Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Venger_06]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Obviously this is just Types themselves and not any potential moves they can learn. But objectively speaking, Grass Starters get super oppressed, followed by Fire Starters and then there's Water Starters, which over the course of the series history, has had it overall pretty good.

That's because water is the best type alongside steel and fairy.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Green06 said:

Pokespe made me fall in love with Hoenn, a region (and games) that I never cared about

Do you feel the Olde PokeMangas are forgotten and or underrated? I've never read them, but from what little I've heard of them, they sound possibly interesting.

 

6 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Jeez I can relate to that last sentence. It's happened often enough in any story structuring.

The best I've ever "done" was "Pokemon: Kanto and Johto Sagas". Which would've been an RTS maybe if I changed it to TBS I'd be able to go Kaga and make it happen it in old age via SRPG Maker that begins as the "typical badge journeys", but around Vermillion and Cianwood become much more "save the world" focused. I was able to write full plot outlines of this, which was fairly easy b/c I was adapting existing regions and characters some plotlines.

The original lengthy document is lost I believe, buuuuuuuuuut (REALLY LONG!)...

Spoiler

The leads wouldn't have been player inserts, I got rid of them altogether sacred bleu!. Instead, it would've been Green/Blue as your eager shounen protagonist for Kanto Saga, and for Johto Saga, Silver.

• Their first companions would've been...
  • Daisy Oak for Green/Blue. B/c Pewter City is a little too far away for my liking and she'd be given a Clefairy b/c the First Pokemon Manga I'm told picked a (maybe bonkable) Clefairy as the First Lead In A Story Pokemon. And she would also provide a Fairy-perfect affinity trainer, the gameplay needed one.
    • She more or less tags along solely b/c her little bro is overeager and reckless and all that stuff.
  • Faulkner for Silver. B/c both stories would turn into "collect the gym leaders" as fellow trainers usable in battles. Faulkner was given a longstanding friendship with Silver, which began something like after Faulkner's father died, Silver came by to the Gym, saw its new "leader" rather morose and told him to suck it up. Rude, and it's not like Silver doesn't have daddy issues, but it got Faulkner to move on, he was thankful for that.
    • Faulkner's reasoning for leaving his gym temporarily is indeed to save the world -from Silver. Because I decided that he gets to the main hero who is also a total donkey (which makes this pure fanfiction Nintendo would never approve)! Peak "Silver is a jerk" would be reached relatively early, around Goldenrod b/c Silver does not get along with Whitney, after this it declines and Faulkner would have to do less damage control.

After this, it would be hitting up gym after gym, seeing all the usual sites en route at some point. And also stopping the villain teams.:

