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Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread


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5 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

I like ShinGoji's design but the face of the franchise being a walking tumor was a bit odd.

Glad i'm not the only one. ShinGoji was too context-specific, felt odd about making it the face of the series.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

So sad. And that's what the Game Awards is, really. Oscars lite for videogames. We see all the same embarrasments, to a lesser degree perhaps, but the patterns are there.

I'll say, the Oscar's voting is at least transparent. Something that can't be said about the Game Awards

tl;dr TGA's jury is private, you can only see the outlets. Many outlets don't have dedicated video game editors and many are not only owned by the same company but a lot of the people who would presumably be voters on the jury (the people who cover the games regardless if they're dedicated or not) work for multiple outlets. Like at least with the Oscars, it's published so you know who exactly is voting and how it works and the jurors are rotated each time so, props for that.

4 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

CQ has close to 0 bullshit (sadly not 0 because Kitsune exists), and the game gives you alot of RNG mitigation tools - more than any other game.

Lunatic late-game maps when you're missing one use of a freeze staff

FPA-eyLXwAM2g4t.jpg:large

3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Honesty, even music is more important than writing.

Video games are the only mediums where music is consistently memorable as a whole but no one's ready for that conversation.

 

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9 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

We are not accounting for random encounters here, I hope

Conquest doesn't have them, anyway.

9 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Of course I am not willing to. Game is 8 years old and my 3DS is busted anyway.

ok, let me correct that:

You were never willing to.

You never, not even once in this thread, talked about any modern non-Remake game without Bad Faith. Bad Faith and ignorance both.

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Lunatic late-game maps when you're missing one use of a freeze staff

Skill issue, should've just not missed 😛

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Video games are the only mediums where music is consistently memorable as a whole but no one's ready for that conversation.

When game music elitists rise i shall rise with them. We #MusicBros will get our time

Edited by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-
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3 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Skill issue, should've just not missed 😛

Missed as in you just don't have it. You used it once a map too early and now the enemy Master Ninja is telling you to stand proud.

 

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7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I getcha here. Civs 5 and 6 come to mind. No I don't want to have to take full Rationalism (though I usually do a two-policy dip). And for Civ6, nooooo I don't chop trees and resources like crazy, and I absolutely refuse to settle cities so close it feels like they're suffocating. Playing with some flavor in mind >>> what's optimal.

-But now you're making me want to do another Civ5 run, which I shouldn't b/c I emerge feeling like I wasted my video game time when I should've been playing RF5 or something else.😆

You'd enjoy Victoria 3 I feel. For how open ended it is there millions of of things you can do or witness depending on how you play.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/117il9b/what_do_people_mean_when_they_praise_engages/j9byhaj/

Just something i saved that could give an insight

Nope. Never, not really.

CQ has close to 0 bullshit (sadly not 0 because Kitsune exists), and the game gives you alot of RNG mitigation tools - more than any other game.

I'm not talking about if the game is fair on a balance level, but on a fundamental level. Think about how in a game of tic tac toe, the majority of games will always end in a draw because once two players understand how the game works the only way you could lose is if you overlooked something, it's fair but not always fun. In Fire Emblem your strategies don't and in fact shouldn't be guaranteed 100% success because if they were that would be boring. 

I don't think Fire Emblem is wrong for having RNG, I think that's why the games are fun, because that's how it keeps you on your toes. The reason why Conquest is stressful is because you can't predict everything by knowing enough about the game and that unpredictability in large part comes from RNG, and that's good, that's how all games work.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

And why is it exhausting? Because it's difficult & challenging

I never said it wasn't. Just that some people only find exhaustion in that kind of challenge without much enjoyment even if they can manage it fine.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Can the player still act after it happens and avoid it with smart decisions?

Look no further then Conquest ch.10, it comes with the mid map twist that completely changes the map, but is never unfair.

