Choose Your Legends 2018 (Arrival of the Brave): August 21 ~

[Cute Chao]

7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Good luck to you guys WRT Legault.  I finally got him. . .at -Atk.

Thanks and congrats :D ...Even if it figures xD 

I'm hoping to get one with good stats to promote, but both he and Libra seem to be avoiding me -.- Hopefully in the future... and not -Atk/Spd!

[Lewyn]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm using Celica and she seems to be pretty good at killing things. To the extent that I think a -Atk nature might be good for her. I find she only usually gets two attacks in before most enemies die, when I want her to attack four times so she can activate Galeforce and attack again. As cool as Death Blow 4 is, I might swap it out for Swift Sparrow so she definitely doubles everything (not that she needs much help doing that with almost 40 base speed) or maybe even Fortress Defense to increase her bulk and make sure she gets the full four attacks off.

Woah there, the Celica I pulled was -atk/+HP.  Trust me it is brutal, she is still effective but it definitely hurts.   I've noticed that there are blues she can't beat which she would otherwise, that is the biggest thing.  Probably some of the tougher more durable reds too.  I'm pairing her with Arvis, other than being an excellent teammate in general I think -atk needs those debuffs. 

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

I'll just assume Ephraim's good.  Haven't had a chance to fiddle with him, nor do I do well with defensive theorycrafting.

There was no way in hell Hector was going to be anything less than the top.  He's threatening on both phases, and can counter from anywhere.  Celica's good, but she's rather glassy, and Galeforce's timing is kinda weird.  I'd be tempted to give her something like Dragonic Aura.  Veronica is also unsurprising - she acts like a dagger user, but hits Res, can't be countered, and has a horse.

[Midnox]

42 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Woah there, the Celica I pulled was -atk/+HP.  Trust me it is brutal, she is still effective but it definitely hurts.   I've noticed that there are blues she can't beat which she would otherwise, that is the biggest thing.  Probably some of the tougher more durable reds too.  I'm pairing her with Arvis, other than being an excellent teammate in general I think -atk needs those debuffs. 

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

Holy shit, is she really that good? I’ve chosen her, but I still don’t see the need to change my team of the Reinhardt, BIike, VIke, and PA Azura

[Korath88]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

I'll just assume Ephraim's good.  Haven't had a chance to fiddle with him, nor do I do well with defensive theorycrafting.

Good would be an understatement honestly. He gets to double on both phases with no HP requirement and only a very easy to activate condition that doesn't even need an ally (armored boots/wave skills).

Special fighter's cooldown acceleration is more like steady breath than heavy blade in that enemy attacks also reduce cooldown by 2, on both phases to boot, making it even better than both fighter skills combined when paired with Garm. And it still has guard built in on top of that. It's inheritable but no one uses it as well as him anyways.

Regarding the tier list, I believe Ephraim also kicked OG Hector and Winter Chrom out of S+ if I didn't miss anything last update.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Korath88

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

Heavy Blade in the S slot?

IMO Celica doesn't want to be hit in return.  I think she'd work with Aether, so she can take a hit if necessary, but I don't have a lot of confidence in her ability to tank.

Good luck to you guys WRT Legault.  I finally got him. . .at -Atk.

Flashing Blade would work better than Heavy Blade due to her speed, leave Heavy Blade for a pony. She doesn't need it with her default set up though since her weapon already givers her special cooldown if there's an ally nearby. Swapping out her weapon for Firesweep (and giving her the Flashing Blade seal) seems like it could work wonders though. Just need to grind enough feathers and SP to get there.

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Woah there, the Celica I pulled was -atk/+HP.  Trust me it is brutal, she is still effective but it definitely hurts.   I've noticed that there are blues she can't beat which she would otherwise, that is the biggest thing.  Probably some of the tougher more durable reds too.  I'm pairing her with Arvis, other than being an excellent teammate in general I think -atk needs those debuffs. 

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

The first one I got for free had a neutral nature, but the one I ended up using had +atk/-def. I think it might have been better to go with the neutral one of plus attack. Course maybe I'm just looking at the grass being greener on the other side.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Jotari

[bottlegnomes]

5 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

4 hours ago, Korath88 said:

Regarding the tier list, I believe Ephraim also kicked OG Hector and Winter Chrom out of S+ if I didn't miss anything last update.