• Team Rocket was split in two:
  • Giovanni's Rocket in Kanto. Lead by the former Gym Leader of Viridian (Agatha got the job, as in the anime at some point IIRC, allowing Karen to show up and take her E4 place.)
    • Borrowing from what I remember reading of PokeManga, Lt. Surge, Sabrina, Koga, and Blaine were all made Team Rocket members.
      • Surge got his first taste of discipline in TR, later left b/c his morality got in the way, and he hid his real past b/c he is embarrassed by it.
      • Sabrina was Giovanni's right hand woman.
      • Koga went missing one day, leaving his daughter in charge of the gym. It later turns out he joined TR, but he's actually a good guy and later reveals his true heroic colors.
      • Blaine developed his gambling streak after being the only survivor of When Mewtwo Went Berserk. He fought with Rocket until the Mewtwo Incident was resolved, oversaw the construction on all the seals (to keep Mewtwo in and everyone else out) on Cerulean Cave and Mewtwo's cryostasis. He then totally destroyed all data from the Mewtwo Experiment and retired to Cinnabar.
  • Giovanni's Rocket wants Mewtwo and Mew.
    • Mewtwo would be nice for Mewtwo itself, but the real goal would be to mass-produce Mewtwos, an unstoppable force. If Mewtwo later defied Team Rocket, then that wouldn't be a problem, as long as they had a sample of their DNA.
      • Not sure if I made a big deal of the Berserk Gene, but surely this "special strand of genetic code only found in Mewtwo" would be amped up in the clones.
    • Mew is that DNA font that is it, need I say any more?
  • Johto got Apollo's Rocket.
    • Instead of proclaiming "Come back Giovanni!" during the Radio Tower Takeover, they'd be shouting "We're the Rocket Renegades! Your days are numbered Giovanni!".
    • Pryce, borrowing from the PokeManga where he was a villain, would be Rocket-related. My version made him the former boss of Team Rocket, whose crowning glory was to be the Mewtwo Project. Its catastrophic end saw him having to issue orders to get Mewtwo under control and then sealed, during which Giovanni schemed. Once the crisis was done, Pryce realized a coup was in the works, that he had no real power left, and fled to distant Johto.
    • Apollo became Pryce's son, having been told by his father of his glory days at Rocket, Apollo, against his father's insincere warnings, built the Johto branch up from almost nothing. All for the sake of his father. Who at the Radio Tower betrays the heroes and takes the leadership of the Rocket Renegades.
    • Goes big with the legendaries, since Apollo is a bit brash and overly ambitious- first the three beasts of Johto, then their master.
• As if that was not enough evil, foreign interlopers are showing up in Kanto and Johto.
  • First is the "Cipher Expansionary Force". Greevil, his sons, Lovrina for a scientist & female, and Nascour.
    • Evice has Orre under his thumb, which he is using as a power base to eventually overthrow Greevil.
    • Greevil's response? Go abroad and convert Lugia and its avian trio to Shadow status, Evice won't stand a chance. They use Citadark as their primary base, though they expand to the Sevii Islands as well.
      • Zapdos is the very first legendary in the Sagas to get captured. After Vermillion's gym, the "Power Plant Panic" happens. Power across Kanto goes out, the source being at the Power Plant, where, IIRC, the few Kanto infiltrators of the Rocket Renegades turned it off. I forget why.
      • Near the Power Plant is the Old Plant, which was abandoned when energy tech advanced and a new one was built nearby. It was to be demolished, but nobody noticed Pokemon had moved in, and Zapdos thundered out a warning to humans not to do that. To keep people out of the rusting facility, barriers and fences and whatnot were built, but many of them depended on the new plant for power. Cipher knew Zapdos was here, and really lucked out when the outage happened. Nascour leads the group here who seize Zapdos, and because he has a liking for dramatic vanity, namedrops his organization.
      • Lance and Sabrina also show up as temporary reinforcements for the Green-Daisy-Brock-Misty-Surge hero group before heading into the Old Plant, the outage is a big enough crisis for this, and those who "fled" (actually invaded) into the Old Plant must be dealt with.
    • Other than an encounter at the Whirl Islands (but not the depths of the islands, Cipher was trying to secure the islands in advance and were engaging in piracy, but it was a foolish mistake), The Cipher Expansionary Force is primarily an enemy of Kanto Saga.
  • Snagem in this world joined Cipher originally, thinking it a promising advance in their criminal career, then they betrayed when they felt Cipher's puppet strings too tight. Snagem lost their chance at freedom, and fled Orre for their own survival -barring the one white-haired traitor.
    • Snagem is the weakest of the villains for sure. IIRC, they do end up working with Apollo, for a time.
    • They also enter an alliance with Will, the evil E4 member. He never explains why he wants power, he likes being a little enigmatic, but he does.
    • Together with Will, they pursue Celebi. Kinda the weakest legendary, and it's only one, but time travel is strong. For Snagem, it'd be a chance to start over after a disastrous downfall.
    • Will and Gonzap are primarily found in Johto Saga. I might have tossed one appearance of Snagem in Dark Cave, but that was it.

Eventually, I haven't remembered everything...

