Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[FlyingKitsune]

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

In fairness, Kagetsu is like, the best unit in the game period. People have checked, he apparently has some of the best bases and growths in the game, a combination that puts him leagues ahead of everyone else.

I love Kagetsu, but I'm kind of upset by HOW good he is, it's pretty silly. Ivy got lucky getting that guy as a retainer.

[Eltosian Kadath]

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I see the point you're trying to make but you should've picked the image that didn't have shit labeled lol.

Fun fact, despite all the labels, none of the questions I asked are answered by those labels.

 

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'm surprised cause they all look the same. Sure, there is like, wyvern country and whatnot but there's no visual difference. 

Its more than just the Wyvern Country, all the countries have forces they are famous for in those two games, using Binding Blade as an example

Sacae is known for its Nomads, and Myrmidons, plus Shaman to a lesser extent

Bern is known for Wyverns, and Manaketes.

Illia is know for its Pegasi, and to a lesser extent its Cavalry.

Etruria is one of the more difficult to distinguish, but Troubadour line is exclusive to them

Western Ilses are full of basic Fighters.

Lycia is probably the hardest to distinguished, ignoring the player's army they focus on the rather common Cavalry, and Armored Knights, although if you do consider the player's army, their extreme diversity would be the distinguishing feature.

Sure this isn't as well defined as Fates, but generally, you can look at a force and have a good guess for whose army they are.

I could do a very similar sort of list for Genealogy, but with far greater granularity, as there are things like the Bow Knights of Granvale's Duchy of Jungby's Grauren Ritter, or the Paladins of Augustria's Cross Knights, etc.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

Ostia at least is famed for its armor knights.

[Saint Rubenio]

8 hours ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

It’s been over a month now since the game released Rubenio, I think we’ll be okay.

...well, then.

8 hours ago, Sidereal Wraith said:

I didn’t feel like leveling them up.

You used Clanne lol

Oh well.

8 hours ago, BrightBow said:

That's not true at all. Daein troops incorporate a lot more red than they probably should, but the Begnion troops you fight when up against Oliver use a different palette than the black Daein troops you fight everywhere else.
Compare here

and here

Partway through fireemblemwod switches from the standard angle to a fully top-down angle, sadly. But I think you can still see that soldiers, armors, mages and even priests all use different colors.
Some are shared, like swordfighters. The general boss here is black like the Daein ones, but the generic ones you fight in chapter 17 are Red.

Yeah, I genuinely didn't remember, so I was hoping someone would correct me. Thanks.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Hard to say if this was the case.

Game was done since 2021, so who knows when the DLC was made. Could've been ready for the launch date, so they figured they could release it already. Also likely why the wait for Wave 2 took less than a month. It's all ready, they just need to space it out.

In this case I have to agree with Brightbow. The DLC was most definitely already done at launch, considering enough bits of it were found in the base code to piece together the entire DLC content before the first wave was even announced. Heck, there were even voice lines. Voice over tends to be one of the last things done. They just surgically removed it all so they could sell it back to people for half of the game's full price. And that's not even mentioning how the DLC completely breaks the balance of the game, or conveniently solves some odd issues present in vanilla. It all just feels really slimy, and I hate that I'll probably bite the bullet when the campaign is out.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

@Saint Rubenio

 

They've even datamined the final boss theme lol. I clicked on it without thinking, heard three notes and then closed it. I think I'd rather find out for myself later.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

I-

Well there's.......shit, you're onto something.

Believe me, I am as shocked as you are.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

 Quick make a Reddit post about it.

Do I dare?

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think I can explain the issue with Fateslandia worldbuilding with a simple image

Can you tell me where the Ice Tribe is without looking it up, because I can't, and I have played Fates a fair bit. Were was Kohga? What about the homes of the Kitsune, and Wolfpeople? I can only tell you where the Kitsune are because I am about to start the chapter with them next in the linked Ironman. What about the Fire Tribe? I can't even tell you what is actually considered Nohr, and what is actually considered Hoshido. If you showed me for instance

This similar map of Magvel, despite it being one of my least favorite games, I can still point out where the major countries are, because the game actually bothered to point out where they are, and when our armies crossed into these nations. Knowing where these borders are is important in a story/game about war. For instance, not knowing if Fort Dragonfall is a border fort, or an internal defensive installation, has a tangible impact on the story of both Birthright and Conquest.