Yeah, I really don't know how I feel about that. I don't disagree with Ephraim being top tier—he's really good—but Hector can still do stupid things with Berserk Armads. Yeah, LA Hector does it better thanks to higher bulk, but Hector with it is like half a step down at most. Chrom is an easy pick for moving down though. Arguably best statline of the lot, but he doesn't have any toys to set him apart.

 

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

I'll just assume Ephraim's good.  Haven't had a chance to fiddle with him, nor do I do well with defensive theorycrafting.

4 hours ago, Korath88 said:

Good would be an understatement honestly. He gets to double on both phases with no HP requirement and only a very easy to activate condition that doesn't even need an ally (armored boots/wave skills).

Special fighter's cooldown acceleration is more like steady breath than heavy blade in that enemy attacks also reduce cooldown by 2, on both phases to boot, making it even better than both fighter skills combined when paired with Garm. And it still has guard built in on top of that. It's inheritable but no one uses it as well as him anyways.

Korath covered it quite well, but seconding that. He has possibly the most lenient double condition in the game, and is probably the only unit who can really take full advantage of Special Fighter. Eph's only real issue is that mages are actually a bit of a threat to him—Hector has Ostian Counter and BL if he feels like it. In that regard, res being a super boon might be a good thing for him. Bumps up his overall bulk quite a bit. Speed seems like it's the best dump stat, since 27 is already very low and dropping health hurts his bulk, but it's a super bane and maybe there's some threatening enemies that 27 lets him avoid doubles from? He's not perfect, but he's pretty freaking close.

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Flashing Blade would work better than Heavy Blade due to her speed, leave Heavy Blade for a pony. She doesn't need it with her default set up though since her weapon already givers her special cooldown if there's an ally nearby. Swapping out her weapon for Firesweep (and giving her the Flashing Blade seal) seems like it could work wonders though. Just need to grind enough feathers and SP to get there.

The first one I got for free had a neutral nature, but the one I ended up using had +atk/-def. I think it might have been better to go with the neutral one of plus attack. Course maybe I'm just looking at the grass being greener on the other side.

I feel like you might be. Celica's role is to kill the hell out of someone and not have to worry about taking that much of a counter in return. +atk helps her the most in that by a long shot. No matter how you build her, and why S seems perfectly reasonable, for her to operate optimally, she's going to need team support (Ayra, Karla, and Zelgius don't). -atk just seems like asking for trouble since, sure she'll proc galeforce, but she'll be hurting and probably won't even want to engage with another enemy. To simulate it, you can just run your neutral one with DB3.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Yeah, I really don't know how I feel about that. I don't disagree with Ephraim being top tier—he's really good—but Hector can still do stupid things with Berserk Armads. Yeah, LA Hector does it better thanks to higher bulk, but Hector with it is like half a step down at most. Chrom is an easy pick for moving down though. Arguably best statline of the lot, but he doesn't have any toys to set him apart.

 

Korath covered it quite well, but seconding that. He has possibly the most lenient double condition in the game, and is probably the only unit who can really take full advantage of Special Fighter. Eph's only real issue is that mages are actually a bit of a threat to him—Hector has Ostian Counter and BL if he feels like it. In that regard, res being a super boon might be a good thing for him. Bumps up his overall bulk quite a bit. Speed seems like it's the best dump stat, since 27 is already very low and dropping health hurts his bulk, but it's a super bane and maybe there's some threatening enemies that 27 lets him avoid doubles from? He's not perfect, but he's pretty freaking close.

 

I feel like you might be. Celica's role is to kill the hell out of someone and not have to worry about taking that much of a counter in return. +atk helps her the most in that by a long shot. No matter how you build her, and why S seems perfectly reasonable, for her to operate optimally, she's going to need team support (Ayra, Karla, and Zelgius don't). -atk just seems like asking for trouble since, sure she'll proc galeforce, but she'll be hurting and probably won't even want to engage with another enemy. To simulate it, you can just run your neutral one with DB3.

Neutral one has already died to give Reinhardt Death Blow 4.

[Usana]

. . .

So after driving my pity up rather high I finally got a Veronica. +DEF/-SPD. Really game? I was hoping for a V that would remove my need to use her as my free pick. You know like maybe +DEF/-RES or vice versa or something with HP? I think I would even take a +HP/-ATK happily. But speed? The one stat I care about for her?

