Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Alastor15243]

Shadows of Valentia Day 10: More Botes

Okay, let's try this again, hopefully without any nasty crits. Hope's all I got though, because crit avoid is just luck divided by 2 plus support bonuses, and so I have literally nobody capable of fully negating this guy's crits. Nobody.

Honestly, I've been thinking that criticals should probably be heavily revamped. Not removed, just... revamped. One idea I had was that they were replaced with a less powerful effect that always activated if your skill beat, by a certain threshold, the target's luck (which I would also personally change to courage or willpower because that's a trait it actually makes sense to improve in with training). These would be things like extra damage, or status effects, etc. Possibly depending on the weapon. Skill really needs some kind of concrete “threshold” system to compete with doubling, something that makes individual points in the stat actually matter more. Something that makes a secret book have more of an impact on a unit than 3 or 4 points in accuracy and 1 point in crit. Because compared to something like speedwings, an energy drop, or a dracoshield... that's fucking garbage. As it stands, crit builds barely depend on a unit's stats at all. It's always about stacking class bonuses, or skills, or weapon stats. A unit's skill stat, or more specifically, individual differences between units' skill stats... that stuff is almost never relevant enough to trump skill or class access.

Yep, Celica got nothing but skill and speed this time. Shame I had to lose that great level. But at least she only needs one more speed to double necrodragons with seraphim. Which means all I have to do is actually get her to learn seraphim.

No problems there, that's something she gets at level 5. But she apparently won't be getting recover until level nine. Huh. I kinda remembered her getting it pretty early on.

Thankfully, that defense level that Saber just got (along with HP) means he can now survive a single crit and normal hit from the mercenary. So I think we're home free.

Mae didn't get speed this time, but she did get attack, luck and defense. Honestly, given how terrible her defense is, I'm actually not sure that lucky point is gonna make a difference. But yeah, now that the enemies on the west side are down, so time to take out this mercenary with magic while Saber holds him off.

Saber's defense growth, which is roughly comparable to Kliff's, is actually kicking in, and he's gotten two defense procs in as many levels. That's gonna be good to have. Better make sure I don't fuck this up so I can lock this in.

Genny reached level 4 and learned invoke. I'm not a huge fan of these abilities, as the summons don't gain exp, but they seem pretty fun to use.

Mae's second level up got her attack, speed and luck. I'm noticing a lot more level ups now. I guess the enemy levels are finally catching up to the level of our party.

Right, so, ocean currents force us to go past Barth's keep, and Celica decides to actually land instead of sailing past it as quickly as possible. The old man who let us use his boat seems to think this is madness, which makes me question what the fuck he expected Celica to be able to do about the pirate problem.

...Yeah, uh... for all of the talk in this thread about Alm's major flaw being his reckless following of his conscience and resorting to violence too quickly... Celica's... just charging a goddamned pirate stronghold and ignoring the warnings of everyone around her that this is dangerous (including one very disgruntled mercenary who didn't sign up for this shit).

Also... at least in this scene... Celica has that same quality that I so utterly despised in Eirika: that knack for making incredibly reckless, emotion-fueled, dangerous decisions with little time to think about them, all with the disposition of somebody who's calmly given them a ton of rational thought and calm planning. But make no mistake: Celica is not as bad as Eirika. At least not yet. In Celica's case, unlike with Eirika, I don't get the same feeling that the story would've gone nigh-identically without her.

But do Boey or Mae or Genny have, like, literally anything to say about this decision?

...Wait, I don't think Genny's ever...

...Ah, right. So, I've noticed that any optional characters, like Kliff and Faye and Genny, never seem to show up in story scenes. That makes me curious: did the devs deliberately leave them out of the story so as to stay faithful to the fact that they were optional in Gaiden? If so, that's... I just can't sympathize with that. Using Kliff and Faye in Celica's route is a cute easter egg, but it's not worth kicking half the starting cast out of the plot.

Alright, let's do this pirate lair.

Barth: By the mighty parrot of Shanty Pete! What be that racket?

Am I seriously the only person on earth who heard that line and immediately wondered just what the fuck that parrot had to do to get called “mighty”? Did this absolute legend of a man teach his fucking parrot to fight?

But yeah, anyway, I just got a support between Mae and Boey.

Mae: Well, look who the wyvern dragged in!