Mhm, that's what I said earlier. The strategy is about planning effective fail saves and adapting to unexpected occurrences, how well you react to them is up to you but when and how they happen is RNG, which is the idea.

And while it's true that chapter 10 has it's twist, since it's not RNG you can learn or remember when exactly it happens, making it less of a twist and more of a schedule that you can plan with in mind, something that you mentioned as well. But even this schedule still has the uncertainty whether or not your planned strategy has the RNG on your side. Even one thing not going the way you hoped it would might require you to change strategies which is what makes it interesting.

And just in case it needs to be said, I don't think Conquest is a bad game at all but compared to other Fire Emblem games it's just not my thing. I don't disagree with it's gameplay philosophy, I just disagree that said philosophy is the end all be all of Fire Emblem.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

OK so like, in this topic you know I'm more inclined to be on your side, but I'm still hurting from that one time I had a perfect flawless strategy, and then Felicia missed a 99% and it irremediably led to Beruka's death...

That's an example of RNG having significant effects no matter how sure you were that it wouldn't happen. And I'm stressing that I think that's okay, I'm not saying Conquest is unfair or bad as that is far from my point.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Yet limits and challenges should still be set by the devs or the game will become total snoozefest - like many games out there.

5 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

That's what difficulty options are for. Those who want things open can play on easy or whatever, hardest challenge should ask of the best the player can offer without gimping themselves.

Any game that asks of the play to limit themselves to have fun is a badly designed game. And how to design something is not my job, but the dev's

On some level I agree with you. Any game should have it's own limits and challenges, but where to draw those lines is always going to be tricky since not everyone agrees on a singular concept of difficulty or fun.

But it's hard to say that it is objectively badly designed when they allow players to play as they wish, since millions of Fire Emblem players build entire communities around challenge runs or story-gameplay integration. People have fun with it, not in spite of the game but often in collaboration with it. It need not be your cup of tea.

All of this to say, if you think a game is too easy, there's a significant difference between believing that it is because of a fundamental flaw with the game and so the game is bad because of it, and accepting that it may simply be because it is not your thing.

4 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I get what Guardian is going for, but there ain't much guarding here. Gameplay good. Read a fucking book for story.

There's a narrative Fire Emblem has that can't be achieved through traditional story-telling media like books or films. What I've always appreciated about Fire Emblem is that because each of your units are named soldiers with potential backstories and motivations many people end up connecting and forming little narratives around the characters that they like, even if they have no plot relevance. It's a dramatic change for war games that have often always given you nameless soldiers that are killed and replaced without a second thought.

And for that reason I would argue that gameplay and story aren't mutually exclusive, they have always been there to serve each other in games and especially Fire Emblem. If FE had gone purely the gameplay route from the beginning who knows if it would be as popular or even if would be still alive as it is now. I like the story and gameplay of Fire Emblem both on their own and in how they interact with each other, which is something I would never get from reading a book.

If you believe that they are entirely separate and prefer gameplay over story that's okay, but to believe that and go onto say that it doesn't make sense to focus on story and people shouldn't play Fire Emblem for the story even though half the fanbase does just that... well, it's a bit gatekeepy don't you think?

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39 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

ok, let me correct that:

You were never willing to.

You never, not even once in this thread, talked about any modern non-Remake game without Bad Faith. Bad Faith and ignorance both.

Now that is a claim that is just plain wrong.

I had high hopes for Conquest. For a time I was in disbelief how the company behind Advance Wars could produce such a non-game like Awakening. But you know what came out between Awakening and Fates? Code Name S.T.E.A.M. A proper strategy game with all kinds of fun systems and concepts. Even Lucina is fun to use in that game. Not Robin, though. Neither is Marth, but the fact that you can put Marth in a tank and have him blow shit up is just inherently awesome.
Anyway, that game showed that the expertise to make a good game was very much still in the company. There was no reason Fates could not have been fun. 

