ardent sacrifice or reciprocal aid will get her to this threshold, but now you've just passed the burden of getting hurt to somebody else. I think I'll rate her a 7 out of 10. I can't imagine the wave of potential high tier threats that could survive Lyn's onslaught due to her low attack. And your red slot really ought to be one of the excellent dragon killers.

Chrom - I think Sealed Falchion is a great weapon. But you need to take some damage to proc its Brazen Everything effect. Chrom is a slow dude, anything that engages combat with him will double and anything in higher tiers will hurt a great deal. Plus if you were giving him Reciprocal Aid or Ardent Sacrifice to proc the effect, then you'd find even greater synergy with his normal Falchion and its renewal 3 passive. In general I think Renewal 3 is superior to having +1 to your stats. Chrom being able to play Medic allows him some utility should he find himself fighting a team that shuts himself down completely. He's great with a Brave Sword, though I can't imagine that would break down the armors and dragons of higher tiers. So for PvE and for high tiers I generally find regular Falchion to be the superior choice of weapon. Chrom's Atk is the second highest among sword wielders. Tying with Helpful!Chrom and being one less than Soleil. He's also packing some of the lowest speed and and highest HP of infantry swords. Chrom's physical bulk is soundly behind Hinata, but otherwise very good. Chrom might be the least consistent of the Falchion wielders. He doesn't have Marth's Drive Everything utility, Lucina's competitively high stats, or Alm's destroyer of worlds refinement. Plus I find Roy to be more effective at slaying dragons by committing to enemy phase. 5 out of 10. You're missing out on a lot if this is your dragon killer of choice, but he's good on the frontlines if you keep the mages away. 

Past Ratings

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Linde would be 7. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5.

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Charmeleonbrah]

I know it's a day late, but I give Kagero a 7/10.  I have a +Atk IV one with Lethal Carrot+/Ardent Sacrifice/L&D 3/Desperation 3/Heavy Blade SS.  When in Desperation range, she can hit really hard and can ORKO some high defense enemies if she procs her special and has Lethal Carrot equipped.  The problem with Kagero is that she requires a lot of investment if you want to run that set.  She also can really not take a hit at all, which is a problem when a lot of enemies have Distant Counter.

 

Lyn: I give her a 6/10.  She's one of the most infuriating units I have.  I like Lyn, but she simply requires far too many primo/rare skills to be able to use well, and even with them Ayra is still better.  

Of course, I'm talking about the Sol Katti forge with Brazen Atk/Spd and Wrath.  It is so hard to make this build without being a whale since Wrath & Brazen are locked to 2 5-star exclusive units.

[Xenomata]

I mean, all issues aside, it still stings to have your opinion of something be, for lack of better terms, ignored when you feel strongly about it, but whatever.

Think I'm gonna try to be in this thread, since it's become clear that there's cobwebs in my ability to judge a unit... what better way to practice than to directly judge a unit?

Lyn

Spoiler

A victim of time, to be unfortunately blunt.

Back when Lyn was one of a few many options for speedy Infantry Sword, she was, admittedly, pretty neat. Having Desperation 2 built into Sol Katti paired well with Brash Assault, letting her still get in 2 hits as long as the enemy counters and she was weakened enough. Come weapon refinery, she was allowed not only to get Desperation 3, but also Brash Assault 5 built into Sol Katti, allowing her to trigger both at a higher HP threshold and opening her B slot to something else, such as the dangerous Wrath skill.

But it comes at a nasty price, and it's not even really her fault. Lyn is Weak among Sword Infantry, only hitting 44 Attack with Sol Katti, compared to even the minimum 32 most Swords seem to hit these days. Her speed, which any other unit would consider good, is completely wasted now that her weapon effect enables doubles so long as the enemy can attack back, and most ranged units want to be faster than 40 speed anyways. Her defensive ability extends to "she can avoid doubles", but any hit she does take still hurts... which I guess is a good thing to get into range for Wrathful DespAssault.

Her weapon effect, with her Attack stat, only makes her as strong as a 38 might Brave Sword user, but only allowed to hit the two times most Brave weapon users can usually get anyways. But what hurts most is the fact that she can be so easily compared to other units, and any aspect she rivals a unit in, they soundly beat her in every other aspect. Ayra has the same speed, but more raw power and defensive ability as well as an amazing Special. FH!Celica doesn't quite have Lyn's speed neutrally, but she has Beloved Zofia to make up the difference, as well as better Attack and Defense. Any slow Brave Sword user such as Lazlow can match Lyn's Player Phase combat without having to go under 75% hp.