That is true. They could have been more clear about the map and the armies' movements.

Still, allow me to clarify - I never intended to say that Fates worldbuilding was perfect. I just meant it's not as much worse than other FEs as people tend to insist. Things like the classes, weapons and design themes go a long way. I suppose a better way to put it is, it has different strengths than other FE worlds. It's still worse than Jugdral or Fodlan or Tellius, but I don't think it's so far below the rest.

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Also

,this isn't as exclusive to Fates as you are acting. Sure Fates did this the best, but I think I could recognize the country's armies from Genealogy of the Holy War, and The Binding Blade that way given enough time, as they have distinct classes that they specialize in, and there are minor differences in aesthetics, like differing castle designs, and different general terrain.

Perhaps I should have taken a moment to acknowledge these minor differences. My bad. The reason I didn't is, well... You said it. Shrimpy said it too. They are minor differences. One country has more wyverns, another has more peggies, perhaps one has mostly mages. The differences are there and they are neat, but they aren't nearly as elaborate as in Fates.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

 

Its more than just the Wyvern Country, all the countries have forces they are famous for in those two games, using Binding Blade as an example

Sacae is known for its Nomads, and Myrmidons, plus Shaman to a lesser extent

Bern is known for Wyverns, and Manaketes.

Illia is know for its Pegasi, and to a lesser extent its Cavalry.

Etruria is one of the more difficult to distinguish, but Troubadour line is exclusive to them

Western Ilses are full of basic Fighters.

Lycia is probably the hardest to distinguished, ignoring the player's army they focus on the rather common Cavalry, and Armored Knights, although if you do consider the player's army, their extreme diversity would be the distinguishing feature.

Sure this isn't as well defined as Fates, but generally, you can look at a force and have a good guess for whose army they are.

I could do a very similar sort of list for Genealogy, but with far greater granularity, as there are things like the Bow Knights of Granvale's Duchy of Jungby's Grauren Ritter, or the Paladins of Augustria's Cross Knights, etc.

 

That being said, you make a fair counter-point. I didn't really stop to think this through as much as I did. I maintain that Fates goes a lot harder into it - and well, you admitted as much yourself - but it's true that I downplayed the rest of the games there. You can find things if you look for them, they are just a lot more subtle.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Armchair General]

Well, the good news is that I finally finished that training mission in Brodia. Nearly everyone managed to get a few points in speed,def, skill, and some other stuff that I really didn't catch.

 

Of course, the only people who were left standing was Louis and Alear; but Fogado almost survived with this Radiant Bow that I had lying around. Diamant lasted slightly longer than I expected him, but that was mainly because he was busy breaking people and nearly killing them, this time around.

But I also used some Second Seals to reclass some people since they were maxing out their levels.

Hooray for retrying!

 

 

[Codename Shrimp]

 

Anyway Lyn's paralogue looks like hell on madenning. There're a few  more bow knights in here i think, and are a bit faster as well

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

So allow me to offer a counterpoint: Class Types.

 I agree with this part. Class types is something they should keep moving forward.

However

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Fates' Classes can be very unique when it comes to weapons but the way reclassing works there (and in Awakening) means you can just hop around until you get the perfect skill set.

Fates makes reclassing not that easy to just skill hop. You don't get enough Seals until late game, and not only that, each unit only has 1 class they can reclass into naturally, other reclasses require a bit of work (Marriages/Friendships) and also some levels in said classes. You need to plan and pay quite a lot to get the skills you want.

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

you can just hop around until you get the perfect skill set.

SP aside, anyone can learn any skill in Engage. Late game characters even already come with the SP to create your perfect skill set. And you don't need to spend a few thousand gold reclassing

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Classes lose their uniqueness and this is taken to it's logical conclusion in Three Houses.

Engage has an even more open reclassing system than 3H. What makes it work here however is Class types + limited skill slots + the uniqueness Emblems bring.

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Fates' classes are unique in the weapons front but the classes themselves are extremely interchangeable

Are they? Some classes are yes, but even similar classes have different roles. 

 

Now imagine if we had class types along Fates class variety. You could, for example, have Archer/Sniper as backup, Outlaw/Adventurer as Covert, and Priestess as Mystic. The 3 Bow classes get to be even more unique. Bow Knight and Kinshi get cav/flying respectively. Would differentiate classes even more.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Lightcosmo]

Fates has things like inherit Crit/avo/ddg for classes as well to consider!

