Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Interdimensional Observer]

26 minutes ago, Armagon said:

....huh. Never really put that together but i can kinda see it now.

Personally, I came to see Tibarn as that guy who fell juuuuuuust short of getting into Pirates of the Caribbean.

55 minutes ago, Armagon said:

usually when Japan does that sort of thing, it's because they simply aren't aware.

The one Japan & Native Americans in Video Games controversy I'm aware of is Bravely Second. The Tomahawk class:

The international version of Bravely Second renamed the class to "Hawkeye",

and changed its attire to cowboy.

I take it the class was intended as Wild West hodgepodge. Its ability set is called "Shamanism", and its preferred weapon type is guns. The NPC who reps the class, Aimee Matchlock -shown in the above drawing- also had a questionable backstory that remained in the localization. IIRC, it was something like she lived in the wild until she stumbled on her darling's -the Patissier class rep's- pancakes, came off as rather Savage-ish. 

29 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Laguz have royalty but that's about it. No nobles or anything of the sort.

I believe it was entirely possible even within the Eastern Hemisphere to have a system with a monarch, but no nobility. I believe the Tang Dynasty (fell in 907 AD), was the last Chinese dynasty to grant aristocratic titles. After that, there was the royal family ofc, but the elite that served it was non-aristocratic. Even if the Chinese elite was still rather hereditary b/c bureaucratic life is good, bureaucrats want their sons to be bureaucrats, and bureaucrats have the resources to well prepare their sons for passing the civil service exams that let them enter into the bureaucracy. The Ottoman Empire lacked for aristocrats too I think, and I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the various Arab dynasties of the medieval Middle East had aristocrats either.

[Benice]

'Morning!

[ping]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The international version of Bravely Second renamed the class to "Hawkeye",

and changed its attire to cowboy.

Replacing the Native American caricature with a cowboy caricature is... I don't know, ironic? A reference that's hopefully unintended?

Also, those outfits are just the platotic ideal of WOMAN MUST DRESS SEXILY

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The NPC who reps the class, Aimee Matchlock -shown in the above drawing- also had a questionable backstory that remained in the localization. IIRC, it was something like she lived in the wild until she stumbled on her darling's -the Patissier class rep's- pancakes, came off as rather Savage-ish. 

So they have a character dressed like Native Americans but acts more like Tarzan? At least that's what I'm getting at when you said that she lived in the wild.

[Codename Shrimp]

...Not what i would've put my money on

9 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

I have respect for this game not trying to make Elincia Ike's love interest

 

Despite that, one of the better chemistries in the series.

I won't say anything else because the forum will explode then.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Imperator Squilla

[Codename Shrimp]

Japan trying to waifu their way into the Ro16

[Acacia Sgt]

I once said Tellius borrows from Jugdral the most, but come to think of it, the Ike and Elincia dynamic is basically an upgrade / more-fleshed-out-version to Marth and Nyna, in a way.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[GuardianSing]

8 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

If you won't.......

Well I'm glad someone did.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

She gets much better as the games progress, don't worry.

That's right I am capable of playing Devil's advocate for this piece of shit game

Local FE fan discovers how to have a nuanced opinion.

 

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It wouldn't be annoying, because at least it's the decent one from Awakening.

In other words

Yes, good.

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Please this is a Fire Emblem game, we are going to learn about how the upper class live instead.

That's another thing. FE spends a lot of energy on talking about the affairs of higher class society with more or less a hand wave to the working class, even if the game in question is more about class. We'll see tiny villages with a romanticized idea of peasantry life, and get shown large cities yet aren't shown the folks that keep them moving outside of a few unimportant servants.

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

But the Laguz are supposed to be the Noble Savages, too naively pure to have invented class distinction despite having kings

Yikes...

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Oh Tibarn you are so cool, but Edelguardiansing is right, you are a bit of a Native American caricature.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

?

I mean you aren't entirely wrong there but it seems like an odd thing to say when you've already played several FE games with princesses that do things.