Overall, Lyn is, again, a victim of time more than anything. Her permitted tools are amazing, but they've been put on a unit who can't quite match the pace of the world around her. (She does, at least, serve as easy Galeforce fodder.)

Rating: 5/10 Has great tools, but she isn't able to keep up with the meta with her base stats and ever-expanding pool of Infantry Swords.

Chrom

Spoiler

Chrom, as much as I'd hate to admit it, has aged well.

A player from the early days of the game will only see the strongest Falchion user and probably not much else. Fair enough, Dragon units used to not be quite as strong a threat as they are now, and even when they did become one, the Dragon-slaying Falchion didn't exactly bring the performance that was desired. Chrom had to be compared to his less bulky but faster daughter as well, so he was in stiff competition.

But things have changed since then. Lucina and Masked Marth have the same refine, but Chrom can put the Spetrum Bond Falchion refine given to the Ylissean lords to great effect, gaining +4 to all stats just by being near someone. Stack that with an effect such as another Bond skill or Brazen skill, and he gains far more raw tankiness, letting him take physical hits well and return with a full-power strike in return, doubled with Quick Riposte.

Chrom can also access the Sealed Falchion, which boosts his stats if he takes even one point of damage. Not as good in initial combat, but once it is triggered, it is a stronger boost than Spectrum Bond. The effect can pair well with Brazen Atk/Def to make him even tankier.

One fun idea you could try, if you don't mind being redundant in number of fielded sword users, is to have Chrom and Male Corrin be best buds, tirggering Yato's Supportive and giving Chrom an additional +6 to all stats, as well as Spur Atk and Spur Def (or Spur Atk/Def and one or the other, or one in both C and SS slots), which combined with the Spectrum Bond and additional Bond skill in Chrom's A slot, will make him exceptionally powerful and bulky.

All in all, Chrom has aged along with the game rather than against it, especially now that Dragon units are both more common and VERY SCARY. It will take some very expensive skills to put him at the peak of enemy-phase Infantry Swords, but it will be worth effort. As he himself once said, "Our bonds give me strength."

8/10 Has access to tools that make him a dangerous enemy-phase physical tank, and his raw power makes him an effective Dragon slayer. Has been able to keep up with the changing meta in his own ways, even as the Infantry Sword pool keeps expanding.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Lyn: Lyn's speed is great and her resistance is high enough, allowing her to run Ploys fairly well, and her attack is basically middle-of-the road. Defensively, though, she's a little on the low end. The Desperation/Brash Assault combo on her Sol Katti is dangerous, especially if you combine it with other skills, such as Wrath, Vantage, or a Brazen skill. You can even give her Distant Counter and Vantage and suddenly she's killing mages as well as green and red units! Add on something like Threaten Defense and her middle-of-the-road attack is patched a bit. Overall, Lyn can be very dangerous, but she requires a bit of work to get there thanks to how the game has changed over time. Still, though, I'd take her over a bunch of the other infantry sword units, like Hinata. 7.5/10

Chrom: Chrom is honestly the worst of all the Falchion users. He can kill dragons easily, but he lacks the synergy of Marth and the speed of Lucina. But, still, he has good attack and access to Sealed Falchion, which really in and of itself gives him a good boost. And defensively, he's not likely to disappoint! 7/10

[eclipse]

My rating scale is centered around 5 as the average.  I take into account raw stats, build versatility, intended niche performance, and how much support he/she needs to work at full potential.  Someone who exceeds in their niche is great, but I value a character who can run multiple builds well.  Otherwise, things get boring.  So. . .

