Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Saint Rubenio]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Happened with my in every FE game, so you can't put that on just CQ lol

Yeah fair.

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I remember that one turn in Berwick Saga AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I remember when I spent a whole run having Larentia toss the Angon around, and the very first crit she got from that thing's... what, 9% crit? Was when I fucked up, left her in Almachus's range and got her berserked.

Alvina deserved so much better than that... RNG giveth, RNG taketh away.

[BrightBow]

In Conquest you are always just one single digit crit away from someone getting one-shot. Restarts are rarely the result of actual misplay.

[Codename Shrimp]

Yeah, sure.

Only someone who knows nothing about the game can say that

Edited December 8, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[BrightBow]

14 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Yeah, sure.

Only someone who knows nothing about the game can say that

How many hours do you need to play the game before you are considered someone who knows "something" about the game?

[Shaky Jones]

I get what Guardian is going for, but there ain't much guarding here. Gameplay good. Read a fucking book for story. 

28 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

30 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Happened with my in every FE game, so you can't put that on just CQ lol

Yeah fair

Its not that CQ has BS Rng. Its that it never hurts more to get fucked by rng more than in CQ. I'm not getting tazed randomly during the day by Kaga because he rolled a dice and it landed on 1. I'm getting whacked in the balls by a nailed bat everytime I get ninja'd in an LP thread. Its largely skill based and almost always my own fault for being too slow or late, but there's always that chance Ruben just accidentally posted too early again. Regardless, its fucking painful.

2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

How many hours do you need to play the game before you are considered someone who knows "something" about the game?

You'd be surprised by the amount of 3H fans with 300+ hours who know very little of their own game.

Git gud.

21 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

In Conquest you are always just one single digit crit away from someone getting one-shot. Restarts are rarely the result of actual misplay.

Clearly, you didn't use a bronze axe+4.

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Its not that CQ has BS Rng. Its that it never hurts more to get fucked by rng more than in CQ.

You go on one of your Shaky Tangents after but this is a good point. Conquest is a really tight game and a couple misses or worse, a misclick can spell your doom, which means redoing 40 minutes of game. Oof.

3 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

You'd be surprised by the amount of 3H fans with 300+ hours who know very little of their own game.

Git gud.

They're not like you, who can spend and hour discussing the intricacies of Acheron.

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

How many hours do you need to play the game before you are considered someone who knows "something" about the game?

The game teaches you about support bonuses pretty early, and Rallies about midgame, so dunno what you are saying

And bronze weapons give CritAvo +10.

So yeah, it's on you

1 minute ago, Shaky Jones said:

Gameplay good. Read a fucking book for story

+0.5

Gameplay should always, always always take precedence - anything else is a bonus.

Honesty, even music is more important than writing.

3 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

ts not that CQ has BS Rng. Its that it never hurts more to get fucked by rng more than in CQ. I'm not getting tazed randomly during the day by Kaga because he rolled a dice and it landed on 1. I'm getting whacked in the balls by a nailed bat everytime I get ninja'd in an LP thread. Its largely skill based and almost always my own fault for being too slow or late, but there's always that chance Ruben just accidentally posted too early again. Regardless, its fucking painful.

yeah i can agree with that.

But out of all FEs and FE-likes, CQ offers the best ways to mitigate RNG, and in a puzzle-like/tactical way too, as you have to think when to use/position what etc.

It can be better tho

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They're not like you, who can spend and hour discussing the intricacies of Acheron.

you don't need essays to read "weapon gives CritAvo +10"

[BrightBow]

6 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Clearly, you didn't use a bronze axe+4.

Of course forging is based on randomly distributed resources. So that's not helping.

[Codename Shrimp]

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Of course forging is based on randomly distributed resources. So that's not helping.

you don't need to forge to avoid crits

Edited December 8, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Shaky Jones]

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You go on one of your Shaky Tangents after but this is a good point.

You like my tangents, don't lie.

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They're not like you, who can spend and hour discussing the intricacies of Acheron.

You did it too, so we must both be true 3H fans. Fuck.