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

Fates has things like inherit Crit/avo/ddg for classes as well to consider!

Yeah. Like, one of the reasons Swordmasters and Berserkers are so bad this time around is that they literally have no niche with their inherit bonuses gone. Like sure, they were never the best classes, but you could've some fun with them with their extra avo/crit/etc. Here i see no reason to chose them this time around. Not even for fun/memey reasons

[Sooks]

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They've even datamined the final boss theme lol. I clicked on it without thinking, heard three notes and then closed it. I think I'd rather find out for myself later.

Yeah, I passed that too. I was just happy that there’s (what looks to be) another good generic battle theme.

[Lightcosmo]

16 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Yeah. Like, one of the reasons Swordmasters and Berserkers are so bad this time around is that they literally have no niche with their inherit bonuses gone. Like sure, they were never the best classes, but you could've some fun with them with their extra avo/crit/etc. Here i see no reason to chose them this time around. Not even for fun/memey reasons

I agree. Even not considering balance, it was a way to make classes seperate from one another rather than just "different weapon types", for example.

[Armagon]

7 hours ago, FlyingKitsune said:

I love Kagetsu, but I'm kind of upset by HOW good he is, it's pretty silly. Ivy got lucky getting that guy as a retainer.

It's funny cause I never used him.

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Sure this isn't as well defined as Fates, but generally, you can look at a force and have a good guess for whose army they are

You can and I was thinking last night about how some classes you do get are from characters from that country.

But then you get to Archanea, Magvel, Ylisse and, dare I say, Fodlan. There's really little to no class distinction there. 

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

And that's not even mentioning how the DLC completely breaks the balance of the game, or conveniently solves some odd issues present in vanilla. It all just feels really slimy, and I hate that I'll probably bite the bullet when the campaign is out.

It's possible that the DLC Emblems were put into the game later, as in, after The Funny, and realized the implications of what that meant for the gameplay.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Still, allow me to clarify - I never intended to say that Fates worldbuilding was perfect. I just meant it's not as much worse than other FEs as people tend to insist

Yeah pretty much. The visual distinction is it's greatest strength but on the whole is about the same level as FE's usual world building tier, which is low.

It's also why Engage's world building also doesn't really bother me. People are also saying it's bad but like it's not that different honestly. "Firine is just flower country" and Khaden is just magic country, what's the point?

I think part of the problem is that Fire Emblem worldbuilding as a whole is very tell, not show. Even the better ones, a lot of it is still a character walking up to us and telling us. 

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Fates makes reclassing not that easy to just skill hop. You don't get enough Seals until late game, and not only that, each unit only has 1 class they can reclass into naturally, other reclasses require a bit of work (Marriages/Friendships) and also some levels in said classes. You need to plan and pay quite a lot to get the skills you want.

Oh I'm well aware but like it's still a thing you can do. Especially in Rev, it's a good sandbox.

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

SP aside, anyone can learn any skill in Engage. Late game characters even already come with the SP to create your perfect skill set. And you don't need to spend a few thousand gold reclassing

The Class Skills are still locked however. No matter how much you want it, you cannot put Hobble on your Wyvern Lord.

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Engage has an even more open reclassing system than 3H. What makes it work here however is Class types + limited skill slots + the uniqueness Emblems bring.

The logical conclusion I was talking about is that Three Houses classes not only lack class specific skills (as in skills you can only use in that class, barring shit like Canto) but even weapons. Outside of gauntlets, any class can use any weapon as long as they have the proficiency for it. The actual mage classes get specific spell sets but you can use magic as a General if you so wished, you'll just get the standard spell list.

Engage's Class system is open but still retains uniqueness.

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Bow Knight and Kinshi get cav/flying respectively.

You do know they already have that right? Like I would not have used this example lol.

[Codename Shrimp]

28 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I think part of the problem is that Fire Emblem worldbuilding as a whole is very tell, not show.

I think this is where the current post battle exploration thing we got in Engage can help in the future.

Basically, remove the hubs we've gotten in the last few games, and make the post battle exploration more like your typcial jrpg citites, with NPCs, shops, quests to do in the next mpas (on the same vein as Berwick quests) etc. Would add alot to the world building...

But also have to make sure it won't become a chore, so maybe only once every few maps and/or maps that take place at big cities/locations, with fortress/castle/field maps just being like current Engage exploration, but with more unique dialogues.