Sorry, but my enjoyment with the game were very much the result of it's own merits or lack thereoff. I am not paying good money for a game just to shit on it. As I said, I feel like the joke is very much on me there.
Which is why you don't see me talk much about Three Houses or Engage, because by then I learned my lesson and neither wasted money nor time on them.
But I am not above taking potshots at Colgate-chan or whatever.

Edited by BrightBow
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Pft, did Akio just made a comment/joke equating Ushio being in a mecha cockpit... well, Tomoya thinks that at least, haha.

Hmm... well, some mecha do have their cockpit there. If it's not in the head or higher up in the torso, then... yeah...

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Man, it's so weird. I know, used to the anime and all that. Still curious to see how different the New Year's celebration scene is. Seriously, why Nishina and Sugisaka don't have portraits, if they were also showing up for this in the VN...

---

Oh man, oh man, I finally reached it... I'm not ready...

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2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

You'd enjoy Victoria 3 I feel. For how open ended it is there millions of of things you can do or witness depending on how you play.

I've been meaning to try some of Paradox's stuff, I just haven't bought any of it yet. Not sure which to buy first though.

 

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Video games are the only mediums where music is consistently memorable as a whole but no one's ready for that conversation.

Movies have music? Don't they have like the one song in the middle, the one song in the opening, the one song for the end credits? Outside of children's movies, aren't films supposed to be pretty much devoid of music all the time so that solemnity and clarity can be given to the words and actions of the actors? -Asks someone who doesn't really watch movies.

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2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I've been meaning to try some of Paradox's stuff, I just haven't bought any of it yet. Not sure which to buy first though.

I guess it depends on which time period you'd be more interested to try out first.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Movies have music? Don't they have like the one song in the middle, the one song in the opening, the one song for the end credits? Outside of children's movies, aren't films supposed to be pretty much devoid of music all the time so that solemnity and clarity can be given to the words and actions of the actors? -Asks someone who doesn't really watch movies.

Movies certainly have soundtracks. Sometimes precisely for setting the scene.

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Well... I did it. I watched it. It wasn't... as bad as I thought it'd be. But then again, in VN format it's much... simpler than how the Anime portrayed it, and I already had to go through that one so... I guess it softened the blow. Still... damn...

...

Welp, only one thing left to do...

---

Okay, but seriously, I must say. There is one detail I thought curious...

Spoiler

In the anime, when Tomoya has his vision, if I recall he lets Nagisa pass by while saying nothing, as he's set in the notion of wishing he had never met her. But here in the VN, he does calls out to her, like in the second time the vision happens later on in the Anime. Indeed, it's that scene happening rather than the anime's first one. Yet, Tomoya still got his five-year long breakdown, so... I got nothing. I suppose I'll have to keep going and see for myself then.

 

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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Turns out teddy bears are the real cause of America's decline. When the teddy bear was invented in 1903 and quickly became popular, some people complained. They wrote that the great devotion with which girls would nurture the ursine plushes, would take away from them their desire to care for human infants (which playing with normal human-looking dolls would encourage), thus dooming America to a declining birth rate.

Cultural outrage at utter nonsense, not just a modern thing.😃 -And I had read some months ago of how the coal-fired stove was derided initially, with the cultural critics of the day saying to the effect "family values simply cannot endure without a wood-burning stove".

 

31 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I guess it depends on which time period you'd be more interested to try out first.

The problem therein is I appreciate all time periods, and sci-fi too. It'd depend on the way the wind is blowing on a given day which I'd go for first.😆

16 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Movies certainly have soundtracks. Sometimes precisely for setting the scene.

Again, I write that as someone who almost never watches movies. My holistic appreciative faculties for film are underdeveloped as a non-gamer would possibly say my appreciative faculties for gaming are overdeveloped.😅 Outside of the big moments -IMO (and my opinion should not be taken seriously on this matter)- movies are largely quiet or a few ambient notes. Whereas with video games, even if you don't notice the music, there is pretty much always a full composition in even the most mundane of scenes.