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Honesty, even music is more important than writing.

Yes that is something I must give 3H and SoV credit for. I'm happy for the music I repeatedly listen to during car rides.

2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Of course forging is based on randomly distributed resources. So that's not helping.

Bro isn't trading his ores for Arthur's +7 bronzes. Rip bozo.

Not a fan of the forge mechanic, but I rarely have problems with crit except like the ch17 boss and those damn zerkers in iago's chapter. Rally luck is nice, but damn why do it gotta be a hoshidan class skill.

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

and those damn zerkers in iago's chapter.

Yeah i never let these fuckers have an attack because i know they will kill someone, especially in attack stance lmao.

Sometimes i even burn a freeze staff use or 3 there

5 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Rally luck is nice, but damn why do it gotta be a hoshidan class skill.

Izana finally getting some use

 

5 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

ou did it too, so we must both be true 3H fans

checkmate

[Lightcosmo]

38 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Yeah, sure.

Only someone who knows nothing about the game can say that

I think this is more important than many realise.

[BrightBow]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

The game teaches you about support bonuses pretty early, and Rallies about midgame, so dunno what you are saying

And bronze weapons give CritAvo +10.

So yeah, it's on you

The fact that the beginning and the end of strategy here boils down to munchkining your numbers to be ahead of the enemy's numbers so that they melt on contact is kind of my whole problem.
Also +10 crit avoid might have been a lot in Mystery where stats cap out at 20, but it's not a lot here given how much bigger the numbers are. Either way being forced to equip a Bronze weapon whenever there is an enemy with more than 10 skill in attack range (aka, always after a few maps) hardly sounds like fun.

Though while I can't verify it since the battery of my 3DS is busted, I doubt the game is transparent about support bonuses. Those games aren't even transparent about terrain cost. Not even in PoR, where they had soooo much status screen space to work with. And you are telling me the game somewhere has all the arbitrary stat bonuses listed for every single possible class and support level?

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

he fact that the beginning and the end of strategy here boils down to munchkining your numbers to be ahead of the enemy's numbers so that they melt on contact is kind of my whole problem.

It's how you are "munchkining" the numbers

You aren't gonna kill people with a bronze axe, but you can kill with another weapon and then use another actions to switch to bronze axe, or w/e

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Also +10 crit avoid might have been a lot in Mystery where stats cap out at 20, but it's not a lot here given how much bigger the numbers are

Enemy crit with non killer weapons rarely ever go above 10 on most of your units...heck, above 5 is very rare.

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

aka, always after a few maps)

after a few maps you will have

-the luck to compensate

-Rallies

-Bronze weapons

and/or

-Support bonuses

 

Also, Fates stats are not awakening, nor are 20 stat caps a miracle solutions.

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

And you are telling me the game somewhere has all the arbitrary stat bonuses listed for every single possible class and support level?

they aren't that transparent, but you can see the difference on the battle forecast and you see the bonuses during battles

Edited December 8, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Lightcosmo]

Funny thing is: while 776 has 20 stat caps, the CRT rate for units is off the charts (Fergus, Mareeta, etc) lol

[Codename Shrimp]

Low stat caps aren't really a miraculous balance tool or anything....

 

Infact, i will say, the only game with low stats that works is Berwick

[BrightBow]

4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Also, Fates stats are not awakening, nor are 20 stat caps a miracle solutions.

HP stats are lower. Everything else is about the same and power creep is just as insane. Only thing different is that now there are enemies who can lower your HP regardless of defense stats just by looking at you. I prefer FE3's defense ignoring dragon breath over that nonsense, to be honest.

Also didn't say 20 stat caps are a miracle solution. But if you insist, they most certainly help when you have an universal critical hit rate tied to the Skill stat. Since the gap can only widen so much, it prevents a limit on how inert the tools to address enemy crit can become over time.