Exceptions don't break stereotypes, and the amount of Princesses that do things at the time PoR was original released was dwarfed by the many princesses in Nintendo games that didn't do things.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Laguz have royalty but that's about it. No nobles or anything of the sort.

Probably taken inspiration from the mostly-debunked "alpha" of the pack.

Ah, so it's a flat out dictatorship.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'll give IntSys the benefit of the doubt, usually when Japan does that sort of thing, it's because they simply aren't aware.

Hollywood usually ain't aware either.

But I suppose they deserve more shit for it since they are based in the land of the culture that they are portraying and really have no excuse while all IS has is those Hollywood movies.

But it's not like much Japan media acknowledges Japan's own indigenous groups all that often, I mean the closest I can think of is Kanna from Dragon maid which is even more offensive than the shit Hollywood usually pulls off.

Like an attempt was definitely made here

Meanwhile...

What the fuck

I can forgive IS for doing something like Tiburn since as you say, they probably just didn't know and it's not like his native influences are all that prominent. Japanese media as a whole though? Yeah they got shit to work on.

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Ike was certainly in the right to call back... but was that the right action to do at that very moment? They're lucky Sanaki was willing to let it slide (and Ike has Protagonist Powers (TM) on his side). Nasir was right to point up he could've easily ruined their chance to get Begnion's help just for a brief moment of righteous lecture, no matter how correct it was. Ike is still too impulsive and hotheaded there to know there is a time and place for things.

This is the kind of recklessness I like to see. Often when FE portrays a character being reckless they usually just mean in the sense that they rush into battle without thinking much. Here Ike's passion on the subject nearly gets him killed which while a flaw is an admirable one.

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes, how dare they raise their weapons to protect their lands, their people, or to liberate them.

Sorry Ike and Elincia, might as well just settle down in Begnion and not liberate Crimea then.

"The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house"

Fighting to liberate your people from the systematic issues of the world is one thing, killing a bunch of people with revenge in mind rather than liberation? That's just Neo-Colonialism

 

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The one Japan & Native Americans in Video Games controversy I'm aware of is Bravely Second. The Tomahawk class:

🤢

Terrible outfit aside, the fact that she's eating syrup is a big fucking yikes from me, chief. Poundmaker didn't die for this.

1 hour ago, ping said:

Replacing the Native American caricature with a cowboy caricature is... I don't know, ironic? A reference that's hopefully unintended?

Jesus Christ, just hire some native arists, maker her look like an actual tribe member instead of some twisted Halloween costume.

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

But it's not like much Japan media acknowledges Japan's own indigenous groups all that often, I mean the closest I can think of is Kanna from Dragon maid which is even more offensive than the shit Hollywood usually pulls off.

 

https://mangadex.org/title/8847f905-550d-4fe6-bcda-ac2b896789c7/golden-kamuy

You're welcome

[GuardianSing]

9 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

https://mangadex.org/title/8847f905-550d-4fe6-bcda-ac2b896789c7/golden-kamuy

You're welcome

I knew there had to be some manga out there for it.

What's that Miyazaki quote? "Anime was a mistake, but some manga are pretty good"

[Acacia Sgt]

 

1 minute ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Meanwhile...

What the fuck

Wait, are you saying she is meant to like, represent the Ainu or some other group in her source material?

1 minute ago, Edelguardiansing said:

This is the kind of recklessness I like to see. Often when FE portrays a character being reckless they usually just mean in the sense that they rush into battle without thinking much. Here Ike's passion on the subject nearly gets him killed which while a flaw is an admirable one.

Perhaps, but it also means he's basically avoiding the consequences of his actions, save for the small lecture afterwards. Which can dangerously set precedent that he can act as reckless as he wishes because things will always work out fine in the end. Case in point, Sanaki herself bailed him out and didn't rule out the proposal of helping Elincia.