Also annoying since I had a decent pity I figured I would open the others, but the game does not want to recognize my play balance. Redeemed a smallish gift card, but it is only recognizing the .04 before the card was redeemed. Balance shows up right everywhere else and even on the screen where it says insufficient funds and wants you to pick another method it acknowledges that I have more than 20. Yet I can't buy a 12.99 pack to see if the other orbs have anything nifty in them. Maybe a nice Celica or Ephraim would take some of the -SPD pain away(Ephraim will probably be +SPD, just you wait).

[Lewyn]

On 8/25/2018 at 5:30 PM, eclipse said:

I'll just assume Ephraim's good.  Haven't had a chance to fiddle with him, nor do I do well with defensive theorycrafting.

There was no way in hell Hector was going to be anything less than the top.  He's threatening on both phases, and can counter from anywhere.  Celica's good, but she's rather glassy, and Galeforce's timing is kinda weird.  I'd be tempted to give her something like Dragonic Aura.  Veronica is also unsurprising - she acts like a dagger user, but hits Res, can't be countered, and has a horse.

Yeah none of the ratings are surprising.  Ephraim is the one I don't have, but great stats and Garm pairs well with Special Fighter.  Hector is crazy, and his res stat is impressive when coupled with ostian counter.  So all that destructive power on both phases (Ignis every time), counter from everywhere, and surprising mixed bulk, in addition his seal slot is open for whatever you want.  Celica you can either go for lower cooldown special for more destructive power and not taking any retaliatory damage, or go all out for quading and galeforce.  However guess not quite enough to match Zelgius, Ayra, Karla with more flexibility in builds and not so dependent on an effect that requires maintaining full health.  Veronica best healer, and her PRF staff is insane.  

On 8/25/2018 at 6:09 PM, Midnox said:

Holy shit, is she really that good? I’ve chosen her, but I still don’t see the need to change my team of the Reinhardt, BIike, VIke, and PA Azura

She is great on the player phase.  If you have her, you should try her out.  She is already mostly pre built and set to go.  

On 8/25/2018 at 6:58 PM, Jotari said:

 

The first one I got for free had a neutral nature, but the one I ended up using had +atk/-def. I think it might have been better to go with the neutral one of plus attack. Course maybe I'm just looking at the grass being greener on the other side.

+atk/-res is considered her best nature.  Sounds like you made the right choice in which Celica to fodder, I'm jealous +atk you must be wrecking things left and right.

20 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Yeah, I really don't know how I feel about that. I don't disagree with Ephraim being top tier—he's really good—but Hector can still do stupid things with Berserk Armads. Yeah, LA Hector does it better thanks to higher bulk, but Hector with it is like half a step down at most. Chrom is an easy pick for moving down though. Arguably best statline of the lot, but he doesn't have any toys to set him apart.

 

Korath covered it quite well, but seconding that. He has possibly the most lenient double condition in the game, and is probably the only unit who can really take full advantage of Special Fighter. Eph's only real issue is that mages are actually a bit of a threat to him—Hector has Ostian Counter and BL if he feels like it. In that regard, res being a super boon might be a good thing for him. Bumps up his overall bulk quite a bit. Speed seems like it's the best dump stat, since 27 is already very low and dropping health hurts his bulk, but it's a super bane and maybe there's some threatening enemies that 27 lets him avoid doubles from? He's not perfect, but he's pretty freaking close.

 

 

I think the only reason Eprhaim is getting slightly overlooked is the green armor pool is bloated with powerhouse units.  

[eclipse]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I think the only reason Eprhaim is getting slightly overlooked is the green armor pool is bloated with powerhouse units.  

He lacks innate DC.  If I had a spare Hector, and I somehow got him, he'd totally inherit it.

[Ice Dragon]

On 8/25/2018 at 5:26 PM, Lewyn said:

Gamepedia updated with the Brave units for their arena offense list.  Brave Celica put in S tier, right now rated less than Ayra, BK, Zelgius and Karla who are S+.  Brave Hector makes quite the impact knocking Hardin out of S+ and occupying that spot for himself while Hardin drops to S.  Brave Ephraim gets placed in S+ with LA and legendary Hectors.  Veronica placed at S+ by herself, above all other staff users.  

Brave Hector actually pushed down all lances and blue breaths by one tier (including Azura, but not Ninian, which is strange).

