Aether Raids General Thread

[Othin]

Extra blessings are really nice. And still the same amount of refining stones, although shifted a bit to later in the week. Looks like my concerns about running out of light blessings won't be an issue, it's actually feasible to throw them at random bonus units now.

Maybe in the long run, after all four elements get added and get a decent number of blessings, weekly blessings will alternate between Light/Dark and Astra/Anima?

[Nanima]

I did indeed slip into Tier 18 again. But I don't feel too bad about it, since I won every single battle I did today. Without losing a unit and getting every pot. Even with reduced payoff I like it a lot more. It's funny how much of a difference a single tier can make. Already halfway up to Tier 19 again. Let's see how I do it this time.

[Arcphoenix]

Something I haven’t seen discussed so I wanted to ask, what’s everyone’s thoughts on AR’s scoring system? I know we all hate the arena’s bst and bonus kills system. Would AR’s system work for Arena?

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Arcphoenix said:

Something I haven’t seen discussed so I wanted to ask, what’s everyone’s thoughts on AR’s scoring system? I know we all hate the arena’s bst and bonus kills system. Would AR’s system work for Arena?

Not if the Arena keeps its current system of being able to decline matches at no cost and being able to redo your run as many times as you have restores.

The problem is that the offense scoring system for Aether Raids is entirely determined by 3 factors:

1. Performance
2. Blessings
3. Mythic Merges

The problem is with number 1, performance. It works as scoring criteria in Aether Raids because every match counts. In Arena where you can redo your run until you get a perfect run, competitively, performance will always be perfect.

This means the only thing that affects your score if this were implemented in Arena would be the use of blessings and the number of Mythic Hero pulls you've made, which is 100% pay to win.

 

And if you remove the ability to redo your run as many times as you want (until you run out of restores), then all you have is a second Aether Raids mode minus the ability to build your own map, which seems kind of pointless.

[Vicious Sal]

So I've been wanting to try something a bit more creative, since I have T21 and don't have to climb anymore except for the ranks that reset each week. I haven't seen any team yet that utilises Pass, and I wanted to try and build something creative with that. However, I am at a loss right now, I just don't seem to be able to grasp the A.I.'s order. So if anyone would be able to lend a hand and maybe spot some improvements, that would be very much appreciated.

 

So currently I have this setup: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vThokwj1Cu58KeY_6QAAwgdXSBX7hMgD8O53G4QKzTWKRn9FZIJXGFyPP1oGs6WH1150SVxLqFfeZqO/pubhtml?gid=1865373777&single=true

I have three core units that I would like to utilise. L!Hector, Tibarn and L!Azura. My idea was to get Tibarn to either rally someone and then attack the weakest target, where he could bypass the frontline of the enemy, or have him attack himself, proc galeforce/get danced, Attack again and maybe proc galeforce after the dance. Hector is built to survive and trigger the A.I. to start moving. So far I tried using Takumi with his refine to get the jump on people, double dancers and Wings of mercy shenanigans, but I can't seems to get a consistent pattern going. The last three people are rather variable, currently they are units that overlap in range and Veronica for example has an instant Windfire balm buff, so that azura can turn that 6/6/0/0 into 6/6/6/6. But that isn't mandatory.

The map is abandoned castle, with the units being green, breakable structures orange etc. the yellow is the turn 1 attack range. 

[Raven]

I'm running this.

Old man emblem. Gharnef and Bartre may be a stretch, but I think FEH's really lacking in the old-aged unit department.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

50 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

So I've been wanting to try something a bit more creative, since I have T21 and don't have to climb anymore except for the ranks that reset each week. I haven't seen any team yet that utilises Pass, and I wanted to try and build something creative with that. However, I am at a loss right now, I just don't seem to be able to grasp the A.I.'s order. So if anyone would be able to lend a hand and maybe spot some improvements, that would be very much appreciated.