...Cats exist in this setting. Do they not “drag in” prey animals in this setting? Then what the fuck were they domesticated for?

Anyway, Mae seems to be more shaken about putting her magic into practice taking lives than Boey is, which is, uh... news to me, given her sassy battle one-liners.

Alright, so, we managed to bait most of the enemies over to us, so our green friends should be okay until we can take the bulk of them out and join them.

I took out the archer turn two with Mae, so all that's left are the pirates, who should be easily dispatched.

HP, attack, skill and speed. Nice level up for Celica.

I've gotten multiple consecutive 4-stat levels, though skill and luck have generally been part of most of them so it's not as great as it sounds.

Boey just learned thunder, which should be handy, even though he can't hope to double with it.

Yep, crisis averted. Leon, the weakest link in the green trio by far, managed to hold out long enough for Genny to get to him. It helped that the enemy AI resorted to running away when wounded, and Leon did too.

Okay, now to finish off Barth.

Against all odds, when Barth retreats to his healing square, Leon, Kamui and Valbar all manage to hit him, at 30-50% odds each. That puts him in perfect range to be finished off with magic with ease.

Valbar: Oh ho! Look who the cat dragged in!

Oho! So that is a phrase in this setting! Then why the fuck is “look who the wyvern dragged in” a phrase too?

And then we get the three of them, and Kamui warns us about the necrodragons, reminding me I still don't quite have seraphim, but thankfully I think there's a golden apple here even if it turns out I have to do that right away if I'm doing this linearly.

Alright, I got a shitton of food, and in the next room...

Celica: My my. Look at all this pirate booty. ...Heh.

Wow. Okay, that was dumb but also funny and cute.

Yep, sure enough, golden apple, and then a steel sword, a second cog, Ram wine, a rusted shield, an iron sword, and... I think that's it.

So apparently the Rigelian sailors captured here aren't big fans of Rudolf, who seems to have neglected the safety of his people in the name of focusing on the war.

The massive, resource-wasting, own-child-traumatizing, tens of fathoms beyond psychotically pointless war.

We get another warning about necrodragons...

...Alright. So, we get another battle before fighting the necrodragons. Celica doesn't have to use that golden apple necessarily. Alright, but that'll have to wait until tomorrow. Almost out of time, gotta proofread.

So tomorrow, we'll face... I think our first encounter with a cantor.

Hoo boy.

Stay safe, everyone.

[Jotari]

 

19 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

The massive, resource-wasting, own-child-traumatizing, tens of fathoms beyond psychotically pointless war.

 

Wasn't there a famine in Rigel too that prompted them to invade? Well obvious Rudolf has his own designs for the ultimate destiny of man kind, but I'm pretty sure they say somewhere that Rigel asked for aid and Lima said no.

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

 

Wasn't there a famine in Rigel too that prompted them to invade? Well obvious Rudolf has his own designs for the ultimate destiny of man kind, but I'm pretty sure they say somewhere that Rigel asked for aid and Lima said no.

Yes, they are currently under a famine. Or at least, maybe it has been mitigated if thanks to the war they've pilfered some of the Zofians' still present bounty, since their own famine now means the continent as a whole is kinda screwed there at the moment.

Also...

37 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So apparently the Rigelian sailors captured here aren't big fans of Rudolf, who seems to have neglected the safety of his people in the name of focusing on the war.

The massive, resource-wasting, own-child-traumatizing, tens of fathoms beyond psychotically pointless war.

Only one complains about Rudolf. Not to mention:

Young Man: We’re sailors from Rigel, we is. We owes you our freedom! Zofian pirate scum ride the sea like they owns it, but what’s our emperor do? Not a damn thing! Guess his precious war’s all he cares about. Just what kinda man’s he become, anyway?

He's complaining that he, the Rigelian Emperor, isn't doing something about the Zofian pirates. You're basically in the Zofian territorial waters, on the opposite corner where the Rigelian army is marching from... on land. It's only the Duma Faithful who have any presence there. So to say he's not doing anything... maybe since it's not something he can do something about while he's still fighting on land. He's only gulty in the indirect sense since between his war and Lima and Desaix being who they are, they neglected protecting the Zofian seas that allowed for the pirates to rise.

In fact, looking at the world map, most of Rigel's coastline is composed of high cliffs. They must not have that much of a naval presence to begin with.