I'm going to want to see what their reasoning is for not dropping the blue tomes and Ninian because this update is equivalent to putting Hector one tier above everything else and moving blue tomes and Ninian up one tier, which makes no sense unless they have an argument that they were undervaluing ranged blue units.

 

On 8/25/2018 at 6:40 PM, Korath88 said:

Regarding the tier list, I believe Ephraim also kicked OG Hector and Winter Chrom out of S+ if I didn't miss anything last update.

All axes lower than S were dropped one tier, and Chrom was dropped to S. All of the Hectors are still S+.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Hector actually pushed down all lances and blue breaths by one tier (including Azura, but not Ninian, which is strange).

I'm going to want to see what their reasoning is for not dropping the blue tomes and Ninian because this update is equivalent to putting Hector one tier above everything else and moving blue tomes and Ninian up one tier, which makes no sense unless they have an argument that they were undervaluing ranged blue units.

 

All axes lower than S were dropped one tier, and Chrom was dropped to S. All of the Hectors are still S+.

I do think that Ephraim is by far better then Hector with Special Fighter and Garm if you give him Distant Counter. His whole kit is so anti meta revolving around Garm and Special Fighter that it counters alot of the current special cooldown builds while he benefits heavy from it still and still can ignore the speed stat due to Garm.

Armor Lyn prolly remained on the S tier because of Special Fighter. She can make good use out of it with her high speed as an Armorer. Ninian  agree though should drop one tier. Karel on the other hand should be moved from A+ to S-. Nameless Blade pushes him that much further.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Hilda

[Korath88]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Hector actually pushed down all lances and blue breaths by one tier (including Azura, but not Ninian, which is strange).

I'm going to want to see what their reasoning is for not dropping the blue tomes and Ninian because this update is equivalent to putting Hector one tier above everything else and moving blue tomes and Ninian up one tier, which makes no sense unless they have an argument that they were undervaluing ranged blue units.

 

All axes lower than S were dropped one tier, and Chrom was dropped to S. All of the Hectors are still S+.

Huh. I'm pretty certain OG Hector was in S when I checked that day but he's back in S+ now for what it's worth.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

I do think that Ephraim is by far better then Hector with Special Fighter and Garm if you give him Distant Counter. His whole kit is so anti meta revolving around Garm and Special Fighter that it counters alot of the current special cooldown builds while he benefits heavy from it still and still can ignore the speed stat due to Garm.

The gap between Ephraim and the three green Hectors is much smaller than the gap between blue Hector and the other lance armors.

All of the lance armors except Hardin only have access to inheritable skills, and Hardin's one non-inheritable skill does not give him an effective additional skill slot. Gradivus only has one skill on it, which is less than refined Slaying Lance+. Brave Hector, on the other hand, loses the +5 HP and +4 Def or Res from the Slaying Lance+ refinement, but gains Quick Riposte 5, Death Blow 1, Fierce Stance 3, and Steady Stance 2, which is one hell of a good deal. Not only is that a damned good trade, but it also fully frees up his Sacred Seal slot for both (1) another skill and (2) to give a different unit Quick Riposte, the latter of which is insane for team building. Hector is pretty much identical to Hardin, but gets Quick Riposte, Fierce Stance, and his Sacred Seal slot for free on top of everything Hardin would have.

Ephraim, on the other hand, is competing with the strongest armors already existing in the game. In contrast to the above situation, Ephraim's competition are all units that already don't need to run the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal. Hector and Valentine Hector have access to the strongest weapon in the game in Berserk Armads, i.e., you don't need an accelerated Special charge rate, Guard, or a guaranteed follow-up when you can have double Wrath to instantly delete enemies. Legendary Hector is pretty much the bulkiest unit in the game, being able to have enemy-phase Omnibreaker when running Vengeful Fighter or dual-phase Omnibreaker running Bold Fighter with Quick Riposte. Ephraim pretty much sits right in between those two extremes rather than sitting above them.

 

2 hours ago, Hilda said:

Armor Lyn prolly remained on the S tier because of Special Fighter. She can make good use out of it with her high speed as an Armorer. Ninian  agree though should drop one tier.

That doesn't explain why every blue ranged character stayed where they were. Neither Odin nor Sharena got anything new out of this update (neither of them can use Special Fighter and neither of them use Death Blow on an optimal build), but Sharena moved down whereas Odin did not. Sharena is now in the same tier as Odin where she was previously above.