 

So currently I have this setup: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vThokwj1Cu58KeY_6QAAwgdXSBX7hMgD8O53G4QKzTWKRn9FZIJXGFyPP1oGs6WH1150SVxLqFfeZqO/pubhtml?gid=1865373777&single=true

I have three core units that I would like to utilise. L!Hector, Tibarn and L!Azura. My idea was to get Tibarn to either rally someone and then attack the weakest target, where he could bypass the frontline of the enemy, or have him attack himself, proc galeforce/get danced, Attack again and maybe proc galeforce after the dance. Hector is built to survive and trigger the A.I. to start moving. So far I tried using Takumi with his refine to get the jump on people, double dancers and Wings of mercy shenanigans, but I can't seems to get a consistent pattern going. The last three people are rather variable, currently they are units that overlap in range and Veronica for example has an instant Windfire balm buff, so that azura can turn that 6/6/0/0 into 6/6/6/6. But that isn't mandatory.

The map is abandoned castle, with the units being green, breakable structures orange etc. the yellow is the turn 1 attack range. 

Tibarn + Galeforce would probably work, though I don't know if it would differ that much from just running a regular Galeforce Tibarn build because his offense is so strong and 3 Move will usually get him around the tank if there's not terrain blocking him.

I did see someone attempt to do a Pass Reinhardt + refresher setup, but, interestingly, Rein just didn't have enough reach to do much of anything with it. Or rather, I guess his weapon range wasn't really conducive to it. He attacked my tank, then got refreshed, but since my only support was standing two tiles back from my tank, Rein's only options were to attack my tank again or run in between both units and not attack (which the AI won't do). I guess the lesson learned from that is that, even if it's not a Galeforce unit, the only things likely to be able to take real advantage of Pass shenanigans is a cavalry melee, transformed bird or L!Azura-launched flier/infantry melee.

[Rezzy]

4 hours ago, Raven said:

I'm running this.

Old man emblem. Gharnef and Bartre may be a stretch, but I think FEH's really lacking in the old-aged unit department.

It's been quite a while since I've run into a team that wasn't optimized, or at least tried to.

I think the last "easy" one I had was Minerva, Maria, and Michalis.  I also saw one that was just Arden.

[Othin]

I made an anima team (mostly legendaries) just for the lift loss reduction, and now that I'm in T21 I've started just leaving it in place for light seasons too. At least until I get a dark mythic.

It's not exactly a freebie, but it's not good, either. Includes my Silvia and Ishtar who still have just their base skill sets. (With the exception of a refine on Silvia's weapon.)

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Raven said:

Old man emblem. Gharnef and Bartre may be a stretch, but I think FEH's really lacking in the old-aged unit department.

At least old men got representation. I think the only old woman I know in all of Fire Emblem is Niime.

I guess Nowi and A!Tiki and most other manaketes and Laguz technically are older, but they do not look old though.

Edited March 6, 2019 by XRay

[Othin]

Hmm. Tomorrow I'll be able to hit 1500 dew to upgrade my offense fortress to lv4, but only if I find a way to spend 500 stones. The only thing I really care about building that I don't have yet is Panic Manor lv4, which is 700 stones, and that'd require putting off the offense fortress upgrade until the end of the season.

Currently, I've built everything at lv1, but the only things I've spent stones on upgrading so far are my offense Tactics Room and Panic Manor, both of which are lv3. So spending 500 stones would, as far as I can tell, require upgrading both traps to lv2 and then spending the other 300 to upgrade either one normal structure or two schools. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Alternatively I could wait until Thursday when I'll have 550 stones, so I'd only have to spend 100 on defense. I don't really care about defense much right now, I'd rather focus on offense.

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Currently, I've built everything at lv1, but the only things I've spent stones on upgrading so far are my offense Tactics Room and Panic Manor, both of which are lv3. So spending 500 stones would, as far as I can tell, require upgrading both traps to lv2 and then spending the other 300 to upgrade either one normal structure or two schools. Does anyone have any recommendations?

I'm a Catapult fan, if only for how convenient it is to take out structures that block my path but are too far back to hit. Running Tactics Room 3, Catapult 3, Escape Ladder 3, and everything else just level 1

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Hmm. Tomorrow I'll be able to hit 1500 dew to upgrade my offense fortress to lv4, but only if I find a way to spend 500 stones. The only thing I really care about building that I don't have yet is Panic Manor lv4, which is 700 stones, and that'd require putting off the offense fortress upgrade until the end of the season.