Lyn - She really wants Brazen Atk/Def over her innate Defiant Atk, so she can really cheese things with Sol Katti.  Having both Desperation and Brash Assault built-in means that she'll double melee units before they can counter.  If she wants to be really cheesy, she can run Heavy Blade in the S slot, and charge Galeforce really quickly.  However, base 28 Atk is mediocre, and she'll need attack buffs to get the most out of Heavy Blade (if she goes that route).  Or, she can run something like DC and Distant Defense, and be able to tank some magical attacks.  6.5/10

Chrom - He's the perfect candidate for a Brave Sword, with his sky-high Atk and awful Spd.  Or, he can OHKO dragons with Sealed Falchion.  If he really wants to, a +Def variant can nab Safeguard, and become a wall that hits back.  He doesn't want anything to do with things that target his Res stat, unless he's delivering a OHKO to their face.  Thanks to skill inheritance and some new toys, I think he's gotten a lot better in recent updates.  7.5/10

[Alexmender]

Lyn, the lady of the many alts. She sports a semi balanced spread with low Atk and a emphasis on Spd. Her weapon Sol Katti comes with Desperation built-in which allowed Lyn to different B-slot skills like Brash Assault to become a low Hp killing machine, the weapon refinery added this effect in her weapon making Lyn able to have a pseudo brave weapon against melee units as long as she's at 75% Hp or lower which isn't hard to reach with her relatively low bulk. This makes her one of the best users of Wrath as it synergizes perfectly with her weapon allowing her to proc powerful specials to make up for her low Atk. Despite this Lyn still has trouble killing powerful units like Dragons/armors and despite her great Spd it isn't high enough to double a lot of the speedy mages in the game, which spells trouble for her as her low Atk means that it'll be very hard for her to ORKO them enabling WoM shenanigans. 

Rating: 6/10

Chrom. He's what Alfonse wishes to be. Sky high Atk coupled with high Hp and above average Def means that this guy will have a great time as a physical tank. His Atk allowed him to be one of the better users of Brave Sword+ but with the meta shift towards bulk Chrom started losing his place as an offensive PP threat. Thankfully the Weapon Refinery gave him two new toys to cause havoc, one is the Falchion bond refinement that cements his role as an extremely powerful semi-mixed phase unit thanks to the +4 to all stats as long as the unit is adjacent to an ally or he can lean towards a full player phase set with Sealed Falchion which boosts all his stats by 5 as long as his Hp >100%. The second set tends to be run better by his daughter but he shines the most as a dragon baiter/physical tank with the first set. Don't underestimate Chrom, despite what his art shows he's capable of doing massive amounts of damage if you don't separate him from his teammates. 

Rating: 6.5/10

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Lyn was a worse Chrom in a sense that standard Sol Katti was a funny Brave Sword. But R and newer skills puts her forward and now shes decent if very one dimensional. Her statsline simply isnt good for that specific job. Shes basically a terrible swordlord that become decidedly average after her supermode is up

6.5/10

 

Chron is in a reverse state where all of his refines havent really pulls him forward. Hes decidedly the worst Falchion but even the worst Falchion is really good because nobody likes Grima and fuck Myrh. Bond Falchion gives him amazing longevity from renewal and increased durability, while Sealed Falchion gives him ok performance in general. 60 skill less attack is pretty good

7/10

[LordFrigid]

On the rating system topic (which I feel a little obligated to speak on as one of the more "generous" score-givers), it really comes down to what people look for in the unit in question. I rarely give poor combat scores because most units are not poor in combat, and because I'm rating each unit on their own merits, without factoring in the merits of other similar units. I'll rate Siegbert higher than Cain because Siegbert is better than Cain, but I won't give Cain a rating drop just because Siegbert exists. I also assume the unit has their best set (also subjective) without thinking twice about inheritance costs. Not that I begrudge anyone else their own system (as long as it produces real, fact-based ratings), that was just a bit of insight into how I do mine.

For more specifics, the self-guidelines I drafted at the beginning of the RTU (and have admittedly made some modifications to since) are:

Spoiler

WRITE UPS
Write ups should consist of three to four aspects:
1. An overview of the unit's basic kit & options.
2. A brief analysis of the unit's combat capabilities.
3. A brief analysis of the unit's team supporting options, if any.
4. A summary of the score and reasoning.

RATINGS
Unit combat capabilities are rated on a scale of 0 to 10, as follows:

0: Unit is incapable of fighting.
1: Unit has very poor KO power against the advantage color.
2: Unit has poor KO power against the advantage color.
3: Unit has ok KO power against the advantage color.
4: Unit has mediocre KO power against the advantage color.
5: Unit has passable matchups against the advantage color. Unit has at least ok KO power over the neutral color(s).
6: Unit has decent matchups against the advantage color. Unit has at least some coverage over the neutral color(s).
7: Unit has strong matchups against the advantage color. Unit has decent matchups against the neutral color(s).
8: Unit has very strong matchups against the advantage color. Unit has good matchups against the neutral color(s).
9: Unit has near-perfect matchups against the advantage color, possibly missing some edge cases. Unit has solid matchups against the neutral color(s).
10: Unit cannot get any better at dealing with the advantage color, covering even edge cases. Unit has incredibly strong matchups against the neutral color(s).