• In Johto...
  • Apollo and Pryce captures Raikou south of Blackthorn City and rips the "Thunder Masque" off its face, which comes long after Suicune had its "Crystal Emblem" stolen north of Cianwood. Thus greatly weakening the beasts, not so legendary anymore. Anyone with can unleash the power from these objects.
  • With regards to the Champion and Elite Four...
    • Champion Lance was in Blackthorn trying to establish a "Reborn" Pokemon League in honor of the divine mission heard from Raikou or Entei (I forget which) at the Lake of Rage. Agatha might've been in Blackthorn too but I know she needs to end up in Kanto somehow.
    • Bruno IIRC was sent to Kanto by Karen much earlier, for she could tell something was coming.
    • Karen, IIRC, fled Indigo Plateau sometime after the Radio Tower Takeover b/c she disagreed with Lance's radical zealous stance.
    • Lorelei had been MIA for a while b/c captured by Cipher when investigating mysterious activities in the Sevii Islands, the Kanto heroes rescued her, but she remained in Sevii dealing with the Cipher presence there.
    • ...This left Will alone, at Indigo Plateau. While the Johto heroes were fighting Lance after he tried arresting them on their attempted return to Blackthorn (which is when Karen joins as a fugitive), and then the attack of the Renegades to get Raikou who was with Lance (he abandons him after losing in the Dragon's Den, humans are pathetic and prone to arguing with themselves he decides).
      • Thus, Will silently seizes power for himself. The Johto heroes have to go and stop him. Karen had a hunch, but Lance wouldn't listen, and she didn't have enough clout on her own.
      • After humiliatingly defeating the very emotional Lance in the champion's room and ripping off his cape, Will loses in turn to the heroes, but successfully flees.
• In Kanto...
  • Koga shows himself a hero atop the Silph Co. building. Mewtwo, I forget why exactly, decides to break alliance with Giovanni. Mew protects Mewtwo or the heroes or something and ends up being captured by Team Rocket. Mewtwo doesn't join the heroes just yet, choosing to rest up and heal first for some reason IIRC.
  • Cipher then does the audacious and throws everything it has at Victory Road. It has confirmed Moltres has fled there after the Kanto heroes stopped them in Sevii. Since the timing coincides with Will's silent coup, the Pokemon League resistance is weak, and the final legendary bird is captured at last.
• Thus, the Kanto heroes are in Victory Road, the Johto heroes are inside the Pokemon League HQ. As one walks out the doors, the other is walking towards them. At last, they meet. Things become "Kanto-Johto Sagas Unite!".
• Although, things aren't very united. As the heroes split almost as soon they meet, and only briefly recombine between these events...
  1. The "Johto Split"
     1. Whirl Islands-
        1. Cipher knows Lugia won't hide with its servants captured. Time to head into the depths of these islands and take the prize.
        2. The emotionally-shattered Lance runs off on his own (he is such a moody hassle sometimes) to stop them.
        3. Green, Bruno, Karen, Agatha, and Clair all must go this way. I intended for the player to pick the rest of their crew, not sure now if that was the best idea.
        4. Lugia sides with Lance (manga!), they both lose to the heroes, Cipher shows up and gets what they want.
     2. Sacred Tower-
        1. Reports indicate that the Rocket Renegades have attacked Sacred Tower to bait out Ho-Oh, even though Entei remains on the loose.
        2. Silver, Faulkner, Morty, Chuck, and Jasmine (I wanted to make everyone mandatory at a split at least once, even if they needn't be) go here.
        3. Entei, who had fled to the far north after Mt. Mortar IIRC so as to avoid capture, cannot resist defending its master's roost. Eugene brings Suicune and Raikou to the Tower too, though powerless, they want to be here for their master. The Fire Crest is thus taken and Ho-Oh descends on the rooftop.
        4. Pryce blasts Ho-Oh into submission with the three relics stolen from its servants, but ha! Ho-Oh is stronger than that, and sends Pryce nearly off the roof. Apollo doesn't help his father, for being given the cold shoulder and having lost to the heroes yet again right before the blasting at Ho-Oh, he snaps, he tries attacking Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh decides to burn the Sacred Tower to the ground in anger, but the beasts disagree with their master's judgement on humanity, they create a warp sigil that saves the heroes, and Pryce selfishly cowardly sneaks into it too. Silver gives a good angry shout at Pryce after this, and he leaves them for now, not intending to get in their way, they let him go as they have bigger concerns.
  2. The "Kanto Split"
     1. "Celadon Forest"- A place I invented near Celadon City, I didn't want to use Ilex Forest and I wanted a double-Kanto split.
        1. The heroes reunite after Whirl & Sacred and learn of potential criminal activity in the depths of Ilex. When they get there, Mewtwo. Celebi being another cute 100 BST special edition legendary like Mew, I decided that when Will & Snagem struck Ilex to find Celebi, Mewtwo heard its cry like that of Mew and decided to investigate. Snagem and Cipher have fled to pursue Celebi, who fled to Celadon Forest.
        2. Green, Daisy, Bugsy, Whitney, Erika, and Misty go this way.
        3. Celebi is caught, and time travel is almost attempted. Almost, because Lance and Lorelei show up. She helped him get himself back together.
     2. Team Rocket HQ in the Pewter Mountain Range
        1. IIRC, as the heroes with Mewtwo attempted to head to Kanto for Celebi, Team Rocket had finished the Mewtwo clones and begins unleashing waves of them to subdue Kanto and Johto. Though easily repelled from distant Johto, Kanto isn't as lucky, even if they manage to defeat Sabrina in the field. Kanto's forces will run out of steam in time. Time for the final battle with Giovanni!
        2. Green wants to be on this team, which for the player makes sense b/c he is the lead of Kanto Saga. But Silver puts a halt to this, though he doesn't explain why. Time for the first time in the entire Saga for Silver to finally meet the man he loathes with a passion. Surge, Koga, Janine, Blaine, and Brock all go this way too. Mewtwo comes along.
        3. Sabrina was shaken ever since Mew protected the others. She betrays to the heroes during the operation here.
        4. Giovanni in his boss battle room reveals Mew in a machine and after the heroes refuse to surrender, injects Mew with a lethal serum. He loses, he tries demanding more of the clones, they go haywire and start destroying everything. The clones are all destroyed, but the base is totaled, the heroes barely escape with Silver saving his dad. Pryce shows up with amazing timing, sprinkling freshly-made Sacred Ashes from the former Sacred Tower upon Mew, which work b/c the serum was a slow death. Giovanni and Pryce, the two former Team Rocket leaders, join.
  3. The Final Split
     1. Citadark Island
        1. The location of Cipher's HQ has been discovered. Their plans for Lugia and its servants must be stopped.
        2. Green, Lorelei, Lance, Will.
        3. The Shadow-fied Bird Trio and Greevil and his sons are defeated before the "Anti-Purification Chamber" is completes its job. Eldes then betrays, and Greevil, disappointed in his treasonous son, does the unthinkable having no other choice and converts himself into Shadow energies, putting the finishing touch on Shadow Lugia. Who then flies out, taking the remaining Shadow Pokemon with it. 
        4. Meanwhile, Evice and others are in Realgam making an unexpected last stand against those powerless fools who have somehow driven back Cipher's unchallenged reign. Nascour is a butt-smoocher, so since the Greevil ship is sinking, he fled to Orre after earlier losing in Citadark.
     2. Mt. Silver
        1. This is where it has been discovered Ho-Oh is. It went strangely silent and left humanity alone after the Sacred Tower. Trainers and their Pokemon sent to investigate have all gone MIA.
        2. Silver, Giovanni, Pryce, Sabrina.
        3. It turns out the Rocket Renegades atop the Sacred Tower weren't killed. They, their Pokemon, the investigators, and the Legendary Beasts have all been brainwashed. Ho-Oh intends to mentally force harmony between Pokemon and humanity.
        4. Ho-Oh is defeated, the Legendary Beasts are freed and restored to full power. Apollo regains a slight measure of freedom, but squanders it by attempting to touch Ho-Oh, his ambition is still enduring in him. Ho-Oh is so incensed by this that it absorbs and purifies Apollo's soul to get rid of it. Ho-Oh becomes "Indignant Ho-Oh", the divine opposite of unholy Shadow Lugia.
• Shadow Lugia and Indignant Ho-Oh are drawn to each other, and the calculated trajectory has them meet at Tohjo Falls, the site of the final battle of the Sagas.
  1. The clash of the two trio masters has the potential go on for years and destroy Kanto and Johto in the process, this cannot be allowed to happen. 
  2. The heroes of Kanto and Johto break into three teams at the Falls: Green to the east, Silver to the west, and Lance as the champion of the two regions to the north. 
     1. Green Team must subdue Shadow Lugia whose Type has changed to pure Shadow. 
        1. Celebi and the birds are here to help purify Shadow Lugia.
     2. Silver Team must subdue Indignant Ho-Oh whose Type has change to pure Indignant.
        1. Mew and the beasts are here to help "calm" Indignant Ho-Oh.
     3. Lance Team can help either team being in the middle (maybe "a keep the legendaries apart, or else you take big damage" mechanic would be a good idea).
        1. Mewtwo is strong enough to endure being attack by two trio masters at once.
     4. The idea of the battle is that once Lugia and Ho-Oh lose a third of their HP, you have a limited time to purify/calm them which requires some setup of the allied legendaries. The final bosses won't take anymore damage until you do, and will regenerate health if you don't do it in time. You repeat a second time, and then a third and last, this time Mewtwo has to get involved in the setup.