Of course this wouldn't be so much of a problem if IS wasn't so obsessed with making growth rates always relative to a unit's bases. If you start out with high skill, you also have a higher Skill growth. If you have low luck, you also have a lower luck growth. This ensures that any unit which falls short on Luck needs an ever increasing amount of support just to avoid the dreaded one-shot crit, as existing tools become relatively less potent.
This wasn't always universally the case. Like, Ogma in Book 1 starts out with a tiny 3 Luck rate, which has the potential to cause him some critical hit woes and is his lowest stat by far. But he does have a 40% growth rate. Which by the standards of the game is fairly decent and one of his stronger growths. So while he appreciates some help on that end, his problems never actually become worse, as his luck grows at a very consistent rate.
 

1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

they aren't that transparent, but you can see the difference on the battle forecast and you see the bonuses during battles

Sure, but it's not very useful for strategizing if that information is not available before actually committing to a move.
And I hope you don't expect people to memorize the stat gains of the dozens upon dozens of individual classes.

[BrightBow]

26 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Low stat caps aren't really a miraculous balance tool or anything....

 

Infact, i will say, the only game with low stats that works is Berwick

Above all else, Berwick Saga does not give critical hit chance to every single unit with a skill stat above 1 and doesn't allow everyone to freely double attack just because they have like 900 speed. So a unit doesn't instantly become dead weight simply because they get unlucky with their speed and luck.

[Codename Shrimp]

28 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

HP stats are lower. Everything else is about the same and power creep is just as insane.

https://serenesforest.net/awakening/classes/maximum-stats/
https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/nohrian-classes/maximum-stats/

you are completely and utterly wrong.

And CQ Lunatic doesn't increase enemy stats over hard fyi. Enemies have same stats in both modes. And even hard over normal doesn't increase that much.

28 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

. But if you insist, they most certainly help when you have an universal critical hit rate tied to the Skill stat.

That's only if crit avo doesn't increase on the same level - or even faster

28 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

it prevents a limit on how inert the tools to address enemy crit can become over time.

You get more tools as the game goes on

10 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Berwick Saga does not give critical hit chance to every single unit with a skill stat above 1

Fates crit is [(Skill - 4) / 2]. So you need atleast 6skl for 1 Crt.

Crt Avo is (Luck / 2), so it rises faster than crit.

10 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

So a unit doesn't instantly become dead weight simply because they get unlucky with their speed and luck.

Your ignorance about how Fates works is truly astounding with how sure you are of yourself

Edited December 9, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Lightcosmo]

47 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Of course this wouldn't be so much of a problem if IS wasn't so obsessed with making growth rates always relative to a unit's bases. If you start out with high skill, you also have a higher Skill growth. If you have low luck, you also have a lower luck growth.

This actually isn't 100% true. Mia in RD has low LCK growth yet an 18 base, while Heather with her amazing LCK growth has a 16? or so base. Just a few examples i can think of here.

[BrightBow]

37 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

https://serenesforest.net/awakening/classes/maximum-stats/
https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/nohrian-classes/maximum-stats/

you are completely and utterly wrong.

And CQ Lunatic doesn't increase enemy stats over hard fyi. Enemies have same stats.

Oh come on, comparing max stats between those games is less than worthless. You never realistically hit caps in Awakening. Not even close.

Also I didn't say anything about how difficulty level affects enemy stats. No need to bring up an entirely different topic.

 

37 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Fates crit is [(Skill - 4) / 2]. So you need atleast 6skl for 1 Crt.

Crt Avo is (Luck / 2), so it rises faster than crit.

I appreciate that you are correcting me about a formula that is not stated anywhere in the game and I most certainly happy to finally know about that entirely arbitrary deduction of the base value which prevented me from figuring the exact formula out on my own.

But that's not relevant to the point at all. All this means is that the growth requirement for the important stat thresholds are lower.
 

37 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Your ignorance about how Fates works is truly astounding with how sure you are of yourself

Give me a break. You are gonna tell me now that double attacking works entirely different in Fates or what?

Although either way I wouldn't consider it the sign of a good game when you apparently need hundreds upon hundreds of hours to obtain a mere "basic understanding".