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Cultural outrage at utter nonsense, not just a modern thing.😃 -And I had read some months ago of how the coal-fired stove was derided initially, with the cultural critics of the day saying to the effect "family values simply cannot endure without a wood-burning stove".

It's certainly a tale as old as time.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The problem therein is I appreciate all time periods, and sci-fi too. It'd depend on the way the wind is blowing on a given day which I'd go for first.😆

Hmm, I see.

Maybe which country you'd want to play with, then? The Crusader Kings games also focus more on the actual people instead of just playing as the nation. So if that angle interests you, there's that.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Again, I write that as someone who almost never watches movies. My holistic appreciative faculties for film are underdeveloped as a non-gamer would possibly say my appreciative faculties for gaming are overdeveloped.😅 Outside of the big moments -IMO (and my opinion should not be taken seriously on this matter)- movies are largely quiet or a few ambient notes. Whereas with video games, even if you don't notice the music, there is pretty much always a full composition in even the most mundane of scenes.

I suppose that's true. Movies have music-less moments more often than video games do. Still, there's a reason why the term "interactive movies" exists to describe video games, for better or worse.

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8 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

You did it too, so we must both be true 3H fans. Fuck.

Don't insult me. I'd prefer to call myself an Acheron connoisseur.

8 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Izana finally getting some use

He sees plenty of use from me, what are you talking about? All the cool people use him.

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'll say, the Oscar's voting is at least transparent. Something that can't be said about the Game Awards

We're worse than the Oscars? Hahaha, wow! Someone call William Smith over so he can slap some dude.

4 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Mhm, that's what I said earlier. The strategy is about planning effective fail saves and adapting to unexpected occurrences, how well you react to them is up to you but when and how they happen is RNG, which is the idea.

And while it's true that chapter 10 has it's twist, since it's not RNG you can learn or remember when exactly it happens, making it less of a twist and more of a schedule that you can plan with in mind, something that you mentioned as well. But even this schedule still has the uncertainty whether or not your planned strategy has the RNG on your side. Even one thing not going the way you hoped it would might require you to change strategies which is what makes it interesting.

Ok, I know I'm like a broken record but you keep saying things that make me think "Kaga games." Really feel you'll enjoy them when you get to them.

4 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

There's a narrative Fire Emblem has that can't be achieved through traditional story-telling media like books or films. What I've always appreciated about Fire Emblem is that because each of your units are named soldiers with potential backstories and motivations many people end up connecting and forming little narratives around the characters that they like, even if they have no plot relevance. It's a dramatic change for war games that have often always given you nameless soldiers that are killed and replaced without a second thought.

Lol these are Kaga's exact thoughts  when he made the games. Verbatim, pretty much. Congratulations, you really are a Kaga fan at heart.

4 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

And for that reason I would argue that gameplay and story aren't mutually exclusive, they have always been there to serve each other in games and especially Fire Emblem. If FE had gone purely the gameplay route from the beginning who knows if it would be as popular or even if would be still alive as it is now.

Well... There's Advance Wars.

...yeaaaaah...

4 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

If you believe that they are entirely separate and prefer gameplay over story that's okay, but to believe that and go onto say that it doesn't make sense to focus on story and people shouldn't play Fire Emblem for the story even though half the fanbase does just that... well, it's a bit gatekeepy don't you think?

This is true. I hate to be or seem gatekeepy, I'm just terrified by the idea I may never enjoy another FE again and take it out on Houses fans for encouraging my own "not my thing". Sorry.

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Turns out teddy bears are the real cause of America's decline. When the teddy bear was invented in 1903 and quickly became popular, some people complained. They wrote that the great devotion with which girls would nurture the ursine plushes, would take away from them their desire to care for human infants (which playing with normal human-looking dolls would encourage), thus dooming America to a declining birth rate.