Currently, I've built everything at lv1, but the only things I've spent stones on upgrading so far are my offense Tactics Room and Panic Manor, both of which are lv3. So spending 500 stones would, as far as I can tell, require upgrading both traps to lv2 and then spending the other 300 to upgrade either one normal structure or two schools. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Alternatively I could wait until Thursday when I'll have 550 stones, so I'd only have to spend 100 on defense. I don't really care about defense much right now, I'd rather focus on offense.

If you intend to climb to the next tier this week, then I would spend the Aether Stones to get the Dew. Getting as high as possible as soon as possible is more important in my opinion.

If you do not intend to climb, then I would save your Aether Stones. I am kind of reluctant to spend my Aether Stones too since I have already upgraded all Structures I want already.

The only Aether Stone Structures I have upgraded pass level 1 are just my Tactics Room (O) Lv. 4, Panic Room (O) Lv. 3, and Escape Ladder (O) Lv. 3. Those three Structures along with my Fort (O) are my core offensive buildings. I will probably upgrade my Schools (O) and Catalpult (O) next as they become Bonus Structures.

I would have done Healing Tower (O), but I only use it for my climbing team and only when it is a Bonus Structure; since I am in Tier 20 now, two weeks from now will be the last time I use my climbing team, so that means there is no point in upgrading Healing Tower (O) anymore. I cannot use Healing Tower (O) with my main team because it would ruin my Laevatein's Vantage. I do not want to upgrade Bolt Tower (O) either since that is just asking for suicide via Wings of Mercy or Desperation. I generally place the two Towers (O) far to the side when they are Bonus.

I do not plan to spend any on defense any time soon either since I do not really need that much Lift saving from defense wins after I reach Tier 21.

[Raven]

Well, that's one way to identify other SFers.

[Othin]

6 hours ago, Johann said:

I'm a Catapult fan, if only for how convenient it is to take out structures that block my path but are too far back to hit. Running Tactics Room 3, Catapult 3, Escape Ladder 3, and everything else just level 1

I haven't been running catapult, I've found it to cause too many problems. Especially when I forget about it and pick my team with a plan of making use of an obstacle and then it gets destroyed.

And I do have escape ladder maxed, I forgot about that.

6 hours ago, XRay said:

If you intend to climb to the next tier this week, then I would spend the Aether Stones to get the Dew. Getting as high as possible as soon as possible is more important in my opinion.

If you do not intend to climb, then I would save your Aether Stones. I am kind of reluctant to spend my Aether Stones too since I have already upgraded all Structures I want already.

The only Aether Stone Structures I have upgraded pass level 1 are just my Tactics Room (O) Lv. 4, Panic Room (O) Lv. 3, and Escape Ladder (O) Lv. 3. Those three Structures along with my Fort (O) are my core offensive buildings. I will probably upgrade my Schools (O) and Catalpult (O) next as they become Bonus Structures.

I would have done Healing Tower (O), but I only use it for my climbing team and only when it is a Bonus Structure; since I am in Tier 20 now, two weeks from now will be the last time I use my climbing team, so that means there is no point in upgrading Healing Tower (O) anymore. I cannot use Healing Tower (O) with my main team because it would ruin my Laevatein's Vantage. I do not want to upgrade Bolt Tower (O) either since that is just asking for suicide via Wings of Mercy or Desperation. I generally place the two Towers (O) far to the side when they are Bonus.

I do not plan to spend any on defense any time soon either since I do not really need that much Lift saving from defense wins after I reach Tier 21.

I'm in T21, so not really trying to go anywhere. Just want to make my offense battles minimum hassle, really.

[XRay]

6 hours ago, Othin said:

I'm in T21, so not really trying to go anywhere. Just want to make my offense battles minimum hassle, really.

I would wait until the end of the week for getting Panic Manor to Lv. 4 then since that is your core building that you use a lot.

[Othin]

15 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would wait until the end of the week for getting Panic Manor to Lv. 4 then since that is your core building that you use a lot.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards that. May as well ignore defense buildings completely, at least as long as I can.