Unit combat capabilities are granted a bonus of .5 points for combat sustainability.

Unit combat capabilities are granted a bonus of .25 or .5 for being able to act as niche checks or counters to a certain enemy type, depending on how valuable it is to have a check or counter to that enemy type, and the level to which the unit checks or counters the enemy type.

Unit supporting capabilities are rated on a scale of 0 to 3, as follows:

+.5 points each for:
-Basic field/combat buff (non-movement type hones, spurs, and drives; refresher B-passive buffs).
-Ploy capability (stat and/or panic).

+1 point each for:
-Heal support.
-Move-type specific field or combat buff (does not stack with basic field/combat buff).

+1.5 points each for:
-Status Staff support.
-"Special" field or combat buff support (ex. Falchion, Yato).

+2 points each for:
-Dance or Sing support (yes, refreshers double-dip with a good support score and the post-weighting refresher bonus).

Max. 3 points.

The overall unit rating is a calculation that factors the combat and support ratings, using the formula:

(combat rating * .9) + (support rating * .3333[...])
-Support rating is multiplied by 10, divided by 3 (effectively normalizing it to a scale of 10), and multiplied by .1, resulting in multiplied by .3333[...].

[End of file]

Some notes (if anyone actually bothered reading this far):

• I think the only thing I didn't really account for is dagger buff/debuff support. Going through my past ratings, it looks like I ended up throwing that into the +.5 category. As a result, a lot of daggers get victimized by the rating system.
• A lot of healers get victimized by this rating system. They're at least guaranteed a perfect support score (1.5 for Status Staff, 1 for Heal support, .5 for basic field/combat buff), but the 90% weight on the combat performance hurts (ex. Wrys, Lissa).
• I intentionally do not give 2-range units a bonus just for being a 2-range unit, as I prefer to focus on the unit's matchups themselves. There is certainly value in ranged initiation, but I don't feel that this value is so great it merits a bonus of its own.
• There's definitely subjectivity in determining what makes a unit's matchups "mediocre", "very strong", etc. The intention is for "passable against the advantage color" to be a midway between "unit cannot fight" and "unit is perfect against the advantage color", and I think the varying degrees of "poor" and "strong" on either side reflect that pretty well.

Lyn

• Spd-heavy but otherwise balanced and mediocre stat line, with decent Res, and low Atk and Def.
  • Sol Katti (built-in Desperation 2), with the effect refinement (built-in Desperation 3 and Brash Assault “4.5”) is a very powerful offensive tool that helps ensure her ability to double and gives her innate combat sustainability.
  • Strong green and decent red matchups on offense with a Life and Death/Wrath/Moonbow set when she is at 75% or lower HP (or reaches the 75% threshold in between attacks). A built-in Brash Assault effect allows her to cancel one follow-up inhibiting effect against foes that can counterattack. She has difficulty with Guard-carrying, Spd-stacking foes that cannot counterattack, and/or Def-stacking foes.
  • Mediocre defense matchups. She can use the enemy phase to set up her powerful Sol Katti/Moonbow/Wrath combo against melee foes.
• She has some ploy capability with a decent Res stat (if she’s not running Life and Death), in addition to the standard field/combat buff in her C passive slot.

Overall, I give her 7.5 for combat (strong green, decent red matchups on offense once her combo is set up; sustainability bonus), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, some ploy capability), for a total rating of 7/10.