Cultural outrage at utter nonsense, not just a modern thing.😃 -And I had read some months ago of how the coal-fired stove was derided initially, with the cultural critics of the day saying to the effect "family values simply cannot endure without a wood-burning stove".

I can't believe cultural Marxists were behind teddy bears all along.

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The problem therein is I appreciate all time periods, and sci-fi too. It'd depend on the way the wind is blowing on a given day which I'd go for first.😆

I'm not an expert on each game but generally I think a good way of deciding which game to play is by thinking what lens of historiography you'd be most interested in playing.

CK is about playing as a medieval dynasty, focusing on the family members or friends of the family members within that dynasty.

EU4 is about playing as a state, dynasties turning into federalized states and their rise as Empires.

Victoria 3 is about playing as a nation. Not just the state, government, or royal family but the people of the nation, the spirit of the nation so to speak, and how it's history is shaped not by individuals but by material conditions and demographics.

HOI4 is specifically about WWII and similarly also has you play as the nation but with much more focus on the state and warfare.

I don't anything about the others but this is the general gist of the ones I have played, though some far more than others.

49 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Lol these are Kaga's exact thoughts  when he made the games. Verbatim, pretty much. Congratulations, you really are a Kaga fan at heart.

Ironic considering I've only played one of his games so far.

Well I supposed I played Gaiden's remake but that only half counts.

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well... There's Advance Wars.

...yeaaaaah...

Well it did get a recent resurgence which is nice. Kind of funny that Advance Wars was what convinced IS to localize Fire Emblem which ended up surpassing Advance Wars in popularity and sales in the long run.

 

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35 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

Ironic considering I've only played one of his games so far.

Well I supposed I played Gaiden's remake but that only half counts.

Yeah Kaga made his own remake of Gaiden, it's called TearRing Saga

35 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

Well it did get a recent resurgence which is nice. Kind of funny that Advance Wars was what convinced IS to localize Fire Emblem which ended up surpassing Advance Wars in popularity and sales in the long run.

I don't know if you can call it resurgence as much as desperate last-ditch effort to avoid the grave for good. But yeah, Advance Wars is the more gameplay-focused series, and well, look how things ended up. Even as the gameplay dude I have to admit the appeal of having an army of characterized pretties.

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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Let's try this again lmao

8 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Any game should have it's own limits and challenges, but where to draw those lines is always going to be tricky since not everyone agrees on a singular concept of difficulty or fun.

Difficulty options

Quote

 But it's hard to say that it is objectively badly designed when they allow players to play as they wish, 

But in that case it doesn't allow enjoyment for those who want a challenge while using everything.  Why is that not a valid option to play as well?

Quote

if you think a game is too easy, there's a significant difference between believing that it is because of a fundamental flaw with the game and so the game is bad because of it, and accepting that it may simply be because it is not your thing.  

I can say the same thing but replace easy with hard.

Quote

 to believe that and go onto say that it doesn't make sense to focus on story and people shouldn't play Fire Emblem for the story even though half the fanbase does just that... well, it's a bit gatekeepy don't you think? 

If the story focus comes at the expanse of gameplay, then it's hard to argue for favour of stories 
No matter how good a story is, if the gameplay is boring the story can't save it. Many games with supposed good stories i dropped or put on hold thanks to *yawn* gameplay   

Quote

  And for that reason I would argue that gameplay and story aren't mutually exclusive, they have always been there to serve each other in games and especially  

Hard disagree. If anything, the way FE stories are structured (not to mention how mediocre/bad all of them are), makes the gameplay pay for it 90% of the time. Map challenges are much better at creating atmosphere and narrative then whatever is written. 

Let's take a look at 2 games on the opposite end of the spectrum:

Echoes - the game at the beginning keeps praising whatever Alm did, however gameplay wise he didn't do anything praiseworthy thanks to the gameplay being a snoozefest. If anything, the gameplay and narrative work against each other, weakening both of them. 