 

1 minute ago, Korath88 said:

Huh. I'm pretty certain OG Hector was in S when I checked that day but he's back in S+ now for what it's worth.

The only time the original Hector was in S was for the short while after Berserk Armads was released (which pushed him down to S), but before he had access to it through the Weapon Refinery (which moved him back up to S+).

Despite Valentine Hector having better stats than original Hector, Gamepedia has repeatedly asserted that the difference isn't large enough to put them in separate tiers.

[Korath88]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

The gap between Ephraim and the three green Hectors is much smaller than the gap between blue Hector and the other lance armors.

All of the lance armors except Hardin only have access to inheritable skills, and Hardin's one non-inheritable skill does not give him an effective additional skill slot. Gradivus only has one skill on it, which is less than refined Slaying Lance+. Brave Hector, on the other hand, loses the +5 HP and +4 Def or Res from the Slaying Lance+ refinement, but gains Quick Riposte 5, Death Blow 1, Fierce Stance 3, and Steady Stance 2, which is one hell of a good deal. Not only is that a damned good trade, but it also fully frees up his Sacred Seal slot for both (1) another skill and (2) to give a different unit Quick Riposte, the latter of which is insane for team building. Hector is pretty much identical to Hardin, but gets Quick Riposte, Fierce Stance, and his Sacred Seal slot for free on top of everything Hardin would have.

Ephraim, on the other hand, is competing with the strongest armors already existing in the game. In contrast to the above situation, Ephraim's competition are all units that already don't need to run the Quick Riposte Sacred Seal. Hector and Valentine Hector have access to the strongest weapon in the game in Berserk Armads, i.e., you don't need an accelerated Special charge rate, Guard, or a guaranteed follow-up when you can have double Wrath to instantly delete enemies. Legendary Hector is pretty much the bulkiest unit in the game, being able to have enemy-phase Omnibreaker when running Vengeful Fighter or dual-phase Omnibreaker running Bold Fighter with Quick Riposte. Ephraim pretty much sits right in between those two extremes rather than sitting above them.

 

That doesn't explain why every blue ranged character stayed where they were. Neither Odin nor Sharena got anything new out of this update (neither of them can use Special Fighter and neither of them use Death Blow on an optimal build), but Sharena moved down whereas Odin did not. Sharena is now in the same tier as Odin where she was previously above.

 

The only time the original Hector was in S was for the short while after Berserk Armads was released (which pushed him down to S), but before he had access to it through the Weapon Refinery (which moved him back up to S+).

Despite Valentine Hector having better stats than original Hector, Gamepedia has repeatedly asserted that the difference isn't large enough to put them in separate tiers.

Found some proof I wasn't hallucinating. 

Not quite sure why that happened but at least I'm now sure it did.

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Found some proof I wasn't hallucinating. 

Not quite sure why that happened but at least I'm now sure it did.

According to the change log, they had originally moved original Hector down to S tier. Then, 22 hours later, moved Valentine Hector down to S tier. Then, an hour and a half later, moved both of them back up.

No idea why.

[bottlegnomes]

42 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

According to the change log, they had originally moved original Hector down to S tier. Then, 22 hours later, moved Valentine Hector down to S tier. Then, an hour and a half later, moved both of them back up.

No idea why.

I'm guess how good Eph was finally clicked for someone and they got overly zealous. Then calmer heads prevailed and realized Berserk Armads borders on unfairly powerful.

But yeah, glad to see Hector back in S+. Wrath letting him OHKO 99% of the cast (literally) warrants that even if he isn't the best at it.

[Hilda]

@Ice DragonI was comparing Ephraim to the green Hectors rather. Ephraim doesnt need QR with Garms effect, he doubles in both phases with a buff and coupled with Special Fighter and Garm he has Vengefull/Bold/Steady Breath/Guard all rolled into one. He can basicly proc Ignis every round or Aether on enemy phase if he gets doubled , meanwhile he prevents anyone else to proc on him. That sounds hella more powerfull to me

[bottlegnomes]

@Hilda Thing is, unlike the Hectors, he needs to take an attack and probably double on EP. All the Hectors have some way of suppressing enemy attacks altogether via super vantage special combo in regular and LA Hectors' cases, or some wary fighter equivalent in all three's cases. A second attack aether doesn't mean a ton when your first attack in a likelihood brought the enemy down to single digits health, and Eph can't run vantage. His bulk is very good, but it is crackable, and health skills either mean sacrificing extra damage (not the end of the world with 57 attack) or a long wind up with possibly not a lot of payoff in aether's case.