31 minutes ago, Armagon said:

ut you can use magic as a General if you so wished

I wish i could XD

Funny enough in Engage i can do that with Magic Emblems, but not in 3H kek

31 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You do know they already have that right? Like I would not have used this example lol.

you know what i mean fam xD

[Armagon]

Guys you've heard of Boucheron. Now get ready for

Bocchiron

4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

think this is where the current post battle exploration thing we got in Engage can help in the future.

Yes. A lot of Fire Emblem locations are just set pieces for battles. But actually being able to explore them afterwards goes a long way i think. Like, Xenoblade worldbuilding is so good because you explore it yourself. Bionis, Mira, Alrest, Aionios, all of them are so good because you get to explore it yourself. Mira and Aionios in particular get bonus points because the sidequest quality does a fantastic job of fleshing out that world you are exploring.

...heh it's funny. Both Fates and Engage are considered to have the worst worldbuilding in the series, yet both have elements that you don't really see in any other games (class distinction in Fates and world exploration in Engage). It's not perfect, there's a lot of work to do, but it's a start.

9 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I wish i could XD

Ok i was mistaken, i confused the fact that everybody had spell lists with everyone being able to use magic in any class.

But the point still stands.

[Armagon]

@Sooks @Saint Rubenio I tricked ya, you've been playing a Xenoblade game all along.

[Codename Shrimp]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

...heh it's funny. Both Fates and Engage are considered to have the worst worldbuilding in the series, yet both have elements that you don't really see in any other games (class distinction in Fates and world exploration in Engage). It's not perfect, there's a lot of work to do, but it's a start.

Fire emblem is a series that has the ingredients for a perfect game, but each ingredient of perfection is in a different game lol

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I tricked ya, you've been playing a Xenoblade game all along.

They were already doing that with Engage tho

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Fire emblem is a series that has the ingredients for a perfect game, but each ingredient of perfection is in a different game lol

I can't believe this is the most accurate description of the series lol.

6 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

They were already doing that with Engage tho

TRUE

[Codename Shrimp]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I can't believe this is the most accurate description of the series lol.

It's honestly something i wanted to write a big ass wall of text about, a reddit essay, and i even have an outline, but i've been too lazy and i'd rather use my free time playing xD

[Saint Rubenio]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

@Sooks @Saint Rubenio I tricked ya, you've been playing a Xenoblade game all along.

Impossible. Osvald doesn't die five minutes after he is introduced.

[Armagon]

....ah. Atelier Marie Remake physical copies are Japan-only. The West only gets the digital versions.

Not an issue for me personally but I know there are people where outside of like indie games, no physical copy can be a dealbreaker.

For what it's worth, Atelier Marie Remake is priced at $50 I believe, as opposed to the usual $60.

[Codename Shrimp]

Speaking about Atelier, i might bite

Don't think i will ever seem them cheaper than this xD

[Acacia Sgt]

Could also just go ahead too, if this is truly the best they will be for quite some time.

[Armagon]

39 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Speaking about Atelier, i might bite

Don't think i will ever seem them cheaper than this xD

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Could also just go ahead too, if this is truly the best they will be for quite some time.

Yeah i don't think i've seen the entire series go on sale like this so might as well swoop in and get what you can.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

Alright then. Pay day is tomorrow, heh.

[Armagon]

Four Swords Adventures is a good game and the single player is balanced......but man, i feel like i'm just doing this game a massive disservice playing it on my own. 

Think i'll shelve for now and hopefully find a way to play with friends.

[Interdimensional Observer]

This Aty talk here reminds me I need to finish AI3, took yesterday off from the game b/c it's quests, quests, quests and needed to change things up. Should almost be done with it though.

The more Aty gets spoken of here, the more the desire to jump into Mana Khemia after this grows. -But I have to put my foot down and say NO! 😆 Getting sidetracked by a trilogy is more than enough, if I stay adrift from Episode III any longer I might as well rename myself "Odysseus".

 

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Four Swords Adventures is a good game and the single player is balanced......but man, i feel like i'm just doing this game a massive disservice playing it on my own. 

Think i'll shelve for now and hopefully find a way to play with friends.

I understand your criticism.

Although, how exactly the emulator going to handle the stuff where you go into houses and caves? Whereas that shows up on the screen in single player, in multiplayer b/c not everyone might be heading into the "small areas" together, that got transferred to the individual GBA screens.