Which goes back to the fact he was made leader before actually earning it. By the time of reaching Begnion he has certainly grown into the role and is proving himself, but clearly he still has much left to go, if he can still commit such a mistake. At least if he does take Nasir's lesson to heart then the whole thing still had merit, that he is made aware he may not be as lucky next time.

Still... now I wonder. Imagine if Sanaki had in fact not spared Ike... but it serves as a catalyst for Elincia to become more proactive. Maybe still has to prove herself to Sanaki, but graduates from Nyna to Gaiden!Celica in the process.

1 minute ago, Edelguardiansing said:

"The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house"

Fighting to liberate your people from the systematic issues of the world is one thing, killing a bunch of people with revenge in mind rather than liberation? That's just Neo-Colonialism

That's true. And that distinction is going to be important in short order in the game...

1 minute ago, Edelguardiansing said:

🤢

Terrible outfit aside, the fact that she's eating syrup is a big fucking yikes from me, chief. Poundmaker didn't die for this.

Uh, mind explaining that one, please.

 

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What's that Miyazaki quote? "Anime was a mistake, but some manga are pretty good"

Miyazaki is wrong

Because anime is good 😛

No anime, no Fire Emblem

Can you imagine a world without Fire Emblem?

Without Kaga?

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

🤢

Terrible outfit aside, the fact that she's eating syrup is a big fucking yikes from me, chief. Poundmaker didn't die for this.

?

Is it because she's """""dressed"""" like she's from the plains, yet maple syrup is more a northeast thing? Or are you just not a fan of syrup?

 

2 hours ago, ping said:

Replacing the Native American caricature with a cowboy caricature is... I don't know, ironic? A reference that's hopefully unintended?

I don’t think it is Manifestation of anything malicious within the localizers. Bravely Default ran through most of the “typical” JRPG classes, so Bravely Second’s new ones had to be a bit more exotic I suppose. Like this one.:

I’m not sure what would have been a better redesign than a cowboy, but I agree with the localizers that sexy Amerindian had to go.

2 hours ago, ping said:

Also, those outfits are just the platotic ideal of WOMAN MUST DRESS SEXILY

It’s not the same kind of sexy! Edea has tomboy energy, a slightly sexy “cute” that relies on her toughness. Magnolia exudes a more fragile beauty of greater outright sexiness. Not like it matters to me. Tiz has looks like a bad boy yet has a mild and sweet personality, so he can corral me any day of the week.🥰 (Yew meanwhile looks a little boy whose mother dressed him for picture day, and comes as a flavorless generic portrayal of almost all class costumes.)

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

So they have a character dressed like Native Americans but acts more like Tarzan? At least that's what I'm getting at when you said that she lived in the wild.

I’m not going to pop in my copy of the game and go looking for the time Aimee explained her backstory. But IIRC she was alone in the wild before pancakes introduced her to civilization. This said, I wouldn’t call Aimee “Female Tarzan”, the localization gave her a stereotypical New York City accent yet otherwise she speaks normally.

If you’re looking for a "Tarzania", that’d be Artemia from the first Bravely game, NPC representative of the Ranger class.:

She speaks in short sentences in the third person, as is common in the stereotypical wildling.

[Codename Shrimp]

The anthems

and then

The rolling ball

[GuardianSing]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Wait, are you saying she is meant to like, represent the Ainu or some other group in her source material?

Kanna Kamui is apparently supposed to be based off of the Kamuy spirits of Ainu mythology.

But pretty much in name only.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Uh, mind explaining that one, please.

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

?

Is it because she's """""dressed"""" like she's from the plains, yet maple syrup is more a northeast thing? Or are you just not a fan of syrup?

It was (mostly) a joke about how syrup is quite famously a Canadian export. It was actually the natives that taught the settlers how to make syrup which made it sting all the more when the natives were removed from their land so settlers could make more syrup and sell it.

I don't know why, but this image gives huge Canadian syrup company logo vibes.