Something to note. Those NPC's weren't there in Gaiden. Or at all.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Ottservia]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Anyway, Mae seems to be more shaken about putting her magic into practice taking lives than Boey is, which is, uh... news to me, given her sassy battle one-liners.

Yeah the characterization in this game is pretty weak which is surprising considering how good the localization and dialogue is. There’s only so much 8-4 can do to fix inconsistent characterization.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly, I've been thinking that criticals should probably be heavily revamped. Not removed, just... revamped. One idea I had was that they were replaced with a less powerful effect that always activated if your skill beat, by a certain threshold, the target's luck (which I would also personally change to courage or willpower because that's a trait it actually makes sense to improve in with training). These would be things like extra damage, or status effects, etc. Possibly depending on the weapon. Skill really needs some kind of concrete “threshold” system to compete with doubling, something that makes individual points in the stat actually matter more. Something that makes a secret book have more of an impact on a unit than 3 or 4 points in accuracy and 1 point in crit. Because compared to something like speedwings, an energy drop, or a dracoshield... that's fucking garbage. As it stands, crit builds barely depend on a unit's stats at all. It's always about stacking class bonuses, or skills, or weapon stats. A unit's skill stat, or more specifically, individual differences between units' skill stats... that stuff is almost never relevant enough to trump skill or class access.

Personally, I think criticals need to be nerfed - in general, triple damage is overkill when it comes to player units critting enemy units, but if a unit gets 3HKOed by an enemy unit, and said enemy unit has crit on them, you have to worry about being cheesed out of a unit.

Also, I know this is rather early to ask this, but who will you get, Sonya or Deen?

[Alastor15243]

17 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, I know this is rather early to ask this, but who will you get, Sonya or Deen?

Sonya. Not because I'd rather have her, but because I absolutely hate fighting her.

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

He's complaining that he, the Rigelian Emperor, isn't doing something about the Zofian pirates. You're basically in the Zofian territorial waters, on the opposite corner where the Rigelian army is marching from... on land. It's only the Duma Faithful who have any presence there. So to say he's not doing anything... maybe since it's not something he can do something about while he's still fighting on land. He's only gulty in the indirect sense since between his war and Lima and Desaix being who they are, they neglected protecting the Zofian seas that allowed for the pirates to rise.

In fact, looking at the world map, most of Rigel's coastline is composed of high cliffs. They must not have that much of a naval presence to begin with.

To be absolutely fair, this is totally in line with IRL. You know, people who complain about their leaders not taking care of an issue that they have no power to do anything about XD

[Shadow Mir]

18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Sonya. Not because I'd rather have her, but because I absolutely hate fighting her.

Understandable. Looking at the enemy lineup for her fight, that does NOT look like a fun time AT ALL. Witches are enough of a pain in the ass in normal gameplay, never mind a map where they're about the only enemy type (and that's not even getting into Sonya herself).

Edited June 7, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

To be absolutely fair, this is totally in line with IRL. You know, people who complain about their leaders not taking care of an issue that they have no power to do anything about XD

In a way, it's quite fitting that of the three NPC's, it's the youngest of the bunch who is making that complain. Compared to the old man who instead says he still has faith in Rudolf, whatever his reasons for the war may be. Makes for an interesting contrast.

[Samz707]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Anyway, Mae seems to be more shaken about putting her magic into practice taking lives than Boey is, which is, uh... news to me, given her sassy battle one-liners.

 

At least to me, it seems like a "doesn't try to think of it in the heat of battle but she does think about when not currently fighting for her life.", though yeah the game doesn't quite dwell on the nature of killing. (And when 3H kinda tries to address it, the sassy battle quotes are still there for the first kill since they forgot to disable them on that map.) and yeah, even despite the support implying she hides it, she is a bit too joyful even for that, so I think the implication is a mix of A: she doesn't think about it during fighting and B: tries to hide it anyway. (even if it is admittingly a bit of a mess.)

Granted the nature of supports kinda means it has to happen in battle. (Even if the fact it takes up an action means you're somewhat expended to do it in relative quiet-time for those units.)

So I don't think it's quite out of character but it is mishandled.

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Sonya. Not because I'd rather have her, but because I absolutely hate fighting her.