 

15 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

This actually isn't 100% true. Mia in RD has low LCK growth yet an 18 base, while Heather with her amazing LCK growth has a 16? or so base. Just a few examples i can think of here.

Oh yeah, Radiant Dawn has plenty of wacky growths. Sadly they rarely amount to much because you hit your stat caps so hard in that game.

Like, Sothe has a 65% strength growth, an 18 base and a 21 cap. With 19 levels to grow. That stat is quite RNG proof for him, to say the least.

Would be interesting to see how things would play out if there were universal caps independent of class.

Edited December 9, 2023 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

22 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

You are gonna tell me now that double attacking works entirely different in Fates or what?

yes, it actually does.

22 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

You never realistically hit caps in Awakening. Not even close.

I've seen some who do, and the looping system allows them to much easier than Fates. And on average the stats do seem higher than Fates

22 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I appreciate that you are correcting me about a formula that is not stated anywhere in the game and I most certainly happy to finally know about that entirely arbitrary deduction of the base value which prevented me from figuring the exact formula out on my own.

You don't need to know the exact formula to know that Enemy with 10 skill won't have 10 crit, especially since you can see crit directly on the screen.

Like, if you want to complain about transparency, atleast complain about Crit. Avo which you don't see and also game doesn't tell you the formula of, and not about something you see.

You keep complaining about low crits and how enemy crits rise to the sky due to high stats (which is utter bullshit by formulas alone, even a super late game enemy with 30skl will have 13 crit), when anyone who played the game & interacted with the mechanics knows that they are a non-issue.

22 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I wouldn't consider it the sign of a good game when you apparently need hundreds upon hundreds of hours to obtain a mere "basic understanding".

You don't need hundreds of hours to obtain a basic understanding, you just need to be willing to interact with the game - which you are obviously not willing to do.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Acacia Sgt]

Ah, another weekend... well, first, more Clannad...

[BrightBow]

36 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

yes, it actually does.

Gonna take your word for it. Not like the Serenes Fates page has it listed anywhere.
 

36 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I've seen some who do, and the looping system allows them to much easier than Fates. And on average the stats do seem higher than Fates

We are not accounting for random encounters here, I hope. Because of course it's possible to max everything out with a theoretically limitless amount of EXP.
Sucks that the Fates growths page is organized as it is. I'm most certainly not invested enough to add all those personal growths and class growths together to make direct comparisons with the Awakening ones.
But I can most certainly tell that the latest joiners in Awakening fit neatly into the caps of their equivalent classes from Fates. And they join 2 maps before the end of the game, so I doubt they'd grow much. Whatever the difference is, I doubt it's all that significant. Except, again, HP of course.
 

36 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Like, if you want to complain about transparency, atleast complain about Crit. Avo which you don't see and also game doesn't tell you the formula of, and not about something you see.

No need to assume that my issues with Fates are limited to the things I explicitly mention here.
 

36 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

You don't need hundreds of hours to obtain a basic understanding, you just need to be willing to interact with the game - which you are obviously not willing to do.

Of course I am not willing to. Game is 8 years old and my 3DS is busted anyway. If I ever get that thing repaired, it's to play Code Name S.T.E.A.M. again. A turn-based strategy game that does not even have a leveling system, but instead gives you all kinds of fun tools to interact with your environment and your enemies in creative ways instead of stacking like a dozen +2 bonuses on top of each other.
And Fates is about as pleasant as unclogging a toilet with your bare hands at the best of days. It could have the best gameplay ever made and it wouldn't compensate for just how awful of an experience it is.

And I can't tolerate it from a So Bad it's Good angle.
As far as I am concerned, this kind of appeal needs some degree of sincerity. But everything about Fates feels entirely cynical. It's not as bad as it is because it's can't do better. It's as bad as it is because it thinks it doesn't need to do better. And by paying for the game with money, I proved them right. Joke's very much on me there.

Edited December 9, 2023 by BrightBow

[Acacia Sgt]

Huh, Ys Origin got an update?

Ys Origin can now be played with French, German, Italian, and Spanish text!

Wait... it wasn't multi-language yet...?