If I was any good at photoshop I'd do something like that.

21 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

No anime, no Fire Emblem

Can you imagine a world without Fire Emblem?

Less whiny Smash fans? Yes please!

 

[Punished Dayni]

4 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Well I'm glad someone did.

It was that or this.

7 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

Japan trying to waifu their way into the Ro16

Japan: So what do I get?

Qatar: Believe it or not, jail.

7 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

But it's not like much Japan media acknowledges Japan's own indigenous groups all that often, I mean the closest I can think of is Kanna from Dragon maid which is even more offensive than the shit Hollywood usually pulls off.

Meanwhile...

What the fuck

As a person who has never seen the thing you're on about, I have no idea what's going on.

13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This said, I wouldn’t call Aimee “Female Tarzan”, the localization gave her a stereotypical New York City accent yet otherwise she speaks normally.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Kanna Kamui is apparently supposed to be based off of the Kamuy spirits of Ainu mythology.

But pretty much in name only.

Ah, now I remember. Yeah, that has been brought up in Corrin talks, naturally.

6 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Can't see the image.

[Codename Shrimp]

LET'S GOOOOO

[Codename Shrimp]

Now we need 7 more to ensure an advance even japan does it

[GuardianSing]

7 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

As a person who has never seen the thing you're on about, I have no idea what's going on.

To be fair I've never sat down and watched it either, but from clips I've seen it doesn't seem all too flattering.

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Can't see the image.

It's just the previous image of the ""Indian"" girl.

If you couldn't see that then well here it is hopefully.

[Codename Shrimp]

IT'S HAPPENING

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

It's just the previous image of the ""Indian"" girl.

If you couldn't see that then well here it is hopefully.

Ah, that one. Okay.

[ping]

44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It’s not the same kind of sexy! Edea has tomboy energy, a slightly sexy “cute” that relies on her toughness. Magnolia exudes a more fragile beauty of greater outright sexiness. Not like it matters to me. Tiz has looks like a bad boy yet has a mild and sweet personality, so he can corral me any day of the week.🥰 (Yew meanwhile looks a little boy whose mother dressed him for picture day, and comes as a flavorless generic portrayal of almost all class costumes.)

Umm.... *BONK*?

Just memeing, of couse, keep hornyposting at your leasure.

I agree that there's very likely no malicious intend by the localisation team. It's just an unfortunate choice to replace the Native American stereotype by a stereotype of what displaced the real world Native Americans. Only, as Quetzal said, it's certainly possible (and desirable) to give cultures a more respectful representation than "cliché plus tiddies", so it's maybe a bit disappointing that they instead just axed the reference.

25 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Fun fact: There's some old German "youth detective" book series named TKKG (the initials of the four main characters) where the main main character was (in-universe) nicknamed "Tarzan" because he's tan and athletic. However, I believe this got the author into some licensing troubles, so he had to choose between coughing up some fees or changing the name. He went for the latter and - totally not salty, nosiree - went for the following in-universe explanation: Still-Tarzan went to the cinema and watched a Tarzan movie and though that it was stupid and bad and Tarzan the character was stupid and bad and being nicknamed after him was an insult. Then he coveniently learns that his second given name is "Timotheus" (Always had been! Not something the author came up on the fly to make sure the branding TKKG stays intact!) and decides to go with "Tim" instead because he doesn't particularly like his first name Peter.

There is no point to the story, I was just reminded by the talk about Tarzan derivatives and thought it was funny.

12 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

IT'S HAPPENING

Disappointing. I was (and still am, slightly) hoping for the CRC+JPN triumph.

Edited December 1, 2022 by ping

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, ping said:

Disappointing. I was (and still am, slightly) hoping for the CRC+JPN triumph.

Still more than 65 minutes to go, so....

[ping]

1 minute ago, Imperator Squilla said:

Still more than 65 minutes to go, so....

True, and we know that at least the German team is quite proficient at snatching defeat from the maws of victory.