Things would end in peace at last. Everyone can breathe a sigh of relief and go back to their old lives. I don't remember what exactly befalls the more criminal characters, but I know I had Lance accepting challenges from Green and Silver as the final note. Giovanni presumably leaves back for the shadows before he can be formally arrested now that the truce is over, Pryce, Koga, Sabrina, and Will have to do time for their crimes however. Sabrina has the Karate Master to fill in, Janine has already taken over Fuchsia, Agatha returns to the E4 to fill in Will's spot. This leaves Mahogany and Viridian Gyms leaderless however, and that Silver and Green would really like those jobs.

...Sure I was merely putting my own twist on existing stuff with a bit of novelty thrown in, but something something about finishing something you yourself "made", regardless of how crappy or worthless it is.😅

As if all of the above wasn't waaaaaaay too much story for Pokemon, I had less-detailed plans for a concurrent "Orre Saga".

 

5 hours ago, Imperator Squilla said:

Is it Koshiro? Feels kinda like him xD

Yep, the underlying track is his, he composed every EO game (to excellent results if you ask me). This bonus CD rendition was done by someone else though.

 

45 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

This however is the worst way to solve that issue.

Fun fact I heard- Americans pronounce "herb" without the "h", British people keep the h. Americans are actually more historically accurate here, the British upper classes in the ~Victorian era saw the lower classes dropping "h"s from words and thought it improper. So, they made sure to pronounce every h there was -not realizing it wasn't contemporary commoners who dropped the herb h, that had already been dropped from pronunciation beforehand.

45 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Bat dung is a great swear.

And also useful for gunpowder! Guano is a fine source of nitrates/saltpeter for the explosive stuff. I think there might have been a short war in South America literally over a giant pile of bird droppings.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Venger_06]

LMAO

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Do you feel the Olde PokeMangas are forgotten and or underrated? I've never read them, but from what little I've heard of them, they sound possibly interesting.

They are definitely a step up from the games story-wise, but they're still works aimed at children. The best ones are the Ruby & Sapphire chapter and the Black & White chapter.

[GuardianSing]

16 minutes ago, Armagon said:

One of these is not like the others because Severa/Selena is absolutely not what you just described.

Hey, I know full well how much nuance Severa has as a character, she's great in that sense, but on a surface level she still fits the archetype in my eyes. In fact she was one of the first characters that came to mind when thinking of the "lecturing other female characters" criteria because that's what her support with Kjelle is about

...Ironically that support is very gay but that's besides the point.