[Chrom-ulent]

Today's offense wins: I thump the scum who took 60 of my lift and come out 41 ahead, and then get some armored foes stuck behind their defense fort and repeatedly whacked by Pain+.

[Diovani Bressan]

I was making the calculation of how many battles I still have for this season, how many  lift I can earn and how many I need to reach next tier... And the conclusion is that I will not reach next Tier this season. If I don't destroy any resource structures, I will have 8 battles until the season ends... and since the max I can get is 140 lift, if I get 8 perfect battles I will get 1.120 lift. I need 1.000 lift right now to reach next Tier... And there are the defensive loses that I may get... Well... No promotion for me this season.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

6 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

 If I don't destroy any resource structures, ...

Why not try doing it instead? 1 or 2 matches more will give you quite some leeway to mitigate defense losses.

[DehNutCase]

On 3/5/2019 at 8:49 AM, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is with number 1, performance. It works as scoring criteria in Aether Raids because every match counts. In Arena where you can redo your run until you get a perfect run, competitively, performance will always be perfect.

I mean, performance is always perfect in AR if you bother using effort and time. AI has exactly one tie-breaker that the player doesn't know about (slot priority), but that particular tie-breaker has the second lowest priority---it only takes precedence over tile priority---so it's fairly simple to make sure it doesn't come up.

The only difference between taking an hour to perfectly predict the AI for one map and redoing AR maps for an hour is that the second method actually involves playing the game.

 

@Arcphoenix For the record, I prefer the Arena scoring method to the AR scoring method. Mostly because Arena, at least, doesn't fucking matter from a resource acquisition standpoint.

The entire reason AR is a cancerous game mode is because it needed to be this kind of cancerous in order to make the scoring method actually work. People have to attack every day or else the defense score loss becomes too inconsistent, so you're heavily penalized for missing days. People have to play perfect every game or else free win maps dominate scoring, so you're heavily penalized for not perfectly solving a map before starting it. People have to lug around 2 or 3 copies of mythics because 5 man optimized teams stomp defense teams without even trying, so you're heavily penalized if you don't run 2-3 mythics. Mind, there are 5 man optimized teams that involve using Mythics, but that's a tiny sub-set of the total amount of optimized 5 man teams. Most offensive teams don't work well if they lose unit-turns due to dragging dead weight around---you can usually carry 1 without problems, but 2 or 3 start becoming nightmarish without using stuff like Galeforce or going mix-phase.

 

I say this despite being T21 in AR and like, T17 or something in Arena. If AR rewards didn't matter then I wouldn't mind it as much, I'd just sit in T12 or whatever the you can't lose lift tier is forever, but AR rewards flowers & grails.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

I mean, performance is always perfect in AR if you bother using effort and time.

Most players don't have all three of the barracks, effort, and time to achieve perfect performance in Aether Raids. Arena requires less of all three, making perfect performance more trivially achievable.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Most players don't have all three of the barracks, effort, and time to achieve perfect performance in Aether Raids. Arena requires less of all three, making perfect performance more trivially achievable.

Mind, I think part of that is because AR doesn't have a free play option.

 

Like, I do remember when I was bad enough at the game that Arena gave me trouble, but I got less and less bad as I played Arena more and more. AR doesn't let you do that to learn at all. Which is why 'cheese' maps that rely on misplays still work. The more people face cheese maps the more they learn how to play against them, but AR's design doesn't let you learn the game by playing, because you flat out don't get to play that much.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Mind, I think part of that is because AR doesn't have a free play option.

The fact that it doesn't have a free play option means that any hypothetical considerations that rely on a free play option being available are completely irrelevant.

[DehNutCase]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The fact that it doesn't have a free play option means that any hypothetical considerations that rely on a free play option being available are completely irrelevant.

It does have a P2P option, though.

 

Just whale hard enough to build every defense team that gives you trouble and practice against it.

Edit: And I guess if you're going that far you'd also get the 'just simulate AR in a browser' option.

Edited March 7, 2019 by DehNutCase