Engage - early as ch. 4, the game makes you hurry up and tries to throw twists at you, creating an exciting early game challenge that actually makes you feel like you are fighting for something while learning the game at the same time. The challenge creates the atmosphere and narrative, and not whatever the story wanted to tell. 

I can even point out a few other examples: 

FE4 - A game whose gameplay suffers massively for the sake of narrative and gameplay story integration. And at the end the story is nothing to write home about after the midgame twist anyway. 

Fates - lates take a look at the hoshido invasion chapters. The writing is trash, the reason for invading should make whoever wrote this get fired - yet, thanks to the difficulty and the challenge, the atmosphere created makes it really feel like the player controlled army is invading a country that's giving it's all to defend itself.  Trash story, but the challenge itself creates something amazing. 

Challenges, gamplay, fun, atmosphere and difficulty should make the "stories" in games, and not supbar writing at the cost of gameplay. 

And the same applies outside FE as well and i could even point even out a few examples.

8 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Sorry, but my enjoyment with the game were very much the result of it's own merits or lack thereoff.

Which is fair. You don't like it, that's it.  What's bs is writing quite a few inaccurate claims on why it doesn't work. Claims that anyone who played atleast half a run would know are not true.

39 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 He sees plenty of use from me, what are you talking about? All the cool people use him

 One time we should make a Fates draft or whatever lol

Or a reverse draft, where we pick for each other what units the other have to use.

Doesn't have to be Fates either XD

39 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I was about to say, goodness what happened there.

should be fine now

I hope

Edited by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-
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Holy fucking shit.

What a fool I have been. What an absolute fool I've been.

I just did a quick Engage test on Ryujinx instead of Yuzu. Just on a whim. Ryujinx is slower, which is the reason I used Yuzu in my previous run, so I compromised and lowered a bunch of graphical settings.

...The loading times. They're SO MUCH BETTER. It's insane. Somniel loads in 10 seconds. It truly never was the game's fault. It was all fucking Yuzu. Yuzu ruined the game for me on my second run.

(Well it was that and my pride. "Waah I wanna beat the game on maddening without DLC for bragging rights waah")

I'm actually so upset right now. After all the championing I did against the loading times. Wow.

If any of you intend on emulating Engage (@Shrimpy -Limited Edition-), learn from my example - do NOT use Yuzu. Holy shit I had heard tales of how bad Yuzu was but I can't believe just how horrible it really is.

7 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

One time we should make a Fates draft or whatever lol

Or a reverse draft, where we pick for each other what units the other have to use.

Doesn't have to be Fates either XD

I don't know. I have a feeling you'd make me use generic anime teens.

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4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

.The loading times. They're SO MUCH BETTER. It's insane. Somniel loads in 10 seconds. It truly never was the game's fault. It was all fucking Yuzu. Yuzu ruined the game for me on my second run.

I was right

Once again 😛

/jk

Have fun 😄

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well it was that and my pride. "Waah I wanna beat the game on maddening without DLC for bragging rights waah"

Now you can do it Or you can just play whoever you want and have fun?

 

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I'm actually so upset right now. After all the championing I did against the loading times. Wow.

I kept telling you it's an emulator thing and you didn't believe me xD

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

learn from my example - do NOT use Yuzu. Holy shit I had heard tales of how bad Yuzu was but I can't believe just how horrible it really is.

yeah, that i read. Ryujinx is generally seen more favorably, people also like it's team more or something

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't know. I have a feeling you'd make me use generic anime teens.

You'd make me use old men

Well, it will be a while anyway because i still have to finish linked ironman. Also there's an Engage PMU i wanna start - people already picked my units - but i wanna try emulating first before starting it

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29 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

But in that case it doesn't allow enjoyment for those who want a challenge while using everything.  Why is that not a valid option to play as well?

Hey, its my argument about CS gameplay that put everyone in a tissy! Lmao

Obviously I agree with this. 

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