I think Severa is the most well written among the rest of the archetype because it's talked about how the reason she's like that is because she's deeply insecure, which is how that attitude manifests itself in real life too.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Fun fact I heard- Americans pronounce "herb" without the "h", British people keep the h. Americans are actually more historically accurate here, the British upper classes in the ~Victorian era saw the lower classes dropping "h"s from words and thought it improper. So, they made sure to pronounce every h there was -not realizing it wasn't contemporary commoners who dropped the herb h, that had already been dropped from pronunciation beforehand.

It's like the hwen hwere and hwat situation all over again.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

39 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Well it's either that or we all die under a brutal Daein regime so we can worry about whether or not the Princess gets power over her land later.

I mean, the former is kinda the norm anyway. If you recall from Ena and Kasatai's conversation, Daein basically didn't asked Begnion for permission to invade Crimea, as both countries are Begnion's tributaries.

39 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What's your least favorite FE archetype? Mine is the aggressively snobby straight girl with a hyper-fixation on what their male lead society deems "womanly" and has frequent lectures with the other female members of the team on how to be more "womanly" They annoy just as much in FE as they do in real life.

The part of trying to "convert" others rings true, but demeaning them for otherwise deciding to be like that is part of the problem to begin with. Instead of just accepting people are or do things different, we start categorizing them as inferior/superior or acceptable/unacceptable.

39 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

And yeah, I can totally believe why the Daeinians would believe in the King for giving opportunities to individuals as has happened in real life, but still it's a shame that no one or a least a vocal minority that no one heard suggested that the King was still at fault for allowing the opportunity of individuals to rise up while the masses are left behind to rot in their class segregated society.

I mean, probably since in their eyes, not rising up is interpreted as being their fault for not working as hard as those that did. Unless it's shown Ashnard made exceptions and the like, then the people won't direct their ire towards him.

39 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

I knew he was one of those "Matter of perspective" Nazi's on twitter.

Still, some things remain valid regardless of his true role. Like the Sanaki scene.

39 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

 

 

And that's the door of the fridge being opened.

12 minutes ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Hey, I know full well how much nuance Severa has as a character, she's great in that sense, but on a surface level she still fits the archetype in my eyes. In fact she was one of the first characters that came to mind when thinking of the "lecturing other female characters" criteria because that's what her support with Kjelle is about

...Ironically that support is very gay but that's besides the point.

I think Severa is the most well written among the rest of the archetype because it's talked about how the reason she's like that is because she's deeply insecure, which is how that attitude manifests itself in real life too.

To be fair, Kjelle is like, borderline misandrist, so she ain't exactly the victim there. I think even her mother gets on her case over that, despite Sully herself being tomboyish too.

[Acacia Sgt]

 

[GuardianSing]

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The part of trying to "convert" others rings true, but demeaning them for otherwise deciding to be like that is part of the problem to begin with. Instead of just accepting people are or do things different, we start categorizing them as inferior/superior or acceptable/unacceptable.

Deciding to be what? Straight, snobby, feeling the need to live up to societal standards based on your gender? You don't really decide to be any of those, especially the straight part, and the last two are specifically negative traits that come from a sense of insecurity that plagues all of us, but insecurity doesn't excuse a person from being an asshole which is what I'm critiquing these characters for.

And yeah, the game portrays their attitude as bizarre and over the top, but other than Severa, they don't often explore why they are like that other than waving it off as them being coddled as a child.

In our real world, it's incredibly common for young women to absorb a boatload of insecurity from the beauty standards forced upon them, this is true for men as well but to a much lesser extent, and through this upbringing they feel in their young teenage years that they have to be perfect and beautiful looking and lady-like all of the time, and through this insecurity they develop this false sense of superiority towards other women to make them feel better about themselves.

It's so bad that some young women get self-aware about it which can culminate in the "I'm not like other girls" brand of teenage girl, which is ultimately another insecurity that seeks to get male attention and throw their fellow woman under the bus.

This type of insecurity can also lead to other forms of preserving the patriarchy, like saying boys don't cry, or transwomen aren't women, and so on.

46 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair, Kjelle is like, borderline misandrist, so she ain't exactly the victim there. I think even her mother gets on her case over that, despite Sully herself being tomboyish too.

If she's misandrist than a guide on how to be more lady-like is probably the last thing she needs.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Deciding to be what? Straight, snobby, feeling the need to live up to societal standards based on your gender? You don't really decide to be any of those, especially the straight part, and the last two are specifically negative traits that come from a sense of insecurity that plagues all of us, but insecurity doesn't excuse a person from being an asshole which is what I'm critiquing these characters for.

And yeah, the game portrays their attitude as bizarre and over the top, but other than Severa, they don't often explore why they are like that other than waving it off as them being coddled as a child.

In our real world, it's incredibly common for young women to absorb a boatload of insecurity from the beauty standards forced upon them, this is true for men as well but to a much lesser extent, and through this upbringing they feel in their young teenage years that they have to be perfect and beautiful looking and lady-like all of the time, and through this insecurity they develop this false sense of superiority towards other women to make them feel better about themselves.