Edited August 27, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Hilda]

2 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Hilda Thing is, unlike the Hectors, he needs to take an attack and probably double on EP. All the Hectors have some way of suppressing enemy attacks altogether via super vantage special combo in regular and LA Hectors' cases, or some wary fighter equivalent in all three's cases. A second attack aether doesn't mean a ton when your first attack in a likelihood brought the enemy down to single digits health, and Eph can't run vantage. His bulk is very good, but it is crackable, and health skills either mean sacrificing extra damage (not the end of the world with 57 attack) or a long wind up with possibly not a lot of payoff in aether's case.

If you are using Vantage on Armored units that have access to Bold/Vengefull/Special fighter in the age of Firesweep weapons and wrazzle dazzle you are doing it wrong... Vantage is definitly not the reason what makes Green Hectors good and it definitly is much easier to deal with Vantage Green Hector lulz. Bait him and be done with him when you double him back. And as i said Ephraim doesnt need to run Aether.

[bottlegnomes]

13 minutes ago, Hilda said:

If you are using Vantage on Armored units that have access to Bold/Vengefull/Special fighter in the age of Firesweep weapons and wrazzle dazzle you are doing it wrong... Vantage is definitly not the reason what makes Green Hectors good and it definitly is much easier to deal with Vantage Green Hector lulz. Bait him and be done with him when you double him back. And as i said Ephraim doesnt need to run Aether.

Tier lists assume the unit is under player control?

Neither non-legendary really gains much from any of those skills. BA takes care of all practical necessary special charging and follow-ups don't matter when you're OHKOing the enemy anyway. Guard might be nice, but they'd rather not take an attack at all than slow the enemy's special. Wrath is probably their ideal B slot for player control all things considered though.

Edited August 27, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

If you are using Vantage on Armored units that have access to Bold/Vengefull/Special fighter in the age of Firesweep weapons and wrazzle dazzle you are doing it wrong... Vantage is definitly not the reason what makes Green Hectors good and it definitly is much easier to deal with Vantage Green Hector lulz. Bait him and be done with him when you double him back. And as i said Ephraim doesnt need to run Aether.

Every tier list currently out there is for Arena offense. The AI can't bait the player.

Hector and Valentine Hector both run as their optimal set

Hector [+Atk] (Berserk Armads, Bonfire, Distant Counter / Death Blow 4, Wrath 3, Quickened Pulse)

which is intended to activate Wrath after the first round of combat and then one-hit kill everything dead on player phase or enemy phase.

Legendary Hector runs one of

Legendary Hector [+Atk] (Thunder Armads, Bonfire, Distant Counter, Vengeful Fighter 3, Close Def 3 / Distant Def 3)
Legendary Hector [+Atk] (Thunder Armads, Bonfire, Distant Counter / Death Blow 4, Bold Fighter 3, [Quick Riposte 3])

which gives Omnibreaker on one or both phases.

Ephraim runs

Brave Ephraim [+Atk] (Garm, Ignis / Aether, Distant Counter, Special Fighter 3, Close Def 3 / Distant Def 3)

which isn't so much better than any of the Hectors to warrant a new tier.

 

[Lewyn]

22 hours ago, eclipse said:

He lacks innate DC.  If I had a spare Hector, and I somehow got him, he'd totally inherit it.

Yeah this kind of makes him the poorest choice for picking free CYL2 unit if you are FTP at least.  On top of that the other green armors besides Winter Chrom all have distant counter, they are all built and ready to go.  The other Brave units are also like this.  

21 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Hector actually pushed down all lances and blue breaths by one tier (including Azura, but not Ninian, which is strange).

I'm going to want to see what their reasoning is for not dropping the blue tomes and Ninian because this update is equivalent to putting Hector one tier above everything else and moving blue tomes and Ninian up one tier, which makes no sense unless they have an argument that they were undervaluing ranged blue units.

 

All axes lower than S were dropped one tier, and Chrom was dropped to S. All of the Hectors are still S+.

They usually post on reddit when they are set to release their tier changes and explanations for new units, people can ask questions too for the reasoning so it is good to check out.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

They usually post on reddit when they are set to release their tier changes and explanations for new units, people can ask questions too for the reasoning so it is good to check out.

I'm well aware. I read every single one.