Chrom

• Physical stat line featuring very high Atk, high HP, decent Def, low Spd, and very poor Res.
  • Access to Falchion (built-in Renewal 2, effective against dragons) gives him some sustain and a dragon-checking niche, which he can fulfill well with his high Atk. The Falchion effect refinement (built-in Renewal 3, Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 when adjacent to an ally, effective against dragons) is a powerful defensive tool
  • Access to Sealed Falchion (Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 when below 100% HP, effective against dragons) sacrifices his first round of combat and built-in self-healing to amplify his performance after he has taken damage. He is still perfectly capable of delivering non-blue dragon OHKOs from full HP, who will commonly run a "Breath" A Passive and possibly Close Def, neither of which are active on offense.
  • Capable of running an Atk-stacking Brave Sword set on offense for strong green and decent red matchups. He'll net losses to Def-stacking reds such as Steady Breath Dragons and Zelgius.
  • Very strong green and red 1-range matchups on the enemy phase with Falchion (Eff) and a Def-stacking Guard/QR set. Can even handle some lances. Takes a good chunk of damage from dragons, but can take a hit from them. Some sustain through built-in Renewal. Can also run a Distant Counter set, but takes a lot of damage from mages, and outright dies to those that can survive a counterattack and double him.
• Capable of providing Panic Ploy support for his team with a high HP stat, and has limited heal capability unless he opted to take a sword other than Falchion.

Overall, I give him 7.5 for combat (solid 1-range defense performance; bonus for having a useful combat niche), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, Panic Ploy potential), for a total rating of 7/10.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by LordFrigid
Support rating method change.

[Korath88]

Lyn

Ah right , the unit I rerolled for. However unlike other units with refines, her refinement doesn't really fix her problems, but frees up her B slot so you can fix it yourself. Thanks for nothing. But yeah, she wants a brazen Atk skill, wrath and an Atk boosting seal to patch up her sole problem-poor Atk.

Her base statline does not synergise with her new role at all, as she gets guaranteed followups making her high speed relatively worthless. Her performance post refine is good, but pales in comparison to newer sword units. 7/10

Chrom

Another unit I feel whose refine doesn't work well with his stats. Bond falchion works with a QR build, but as far as dragonslaying goes, this means taking a magical hit with his garbage Res, making him arguably a worse Roy in this regard, though his performance against physical units is still decent.

Sealed falchion tends towards an offensive fury build, but his speed is a little low to take advantage of it unlike Lucina.

Brave sword isn't nearly as effective as before due to enemies having much higher bulk, preventing ORKOs and due to the speed drop, will likely result in Chrom just dying. 

6/10, not terrible by any means but arguably the worst falchion user.

[redlight]

Lyn: Before she got her refinement she was basically a slower Lon'qu with more atk, def and res. Her refinement helped her out somewhat, but she needs a lot of effort to showcase it's might both in skillset customization and to get it to proc it's effect. Her attack value is in a bad spot and it's what I'd consider having a boon for. She has speed, but she doesn't need a boon for it at all due to Sol Katti's refine. Her speed is good enough to double slow enemies and possibly prevent doubling from fast unit's if she has a speed boosting A/seal slot skill, ally buff or the enemy has a speed debuff. Her defense is a bit below average from what you'd expect from a typical melee unit. Has good enough res to run ploy skills so I'd recommend running def ploy and spd ploy.
6.5: She's okay, but she's got problems. The good: Sol Katti is good when it procs, decent ploy user because of decent res, good speed, can easily receive infantry pulse, Sol Katti frees up her slots. The bad: getting Sol Katti to proc requires a lot of effort, low attack value, Sol Katti doesn't help out Lyn before she can proc it's effect, a bit fragile physically, I find Alm to be more reliable than Lyn in the player phase as well as his weapon doing other things such as dragon effectivness and renewal to keep him using his weapon's brave effect (both weapons proc in the player phase and you can see which unit you would have an easier time using as well as which one is more reliable), Sol Katti is her only viable option and it can be unreliable

Chrom: He comes with a stellar 37 base atk. His neutral speed is iffy, but with a superboon in speed he can reach 29, which isn't too difficult to work off of to put effort into having him double if you opt for a speed refined weapon and have allies buff Chrom as well as debuff enemies. His defense stat is average, res is garbage, but his hp is good enough to run support skills. His bond refinement suits him more than Lucina, as positioning for bond skills is very easy for enemy phase builds. Dragon effectiveness with his high attack packs a strong punch. Because of his physical bulk you can make him a tank. Is a good user of brave sword.
8: Pretty decent if you ask me. He's flexible in which phase you want him to be in, and can potentially have good omni phase potential. Has a lot of viable builds you can use him for. The good: Great atk, hp value is high enough to run support skills, good physical bulk, dragon slayer, workable speed, can be built in several different ways, great omni phase potential, healbot. The bad: being speedy requires support from allies and their skills, shit res, some builds lack player, bad spd for enemy phase or brave sword builds

Edited May 30, 2018 by silveraura25