It's so bad that some young women get self-aware about it which can culminate in the "I'm not like other girls" brand of teenage girl, which is ultimately another insecurity that seeks to get male attention and throw their fellow woman under the bus.

This type of insecurity can also lead to other forms of preserving the patriarchy, like saying boys don't cry, or transwomen aren't women, and so on.

That's part of the problem I'm referring to. We start putting all these aspects into classifications. By itself it wouldn't be bad, but the problem is that we also start to put them into a hierarchy, and start pressuring others to either embrace or reject them. Like you say, there's not much freedom as it comes under societal pressure. They're not free to do it because they'd want to nor are they free to not do it because they just don't want to. They're instead made to believe they must. And something that should just be neutral instead comes under derision. In this case, as you say, in being part of being written as "feminine", they're made to be snobbish and forceful upon others. Perhaps precisely as a way to portray the entire thing as being bad. When it shouldn't be.

So like, being lady-like or being a tomboy, to be manly or not, or any mix in-between, it should come down to what the individual wants to be, without being told they shouldn't. The outright bad aspects to be discarded, yes, but anything else that's just neutral at worst shouldn't come under fire by association. Ideally we should just throw away the classifications altogether, but if it proves to be too radical of a step to do right out of the bat, then we can at least begin by just treating them as equally valid. Then we can do the next step.

Quote

If she's misandrist than a guide on how to be more lady-like is probably the last thing she needs.

Indeed, but I think the point of those supports themselves existing is precisely to show those frictions, instead of having every single support just be the characters being all buddy-buddy or able to sidestep problems from the start. Or at least, the idea is that some pairs begin with issues that could be resolved by the end of the support chain, or at least end in a better position than they begin with. Like, say, a case like Matthew and Jaffar in Blazing Blade.

Ideally, the reasoning behind Severa doing it should be more in trying to get Kjelle to see that it's not as bad as she thinks of it to be. And that even if she still doesn't want to partake on it herself, then at the least she should stop treating it with scorn and to those that do. Admittedly, I'm pretty sure it's more complex than that at least. In that, it's part of a larger attitude problem that Kjelle has. Hence why even Sully tries to tell her to cut it out, if I recall from their supports.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Sooks]

3 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What's your least favorite FE archetype?

The womanizer, because they never get any development beyond that one singular trait which makes them so boring. And they’re in like every game.

Sylvain is the one exception. And kind of Inigo.

3 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

I played this not super long ago and I had to Google who that is.

[Sidereal Wraith]

9 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

How are you feeling about the news of 40K getting a series which might make Cavill the Emperor?

The Emperor protects!

[BrightBow]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

The womanizer, because they never get any development beyond that one singular trait which makes them so boring. And they’re in like every game.

Yeah, but you can do fun stuff with them.

Like, the fact that you might accidentally kill Arkis and leave him dead in a ditch without even noticing? Hilarious.
Even if you don't kill him, the amount of humiliation he suffers in that map is just beautiful. While Eugen is stopped from trying to execute him for desertion, he still gets savagely ripped into for the shit he pulled.

Him screwing up a meet cute moment is also impressive. While some initial hostility is part of the trope, insulting a blind girl's eye sight is another level entirely. Needless to say, they don't end up together.

Or in Leon's case, where in his subplot he ends up being strongarmed into doing chores for a grumpy old lady.
And just to highlights what a dipshit he is, his dating advice also ends up backfiring for his best friend, making Adel's romance subplot much more complicated then it needed to be.
It's also noteable that he is the only member of the og Sinon Knights who at no point gets to be the leader for a mission. Maybe it's just a coincidence it ended up that way, but I do find it funny to think that absolutely no one has any faith in his abilities beyond being a convenient muscle.

Then there was also that time where Homer's attempted hitting on Nanna, just for her to chew him out in public for his callous disregard for the battle going on, focusing purely on entertaining his hedonistic impulses while the people outside were fighting for their lives.

Edited December 17, 2022 by BrightBow

[Eltosian Kadath]