They really go out of their way to make Deen the dud choice. Sonya is a character more involved with the plot, more of a pain to actually fight and you even get Deen's most useful feature whether you recruit him or not, that being his Brave Sword. He's not a terrible unit, probably better than Sonya because he can become a dread fighter and dread fighters are awesome, but it's not like you're exactly lacking in them on Celica's route, course you're not really lacking in mages either, but the ability to heal and ignore terrain is probably more useful than investing in another power house. Yep, Deen's really a chump. They didn't even let him keep his original design, or the ending where they specifically reference a southern continent.

[Venger_06]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Sonya. Not because I'd rather have her, but because I absolutely hate fighting her.

Is fighting the witches worse than fighting the mercenaries?

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Is fighting the witches worse than fighting the mercenaries?

I'm guessing it's the general hate towards Rewarp enemies.

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm guessing it's the general hate towards Rewarp enemies.

That and Sonya having excalibur as her default spell as an enemy.

[lenticular]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Genny reached level 4 and learned invoke. I'm not a huge fan of these abilities, as the summons don't gain exp, but they seem pretty fun to use.

I found them brokenly powerful almost to the point of completely trivialising the game. The enemy AI always seems to prefer targeting them over actual real units (presumably because they're trying to maximise damage and the summons have bad defenses?) so having a decent number of invokes up seemed to make everyone functionally immortal and let me pick off the enemies at will.

[Venger_06]

Well, at least Genny will have a support partner.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I found them brokenly powerful almost to the point of completely trivialising the game. The enemy AI always seems to prefer targeting them over actual real units (presumably because they're trying to maximise damage and the summons have bad defenses?) so having a decent number of invokes up seemed to make everyone functionally immortal and let me pick off the enemies at will.

And when you eventually get Falcon Knights and Dread Fighters, the summoned units can actually be very effective attackers, and not just meat shields. I barely ever use them though, because they're generally not as fun as I expect them to be. Seems cheap and just makes turns longer to have all these extra units hanging around and getting in the way of where I want to move my actual guys. Path of Radiance did it best by limiting it to twice a battle.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

17 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Well, at least Genny will have a support partner.

Forget the difficulty of their maps. This is real reason to chose Sonya. Give Genny her big sister senpai!

Edited June 7, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Is fighting the witches worse than fighting the mercenaries?

In a word: YESZ! Simply because resistance is shit for pretty much everyone. Not to mention as stated earlier, Sonya has Excalibur as her spell as an enemy. In a game where crit evade is half luck and just about everyone has terrible resistance. Deen would have to be waaaaay better than Sonya to justify dealing with that bullshit - and he ain't.

[Venger_06]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Forget the difficulty of their maps. This is real reason to chose Sonya. Give Genny her big sister senpai!

I prefer Jesse x Deen bromance.

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

In a word: YESZ! Simply because resistance is shit for pretty much everyone. Not to mention as stated earlier, Sonya has Excalibur as her spell as an enemy. In a game where crit evade is half luck and just about everyone has terrible resistance. Deen would have to be waaaaay better than Sonya to justify dealing with that bullshit - and he ain't.

Eh, not really a big problem for Palla and Catria, just keep Valbar away from the battle. Deen's map enemies are too fast for my liking.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Maof06

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Maof06 said:

Eh, not really a big problem for Palla and Catria, just keep Valbar away from the battle. Deen's map enemies are too fast for my liking.

Palla and Catria don't have THAT good resistance... anyway, while dealing with mercenaries and myrmidons may suck, it's still better than dealing with warping witches in a game where low resistance is the norm. Especially when the best thing about Deen doesn't even require recruiting him. Also, Valbar is the big reason why I find Deen's map ten billion percent easier, because he takes next to nothing from them.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Seazas]

Mae isn't shaken or extremely torn about zapping people. Her very support debunks that.

[Alastor15243]

7 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Mae isn't shaken or extremely torn about zapping people. Her very support debunks that.

What are you talking about?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Maof06 said:

I prefer Jesse x Deen bromance.

Eh, not really a big problem for Palla and Catria, just keep Valbar away from the battle. Deen's map enemies are too fast for my liking.

Ironically, Valbar is the reason I prefer playing Deen's map. He can block the Mercenaries' path, take little damage, and counter-attack them. Meanwhile, Witches can't be blocked, and your pegasus knights can only counter them with a Javelin.

[Seazas]

20 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

What are you talking about?

"Anyway, Mae seems to be more shaken about putting her magic into practice taking lives than Boey is, which is, uh... news to me, given her sassy battle one-liners"