I actually finished (and 100%ed)  a game in my backlog a bit ago, Psychonauts 2, the surprise sequel to the brilliant cult classic over 15 years after the original... and I feel like saying a few words about it. The first question that jumps to mind is does it live up to legacy of its predecessor, and I am not entirely sure. Now the original Psychonauts wasn't a perfect game, there were too many tutorial levels, the platforming was a little janky, and the combat was rather bland, but it made up for that with brilliant level design, utterly charming characters, and a comedic cleverness to it. Now Psychonauts 2 improved all of those weakness I pointed out, the tutorial levels are down from 3-4ish down to more like 1-1.5 ish, the platform is a fair bit tighter, and combat improved a fair bit, and yet in the ways Psychonauts 1 excelled, I do not think it reached as tall of heights. In Psychonauts 1 once you reach Lungfishopolis the rest of the levels (Lungfishopolis included) are excellent (sure people can complain about the difficulty spike with the Meat Circus, but it is the final level...), brilliant combinations of level design whose details show us the inner workings of the characters minds, with the Milkman Conspiracy being the best level in the whole series, and while there are some levels of similar quality in the sequel (Compton's Cookout, and PSI King's Sensorium immediately comes to mind), they played things too safe with a lot of their levels, relying on their more competent platforming than the creativity of the original. As for the characters, the campers of Whispering Rock Psychic Summer Camp make for a strong cast, with a lot great little side stories to stumble on around camp, like Maloof's shift from a bullied kid who lets the power Mikhail gives him to overcome his bullies get to his head to the point of mimicking a crime boss by the end, or the love triangle between Nils (who is a lady obsessed little creeper), J.T. (the coyboy kid who is frustrated by his new girlfriend coming between his friendship with Chops), and Elka (who is clearly still in love Nils, and is trying to use the new boyfriend to make him jealous), not to mention...sorrry, I gotta stop, I could keep going really, but I have gotten too far off track already. Psychonauts 2's interns don't hit as solid a mark (with Sam being the best of them, but the whole Boole family is great, with Dogen from the first game being hilarious, and Compton being fairly solid as well), although the addition of the somewhat generic workers in the Motherlobe seems to be trying for something the Persona games kinda do with generics having small stories to them that come out over the course of the game (although the longer length of the Persona games makes that work far better), to add in a bit more of those small stories you can stumble upon, and when the Aquato family arrives they help a little as well in the character department, but I am just not sure its enough to fill the shoes of the 20 campers from the first game. Although I will give Psychonauts 2 props for doing a bit of a trope reversal and effectively bringing a gay character back to life (not exactly, but that is by far the easiest way to explain), to give a gay couple a happy ending, which seems strangely in step with the original's joke about Razputin running away from the circus at the story's start in defiance of that ancient trope.

 

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Words spoken seconds before piracy.

Think they are flying under false flag eh

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What's your least favorite FE archetype?

Perhaps the queer coded bandit twins, not only do the post-Kaga IS not have the Hays Code excuse for it, but a lot of them also have this uncomfortably incestuous feel to them.

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Ah Fate's capture, a classic solution.

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Ike hates Fire Emblem confirmed.

Ike is such an Elitist, only Kaga Saga's for him 😛

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Bat dung is a great swear.

I am more a fan of the classic Dastard...although the alliterative Crusader swears from the Thracia translation are great as well.

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What a powerful staff that Rhys will never be able to use because my team just dodges every attack that's thrown at them effectively making Rhys heal like 2 people per chapter.

The absurd power of double Earth supports makes dodge-tanking even more ridiculous in this game.

 

1 hour ago, Edelguardiansing said:

 

Alright so I was gonna do a joke where I took the actual Ancient Heron Language script and write "Teehee" in it as the sole reply to this image, but after downloading the font I realized that Windows just doesn't let you write in other fonts, you can download as many as you wish but actually using them? Only when writing in a text document and even that will turn to normal one copied and pasted elsewhere, unless of course I'm missing something which could be very possible.

Either way, you have been robbed of a very mediocre joke that I spent 30 minutes on before giving up.

It is a shame we missed out on that little joke. The dumb solution would be to screenshot the Ancient Language TeeHee from the text document, crop it down to just the TeeHee, and embed the image.

 

 4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Second part's redundant. Fire resists Ice but Flying doesn't. That's not the issue, the issue is Rock kills Charizard immediately. Only way Charizar doesn't get Stone Edge'd to death is if you Terastilize into something else.

I think he was referencing the Generation 1 type chart, which is a little different, as Fire does not resist Ice back then, so Charizard is weak to Ice in that generation.

 

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Venusaur is actually the one with the most weaknesses, strictly speaking, but it does get the neat effect of being immune to Toxic. Charizard's typing ensures it doesn't resist moves it's prevos did but it also nullifies it's Ground weakness. Blastoise is pretty standard.

I will note that Vensaur has a great type match versus the Kanto gym leaders (as Charizard and Blastoise both face all of its, and Vensaur only faces two of its), also its weaknesses are ones that can exploit generation 1's "good" AI, with a psychic weakness which convinces a lot of pokemons to use nothing but stat boosting moves (as they see Amnesia, Agility, and Barrier as supper effective, and use nothing but those move), and with how the type priority works, pokemon think poison type moves are super effective, so Erika will for instance use nothing but poison powder (which does nothing because of the poison typing).

 

Also, Happy Birthday @lightcosmo🎉🎂, although I might be a little late with this well wishing.

[Saint Rubenio]

6 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

Words spoken seconds before piracy.

Chapter boss: Nintendo Uncle

6 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

What's your least favorite FE archetype? Mine is the aggressively snobby straight girl with a hyper-fixation on what their male lead society deems "womanly" and has frequent lectures with the other female members of the team on how to be more "womanly" They annoy just as much in FE as they do in real life.

...And they always seem to have pigtails.

The last thing I would've expected out of Quetzal of Radiance I think I said that already didn't I is that we'd find common ground on Hilda hate. And this trope, actually. I generally dislike them as well.

...Okay, actually, Serra I don't dislike as much. Serra is so over-the-top that I cannot take her seriously. And I have to give her credit for being the only good part of my return to Blazing Blade.

Anyway, as for my least favorite FE archetype... long ago I would've said "the edgelord" without a doubt, but I've been growing softer on it since, so... honestly? I think this one, too. This one or the insufferably smug and arrogant "genius" that gets validated by the story and never has to learn to be a decent human being, but that's more of a general trope than a FE trope. I couldn't get into Death Note as much as some other people because in the "Light vs L" conundrum, I hated both's guts and rooted for Light's father lol. Show some goddamned humility, people.

 

Also, as Armagon said, Selena's not actually this trope. She looks like it, I cannot blame you for the confusion, but she's just a very bog-standard tsundere instead. Which isn't that much better, but at least she's just boring as opposed to annoying.

6 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

This however is the worst way to solve that issue.

You know, the funny thing is that Nephenee is the most popular Tellius girl while Calill just... sort of exists.

6 hours ago, Edelguardiansing said:

This is your daily reminder that I would sacrifice each and every one of your for Fates capture in Engage.

3 hours ago, Sooks said:

The womanizer, because they never get any development beyond that one singular trait which makes them so boring. And they’re in like every game.

Sylvain is the one exception. And kind of Inigo.

That one, too.

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

Or in Leon's case, where in his subplot he ends up being strongarmed into doing chores for a grumpy old lady.

Leon's arc was so fucking weird.

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

And just to highlights what a dipshit he is, his dating advice also ends up backfiring for his best friend, making Adel's romance subplot much more complicated then it needed to be.

My favorite part of Adel and Lumiere's romance was how at the end Adel's dumbass still tries Leon's terrible pick-up artistry and Lumiere just has enough and does the flirting herself.

...And then Leon is literally stalking them behind a tree.

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

It's also noteable that he is the only member of the og Sinon Knights who at no point gets to be the leader for a mission. Maybe it's just a coincidence it ended up that way, but I do find it funny to think that absolutely no one has any faith in his abilities beyond being a convenient muscle.

I never even noticed Leon never gets to lead a mission. Guy's lucky he has Deathmatch, nobody would love him otherwise.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Ike is such an Elitist, only Kaga Saga's for him

How ironic would that be? Ike, a FE elitist, is only allowed to exist in games (and parts of games) that are pathetically easy and bland.

[Saint Rubenio]

You know what, I don't believe I need to play Steins;Gate 0 anymore. I've seen all I needed to see.

Seriously who thought this was a good idea, I want to kiss them.

[Codename Shrimp]

Least fav. Trope?

Cult-kun

[Codename Shrimp]

31 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You know what, I don't believe I need to play Steins;Gate 0 anymore. I've seen all I needed to see.

Seriously who thought this was a good idea, I want to kiss them.

 

[Saint Rubenio]

4 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

 

It sounds like he's saying "challenger" not "shaman girl."

Please tell me he's not like that during serious scenes.

[Codename Shrimp]

18 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Please tell me he's not like that during serious scenes.

Ü

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

Ü

Game > anime then, I mean I'd love it but I'd be completely unable to take it seriously

[Codename Shrimp]

 

17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Game > anime then, I mean I'd love it but I'd be completely unable to take it seriously

i didn't say anything tho.

[Saint Rubenio]

3 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

i didn't say anything tho.

Thus I choose to headcanon

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Thus I choose to headcanon

 

[Saint Rubenio]

8 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

 

Well, I'm happy to see that switching to sensible clothes and becoming depressed did not change Okarin's key character trait: Being a massive self-destructive blabbermouth.

[Lightcosmo]

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Second part's redundant. Fire resists Ice but Flying doesn't. That's not the issue, the issue is Rock kills Charizard immediately. Only way Charizar doesn't get Stone Edge'd to death is if you Terastilize into something else.

But let's compare real quick:

• Venusaur: Grass/Poison, weak to Ice, Psychic, Flying, Fire
• Charizard: Fire/Flying, weak to Rock, Water, Electric, weak to Ground but only if you Smack Down (which is Rock anyways).
• Blastoise: Water, weak to Electric, Grass (and Freeze Dry is the one Ice-Type move that is super effective but that's situational).

Venusaur is actually the one with the most weaknesses, strictly speaking, but it does get the neat effect of being immune to Toxic. Charizard's typing ensures it doesn't resist moves it's prevos did but it also nullifies it's Ground weakness. Blastoise is pretty standard.

I was speaking merely from R/B/Y's case where Fire in fact does NOT resist Ice, making Blizzard (which has 30% freeze rate and not 10%) a deadly attack against a mon that's weak to it.

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think he was referencing the Generation 1 type chart, which is a little different, as Fire does not resist Ice back then, so Charizard is weak to Ice in that generation.

This, actually. XD

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Also, Happy Birthday @lightcosmo🎉🎂, although I might be a little late with this well wishing.

Thank you very much!

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well, I'm happy to see that switching to sensible clothes and becoming depressed did not change Okarin's key character trait: Being a massive self-destructive blabbermouth.